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General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Bob Smalser on February 05, 2011, 08:31:40 PM

Title: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bob Smalser on February 05, 2011, 08:31:40 PM
The references state that these are unique to rifles from Old Northampton County surrounding Allentown, and are found on Newhard, Kuntz, Moll, Rupp and George rifles, among others of the same style of riflemaking.

(https://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/23549184/394983562.jpg)

Published explanations for the decoration vary.  One description explains them as a depiction of the “Sons of Liberty” head.  Another believes they are guardian angels.  A third description is of a woman’s face, and perhaps the strongest is of Lenni Lenape Chief Tammany (Tamend), a friend to settlers who negotiated William Penn’s 1683 treaty.  Compare the headdresses in the painting below to the rifle above.

(https://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/23549184/394983561.jpg)

My research into the lives of the people involved leads me in a different direction. The continuing thread that united early Pennsylvania settlers of mixed ethnicity, background and faith across two generations and more was the fear of Indian attack.  Peter Silver below wrote an entire 400-page book on the unifying nature of this fear, and he makes a good point.  Between 1755 and 1783, each and every Moll, Newhard and Kuntz gunsmith as well as those at Christian Springs either had a relative killed by Indians, participated in the burial parties recovering the remains of Indian victims, was a member of a local defense force or later the organized militia, or was a close friend or relation of someone who was.  And like all strong human emotions, those feelings later extended to children, grandchildren, and beyond.

In November-December 1755 the Delaware didn’t just massacre the 12 Moravian missionaries at Gnadenhutten (Lehighton) many are familiar with, they raided and burned throughout the northern area of Old Northampton County, killing dozens of noncombatants, including Newhard and Kuntz family members who would later become in-laws to the Molls.  One farm a war party bypassed to attack the weaker farm adjacent to it was a Newhard farm, and the dead there were their in-laws.

(https://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/23549184/393874009.jpg)

After a similar incident in 1763 along a 10-mile swath through Whitehall and Allen Townships, Joseph Mickley below wrote his well-footnoted account from archives and live interviews with survivors in 1819.  Twenty three settlers had been murdered and mutilated, 13 of them young children.  This narrative is particularly poignant…and particularly gruesome.  And these Lenni Lenape weren’t part of any organized rebellion occurring farther west….these were friendly, local Indians who routinely traded in Bethlehem, avenging an isolated robbery and murder.

The largest incident in eastern Pennsylvania was in the Wyoming Valley in 1778.  William Nester below reports 302 scalps were taken and over a thousand homes burned by Seneca Indians led by British officers.  This was followed a few months later by the Cherry Valley massacre across the border in New York, with 44 killed and 45 captured.

Nor do these well-documented incidents include all the random incidents of murder, robbery and mutilation.  One doesn’t have to probe very far in Lehigh and Wyoming Valley genealogies of the period to find “killed by Indians” here and there.

Justification or lack of it notwithstanding, the impact of the terror of these attacks, especially the random ones, was undoubtedly profound and far-reaching.  Instead of (or in addition to, depending on the user’s mood) a whimsical depiction of Chief Tammany, in the context of time and place I’m more inclined to believe the message was, “this rifle is capable of a clean head shot.”  My evidence? 

  a)  The first two family members I had enlist to fight in the Revolutionary War were frontiersmen who enlisted in the regulars to fight Indians, not for any urban notions of liberty, taxation or representation.  One’s family had been made refugees by the Indian attacks of 1755, and the farm they had spent 20 years building was turned into “wastelands”.  The other’s 69-year-old father-in-law had been “murdered, stripped and scalped” the year before.  Both enlisted in rifle battalions led by experienced and well-known Indian fighters.

b)  The double Indian head above in Ronald Gabel’s photograph is on a double-barreled rifle.  Probably one of the Kuntz’s, who had lost family members to Indian attacks.

Further Reading:

https://www.home.earthlink.net/~pagca/page35.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamanend

Gabel, Ronald G., Thoughts on The Northampton School of Pennsylvania Gunmaking, Gabelguns.com, 34p.

Mickley, Joseph J., Ancestry.com. Brief account of murders by the Indians, and the cause thereof, in Northampton County, Penn'a., October 8th, 1763 [database on-line]. Provo, UT: The Generations Network, Inc., 2005.  Also available free on-line via Google Books.
 
Nester, William R., The Frontier War for American Independence, Stackpole Books, Mechanicsburg PA, 2004, 423pp.

Silver, Peter Rhoads, Our Savage Neighbors, WW Norton and Company, New York, 2008.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Kermit on February 05, 2011, 09:45:08 PM
Excellent read, Bob. Thank you. Care to weigh in on why some of them seem to be obviously--at least to viewers in our millenium--female? Some seem to be women with visible/bare breasts. Descriptions often say these images are women. Puzzled.

Do you have documentation for the "head shot" notion? Really curious about this. It's an element of decoration that has long intrigued me.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on February 05, 2011, 11:13:38 PM
There was an article in a KRA Bulletin (1990)--reprinted in the brown Selected Articles book--about these images.The most difficult question, it seems to me, is why they would appear only in Northampton/Lehigh county rifles? After all, quarrels with Indians and hatred towards Indians, esp. after 1763, were widespread in Pennsylvania. Why wouldn't they appear on Lancaster rifles, too? Or rifles from Virginia, for that matter? It makes you wonder if there is something particular to the region that gave rise to this particular symbol. Or, it might just be that local gunsmiths copied something they liked from nearby gunsmiths but the practice didn't spread far.

I don't know enough about what's known about which gunsmiths made the rifles with these images--in particular, whether any Moravian-made rifles contain these images. If so, that would be evidence against the "head shot" notion. Moravian settlements suffered from Indian attacks, but it is extremely unlikely Moravian makers would have included any symbol on their rifles that gloried in or advocated the killing of Indians.

Scott

Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bob Smalser on February 05, 2011, 11:38:40 PM
... Care to weigh in on why some of them seem to be obviously--at least to viewers in our millennium--female? Some seem to be women with visible/bare breasts. Descriptions often say these images are women.

To a hirsute Swabian or Frank, the hairless nature of Native Americans may have had feminine connotations.  The headdresses of the image and the painting are a bit close for coincidence.

And regarding my crude analysis of head shots, perhaps the message was more subtle that I'm portraying...the intent being the user could read into the image what he wished to. 

I'm also intrigued why these decorations are confined to Lehigh rifles.  I don't believe any Moravian smiths used them.  Why they weren’t common in Lancaster can be explained in terms of distance from the more warlike tribes, but not Virginia or the Ohio Valley. 

I'd like to hear the opinions of some folk-art and Pennsylvania-Dutch symbol specialists...but in the context of time and place.  Peter Silver has an excellent thesis in fear being a powerful unifying factor, but his presentation is too flawed to recommend.  He demonstrates little understanding of fear and human reactions to it, and the book is a difficult read.

Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on February 06, 2011, 12:18:22 AM
Are most of the rifles on which these appear dated to the 1770s? I realize such datings are conjectural. But certainly in the 1750s and 1760s, Lancaster considered itself on the frontier. In November 1755, as the frontier collapsed after Braddock's defeat, the Pennsylvania Gazette reported (erroneously), that “1500 French and Indians had burnt Lancaster Town to the Ground.” (Sorry for the original spelling!)

They strike me as Indians, too, not "sons of liberty"--although I've heard very knowledgeable folks suggest that these figures appeared on Lehigh Valley rifles because, from fall 1777-summer 1778, the Liberty Bell was hidden in Allentown. That would require all the rifles with this image to have been made after 1777/78 (or the image could have been added to earlier rifles, I guess).

Scott
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Tom Currie on February 06, 2011, 12:25:18 AM
I too struggle with the idea that a female indian is on the rifle because that's what the rifle's intended target is. And not sure how the images you present on the double barrelled rifle could be anything but female.  

I have a hard time thinking how the smiths of the day would put what they preceived as an evil figure on a carefully made rifle. Doesn't make sense to me.

Given the fact that the first " Indian head " I know of is the Antes double gun, maybe his interactions with the Moravians and their interaction with friendly indians inspired this decorative figure. Maybe the lehigh smiths mentioned above followed suit applying this to there rifles also a generation later.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: smylee grouch on February 06, 2011, 12:38:25 AM
Thanks for the post Bob, this is a great subject to explore. I confess to not being able too add much to the discussion except enthusiam.  Gary
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bill of the 45th on February 06, 2011, 12:40:09 AM
Just my thoughts, for what little they're worth.  First it is a stylized figure, and as Bob has mentioned about the observations of the time of the natives lacking hair, I see the stylized head dress, with a bare chested Brave/chief.  The so  called breasts could just be depicting the bare chest or tattoos, or war paint or other decoration on the chest.  We are talking about a decoration, either carved or engraved that is roughly the size of todays postage stamp, and has limitations in its life likeness.

Bill
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bob Smalser on February 06, 2011, 01:02:07 AM
This scan from Ron Gabel isn't very clear, but you can see variance in the level of femininity portrayed.

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpic20.picturetrail.com%2FVOL12%2F1104763%2F23549184%2F395000847.jpg&hash=b3f59181720ea6f4b47d77302077b86466dd25b5)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bob Smalser on February 06, 2011, 01:21:46 AM
Are most of the rifles on which these appear dated to the 1770s? I realize such datings are conjectural. But certainly in the 1750s and 1760s, Lancaster considered itself on the frontier. In November 1755, as the frontier collapsed after Braddock's defeat, the Pennsylvania Gazette reported (erroneously), that “1500 French and Indians had burnt Lancaster Town to the Ground.” (Sorry for the original spelling!)


The larger regional native force most hostile to settlers was the Iroquois Confederacy in western NY State.  They were often the group who pushed Iroquois-speaking Seneca and Algonquin-speaking Delaware to attack settlers.

By the time of Pontiac's Rebellion in the mid-1760's, the only tribes left around Lancaster were the remnants of Iroquois-speaking but Christian Conestogas, and the massacres there were often by settlers against natives.  See the Paxton Boys piece below.  There was more to the Paxton Rangers than the criminal element, but that's a story I'm still researching.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paxton_Boys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conestoga_(people)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on February 06, 2011, 01:34:09 AM
After Braddock's defeat in July 1755, the frontier collapsed and towns up and down the Susquehanna--and east of the Susquehanna--were regularly attacked by small parties of Indians. Lancaster expected to be attacked throughout the last months of 1755. The Paxton Boys incident (which involves whites slaughtering Indians) demonstrates, of course, that there was plenty of Indian hating in towns along the Susquehanna in the 1760s. It's certainly the case that no large Indian populations were living near Lancaster. But Lancaster and towns very close to it regularly experienced Indian warfare during the 1750s and 1760s.

So my only point was that, if these Indian heads were linked to Indian hatred, the puzzling question is why they aren't on rifles produced in Lancaster or Virginia as well as in the Lehigh Valley. (Part of the answer might be the date when these Indian heads start to show up--but even that is a puzzle. Why don't they appear until the 1770s? What makes them appear then?)

The best account of the Paxton Boys incidents is now: Kevin Kenny, Peaceable Kingdom Lost: The Paxton Boys and the Destruction of William Penn's Holy Experiment (Oxford UP, 2009).

I've included a lot about the anxieties in Lancaster about Indian attacks in 1755-56 in my: "Martial Art: Benjamin West’s Death of Socrates, Colonial Politics, and the Puzzles of Patronage,” William and Mary Quarterly 65, 1 (2008): 65-100. The article focuses on the gunsmith William Henry, who commissioned West's painting. I'd be happy to send a copy to anybody who contacts me off-list (the journal doesn't make a free copy available online).

 

Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bob Smalser on February 06, 2011, 03:02:09 AM
...So my only point was that, if these Indian heads were linked to Indian hatred, the puzzling question is why they aren't on rifles produced in Lancaster or Virginia as well as in the Lehigh Valley

....Kevin Kenny, Peaceable Kingdom Lost: The Paxton Boys and the Destruction of William Penn's Holy Experiment (Oxford UP, 2009).

I agree.  I passed Kevin Kenny by initially but just ordered it based on your comment.  

I'm working on Matthew Smith, who commanded my cousin's company in Thompson's Rifle Battalion.  Smith had been a sergeant in the original Paxton Rangers, was a spokesman of sorts during the Paxton Boy's Massacre, yet later became Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania.  All references except Oscar Stroh manage to miss one piece or the other of this interesting man's life.  Murderer, hero, both?  Or were they different people?

Also interesting as a side note is that my 16-year-old cousin Philip Newhard (1759-1827) had enough english to get by in 1775 in a largely Scots-Irish unit composed of men from Harris Ferry, Donegal and Paxton. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Smith_(Pennsylvania_statesman)

Stroh, Oscar H., Thompson’s Battalion and/or The First Continental Regiment, Graphic Services, Harrisburg, PA Sep 1975.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on February 06, 2011, 03:18:33 AM
Kenny mentions that Matthew Smith became a patriot during the Revolution--but doesn't mention that he's the same Matthew Smith who commanded a company in Thompson's Rifle Battalion. But John Joseph Henry was also in Smith's company, and the annotations to the 1877 edition of JJH's memoir note that Smith "took a warm interest in the affair at Conestoga and Lancaster in 1763-4, and was delegated by the Paxtang Boys to make a proper representation to the provincial assembly who were bent on persecuting that band of heroes" (p. 105). ("Band of heroes"--interesting.) See the GoogleBooks edition here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=h8xEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=john+joseph+henry+account+of+arnold%27s+campaign&hl=en&ei=oehNTeHNNcaAlAeEtrHvDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

I'll need to find a copy of Stroh. Hadn't come across that reference before.

Scott
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bob Smalser on February 06, 2011, 03:29:34 AM
Kenny mentions that Matthew Smith became a patriot during the Revolution--but doesn't mention that he's the same Matthew Smith who commanded a company in Thompson's Rifle Battalion. But John Joseph Henry was also in Smith's company, and the annotations to the 1877 edition of JJH's memoir note that Smith "took a warm interest in the affair at Conestoga and Lancaster in 1763-4, and was delegated by the Paxtang Boys to make a proper representation to the provincial assembly who were bent on persecuting that band of heroes" (p. 105). ("Band of heroes"--interesting.)

Same fella. 

But The Paxton Rangers had a longer history than the Conestoga and Lancaster  incidents of 1763, and Stroh wrote a pamphlet on them that I've only recently found a copy of.  I suspect they were one of the ranging companies of frontiersmen volunteers protecting settlements earlier in the French and Indian War.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Majorjoel on February 06, 2011, 03:38:27 AM
 (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi445.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq171%2Fjoelhall452%2Fscan0001.jpg&hash=437c651341435d8e638293a425fd793bcd1190d9)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on February 06, 2011, 03:45:37 AM
I suspect they were one of the ranging companies of frontiersmen volunteers protecting settlements earlier in the French and Indian War.

This is why you'll like the Kenny. If I remember rightly, he sets the Dec. 1763 Paxton Boys raids at Conestoga and then Lancaster is a larger context of "vigilante" activity before and after.

Unfortunately, Kenny doesn't make use of Lancaster's Moravian congregational diary. But Lancaster's minister recorded the event. It's the only "eyewitness" account recorded on the day of the event (or the day after) that exists, and it's never been published. William Henry, Jr., apparently saw what happened, but his account was told to John Heckewelder over fifty years later.

Here's the entry from the relevant day from the congregational diary:

Tuesday 27th [December 1763]
Between 2 and 3 o’clock in the afternoon 20 or more men came, all on horseback, riding up the open street to the courthouse, turned their horses around from time to time, went then to the prison and forced the door where the Manour Land Indians were and murdered all of them, there were 14 of them. They got back on their horse, they rode around the courthouse, shot their guns, yelling and making a terrible noise and rode then, as we heard, to Philadelphia, in order to kill the Indians there on Province Island.  We thought much of our dear hearts and we commended them to the dear Lord. Many Brethren visited us, they were very perplexed.

The diary also records the burial of the slaughtered Indians; I don't think that information survived anywhere except in these Moravian records.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Kermit on February 06, 2011, 05:10:36 AM
Still interesting discussion. A lot of conjecture here. I'm awaiting a primary source. Anyone got one? :-\
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on February 06, 2011, 03:22:17 PM
No written primary source--i.e., an eighteenth-century source--has yet been found that mentions these "indian" images on rifles, let alone one that explains them. Speculation, conjecture, interpretation, and debate are the only options.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bob Smalser on February 06, 2011, 05:23:59 PM
Primary sources?

They all died almost 200 years ago.  And would probably be amused at these discussions, because like their "hex signs" and the like, creating some mystery may have been their intent.

Like the art on their Baptismal certificates, their images were probably styled not to reflect reality, but how the subject would appear in heaven.  Cleaner colors, simpler lines, pleasant ambiance.  Indians as they'd like them to be, not as they were.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: eastwind on February 06, 2011, 05:37:01 PM
Apparently the  so-called Indian Head symbol was not exclusive to Lehigh/Allentown area gunsmiths.

Indian symbols very similar to those to found on Lehigh County guns have been found on Berks County guns made by Stophil Long, Jacob George and the Angstadt family makers of the Kutztown area. Indeed, one of the guns in my Berks County Long Rifles Exhibit in Reading last year, signed by Peter Angstadt, c1800 had the symbol incised just forward of the trigger guard. I was unable to show that symbol on that particular gun in my book, but do have a photo of it should anyone want to see it.

The symbol on Berks County guns seems to be endemic to the northern townships of Berks County and has not been found on guns made south of Reading or in the City of Reading.

 Patrick Hornberger
BERKS COUNTY LONG RIFLES & GUNMAKERS
2009, Berks County Historical Society
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Tom Currie on February 06, 2011, 06:14:05 PM
Capjoel's post with paragarph and picture makes perfect sense to me, bare breast and all. If Europeans used this symbol to represent young America I can see that being adopted by colonials also. The eagle later became our national symbol but the french hung on the "liberty " symbol of America for quite a while and sent over a statue as proof.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Dphariss on February 06, 2011, 07:00:10 PM
While I understand the curiosity  and have wondered myself and realize that there are several  thought provoking theories here, I simply see it as a decorative feature.
Given the likelyhood of  finding some explanation from the time, by someone who was engaged in putting them on rifles, wondering what mystical meaning they might have is relatively pointless.  Its impossible to get inside Antes' head for example to find out why he carved the figures on the swivel breech.
Its entirely possible that we are "reading" far too much into it.

While there is symbolism in many inlays etc on kentucky rifles figuring out exactly what they really meant? The square and compass is pretty easy to figure, some Christian symbols maybe, but the rest?

The double rifle may have a carved and silver figure because when the rifle was done the person that ordered it had wanted one in silver rather than carved?? So the smith put on a silver one. We will never know.
Dan
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Tom Currie on February 06, 2011, 07:30:47 PM
Dan, For those interested in discussing this topic the discussion is not " relativley pointless". For those not interested I imagine would be.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on February 06, 2011, 10:43:11 PM
I agree with Dan that we may "never know" the significance of these "indian" heads (if that's what they are). But saying that is quite different than saying there is no significance to them at all (that they are "simply" decorative). They are decorative, of course, but the question folks have been discussing is why gunsmiths in a relatively localized area, the Allentown-Kutztown corridor, and at a very particular time (late 18century) began to decorate the rifles they made with these figures. If the figures were more common, perhaps we could say they were "simply" decorative: i.e., riflemakers added them to their rifles without thinking much about them. But the fact that they appear only on rifles made in a particular location makes it difficult to think of them as not having some significance. The significance may not be political (i.e., standing for liberty or for indian hatred), but they must have some significance--even if we cannot (right now) understand it.

I'm very interested, as Tom was, with the image posted by Captjoel. That image was from a Connecticut regimental flag, I think, from the early 1780s. I wonder if much is known about regimental designs from eastern PA companies?

Understanding historical mysteries like this can take time. It may be that, sooner or later, somebody will come across an image from a contemporary engraving, or a regimental flag, or sketched in a letter, that will resemble these carved images so closely that it will be immediately apparent what they must have meant to the eighteenth-century gunsmiths who carved them. Until then, we can only speculate.

Scott
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Dphariss on February 06, 2011, 11:30:24 PM
Dan, For those interested in discussing this topic the discussion is not " relativley pointless". For those not interested I imagine would be.

Poor choice of words.
I believe its impossible to determine at this date "why" it was used or even what it represents by discussion. If it looks like a native then its a native. If it looks like a woman maybe its a woman.
I would LOVE to know what it means or what it represents.
Maybe its a gnome. Similar figures date to the 17th century according to

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/gardening--a-love-that-dare-not-speak-its-gnome-garden-ornaments-2-kitsch-digging-for-apples-fishing-in-a-brook-or-sitting-in-selfimportant-rows-the-little-people-are-publicly-derided-but-privately-adored-helen-chappell-on-a-british-obsession-1500384.html

They were popular in Germany it seems. It appears that the figure could be some whimsical figure that came over from Germany with one of the gun makers and he put it on a gun as some whimsical spiritual guardian. Does it appear anywhere other than rifles?

Saying that they put it on because they hated natives or that certain features are breasts (people who could draw as well as some of these guys could could draw  breast I suspect) or that it was to tell people to make head shots is simply speculation even wild speculation. Does a Griffin like creature on a rifle mean its for shooting Griffins or is it just something artistic or was it specified by the person commissioning the rifle since it was on a coat of arms. Its not possible determine with any degree of certainty.

Speculation can be interesting and a lot of fun and there might even be a "consensus" but it will still be a guess. Since its not mentioned by the rifle makers or owners of the time anywhere that anyone here knows of, unless I missed something, its all speculation.
For this reason trying to pin down some specific meaning for it or even what it actually represents is impossible since there is no way of finding out.
Now if someone takes the trouble to read everything written in 18th and 19th century PA and comes up with some mention that is a smoking gun then so be it. But I doubt such a mention exists.
The value in discussions such as this is that it gets people thinking and looking. Who knows maybe someone WILL FIND an explanation?
Until then its a whimsical decorative feature on some longrifles.

Dan
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: nord on February 06, 2011, 11:38:59 PM
Have a look at the patchbox on the Schroyer exhibited in the library. Jim Whisker opines Tammany.  I opine an indian but can't say with certainty who or which is represented.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on February 06, 2011, 11:42:25 PM
Its not possible determine with any degree of certainty. Speculation can be interesting and a lot of fun and there might even be a "consensus" but it will still be a guess.

I generally agree with this. But circumstantial evidence can be convincing (on here or in a court of law) even if there is no "smoking gun" (an 18c gunmaker explaining it in a letter).

After all, this list seems very comfortable discussing attributions of rifles to particular makers when the gun is not signed. Each of those attributions is made based on circumstantial evidence, not a "smoking gun" (a signature).

Scott
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: smylee grouch on February 06, 2011, 11:43:24 PM
I think the study of this ornament ties in  with the mission statment of this forum.   It would be fun and educatioinal if some one does find more documentation on it.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Leatherbelly on February 07, 2011, 03:42:30 AM
Perhaps it isn't an Indian at all!
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on February 07, 2011, 07:08:35 PM
This from the PA Gazette:

November 25, 1772
The Pennsylvania Gazette
FOUR DOLLARS Reward.
LOST, or taken out of a waggon loaded with hops, betwixt the river Sasquehanna and Philadelphia, upon the 5th, 6th, or 7th day of this present month November, a strong board CASE, without mark or direction, inclosing a very neat new FOWLING PIECE, 4 feet 2 inches in the barrel, 5 feet 5 inches the whole length of the gun, with a curled walnut stock, sliding loops, mounted with brass, the foresight and thumbpiece silver, the makername John Newcomer, engraven upon the hind part of the barrel, near the figure of a manhead, and J. Newcomer engraven on the lock. Whoever has found the same, is desired to deliver it to Joseph Vandegrist, at the sign of the Cross keys, in Chestnut street, Philadelphia; to Caleb Way, at the sign of the Waggon, on the Philadelphia road; to Matthias Slough, at the sign of the Swan, in Lancaster; or to James Wright, in Hempfield, near Susquehanna, and they shall receive FOUR DOLLARS reward. JAMES WRIGHT.

Note the remark "Near the figure of a manhead." Could that be a reference to our "indian head" decoration?

A search of the rest of the Pennsylvania Gazette finds about 20 uses of the term--nearly all referring to engravings or etchings on watches (from the 1760s to the 1780s). Would be interesting to look through books that study decorations on 18c watches to see if this symbol appears on any.

Scott
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bob Pearl on February 08, 2011, 04:39:16 PM
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi125.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp74%2Fpearlantiques%2FCherokee.jpg&hash=8b6e15a5b38d83a8f83100f309b8b787f63ed3c4)
1740-50 J. Bashire, London; Cherokee Nation

I thought this might be a good illustration. Notice how the dress is more to the taste of the artist and how the feminine quality to the faces make these "Savages" look less fearsome. The Moravians had a close relationship with the Cherokees. This steel engraving is in the collection at MESDA and included in the book, The Regional Arts of the Early South.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Jay Close on February 08, 2011, 05:47:59 PM
I have a vague recollection that John Bivins wrote an article decades ago (perhaps in Muzzle Blasts?) speculating that the figure was not an American Indian but an oriental figure. I recall he illustrated several possible design sources from popular prints or ceramics all in keeping with the European fascination with the Far East that was current in the mid-18th c. 

There is also a period quotation that Gary Brumfield would probably have to hand about a gathering of rifle companies during the Revolution. That quotation implied that the home region of those companies could be read in the styles of their rifles.....18th c. "colors", if you will.  The head (Indian or not) may have evolved into an expected regional motif that customers demanded as a badge of affiliation. It's origin may be secondary to its regionalism.  That is, the issue of why it originated may be a different one from why it persisted.

Just stirring the pot.

-- Jay
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Robby on February 08, 2011, 08:09:37 PM
Seems everyone that likes these rifles has a different idea on the meaning of this enigmatic figure. The best one I heard is that it is a symbol of defiance, in referenced to the English calling us "$*@~*$" to the French. I got a big kick out of it, and who really knows. Maybe my source for this will weigh in.
Robby
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bob Smalser on February 14, 2011, 05:40:02 AM


I suspect they were one of the ranging companies of frontiersmen volunteers protecting settlements earlier in the French and Indian War.


This is why you'll like the Kenny. If I remember rightly, he sets the Dec. 1763 Paxton Boys raids at Conestoga and then Lancaster is a larger context of "vigilante" activity before and after.

You are right.  I really like Kevin Kenny’s Peaceable Kingdom Lost, but more than for more details on the original Paxton Rangers and their ties to the later Paxton Boy vigilantes.  Kenny does a great job summarizing the soup-to-nuts of colonial Pennsylvania, from the immigrants to the Indians to the politics.  A highly-recommended read.  Thankyou.

But he crams so much detail into 280 pages, he also makes some mistakes, one of them one of your favorites. ;)

Quote

My text:

… A smaller but pivotal incident in the Lehigh Valley occurred in October, 1763.  Twenty three people were murdered and scalped, thirteen of them young children, after local friendly Lenape Delaware Indians went on a ten-mile rampage after being robbed while staying at a local tavern (Note 18). Gunmaker John Moll relocated from Berks County to Allentown (then Northampton Town) just months after the 1763 incident, probably because of the increased demand for weapons there.  That demand may also have been the impetus for a local 19-year-old farmer named Peter Newhard to take up gunmaking, providing insight into the questions of when and why Newhard began and who trained him.  

Note 18:  Sources again conflict.  Joseph Mickley counts 23 killed in Whitehall and Allen townships based on live interviews with survivors in 1819 and archived letters, and that the perpetrators were local friendly Delaware Indians trading in Bethlehem.  Kevin Kenny states 31 were killed in Northampton and Lehigh Counties based on newspaper articles in the Pennsylvania Gazette and Pennsylvania Journal of 13, 17 and 23 October, 1763 respectively, and that the attacks were made by Ohio Valley-based Delawares led by Teedyuscung’s son, Captain Bull.  As Lehigh County wasn’t established until 1812, I assume he was repeating the error made by his secondary source, C. Hale Sipe, in his 1929 book, which also references Mickley. I’ve used the original Mickley version because it is closest to the original sources and reflects what the local settlers believed at the time, highlighting the terror of potential random attacks by neighboring friendly Indians during the wide-spread uprising of Pontiac’s Rebellion.  The beliefs of provincial officials, however, point to Captain Bull and western Delawares trading with friendly Moravian Indians in Bethlehem as the perpetrators, but no source offers an explanation why Indians from the Pittsburg area would carry pelts and skins 300 miles to Bethlehem to trade (Kenny 128, 255, 282; Mickley; Sipe 450-63).


http://www.archive.org/stream/indianwarsofpenn00sipe#page/458/mode/2up

http://books.google.com/books?id=9UNCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA26&ots=vacL8mwzGK&dq=joseph+mickley+a+brief+account&output=text#c_top
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Karl Kunkel on February 14, 2011, 06:32:57 AM
I really enjoyed "Peaceable Kingdom Lost".  I found it an enjoyable and educational read.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on February 14, 2011, 08:31:45 PM
Yes, maybe two of my favorite mistakes: using current county names that didn't exist in the period under discussion and repeating this error (if you think it's an error) from an earlier source. Kenny could certainly have got this information from Sipe. Here is Sipe, the first (A) being a quotation from the PA Gazette (where Sipe drops in the bracketed phrase) and the second (B) being Sipe in his own voice:


A. Early this morning came Nicholas Marks, of Whitehall Township, [Lehigh County] and brought the following account.... (p. 458--this is the one you've referenced above)

B. Others are of the opinion that it was perpetrated by Captain Bull and his warriors after committing the murders in Northampton and Lehigh Counties.... (p. 460)



At least Kenny, by referencing Sipe in his own footnote, acknowledges straightforwardly where his information came from.

Scott
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Tony Clark on December 19, 2011, 09:32:53 PM


 There is little doubt that this image is a man wearing a "Phrygian cap"  and is a common symbol denoting liberty, solidarity and revolutionary spirit. It dates back to Greek times and can be found on many items besides firearms from the revolutionary period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_cap
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Fullstock longrifle on December 19, 2011, 10:59:40 PM
Thanks for that information Tony, it certainly makes sense.

Frank
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on December 19, 2011, 11:08:16 PM


 There is little doubt that this image is a man wearing a "Phrygian cap"  and is a common symbol denoting liberty, solidarity and revolutionary spirit. It dates back to Greek times and can be found on many items besides firearms from the revolutionary period.


Very interesting.

What are the other revolutionary-period items that the image appeared on? I'd hoped at one point to look at late eighteenth-century watches (see post above) but never did pursue that.

The puzzle still remains as to why--with relation to firearms, at least--it seems to only appear on rifles from the Lehigh Valley region, which would seem to have no logical connection with this particular representation of revolutionary spirit.

Thanks!

Scott
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: mr. no gold on December 20, 2011, 12:17:27 AM
Good article, and a rational explanation for the Lehigh rifle figures. This may well be the origin, but with exceptions noted above. As for myself, I always tend to question statements that have factual errors that should not be there. I refer to the statement in the Wikipedia Phrygian Cap citation. It seems to include Turkey as being Asian. This area was historically known as the Levant or even the Orient. Asia is Asian and just that. And it seems to me that Phrygia was part of the Greek sphere way back then; guess that Greece was in Asia as well, by that Asian attribution. Oh well, geography was never my strength.
But then, with all the errors in media these days, guess that this is just one more example of the lack of education that marks contemporary journalism.
Dick
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Kermit on December 20, 2011, 01:31:24 AM
Phrygian cap. A symbol of freedom. I like it. As good a speculation as exists. Just that, and nothing more--so far. Keep at it, scholars!
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Tony Clark on December 20, 2011, 01:43:47 AM
As for myself, I always tend to question statements that have factual errors that should not be there. I refer to the statement in the Wikipedia Phrygian Cap citation. It seems to include Turkey as being Asian. This area was historically known as the Levant or even the Orient. Asia is Asian and just that. And it seems to me that Phrygia was part of the Greek sphere way back then; guess that Greece was in Asia as well, by that Asian attribution. Oh well, geography was never my strength.


The Western part of Turkey where Phrygia was located was known as Asia Minor or "small Asia" the derivation comes from a Greek word.

Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: nord on December 20, 2011, 02:00:33 AM
A George Shroyer motif. No question about an indian head. More of a question as to just who it might represent.

 (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww81%2FALRLIBRARY%2FIndian%2FindianDSCF0010.jpg&hash=e56136a32ffc4318fc4b456644c23b18b3e71148)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Kermit on December 20, 2011, 03:12:03 AM
Nord-- why "no question?" Is that "no question in my mind," or is there something you didn't say? Just curious...
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: nord on December 20, 2011, 04:44:55 AM
I guess I'd say with the hairstyle and features that I've come to agree with others much more knowledgeable than myself that this is the representation of an indian. Dr. Whisker seems to believe Tammany. For all I know it could be Tonto but I'd probably go with Whisker before I concluded Tonto.  ;D

The real problem here is that old George has been silent on the matter and I don't see this changing anytime soon. I can't say that I've ever seen another similar piece by Shroyer and I suspect that your opinion is as valid as mine or that of anyone.

Merry Christmas.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Dr. Tim-Boone on December 20, 2011, 04:51:40 PM
From the US Army Quartemaster Museum
The Phrygian cap (often called the Cap of Liberty) supported on the point of an unsheathed sword and the motto "This We’ll Defend" on a scroll held by the rattlesnake is a symbol depicted on some American colonial flags and signifies the Army’s constant readiness to defend and preserve the United States.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qmfound.com%2Farmy_seal.jpg&hash=4ba0672ed9e168e73497b3b17128fcf7344e2307)

BTW, the one on the Shroyer patchbox does not appear to be the same graphic as the Lehigh character............  The one on the Rupp patchbox lid (later gun) look more like a turban and feather... But those early guns from Lehigh sure look like a Liberty cap to me.


BTW: Turkey is geographically, politically and officially part of two continents - Europe and Asia. The smaller northwestern portion (Thrace) is part of Europe, while the larger portion (Anatolia) is part of Asia (Asia Minor).  Phrygia was apparently what is now known as Anatolia (Asian Turkey)  

See http://phrygians.org/ (http://phrygians.org/)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphrygians.org%2Fimages%2FPhrygie.jpg&hash=77e304e910221e68805bf07e0a95fc671d75d451)

It would be interesting to see what else can be found about this cap in Lehigh Valley history..

The phrygian cap is on the NY state flag adopted 1778 based on a revolutionary war flag  according to the state website

Please see this article for very interesting information on contract guns in America as well as the Commanwealth of Pennsylvania barrel proof mark with a Phrygian cap over a P
http://asoac.org/bulletins/91_stewart+reid_pennsylvania.pdf (http://asoac.org/bulletins/91_stewart+reid_pennsylvania.pdf)


Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on December 20, 2011, 04:55:22 PM
Much as it pains me to agree with Tony  ;D ;D ;D ;D (where's the fun in that?) I have never, ever, viewed the heads that are inlaid or carved into Northampton/Lehigh rifles as representative of Indians.  Berks is a different story - a number of the heads I have examined on Berks rifles (as Patrick Hornberger mentioned earlier in the thread, primarily attributable to the upper Townships) are clearly meant to represent Indians complete with feather or feathers.  These decorative interpretations are worthy of a completely separate examination; let's not confuse the two.

I think it is a BIG mistake to view the representations of two distinctly different regions as the same.  This thread specifically made note of the "Lehigh" area, by which most people mean the arms made in the vicinity of Allentown.  All of these 'portraits' that I have personally viewed appear - to me - to clearly represent a woman (some of an obviously buxom nature...) wearing a Phrygian/Liberty cap.  I have not, to date, found similarly-executed representations on any other object of the region, which if you think about it is surprising.  Nor are their any surviving written reference to date; if there are any to be found, I suspect Professor Gordon will find them!

The closest thing I have found to compare to what is found on these Allentown-area rifles can be seen on the earliest US (i.e. post-War US) coinage:

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi573.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss172%2Fmoldyoak%2FLiberty%2520Cap%2Fimg021.jpg&hash=06c51098b918b1868f749dee735f198a3398d83a)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi573.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss172%2Fmoldyoak%2FLiberty%2520Cap%2Fimg022.jpg&hash=69652c10f2456e2d4c2100652996cf92db5d8e01)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi573.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss172%2Fmoldyoak%2FLiberty%2520Cap%2Fimg024.jpg&hash=26aa7b6407b7419668c2945928b4ecea205899e0)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi573.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss172%2Fmoldyoak%2FLiberty%2520Cap%2Fimg025.jpg&hash=8acf1e08538140109a82235b607bbf9b8a604f2b)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi573.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss172%2Fmoldyoak%2FLiberty%2520Cap%2Fimg023.jpg&hash=4ad47329bb0bc693f854fdbabbf0df828776f132)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi573.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss172%2Fmoldyoak%2FLiberty%2520Cap%2Fimg026.jpg&hash=47f93f680215abdeaa7123daa27570299e16dc25)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi573.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss172%2Fmoldyoak%2FLiberty%2520Cap%2Fimg027.jpg&hash=2223b314e8b416180895e47c2bd5609d36e6d891)

(Poor quality scans, don't have much time at the moment)

What is interesting is that these early representations also coincide with the period during which the bulk of these effigies are assumed to have been carved/inlaid upon the rifles, i.e. the period immediately following the War, say approx. 20 years give or take.  

Why Northampton/Allentown?

The earliest carved version of this head which I have viewed is found upon an unsigned and currently unpublished rifle which I would attribute - based on style, carved detail and furnishings - to John Moll Sr.  Yes, an attribution only, but I feel an intelligent attribution based upon comparison with slightly later signed rifles.  I believe the rifle in question dates to the period 1775-1785 and appears somewhat contemporary to the signed and dated Oerter rifles.

I am firmly convinced Moll was involved in the War effort ca. 1777-1779 when a very important gunsmithing/gunstocking/gun repair arsenal was established at Allentown.  All of the men who signed rifles which feature this "liberty head" were men who have for any years been considered as prime candidates for having been involved with this arsenal.  Furthermore, during this period of the War, the population of Northampton Co. exploded - following the evacuation of Philadelphia - and it became a crucial crossroads of men and materials necessary to the War effort.  It also became a hotbed of patriotic fervor.

So, my personal opinion (which is of course speculation) is that this representation originated as something basically akin to a 'club' symbol, something like a badge which developed amongst a small group of men in a confined area all working at the same trade at the same time for the same cause.  The concept of the Liberty Cap or 'Lady Liberty' was an important anthropomorphic evolution of the drive for independence, was well-known throughout the colonies, and it seems to me only natural that much like practically every other object within the budding United States it would be interpreted via a visual regional dialect of sorts.

Everyone else's mileage may vary.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Lucky R A on December 20, 2011, 06:09:51 PM
      A few other gunsmiths who used the Indian head were Wlm. Antes, E. Bloom (both of Bucks Co.)   There is then Wlm. Troutman who worked in western Pa. but I believe served his apprenticeship possibly in the Lehigh Valley.   I am sure there were others, but these come to mind as I have made copies of their work over the years.   
       While the early settlers did not share the "noble savage," idea of revisionest history, I doubt that they put an Indian head on the guns as a sign that they could make "head shots."   If the enemy was close enough to see the symbol, you did not have to worry about "head shots."
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Dphariss on December 20, 2011, 06:27:15 PM
Thank you Eric.
I am not well informed on early American Coinage but apparently should be.

Dan
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on December 20, 2011, 10:50:47 PM

I am firmly convinced Moll was involved in the War effort ca. 1777-1779 when a very important gunsmithing/gunstocking/gun repair arsenal was established at Allentown.  All of the men who signed rifles which feature this "liberty head" were men who have for any years been considered as prime candidates for having been involved with this arsenal.  Furthermore, during this period of the War, the population of Northampton Co. exploded - following the evacuation of Philadelphia - and it became a crucial crossroads of men and materials necessary to the War effort.  It also became a hotbed of patriotic fervor.

So, my personal opinion (which is of course speculation) is that this representation originated as something basically akin to a 'club' symbol, something like a badge which developed amongst a small group of men in a confined area all working at the same trade at the same time for the same cause.

Linking the varied riflemakers who carved this figure on their work to a shared experience in the Allentown factory is a great insight--and very persuasive (to me) because it helps answer the most puzzling question as to why this liberty symbol, which as the coinage indicates is by no means peculiar to Northampton County, would appear only on Northampton County rifles.   

I suppose this means, then, that "the figure of a manhead" on the pre-1772 Newcomer rifle isn't this same figure, since it would have appeared on a Lancaster County rifle before the revolutionary period.

Does anybody know what this "figure of a manhead" might refer to? As I mentioned in a post a while back, whatever the "figure of a manhead" may have been it also seems to have been engraved on watches in the 1760s and 1770s.

Scott
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Dr. Tim-Boone on December 21, 2011, 01:03:05 AM
Apparently there used to be a major statue in the center of Allentown, of Liberty wearing a Phrygian cap as opposed to the spiked crown of her namesake in NY Harbor.. The statue was damaged by hurricane and destroyed in the early/mid 20th century I think.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: FALout on December 21, 2011, 03:02:50 AM
Great discussion. I don't have anything to offer, but I remembered a pic I had seen with these carvings/engravings of indian heads (such as we think they are indians), so I had to go and look up that pick.  It was from a web page on Joe Kindig, within his collection, he had lots of rifles with these symbols.  Oh would I love to see that collection of rifles....
Here's the page: http://kindigrifles.com/sun_article.html (http://kindigrifles.com/sun_article.html)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on December 21, 2011, 04:53:11 AM
I forgot about Antes - he's an interesting character, w/ ties to Northampton, Bucks and Northumberland counties.  I don't really know how he would fit into the Allentown area group, but there certainly were familial ties to Bethlehem and NH county and he *apparently* (there is a scant amount of documentation) was doing something gun-related during the War.  It's not entirely clear to my knowledge.  I'm going to have to discount the whole Ephraim Bloom thing though - a single surviving gun, stamped only with EB and with no other basis for comparison?  I have to pass on that.  To my mind, that smacks of the 1960s-1970s dire need to put a name on everything.  Neat gun, but by whom and built where is very questionable I think.

Great pic of the Kindigs.  There are a mix of Berks and Lehighs there.  I see three Peter Angstadts which are an odd blending of a Jesus figure and an Indian (that's how I see them, anyway...), at least one Neihart and one John Rupp, as well as some other Berks and Lehighs.  Great photo.

I can't take full credit for the theory I posited previously.  I've believed for some time that the Allentown figures were directly tied to the arsenal and the War effort, and in multiple conversations with Robert Weil on this topic, he mentioned a hypothesis that the figures were something of a regional trademark or 'club emblem' of sorts, and therefore I have essentially combined the two ideas.

Let's also remember that following the evacuation of Philadelphia, the Liberty Bell was hidden in the Zion church in Allentown.  It's unclear to me, however, whether or not the bell was possessive of any inspirational or symbolic meaning at that point in time.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Lucky R A on December 21, 2011, 02:34:08 PM
       The E.B smoothbore attributed to Ephraim Bloom, may well fit into your hypothesis and should not be discounted.   E.B. whoever he was, worked in an early Bucks Co.  The Indian heads at the front of the lock panels are nearly identical to those on the Antes swivel breech, which suggest some association.    It could be entirely possible that both of these gunsmiths were members of the group assembled at Allentown to do gun work.  Antes, Weiker etc. seem to be the forerunners of what evolved into the classic Bucks Co. style.  These men would certainly would have been identified as gunsmiths before the onset of the war
        The whole idea of the Liberty Cap being used as a unit/guild whatever identifier makes a lot more sense than the "head shot" theory.   There were a lot of classically educated men in Philadelphia and 50 miles north in Bethlehem.  The Liberty Cap would have been known, and a perfect symbol for the cause.   The circumstantial evidence mounts.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on December 21, 2011, 08:35:09 PM
Let me clarify - I'm not discounting the EB gun itself, as it is a neat old gun and of course carries the Liberty head ornamentation.  What I do discount is the attribution to Blum/Bloom based *solely* on the very crude EB barrel marking.  That's all.  The gun very well could have been made anywhere in upper Bucks or practically anywhere in NH county and in fact for all we know could be a War-era piece as it looks hasty or built of necessity.

Thinking a bit more on Antes, looking at the signed guns as well as a very small handful of attributed guns (the attributions based upon the signed work), it is obvious that he worked with a VERY broad palette and did not confine himself to what we now view as distinctly regional forms.  It seems, to my eye, he was more willing than many to 'borrow' design features and integrate them into his own unique work.  Perhaps he had  no connection at all with the underlying purpose behind the Allentown area Liberty heads, but having seen them somewhere, he 'borrowed' the design based solely upon decorative appeal.   
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: mr. no gold on December 22, 2011, 01:29:18 AM
The concept of a logo mark for a specific group, as being the inception of this figure, makes good sense to me. Fraternal orders are replete with symbols and other traits of their organizations. It is an easy jump to think that this occurred among a select group of specialists. But, after awhile it became another ornament to be applied as a regional item of decoration and it lasted for a long time.
The image on the coins is always in profile; the image on the rifles seems to always be full faced. There may be some undiscerned reason for that change. The alteration of a known image for the purpose of a 'secret' symbol is quite possible.  Doubt that we will ever know, but a round of standing applause to you who have done the research for this.
Dick
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on December 22, 2011, 01:54:05 AM
How late, roughly, was this symbol used on NH rifles (I recognize that dating of many rifles is only approximate)? What are the latest rifles that we know of that have this figure engraved?

If I understand correctly, the earliest rifles that carry this symbol would date from the Revolution--and so would predate the coins with the Phrygian/Liberty cap. To me, this means that the coins are useful in showing that the image on the rifles is sporting a Phrygian/Liberty cap--but not that the coins are its source. So the profile vs. the frontal view of the face isn't particularly troubling.

(Actually, the Phrygian/Liberty caps on the coins aren't really "like" the ones on the rifles: the ones on the rifles emphasize the curved top of the cap, and the caps on the coins [from what I can tell] don't.)

Scott

Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on December 22, 2011, 04:06:34 AM
I'll have to dig into that; just off the top of my head, one of Herman Rupp's is signed/dated 1809 although I'm pretty positive that inlay is a restoration (filling an original mortise, however, so there definitely was one there).

The Moll pistol made for, or later obtained by, Col. Levi Wells, has touchmarks stamped into the cast brass barrel w/ the head in profile within a cartouche.  I'll have to double check on that one - again, just going by memory here as some of my books are currently boxed up.

I have to reiterate that the earliest, or *apparently earliest* (I know you are inquiring as to the latest dating...) pieces I have seen with these either carved or inlaid are both signed and attributed to Johannes Moll.  The Antes swivel breech is probably contemporary with these, i.e. late 1770s/1780s.

I am aware of a early unsigned rifle that is almost positively Peter Neihart - anyone viewing it would immediately assume Neihart, although it is not signed - that looks War era.  Certainly quite a bit earlier than his dated 1787 rifle, and this does *not* carry the head.

Random thinking.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: DaveM on December 22, 2011, 04:33:53 AM
I'll throw my 2 cents in the ring - I think those that think it is an indian and those that think it is lady liberty are both right.  The earliest depictions of "America", later to become lady liberty, depicted America as an indian woman.  These two logos were created for a popular magazine by Paul Revere and are examples of the earliest symbolization of "America" dating to as early as about 1774.  If this depiction originated with Revere, that could mean the first usage of this symbol would have been about 1774 as depicted in magazines circulating in the day.  My opinion anyway, others may be more correct.I believe this logo morphed between the Rev War and the federal period coinage so it could vary depending on how old a gun is.  The liberty cap was also stamped on the 1797 Pennsylvania contract muskets.  Forgive me if anyone copied these same images before but I didn't look back at old posts.  The image at the bottom I read was the earliest known usage of American as an indian female.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz228%2FDaveM_bucket%2F1776__2.jpg&hash=2f91d7126a4896cfa73b740fab29507fdbe9f708)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz228%2FDaveM_bucket%2F1774_Paul_Reveres_logotype_for_the_Royal_American_Magazine_1774_2.jpg&hash=9750561765dee0b7b555cb5e13daffb93aa5835e)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on December 22, 2011, 01:57:22 PM
That is extremely interesting Dave!  It also might explain why they look more like the classic "Lady Liberty" or 'anglo' in the Allentown area, and more like Indians on some of the Berks rifles.  Two different regions, two different interpretations of the same personification.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on December 22, 2011, 06:47:18 PM
Three good sites/blogs about this here:

http://www.clements.umich.edu/exhibits/online/american-encounters/american-encounters-women.php

http://b-womeninamericanhistory18.blogspot.com/2009/09/america-depicted-as-woman.html

http://b-womeninamericanhistory18.blogspot.com/2009/07/blog-post.html

Please make sure you check out the second image in the third link: a female patriot carrying a rifle or musket and a powder horn!

And the first site includes a 1755 image in which an Indian Queen represents America. Another pretty interesting book, American Indians in British Art, 1700-1840, includes images of America as a female Indian dating back to 1700 or so.

Seems like the first America-as-Lady-Liberty image dates to 1782 or so? The earlier images feature America-as-Indian (without the "liberty cap" that seems crucial to the images on the rifles). What's further confusing is that "Lady Liberty" most often isn't wearing a liberty cap in these images, though she sports other icons that identify her as the representation of liberty.

Nor, of course, is the liberty cap always or even most often identified with "ladies"! It's more typical association would have been with slaves--i.e., male figures.

So I guess I'm convinced that the carvings on these rifles represent the liberty cap, which would make sense at the revolutionary moment when colonists felt they were resisting Britain's attempt to "enslave" them (especially if, as Eric K. suggests, they began to appear on rifles by craftsmen associated with the arms factory at Allentown). Not so convinced they have much to do with Lady Liberty.



Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on December 22, 2011, 08:25:19 PM
Maybe the Allentown heads are Ann Penn Allen!  Didn't everyone love her?  Alex Chamberlain (now deceased) had a GREAT - probably the greatest, in my view - John Moll rifle which he believed was made for James Greenleaf; KRA show @ 2001 or 2002 had a great display revolving around it.  So maybe Moll was tight with the Greenleafs?  BTW that rifle seems to have vanished or at least nobody is talking, and unfortunately it has not been published.

This is probably all very silly, and mostly a whim, but it came to me just now whilst eating a ham sandwich.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Kermit on December 22, 2011, 08:35:17 PM
I'm really enjoying this discussion. The only "very silly" aspect is that quantum leap involved in the "clean head shot" idea. I'm reading nothing that begins to support such a notion.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: DaveM on December 22, 2011, 08:51:53 PM
Eric, yes I agree different locales and slightly different designs could be explained by interpretation.  But in general I would think they all represent "America" as the basic patriotic message, and visually something easy for anyone looking at the guns to understand in the period.  Art of the period has plenty of different interpretations of the same "Lady America" persona.  Here is a link to another article that talks more about the evolution of this persona design / logo.  The headress in this image looks to me very similar to the cap in some of the rifle carvings (the ones without the more obvious cap) but hard to tell from the side.  spgordon thanks for those links that is some of the stuff I saw.

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~cap/liberty/origins.html
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Dr. Tim-Boone on December 22, 2011, 09:53:26 PM
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-HiMhdDrvst8%2FThFaZGO8mxI%2FAAAAAAAAqWY%2F0Fj_5tgJ3xs%2Fs1600%2Funtitlevd.bmp&hash=bace1f9e7a6fbfbd16f1cb285f23cc887dab43aa)
1800 - Brown University

Looks like the headress on the Rupp rifle???

Very interesting history  and graphics here:   http://www.midi-france.info/06141204_libertycap.htm (http://www.midi-france.info/06141204_libertycap.htm)

Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on December 22, 2011, 11:18:18 PM
Boone shoots - he scores!  Goooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!

That is a FANTASTIC picture.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: mr. no gold on December 22, 2011, 11:45:40 PM
Not the same, as on my Peter Neihart rifle, circa 1785.
Dick
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Kermit on December 23, 2011, 01:53:01 AM
As Tim's avatar says, "I like this hat!" Thanks for the link--a good read.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on December 23, 2011, 03:43:33 AM
Dick I don't think we'll ever find a piece of artwork or other graphic representation that is a dead-on match for those Allentown-area heads, nor the Berks Indian heads etc.  These early guys were executing relatively simplistic engraving and relatively simplistic inlay work (compared to, say, Kuntz or John Young etc.) and I think (speculation here) the inlay or carved head took the form it did because it was fairly easy to inlay or execute via carving and engraving onto the curved surface of a rifle.  I think all of the graphic representations of the American/Indian-Liberty, Lady Liberty etc. that have been illustrated here largely point towards the concept of the heads being some kind of (primarily feminine) personification of American liberty or independence as these tradesmen interpreted it; this interpretation is filtered through the typical means of execution common to their trade, therefore the heads look like rifle inlays or carving precidely because they are rifle inlays/carving designed by gunmakers.  I think it actually might look funny to find a portrait of someone that outright resembled one of those heads as they stand upon the rifles!  I remember Robert Weil doing something like that in Photoshop for one of the old CLA posters, and it was quite humorous.

One thing that I find extremely interesting is the extreme similarity of all of them attributable to the Allentown area; this to my mind points toward a common source or prototype, so again I have to toss Moll's name out there as I genuinely believe him to be the progenitor of the 'school.'  He certainly was the oldest.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: bgf on December 23, 2011, 04:23:05 AM
I may have missed it in the preceding discussion, but isn't the feminine personification of America also called "Columbia" as on the coinage?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_%28name%29
I noticed it says she was often depicted with the cap, but also with a laurel or Indian feathered head dress.

That's all I've got and maybe not relevant at all, so I'll go back to enjoying the discussion.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: cyrus1066 on November 13, 2014, 01:51:02 AM
This raises more questions by location eg forward of trigger guard.:
The hardest issue is to execute a reasonable personification of a portrait on a small,curved limited space..eg forewood....as seems to be the case mostly.
Why was the Indian Head (if so important) not carved,relief or incise ,or engraved and inlaid in decent size on cheek piece or other very obvious area....instead it seems to be relegated to an area of low visibility.I believe it had low importance otherwise it would have had primary viewing placement eg behind cheekpiece or on patchbox side,or patchbox itself.
As portraits they also seem to be single dimension..eg no shading........re sides of head,beside nose,under chin.......therefore these (in my humble opinion) are representational of a theme or belief only .
That theme is interestingly placed forward of the trigger guard.
Remember that colonials in this era were still superstitious.
I see this as raising more questions until an actual  document is found between gunsmiths of the  period discussing what the head actually means. I believe  we may never know.
 
 
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Shreckmeister on November 13, 2014, 04:18:37 AM
You said the inlay is relegated to a place of low importance, an area of low visibility.
I would venture to say that a very large percentage of guns are stood in corners.  This
would actually make the inlay in one of the most prominently viewed areas of the gun as it rests.  Just throwing that out for discussion.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: jdm on November 13, 2014, 04:59:28 AM
Got a Lehigh rifle with one engraved on the patch box lid.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on November 13, 2014, 07:02:59 PM
Post a picture!

I think the "head on the box lid" guns are some of the coolest around.  Interestingly enough, they all seem to be later than the head forward of the guard guns, something of a second generation thing.  I know of two that are definitely Stoffel Long, which is particularly interesting in that his work very clearly seems to have an affinity with that of Jacob George up in NE Berks Co. and out of the accepted "Lehigh" area (although bordering it).  Without going back through all my paperwork currently in many boxes, I'm guessing there are a 'handful' of pieces out there with the head on the box lid, something of a rarity I think.  As I recall, all of them are somewhat folk-art oriented, in other words, they're not as refined as the pieces either carved or inlaid/engraved forward of the guard on the pieces accepted as Molls, Neihart or Rupps etc., but they have a very strong appeal in their own way.

Wondering if yours is one that's been pictured or I've seen previously? 
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: RAT on November 13, 2014, 07:06:40 PM
This...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_%28mythology%29

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Having said that, others have co-opted classical symbols including folks involved in the revolutionary cause. The image for "Lady Liberty" came from someplace. Like everything else, it probably came from classical Greece/Rome.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: jdm on November 14, 2014, 12:18:26 AM
Eric,
 This  rifle has never been published before. I'll see if I can talk  Rob into posting a couple of pictures for me.   JIM
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Shreckmeister on November 14, 2014, 12:55:49 AM
JDM's patchbox

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1116.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk570%2Fsuzkat11%2FIMG_0135_zps9491c45b.jpg&hash=8affbf94fd6ce4ef13f67e6face03164d6cb9c3c) (http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/suzkat11/media/IMG_0135_zps9491c45b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on November 14, 2014, 02:13:49 PM
Now THAT's a head!  Pretty darned cool, and it's the only 'head' engraved on a box that I've ever seen (speaking for myself only) that wasn't of the more folksy, funky Stoffel Long type of engraving/design.  Learn something every day!  Yours looks like a Kuntz, very professional.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Shreckmeister on November 14, 2014, 03:17:29 PM
My belief is that the image strongly represents Lady Liberty.  It's prominence on this patchbox as the only adornment on the rifle speaks proudly.  Eric, did you see the Stophel Long rifle with folky folky eagle on the cheek that sold earlier this year at Julia.  It gets my vote for best folk art rifle ever.  I will try to get permission to post pictures here, but it's in the catalog if you saved it.


(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1116.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk570%2Fsuzkat11%2FLehigh8_zps3ae795a9.jpg&hash=6f1a04d5ca8289a9a9ab7d61079e34dfaaf5c5f2) (http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/suzkat11/media/Lehigh8_zps3ae795a9.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Fullstock longrifle on November 14, 2014, 07:37:51 PM
Very cool rifle!
Frank
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: RAT on November 14, 2014, 10:48:45 PM
It looks like that buttplate was on a different rifle at some point. There's a relief filed in the edge for a larger patchbox.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: JTR on November 15, 2014, 01:30:24 AM
I like it too!
So, anything of interest on the cheek side?  ;D
John
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: jdm on November 15, 2014, 02:10:21 AM
Rat,  I was wondering if anyone would catch that. The but plate looks original to the rifle. I believe  the maker was going to put side plates on the patch box the changed his mind for some reason. The brass was so dark on this rifle when I got it you could hardly tell what was on the patch box.  I left everything in the black. At one time I sold this to buy another rifle then got it back several years later. The other owner cleaned up the brass a little.  There is also a worm in the patch box that screws onon the ramrod.

JTR   Just wood.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Shreckmeister on November 15, 2014, 03:34:27 AM
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1116.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk570%2Fsuzkat11%2FLehigh2_zps79a19485.jpg&hash=f1a9ae205430842a077201c76a3d1663ce1c3779) (http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/suzkat11/media/Lehigh2_zps79a19485.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: JTR on November 15, 2014, 04:12:42 AM
Sweet rifle none the less! Thanks for showing us some pictures!
John
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: jdm on November 15, 2014, 08:10:09 AM

Sweet rifle none the less! Thanks for showing us some pictures!
John

Thanks, This has always been one of my favorites. It's not fancy but it's one I couldn't let go. To me it's like some of the Tennessee rifles .Not real fancy but nice lines. They don't always need a lot of extras if they have good lines.

Rat, I always had it in my head that  the maker had cut the but plate that way for side plates. I got to thinking after I read your comments maybe your right. This butt plate I believe is original to the gun but maybe it's one he had( for what ever reason )so instead of making a new one he used it. I'm glad some of you enjoyed it  JIM
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: jdm on November 15, 2014, 06:10:34 PM
[quote author=Shreckmeister
My belief is that the image strongly represents Lady Liberty.  It's prominence on this patchbox as the only adornment on the rifle speaks proudly. 

Rob, I agree with you at least on this rifle. The face on here is very feminine . There is nothing Indian Head about it.
I've always been back and forth on the maker. When I first acquired it I felt it was Rupp. I have a Rupp signed J R on the patchbox. This rifle has the same incised lines around the tang and trigger guard. There is also similar carving around the rear ramrod pipe.  The patchbox sure looks like Jacob Kuntz though. I've seen other Kuntz rifles with this same architecture . In fact could be the same stock pattern.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Buck on November 15, 2014, 06:24:29 PM
Jim,
Great rifle, it would be nice to see it in person. Maybe in February?
Buck
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: cdscoot on March 08, 2018, 01:23:52 AM
In doing some research on symbols of the American revolution in it's early stages I came across this in an article by the Metropolitan museum of art. Here is a link to the page....https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/eagl/hd_eagl.htm.  Before the eagle was accepted as the American symbol  " a partially clothed indigenous woman wearing a feather headdress had served that function." Perhaps this will shed some light on those rifles with this symbol on them.

Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: rich pierce on March 08, 2018, 01:47:54 AM
The article points to a painting named “Liberty” depicting a woman handing a cup to an eagle.  Reminds me more of the Statue of Liberty than the Lehigh figure.

https://www.google.com/search?q=edward+savage+painting+liberty&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=ismvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyiczNpNvZAhUI74MKHTLpAl8Q_AUIESgB&biw=768&bih=922&dpr=2#imgrc=x2kIhZa3x2OfOM:
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: cdscoot on March 08, 2018, 02:11:25 AM
The author says that this symbol of the Indian female soon gave way to the to goddesslike representations. This says to me that the female Indian head was an earlier representation.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Arcturus on March 08, 2018, 03:24:11 AM
Earliest representations of an American liberty goddess were called "Columbia", and often a native female.  This gave way to a more classical ancient European liberty figure, in the Phrygian cap, the symbol of liberty.  There is no doubt in my mind that this is what is represented on the Lehigh rifles, not an Indian warrior.  A look at the images on the very first coins minted by the fledgling United States also makes it clear that this Lady Liberty in a liberty cap was a prominent and popular figure in American culture at the time these rifles were made. 
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bill Paton on March 08, 2018, 10:41:46 AM
I am firmly in Arcturus’ camp. There is a wonderful pair of “Lady Liberty” statues, one in the Confederate Museum in Richmond beside the Davis Whitehouse, and the other in the American History Museum at the Smithsonian. Another Virginia flag in the Richmond museum shows a Greek “?” warrior in a Liberty cap standing over “Tyranny”. I think those Lehigh heads are sporting Liberty Caps and are intensely nationalistic symbols.

Bill Paton
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on March 08, 2018, 05:27:10 PM
I believe when this has been discussed before--perhaps even in this long thread (which I did not re-read in total)--it has been stated that these figures appear only on Lehigh County rifles. Any theories as to why this national symbol would appear only in rifles from this particular area? Or does it appear more widely?
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Seth Isaacson on March 08, 2018, 05:57:10 PM
When I see these "Lehigh Ladies" I have always identified them as a woman in a phrygian cap representing liberty or a fashionable woman with a ostrich feather in her hair. Possibly "Columbia" with a feather instead of a phrygian cap as is sometimes seen. See Tim Boone's picture for example. The cap has obvious historical significance to the American republic, and the latter was en vogue in the period.

(https://janeaustensworld.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/lady-godinas-rout-or-peeping-tom-pope_joan-hannah-humphrey.jpg?w=768&h=562)

(https://janeaustensworld.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/1796-tippies-of-1796-caricature-richard-newton.jpg)

(https://s.hswstatic.com/gif/marie-antoinette-wedding-dress-crop.jpg)

Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on March 08, 2018, 06:23:39 PM
Scott they are primarily found on rifles of the Northampton Co. area, however also there is some bleed-over into eastern Berks Co. although most (if not all) of what is found in eastern Berks is much more 'folky' or primitive.  Also the only times I've seen such a head with what is clearly a feather - as opposed to a cap - have been on rifles of eastern Berks.

I have long felt that the origins of this symbol being used upon Northampton rifles are somehow tied to the fact that a fairly substantial, busy armory was established in Allentown ca. 1777-1779, and the use of this symbol was in some way a commemoration of Revolutionary spirit.  Thus far, the earliest I have seen are upon arms signed by or otherwise attributed to the Moll family.  John Sr. was long-established in Allentown by the time the War broke out, and was present during the time the armory was in operation although whether he worked directly for Cowell/Tyler or aided the effort in his own shop - or some combination of the two - is still a mystery.  I do believe he was the progenitor of this symbol being used on arms, and because I also believe he trained at least some of the others that utilized it, I think it somehow was being used after the War as something of a commemorative "brand."
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: wmrike on March 08, 2018, 07:25:56 PM
If in fact it was a talisman as the original post suggested, it doesn't necessarily follow that it would be a style element up and down the length of the frontier, even though the length of English-influenced settlement everywhere was subject to Indian attack.

What we are discussing is a style element, a fashion statement.  It was what was done in a time, in a place, to the dictates of a model or design, for whatever reason.  Just as other design elements of the Pennsylvania rifle showed relatively little bleedover across even (by today's standards) short distances. it would be presumptuous of us to think that a Lehigh motif would be universally incorporated.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Majorjoel on March 08, 2018, 10:00:03 PM
I have often thought that the Lehigh made rifles had a more French influence than a Germanic influence.

These female figures have a lot of French style to them IMHO.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on March 08, 2018, 10:17:59 PM
Not a lady liberty head, but given the evacuation of Philadelphia and the manner in which Northampton Co. for a brief period of time was absolutely "hopping" with people, evacuees and Revolutionary spirit, some might find this interesting.  It sits smack dab in the middle of the period the armories were going fill steam ahead in Allentown (i.e., Northampton Town):


(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2FeX4yL7%2F193460_view_02_02.jpg&hash=7f1ca6af4948d4f5cc81def8d9791bfc94e4fce5) (http://ibb.co/bStsf7)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2FjWgdL7%2F193460_view_03_03.jpg&hash=b849eaf892dcb5ac23ae45af1a32271aca9eae2a) (http://ibb.co/c39nDS)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2Fmc27DS%2F193460_view_04_04.jpg&hash=0fadd4703775aa3ad501b7ae4986266457048678) (http://ibb.co/eo5507)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2FfNJsf7%2F193460.jpg&hash=11cf29b6d3c63f9de71c134bd74a05e830f64582) (http://ibb.co/iC33nn)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on March 10, 2018, 02:29:46 AM
This one is pretty obviously a feather - probably upper Bucks Co. ca. late 1770s-1780s:


(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FbNrHYS%2Funk_face.jpg&hash=5cf87ece0c2b2d874341e3da52650a0801404376) (http://ibb.co/dQKh07)



(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2Fi6U4DS%2Funk_faceclose.jpg&hash=59b8b228d6f207c47336f8e191ffe461d3c60ea0) (http://ibb.co/e7HD7n)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Seth Isaacson on March 12, 2018, 05:13:26 PM
Interesting Eric. This one also looks a lot more Indian-esque than the "Lehigh Lady."
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Seth Isaacson on April 19, 2018, 10:02:17 PM
Here are some more examples I've saved which look far less lady like:
(https://lotnut-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/item-image-variations%2F62%2F30%2Ff7%2F7c%2F0b%2F48%2F49%2F87%2Fa3%2F8f%2Fd6%2F16%2Fb7%2F9f%2Fde%2F23%2F6230f77c-0b48-4987-a38f-d616b79fde23%2F5-large.jpg?Expires=1524185856&AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI527EG6KJ6SF5UNA&Signature=Beod1djKswRVA6q7et8a10udUeE%3D)
Unsigned rifle
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/99/18/1d/99181dbaac63055ec9b859dec9be8ead.jpg)
(https://jamesdjulia.com/wp-content/uploads/images/auctions/373/images/lrg/54771x7.jpg)
Stoeffell Long attributed
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: jdm on April 20, 2018, 12:09:16 AM
I'll add this little lady to the mix. She was in this post earlier but got lost.


(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FmmuNK7%2FIMG_0135.jpg&hash=dc5cc30f29dde2a77f14b11f09a44d7ba3bc37c1) (http://ibb.co/dvEdsS)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FdaAwe7%2FIMG_0140.jpg&hash=c6e168ad60851aaaa8c0442f085e3a661fa25904) (http://ibb.co/hDxbe7)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Arcturus on April 20, 2018, 07:44:07 PM
She's all lady!  Screams "LIBERTY!", to me.  First one could be selling Starbucks coffee, second has that feathery-bonneted, haughty Princess Columbia look goin' on (even with a beak-nose, she knows she HOT).  The third with hair pulled back may be going for a new fashion trend, but I'm too distracted by the great patchbox finial inlay and the details of the patchbox cavity to pay much attention to her short-haired look!   ;)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Arcturus on April 24, 2018, 09:50:31 PM
Joking aside, only the single-feather head posted above by Eric strikes me as Indian rather than Liberty Lady...and I was reminded of it when I saw on the Contemporary Makers blog yesterday a flintlock made by Eric that incorporated a similar face in brass with the single feather carved above it.  (Nice work, btw, Eric)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: jdm on April 25, 2018, 04:14:40 AM
Arcturus,  If some are made to be American Indian . While others are  representing  Lady Liberty. That brings up even more questions.  I agree with you in that these may not represent the same thing . Why two different things? Why almost  only in Eastern Pa.
I wonder when is the earliest known? What is the latest known? It seems the majority of the ones I've seen are 1790-1810 . I can see the Liberty cap (head) still being in the hearts and minds of people during this time.  However the Indian was certainly on there minds also.  Any way they are neat and in my mind add a lot to the gun. 
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on April 25, 2018, 04:22:42 AM
I posted this six years ago— from the PA Gazette:

November 25, 1772
The Pennsylvania Gazette
FOUR DOLLARS Reward.
LOST, or taken out of a waggon loaded with hops, betwixt the river Sasquehanna and Philadelphia, upon the 5th, 6th, or 7th day of this present month November, a strong board CASE, without mark or direction, inclosing a very neat new FOWLING PIECE, 4 feet 2 inches in the barrel, 5 feet 5 inches the whole length of the gun, with a curled walnut stock, sliding loops, mounted with brass, the foresight and thumbpiece silver, the makername John Newcomer, engraven upon the hind part of the barrel, near the figure of a manhead, and J. Newcomer engraven on the lock. Whoever has found the same, is desired to deliver it to Joseph Vandegrist, at the sign of the Cross keys, in Chestnut street, Philadelphia; to Caleb Way, at the sign of the Waggon, on the Philadelphia road; to Matthias Slough, at the sign of the Swan, in Lancaster; or to James Wright, in Hempfield, near Susquehanna, and they shall receive FOUR DOLLARS reward. JAMES WRIGHT.

Note the remark "Near the figure of a manhead." Could that be a reference to our "indian head" decoration? If not, what could “the figure of a manhead” refer to??
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: rich pierce on April 25, 2018, 04:45:11 AM
Says the signature on the barrel is near the figure of a man head.  Sounds like it may be a stamp or engraving on the barrel. 
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on April 25, 2018, 04:58:18 AM
There are a couple of others that I think are definitely intended to represent a single tall feather, but not many.  However, on the flip side of the same coin, there have been multiple representations of 'lady liberty' and some appear to clearly represent a native.

I feel pretty strongly that the image appearing to be a woman with a more elaborate head dress - as applied to these rifles -is the earlier form and the single feather form is a later, more 'folksy' interpretation.  This is based upon the surviving guns.  I also feel EXTREMELY strongly that this originated with John Moll Sr..  I believe it is somehow tied to the events in Northampton Co. during the war, possibly the manufactories/shops in Allentown, or possible somehow tied to the removal and hiding of the Liberty Bell as well as much of anything important removed out of Philadelphia when the British took it over.  I think it was originally intended as a 'brand' and was subsequently adopted by others associated with the manufactory, or with Moll, or those trained by him, or those simply trying to cash in on a 'brand.'

We will never have a definitive explanation of WHY this particular area, and WHAT it was specifically attempting to convey, until some text or other period document manifests offering some detail.  I won't hold my breath.  I am basing my opinion on surviving examples and a timeline that makes sense to me, based once again on my own opinion after examining many original pieces.   
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Seth Isaacson on August 15, 2018, 11:37:26 PM
Instead of starting a whole new discussion I thought this would be a good place to add this piece into the mix:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/unique-allentown-john-moll-jr.-engraved-patchbox-fe54ce7a30
(https://p1.liveauctioneers.com/249/126244/64230572_1_x.jpg?version=1534263739&width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&quality=50)

That patch box door definitely shows an Indian not a colonial lady.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Craig Wilcox on August 16, 2018, 12:57:25 AM
A darn good addition to the discussion!  This one is clearly an Indian.
For me, an extremely interesting discussion, and I thank you for the addition which has brought it to the front.
Whether an Indian, Lady Liberty in a Phrygian cap, or the woman serving the beer at the local hangout tavern, it is very perplexing puzzle.  Indeed, one that we may never know the correct answer to.
But - he/she/it IS going to be on the Rupp rifle I am attempting to emulate.

Many thanks, Rambling Historian, many thanks!
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on August 16, 2018, 01:01:16 AM
To me, the most puzzling thing about this puzzle is why this design/decoration--whatever it is--would only appear on rifles from this particular area. Whether it is an Indian, or a liberty boy, or whatever, rifle makers and rifle owners from Lehigh County would have had no particular or unusual motivation to put such a design on their rifles. Lots of areas of PA and elsewhere experienced Indian encountered; and lots of areas embraced liberty; etc.

So why on rifles only from this area?
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on August 16, 2018, 05:57:15 AM
Scott - I don't see what clearly makes that an Indian.  I would say it *could* be, but it could also represent a rifleman with a 'liberty' cap and a rifle frock.  It's interesting that the rifle engraved along with the figure is indeed meant to convey a rifle given the obviousness of the box lid.  Colonial riflemen were known for carrying tomahawks also.

I likewise would love to know the "why" of this particular area.  I've offered a couple of my own theories ad nauseam but would love to hear others.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Craig Wilcox on August 16, 2018, 03:31:16 PM
We have GOT to get to work on that "WayBack" machine!  So many questions to be answered, puzzles to be solved!
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Seth Isaacson on August 16, 2018, 04:21:20 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that Native Americans and Native American imagery became symbols of white America too, especially in the early national period.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on August 16, 2018, 05:08:09 PM
Eric, I do hear your explanation about the Moll shop--and that is as possible as any other explanation. But that explanation seems largely a guess, just like any others. I still haven't heard an argument about why that shop at this time. There sure would be easier ways to "brand" oneself with an association with the Liberty Bell (or the hiding of it in Allentown) than these figures. Why not a bell? I think that's grasping for some event, any event, that might have distinguished Allentown during the period that these figures seem to appear.

I don't mean to say that what you've proposed might not be true. I only mean to say it's far-fetched, but no more far-fetched than any other explanation that's been offered. I feel just stumped.

Note that the only textual evidence we have that MIGHT connect to these engravings is the 1772 reference to a rifle with the name John Newcomer "engraven upon the hind part of the barrel, near the figure of a manhead"--and that doesn't point to Lehigh County or to Moll (but to Lancaster County).
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: T*O*F on August 16, 2018, 07:39:17 PM
If Moll was such a master gunmaker, why does the rifle engraved on the patchbox have a patchbox engraved on the left side of a clearly right handed rifle?  Didn't he know how to engrave a cheek piece?
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Shreckmeister on August 17, 2018, 03:07:54 AM
Is everyone on board with the Attribution of the morphy patch box To John Moll Junior And no possibility of another maker?
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: jdm on August 17, 2018, 03:42:19 AM
[quote author=Shreckmeister
Is everyone on board with the Attribution of the morphy patch box To John Moll Junior And no possibility of another maker?

Rob, At the bottom of the patch box lid .The engraving that looks somewhat like a weird hat. That is on a bunch of Moll patch  boxes and I do mean a bunch. I think that is where they are getting the  attribution. This box was on the cover of a K.R.A. mag. a couple of years ago along with some kind of write up.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Shreckmeister on August 17, 2018, 04:53:05 AM
Thanks Jim. I didn’t know that. So great that folks share on here
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Paul E. Wog on August 17, 2018, 10:20:23 PM

(https://preview.ibb.co/e6HwiK/February_13_2011_039.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gnaSqz)

This pic was from an unsigned flint swivelbreech, it looks very similar to the Stoffel Long attributed box that was posted by Rambling Historian.
Sorry, don't remember where it was :-\
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on August 18, 2018, 12:06:25 AM
Walt O'Connor's Moll box there from the auction and the KRA newsletter very definitely looks to be a John Moll Jr. product as JDM noted.  I don't doubt it at all.  Too bad it's been cut down a bit.

Scott - I will admit that my belief that the 'Lehigh Head' originated with John/Johannes Moll Sr. is largely speculation, but it does have somewhat of an origin in observable basis in that the guns which appear to be the earliest pieces utilizing some form of this 'head' are pieces which are either signed by John Moll or unsigned guns that I personally would attribute to John Moll Sr., and I'd like to think I have a pretty good handle on his work at this point.  Actually I should say the earliest appearing Moll work appears to be concurrent also with something like the Antes swivel breech which seems potentially late War-era or earlier 1780s, so we can't overlook William Antes as well.

I can understand one wanting to include in the discussion the 1772 PA Gazette posting regarding the Newcomer gun, but on the other hand, that likewise is merely a guess:  the 'figure of a manhead' could be many things and there is no way to determine whether or not it has relevance to these Lehigh pieces.  Speaking for myself, while I find the PA Gazette advertisement interesting of course, I would choose to set it outside or at the periphery of this discussion given that we have no way of knowing exactly what is being referenced.  With the Lehigh heads, we have a visual and tangible example of some type of commonality.  All of the pieces illustrating this weird 'liberty head' or 'Indian head' or whatever seem attributable to old Northampton Co and over into eastern Berks, as well as William Antes down in upper Bucks, and they all seem to take a consistent form despite the many different gunmakers that ultimately were using them; this consistency seems to hint at a common origin or common "original" form which was being copied/emulated, and also to my mind seems to indicate a common understanding of some underlying meaning.  Just speaking off the cuff for the moment, I do not ever recall seeing this representation on anything other than these regional arms ca. late 1770s/early 1780s through the early 19th century.  I would therefore tend to speculate that it must have had some form of meaning that was on the more personal side to these regional gunsmiths being as tradesmen engaged in other work in the region did not seem to feel any propensity to include it in their own work.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: jdm on March 03, 2019, 07:19:36 PM
Here is another one to add to the mix. It is on a Lehigh pistol.
Eric, Have you done any research on identifying gunsmiths by the style of the Liberty head?

(https://i.ibb.co/X8t7hYD/IMG-0522.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dgDPdmt)

(https://i.ibb.co/JRKyZp4/IMG-0524.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lz8JKgW)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Robby on March 03, 2019, 10:00:11 PM
Either way, it is a catchy little symbol, having spread to the Genesee Valley school where it is definitely considered to be emblematic of the 'Son's of Liberty'.
Robby
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Seth Isaacson on March 07, 2019, 07:57:29 PM
Either way, it is a catchy little symbol, having spread to the Genesee Valley school where it is definitely considered to be emblematic of the 'Son's of Liberty'.
Robby
Not surprising since they dressed as Indians for the Boston Tea Party.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Shreckmeister on December 10, 2019, 03:23:09 AM
I tend to think this image is a simplified version of an 18th-century lady Columbia. She’s patriotic.I don’t know why German gunsmiths would be Putting an Indian image on their rifles.
The period in which many of these rifles were created was one of the great patriotism
This article supports my position.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/273672/

Columbia: Goddess of America. It seems few Americans are aware of Columbia (feminized version of Columbus) who is the goddess of liberty and the personification of America. As a quasi-mythical figure, Columbia first appears in the poetry of Phillis Wheatley starting in 1776 during the revolutionary war [

(https://i.ibb.co/RQfP682/BDC3-AA53-CE67-4-E62-A019-E43-A535794-F3.png) (https://ibb.co/wpVCQty)

(https://i.ibb.co/YcBH4YW/3-EBD5-F7-E-C826-4-E3-F-B5-B3-3-C66314-E8-E88.png) (https://ibb.co/pfjY6GP)

(https://i.ibb.co/34csvv6/42-DDC0-F3-8810-4-EEC-90-D5-513704-BF2-A38.png) (https://ibb.co/djDcttC)

(https://i.ibb.co/2FnZvZ7/53260-FAB-EB9-E-4800-BCDE-188-FFAF42352.png) (https://ibb.co/Cw1PbP5)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Mike Lyons on December 10, 2019, 04:33:39 AM
You have the arrowhead sideplates that are sort of an Indian image.  I have no clue what the face represents.  Some look like females and some look like Indians and others look like aliens.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Bill Paton on December 10, 2019, 06:14:33 AM
I am in Shreckmeister’s camp on this. I agree a few look like Indian heads, but I believd most were patriotic symbols representing Lady Columbia or Lady Liberty. In my opinion, the “alian” look bespeaks the poor artistic abilities of makers who couldn't draw human figures. Look at all the non-Lehigh representations of human heads on finials, inlays, etc that attempt to represent hunters and such. None are much good. The distinctive hat seen on most Lehigh heads is a real match for Lady Columbia, and for Lady Liberty.

Bill Paton
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: rich pierce on December 10, 2019, 02:47:53 PM
Kind of a side thought: I never understood why “Columbia” would be chosen as the name for Washington D.C.  That article helps and if this symbol or concept or icon was so well known and popular that it would in time be chosen to name our nation’s capital, for me, it leans me more in the direction of thinking the Lehigh symbol is Columbia or Lady Liberty. 
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on December 10, 2019, 04:37:42 PM
The puzzle for me in all this is why would this particular symbol become a "decoration" uniquely on Lehigh county rifles? That is, Lady Liberty or Columbia isn't associated only with Lehigh county at this time. So if it is Lady Liberty, why wouldn't this carving show up on rifles all over the place?
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on December 10, 2019, 05:23:31 PM
The puzzle for me in all this is why would this particular symbol become a "decoration" uniquely on Lehigh county rifles? That is, Lady Liberty or Columbia isn't associated only with Lehigh county at this time. So if it is Lady Liberty, why wouldn't this carving show up on rifles all over the place?

That's the $100,000 question!

For the purposes of discussion I would tend to set aside those found in neighboring eastern Berks Co., and these tend to be much more whimsical in nature and perhaps more artistic license than representation.  Peter Angstadt in particular seems to have adopted a cruciform shape which may represent Jesus, or something else entirely.  A couple unsigned pieces clearly are meant to be Indians.  And many if not most of the Berks pieces are what I would view as second or third 'generation' i.e. those seen on Stophel Long's work, he being considerably younger than the origins of the symbol (or I should say, 'apparent' origins) in NH County.  Possibly, by the early 19th century, the underlying meaning or the "why" may have given way to simply an expected decorative form.  All speculation on my part.

Broken record:  the earliest I have seen are either Moll work or potentially Wm. Antes (the swivel breech), although the dating of both is in question.  Moll's work is tough to date and so is the swivel breech.  What appears to be the earliest in my opinion is the Levi Wells pistol, the brass barrel of which seems to have been cast by Moll and is stamped underneath with both "Moll" as well as the liberty figure.  I find it interesting that the figure on that pistol is hidden under or along the side of the barrel, and is stamped almost as a 'trademark.'  The pistol generally is taken to be late War-era or possibly immediately thereafter, and it is believed Wells may have passed through or near Allentown sometime between Sept. and Dec. 1781 while commanding a cattle drive from CT and/or Long Island to Frederickburg VA.  He was already a Colonel at this point and it seems likely that he acquired it at this time.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Joe Stein on December 10, 2019, 09:44:49 PM
"I find it interesting that the figure on that pistol is hidden under or along the side of the barrel, and is stamped almost as a 'trademark.' "
I wonder if maybe that is the whole reason for it being mainly a Lehigh  thing, it started as a sort of trademark, and was known as such by people around them.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Dietle on January 28, 2020, 04:59:15 AM
Ben Troutman of far eastern Somerset County, Pennsylvania used these too.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Karl Kunkel on July 04, 2023, 03:42:53 AM
I know I'm resurrecting an old string.  I found this image of a Red Men's Lodge participating in a welcome home parade, on Sept 6, 1919 for troops returning from WWI in New Cumberland PA.

Their head dress closely resemble that of the Lehigh Indian Head, Liberty Cap.  I'm not familiar with this fraternal organization.

The image is from a paperback my father had titled "Pictorial History of the West Shore Area", published by the Cumberland County 250th Anniversary Committee.  The image was credited courtesy of Joyce Bergman Hill.

(https://i.ibb.co/3kHmBy2/Lehigh-Indianhead-Liberty-Cap.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YbGBp7m)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on July 04, 2023, 03:48:18 PM
That is quite interesting, especially given that they tie their origins back to 'secret societies' assembled prior to and during the War.

http://redmen.org/redmen/info/ (http://redmen.org/redmen/info/)
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: Sequatchie Rifle on July 04, 2023, 04:52:10 PM
Interesting. I’ve noticed their symbol on headstones. Never really knew much about them. They were active on the Cumberland Plateau in Tennessee when I was growing up.
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: jdm on July 05, 2023, 04:15:06 PM
there website says one of the  societies was  " The Sons Of Liberty ".  Karl thank you for posting this information.  It's another path to research.  Jim
Title: Re: The Lehigh Indian Head
Post by: spgordon on July 05, 2023, 04:34:49 PM
Here's the Red Men's parade in Bethlehem in 1920.

(https://i.ibb.co/2ktRbMd/Redmen.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jrMqpwD)