AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: clayton707 on September 22, 2011, 08:37:01 PM
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Hello,
I decided that based on my research online to jump and buy a Baker Rifle parts list from the Rifle Shoppe. This will be my first experience with putting together a flintlock firearm, and so may need some advice periodically. I think that if I can build the "most accurate" model of the 17th century Swedish warship in the world, I can probably put together a Baker.
I have formulated a question already. Where can you get an authentic sling for a Baker, and if you cant get authentic ones, where can you get something close that is the right width?
Already started the powder horn for it. I shaped the plug like the breech end of one of the types of cannon that Vasa carried. (I know different period and country, but I liked the idea) I added a section for the assmebly of my Baker to my webstite. (You can see my other work if you click on "home" at the top of the page.
https://sites.google.com/site/clayton707/home/baker-rifle-project
Thanks in advance for all the help I will get here! :)
Clayton Johnson
Minnesota
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Clayton, welcome to the ALR. You've chosen quite a challenge for your first rifle, but you have come to the right place. I would recommend you do a search on both the Baker rifle, and also the Rifle shoppe, for some background info, and tips on both the rifle, and dealing with the shop. I don't do this to discourage you but to give you a heads up the their supply line is sometimes quite slow, as a lot of component sets are cast when ordered, and may not be in stock. The best advice is to be persistent with phone contact, and call to check availability of the Baker parts set. From checking your site, it appears you have the skills. Good luck.
Bill
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Thanks for your welcome Bill!
I did buy a book that has a section on the Baker; "British Military Flintlock Rifles, 1740-1840". I am thinking this should have some good information.
I notice the main complaint about TRS is the wait on orders. That being said though, every time I read someones comments about them here and other places, they pretty much always say their quality is superb. I feel I can deal with a wait if it means I get great parts to build a historically accurate rifle with.
I have been waiting almost 6 weeks now, and they said it should be shipping this week. I am very excited to start!
Cheers!
Clayton
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My interest in the Baker Rifle is what got me started in flintlocks, although I don't have a Baker Rifle yet. :(
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(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6061.jpg)
I built TRS's Baker rifle and found it to be an excellent rifle. It's easy to shoot, and light to carry. The build went without a hitch. I had some fitting to do with the spring that secures the iron rammer, though. "British Military Flintlock Rifles" was a great help to get it right. A friend of mine in New Zealand built one too, and his looks great.
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Taylor,
That is an absolutely beautiful rifle! I hope mine turns out that nice. I really like all of the brass on the Baker and find it attractive because of that.
I just might have to ask you some questions about this project soon!
Oh, and how do you post pictures here?
Thanks!
Clayton
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Clayton, there's a good tutorial in that forum on how to post pictures. Thanks for the compliments.
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Taylor, got any more pictures - a brief set of pictures "as you went along with the build" would help, I'm sure?
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Here are a few pictures of the work that I have done on my powder horn.
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/3.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/5.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/2.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/7.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/Scrimshaw.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/DSCN4721.jpg)
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D. Taylor Sapergia, that is one impressive build.
I have been trying for a while to get details of that ramrod retaining spring that you mention.
All those I have contacted with original Bakers have had civilian or Volunteer versions which were different to the Ordnance version and had no such device.
Could you let me know the design and dimensions?
Thanks,
Peter.
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Here's a few pictures I took during this build. The first is the parts set as received, except that each parts group was in its own blue zip-lock bag...there were a lot of them. That kept things organized so it was clear which screws went with which assemblies, etc.
The lock was a set of parts. It made up into a very nice and serviceable lock, but I had to re-arch the mainspring, to remove most of the negative bend, and to give it some power. None of the springs or other parts, are heat treated, and all are 'as cast' with sprues and flashing.
The ramrod retaining spring is about 1 5/8" long and has a hole in the fixed end for the screw that secures the front extension of the trigger guard. This spring is fitted inside the trigger guard's front extension. It was a little tricky to fit, and get the tension just right against the rammer. The inboard end of the rammer has a ring that is a little larger than the rest of the rod, to catch this spring. But it also works with the wooden rod I made for the rifle for hunting, which has no such ring.
I'll try to answer any other questions about this set, and build, if I can.
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN5948.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN5987.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN5990.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6009.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6010.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6011.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6012.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6014.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6015.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6016.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6020.jpg)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2FBaker%2FDSCN6021.jpg&hash=ddf79ce50341cc750c066551841ee9e30e20372d)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6022.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6023.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6024.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6025.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6026.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6033-1.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6035.jpg)
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(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2FBaker%2FPicture1.png&hash=1de5a2963ed736eaa0d33ba751d3c2478f2e84ec)
This is a picture of the spring as it arrived. It's a little bigger, in the picture, than full scale.
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COOL!
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D. Taylor Sapergia, thanks for the picture. Just what I needed.
Peter.
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Thanks for the pictures! I am sure they will help.
How did you engrave that date and your name on the barrel?
Thanks.
Clayton
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Taylor's out shooting the trail right now. To answer your question, he uses engravers with a chasing hammer for all of his engraving.
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In this case, I used a die sinker's chisel and a light home-made chasing hammer. This barrel is polished to 180 grit abrasive cloth, and then browned. All evidence of the lengthwise "scratches" have disappeared with the browning, which is perfectly even and dark, and in the steel rather than on it.
...great day shooting my .40 cal Kuntz rifle!
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Thanks. I probably wont engrave anything into mine, but the tools you used to do your very nice looking engraving seem quite simple.
I suppose you drew what you wanted on the barrel with a pencil of some sort before engraving.
Cheers!
Clayton
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Yes, it's probably a confidence thing...
I dissolve white tempera powdered paint in a little water, making it into a paste. I place the paste into a very small brass vessel with a tight fitting lid, like a percussion cap tin only brass. I left the lid off until all the water evaporated, and then I have a hard cake of water soluble paint. I simply wet the tip of my finger, rub it on the cake, and then on the steel. It leaves a very thin white film that dries quickly. Then I draw my design with a soft pencil, and cut it with the chisel. It's pretty much that simple.
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Yes, it's probably a confidence thing...
I think this is true with most things that a person can build!
Thanks for your explanation. Still not sure if I will engrave anything, but I know how now if I decide to.
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Taylor,
What was your method for making your metal parts shiny? I just got some of the small metal parts today, and I guess the rest is coming in a separate box.
Another question while I am writing. I notice there is no hole at the front end of the lock, but in your pictures of it installed on the stock, there is a small fastener there. Is this the only thing that holds the lock to the stock, and where did you get the fastening? It doesn't appear to be in my set of parts.
Thanks!
Clayton
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Clayton best of luck to you on your project. I highly suggest that you purchase a book on gun building, such as "Recreating the American Longrifle". While not specific to the Baker rifle, it will take you through many of the basics of gunbuilding which are common to most muzzleloaders, and will answer many of the questions that will arise from your first build. This forum is an invaluable resource and will greatly help you with your project, but there are many topics that will be difficult to explain clearly or properly demonstrate in this format. A good book will explain in much greater detail the minutia of gun building and will only increase the likelihood of your first project being a success. I look forward to seeing updates about the progress of your rifle.
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Thanks!
I did buy the book "British Military Flintlock Rifles 1740-1840" which has a section on the baker. I am thinking that the book you mention could be a great help also, since it is more geared toward actually putting a muzzle loading flintlock together, rather than just listing specifications and going over history.
Clayton
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OK. I did find the answer for part of my question on how Taylor got his metal parts so shiny from one of his other posts. Sounds like he sanded them down to 1,200 grit and then finished with 0000 steel wool.
I wonder what grit he started at though. He did mention 280.
Also, I do notice there is a hole in the front end of the Baker locks in my "British Military Flintlock Rifles". I am thinking that fastener must be in with the rest of the set.
A couple pictures from my set of parts. Hope to get the other box of goodies this week.
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/DSCN4774.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/DSCN4782.jpg)
Cheers!
Clayton
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There are two "lock bolts" that hold the lock on. They are the two large headed screws in the bag next to the brass side plate in your picture. The side plate must be clearance drilled for them to pass through from the left side of the stock, and the lock plate is drilled and tapped for them. One enters the lock in the front of the plate as you have already noticed. The second one enters the lock plate behind the pan (it's location is hidden by the cock when it is in the down position). Their proper location is critical so they do not interfere with the barrel and/or ramrod.
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Note that Taylor also re-cut the engraving on the lock parts were required, after filing, sanding and polishing.
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Thanks! It is becoming apparent that there is more to this than I thought there would be! I will have to research how to tap holes for threads. It will be another thing that will be a first, but I am willing and eager to learn. Where do you get your tools for tapping?
I wonder if I could get away with just polishing my lock, instead of sanding and re-engraving it.
Clayton
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Clayton, here's the sequence for polishing any of your parts, brass and steel. First, in the case of the lock, you file everything flat and true. Then you use abrasive cloth to remove the file marks, using a file or piece of wood to back the abrasive. Start with 80 grit, then 120, 180, 220, 280, 320, 400, 600. You can go for a mirror polish with 800, 1000, 1200, but it's a military rifle, so I didn't bother. For the barrel, 180 grit polishing lengthwise with a block of pine carved into a concave shape. Bakers barrels were browned, and 180 grit is lots fine enough.
Flintfan is correct. The lock gets two holes drilled with a tap drill, and the holes are threaded for the lock "nails".
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Thanks for your explanation! I think this will help a lot.
Another one for you Taylor. What size tap die did you use to cut the threads for the lock bolts? And, you drill a regular hole first, correct? If so, what size twist bit did you use for that?
And...how does the breech plug fit to the barrel? Is it welded or brazed? I am thinking that the bayonet lug and the sights must be brazed to the barrel.
I hope I don't get too tiring with all of my questions.
Clayton
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clayton, the people here are glad to answer your questions, but you would be doing yourself a good book or two that has been recommended here and reading them thoroughly. for example, the breech plug is threaded into the barrel and it gets pretty hard to fully explain it in this situation. also go the tutorials, there are many excellent entries there. good luck and happy building. mark
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Thanks! I did buy the book "Recreating the American Longrifle."
I tend to like to research and envision how things are going to go together, but it will probably become more clear once I have my complete parts set and this book.
I had seen other guns with a threaded breech plug, but wasnt sure if the Baker had this set up too.
Thanks.
Clayton
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I thought all real rifles had threaded breech plugs - what other kind are there if not threaded?
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Wouldnt know! I am very new at this, and am having fun learning.
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I think you might be looking at just the hooked breech tang without the actual plug. Yes, the breech plug itself is threaded and is screwed into the breech of the barrel. There is a hook at the back of the plug which fits into the square recess in the tang. I've never built a TRS baker rifle so I don't know how they supply the actual plug, or if it is already fit to the barrel. On the M. 1776 rifle I built from TRS the barrel came supplied with a standard one piece breech plug and tang which I had to shape into a hooked plug so I could fit it to the original design hooked tang. The plug is probably coming with the barrel.
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Yes, that is exactly what I was looking at! Interesting to know how it hooks together, and thanks.
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Since my shop lacks any tap and die tools, can anyone recommend a good set that would work well for building this Baker, and possibly other gun projects?
I am thinking I will go with high speed steel. Sounds like the carbon steel alternative is less expensive, but much more breakable.
Thanks!
Clayton
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I wouldn't bother with a set, as you probably will not use 95 % of them. The two most common are 8-32, and 10 32. Go to your local nut, and bolt supply house, and get like 3 each taps and 2 drill bits in that size. As for taps for touch hole liners, the Chambers white lightning's come with bit, and tap. The reason I recommend at least three, is the same as dry balling a muzzleloader. It's not a matter of if, but when you will break one of the taps. With that I recommend doing a search on this site about removing a broken tap. The other thing you will need is cutting fluid for the tapping. There's nothing really hard about tapping but a little practice helps a lot.
Bill
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Oh, You haven't lived until you have to extract a broken tap from an irreplaceable gun part ;D ;D ;D
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I imagine it might be a little like extracting a stuck 30-06 shell casing from a resizing die while reloading!
That has happened to me a couple times, and just a few dirty words left my mouth...
;D
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Stuck brass is nothing in comparrison to a broken tap. The odd time, very odd time, the tap comes out easily. Brass removal is a 5 minute job, tops.
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I worked on polishing my Baker lock today as I wait for the other parts to arrive. I hope it is soon!
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/Polished_Lock.jpg)
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Clayton:
I'm a new member of this forum myself, and I was really glad to find your posting. I've been considering ordering a Baker parts set from TRS for about a year, but I just haven't pulled the trigger yet, so I'll be following your progress with bated breath.
Incidentally, I used to have a Baker rifle that TRS built for me, and yes, I had to wait two years for it, and it cost almost three times what the parts set costs, but it was truly a thing of beauty. The quality of the workmanship was unparalleled, and it shot beautifully. So, TRS's quality is unquestioned. You just have to have a little patience. Best of luck.
Dan T
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While I LOVE TRS parts, and they are good folks. But when I talk to folks about ordering parts I always tell them to expect it to take a year. The Ferguson parts are the only parts sets I ever get in 6 weeks. Generally about 12 weeks I start emailing them weekly for status. Typically they respond to every 3rd email.
Great folks, GREAT parts, slower than Christmas
Looking forward to your Baker project. One thing, a lot of folks talk about "straight as a ramrod". Most military firelocks with metal ramrods the ramrod is sprung or slightly curved (bend it slightly across your belly) and that is what keeps them in place. I have handled a number of original bakers (Mexico had them at the Alamo and San Jacinto) and none of them have a ramrod retaining spring, but most of the rammers are slightly sprung
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Here's a few pictures I took during this build. The first is the parts set as received, except that each parts group was in its own blue zip-lock bag...there were a lot of them. That kept things organized so it was clear which screws went with which assemblies, etc.
The lock was a set of parts. It made up into a very nice and serviceable lock, but I had to re-arch the mainspring, to remove most of the negative bend, and to give it some power. None of the springs or other parts, are heat treated, and all are 'as cast' with sprues and flashing.
The ramrod retaining spring is about 1 5/8" long and has a hole in the fixed end for the screw that secures the front extension of the trigger guard. This spring is fitted inside the trigger guard's front extension. It was a little tricky to fit, and get the tension just right against the rammer. The inboard end of the rammer has a ring that is a little larger than the rest of the rod, to catch this spring. But it also works with the wooden rod I made for the rifle for hunting, which has no such ring.
I'll try to answer any other questions about this set, and build, if I can.
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN5948.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN5987.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN5990.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6009.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6010.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6011.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6012.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6014.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6015.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6016.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6020.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6021.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6022.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6023.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6024.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6025.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6026.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6033-1.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6035.jpg)
Very, very nice job indeed. Perfection here is everpresent.
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Dan: I should have the rest of my Baker kit this week or next. I am looking forward to starting!
Bryan and Glenn: Thanks for the tip on the bowing of the ramrod; very interesting indeed! Nothing like original examples to look at and study. I will try to install the spring, but if it doesn't work out I will keep the bowing option in mind.
Cheers!
Clayton
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Finally got most of the rest of my parts today! There was some confusion and I was led to believe they were going to arrive many weeks ago..
Here are a couple pics, along with my finished powder horn. Just cleaned up, put together and installed the castings tonight.
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/Baker_Parts2.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/Finished_Horn.jpg)
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Clayton, you're off to the races. But don't worry about coming in last in that race. Take your time - a period ship modeller has lots of patience.
The Baker is of course, a military rifle, but I could not resist the urge to fill the walnut and give everything a workmanlike finish. They make up into a very nice and serviceable rifle.
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So Clayton, how long was your wait?
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Thanks Taylor!
Yes, I would like to do a good job, so taking my time on this will be best. I am glad I just bought a bench top grinder. It is very handy for getting rid of sprues and evening things out.
I placed the order for my Baker in August, so it has been awhile. Apparently the people that run TRS had a death in their family, which set them back a bit.
The parts came just in time for me to go on leave from work for the rest of December!
Cheers!
Clayton
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And my finished bayonet. It was a lot of work filing that blade smooth!
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/Baker_Bayonet.jpg)
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Congrats, Clayton. And great job on the bayonet! You did that fast. I have a question for you, though, and for all those other gun builders watching this thread: why does the stock come with that unfinished block in the middle? I've seen that on several semi-finished stocks and I'm just curious.
Best of luck with the Baker project. I'll be eagerly watching your progress.
Yours,
Dan
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Thanks Dan! I did work that out quickly, but it was two whole days of work. (I am on leave from my real job until January)
I think the idea with the unfinished block is so that you can have a square part of the stock to easily clamp it in a vice so that you can work on it, and the vice jaws wont mar up the parts of the stock that are closer to being finished.
Not so sure how it works out with every job you have to do on the stock, but it probably helps with at least some of them.
Cheers!
Clayton
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I finished fitting the butt plate and patch box parts to the stock.
It seems that I got a very good fit for it being my first attempt at this! I am very happy with the results...
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/Open_Patchbox.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/Buttplate_patchbox1-1.jpg)
I guess inletting the breech tang, fitting the barrel etc. is next, but have to get my breech plug first..
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I am formulating a few questions as I proceed with my build.
The first is regarding barrels. What is the method that gun builders use to mark the center line of the barrel for attaching sights? I can find the center line easily at the breech end by marking the center of the breech tang, but the other end is kind of a mystery.
Also, has anyone used silver solder already mixed with flux for attaching sights? Any advice on how to use it? I did buy Brownells heat stop paste, and it looks like it works well to stop heat transfer on a couple practice pieces of metal that I put together. If I use this on my barrel while silver soldering sights will I still have to worry about the barrel warping?
Thanks!
Clayton
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OK, kind of answered one of my own questions by looking around on the internet...
Brownells sells a "Top dead center punch". Looks simple enough to use. I ordered one, since I think that getting the sights properly centered is a very important thing.
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Clayton,
I would not use silver braze on the barrel. Hobyiest silver solder which melts somewhere around 500 degrees will work fine. To find the barrel center, level the breech end and then hold a level on a file. You can then run the file over the barrel while level to mark the forwrd sight or lugs.
Jim
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Thanks Jim!
I will use a lower melting point solder. I guess since it takes half to a full a minute to load this thing and shoot again, the barrel will probably never get hot enough to melt it.
I like that method for finding the center too, and I learn about it after I bought a fancy tool to do the same basic thing! Oh well, can never have too many tools right?
Cheers!
Clayton
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Not sure low temp silver will hold the bayonette, though. Just a thought. I don't think it would take much of a poke with the bayonette, for the lug to break free.
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The Baker's sights are set in shallow dovetails, and do not need to be soldered to the barrel.
The bayonette lug is filed and polished to the same contour as the muzzle of the barrel, and I hard soldered it to the barrel with silver solder. I got no scaling in the bore, and the rifle has had no ill effects from the dull red heat. It was easy to heat since it was right at the muzzle. I wouldn't think of doing that in the middle of the barrel. The bayonette is heavy and the point is a long way out there. The lug would not survive attachment with anything less than hard solder, in my opinion.
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6054-1.jpg)
(https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Baker/DSCN6055.jpg)
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Taylor,
I have a customer in South Africa that wants a Twigg lock to use on a Baker representation.
I have been kicking an idea around about making new,forged mainsprings for existing Twigg locks and am wondering IF the sear and full cock notch would hold up to a more energetic spring. The point of the sear and the full cock would be taking the full thrust of the spring until the lock was fired. The lock I make for the South African fellow will have my benchcrafted mechanism.This is just a thought right now. I seem to remember a note you sent me about a Twigg but maybe I have the wrong man. I never dial a wrong number on the phone but get a lot of people I don't know and never did know.{:>)
Bob Roller
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Thanks for the advice on the sights! And that a very good idea for the bayonet lug. I am glad that even with getting it red hot, the barrel did not suffer ill effects. I will be more confident putting my lug on now with silver solder.
I have been working very hard on my Baker. I am on leave from work and so have had a lot of time to work on it. I have been putting in 10+ hour days. I guess when a person does that, it gets done fast, even though I am still taking my time and thinking about every move and its consequences.
Here are a couple more pics of my progress. I installed the lock. I got the lock bolts very square and the tapped holes in the lock in the right spot and done well. The lock sits on the stock nicely and makes a nice spark as the trigger is squeezed from full cock.
Very happy and excited about how things are going, especially considering it is my first try at this.
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/SidePlate.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/Lock_Installed.jpg)
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And here are 6 pictures of my finished Baker rifle. I found that by studying the diagram that TRS sent and listening to your advice, putting this together ended up being not as difficult as I originally thought it might be.
I am very happy with the results and am excited to take it out and burn some powder. (I did already put a light test charge through it with no ball.) Now, I have to figure out what kind of gun to build next. This hobby is growing on me!
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz470%2FClayjo707%2FBaker%2520rifle%2520project%2FPatchbox_Lock_etc.jpg&hash=0ad58153425c24eb015ef596d9981a1ee126a7b9)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz470%2FClayjo707%2FBaker%2520rifle%2520project%2FMuzzle.jpg&hash=7bf6a98904e6d217b1e57019cd3402d0ce80440e)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz470%2FClayjo707%2FBaker%2520rifle%2520project%2FLockSide.jpg&hash=f19b804e546fb147b20f93713912fe16baf5159a)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz470%2FClayjo707%2FBaker%2520rifle%2520project%2FLockPlate_RearSight.jpg&hash=a2a2305a43ab350919b6fcf3aafd87f5c1d169b8)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz470%2FClayjo707%2FBaker%2520rifle%2520project%2FFixed_bayonet.jpg&hash=2103280f179b4689c1f9ca81d8b9b1d7edeaae2a)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz470%2FClayjo707%2FBaker%2520rifle%2520project%2FButtplate.jpg&hash=1b5d77952a85fb9f2a4431a265973f47e1a5a52a)
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That Baker is an elegant looking rifle and one to be proud of. I have to make another Twigg lock for a man in South Africa that wants to make a Baker. Did you use cast parts for the external parts and if so,where did you get them?
Anyway,a fine job well done.
Bob Roller
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Bob,
Thanks, I am proud of it! The parts came from The Rifle Shoppe.
http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/english_arms/baker_rifles.htm
Good luck on your Twigg lock!
Clayton
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Clayton, congratulations on a successful conclusion. You'll really like shooting the Baker.
There are two things that come to mind upon viewing your rifle. First, your front sight is in backwards. And secondly, I read in de Witt's book that the barrels were browned, not left bright.
How does the bayonet fit? Some precise filing required there.
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Clayton,
I started the Twigg lock project last summer and had bought external parts for 10 of them.
I listed them on the BP-L list and 9 people out of nearly 1200 bought them all. I sent number 8 to Delaware this morning. By American standards,these are expensive at $300 each but it seems as though the 9 that ordered them knew what they were getting. I make a variant of the mechanism of the Alex Henry caplocks and it works slick and fast.
The South African will get number 11 but he furnished the external parts and wants double set triggers as well.
Again,congratulations on the Baker,a job well done.
Bob Roller
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Taylor: Thanks! I am very happy with it. You are right, the front sight is backwards. I must have had sight dyslexia or something when I installed it! Oh well, turning it around in it's dovetail wont be a big deal.
You are also right that historically these Baker barrels would be browned. I am thinking I am going to leave mine bright, since I like the look of the shiny version. I know not historically accurate, but maybe I will change my mind sometime. Also, like you, I sealed the pores of the wood on the stock with a modern finish, so I departed a little with historical accuracy there too.
The bayonet was kind of a trick to get it to fit, but it fits well. The lug itself had to have both its height and width filed a bit to get it to insert into the sword handle sufficiently and reach the catch on the inside of the handle. I also had to file the side of the noseplate down a bit, and a little wood off of the side of the stock to get the bayonet to slide on once the barrel was installed. I also noticed that to install the barrel, and get the front barrel lugs for the barrel keys down far enough to line up with their respective holes, I had to remove some wood in the barrel groove of the stock around the area where the lug is for the front sling swivel. Not sure if everyone that builds this kit has to do this or if the stock was just not carved like others.
Bob: Sounds like you are busy with your locks! I think that I would have no problem paying $300 for an assembled lock, if I knew it was quality and the springs and frizzen were tempered right. Better than getting a piece of junk that wont spark, and wont help fire your gun properly. It seems this is about the price that TRS wants for assembled locks. You can get a set of lock castings there too, and maybe if you talked to them you could get a partial set as well.
Thanks for your support and encouragement through this. I can see myself making another historic firearm of some type.
Clayton
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Clayton,
Your good work on such an unusual rifle deserves recognition. Can you post a picture close up of the lock?? I have had a small experience with TRS years ago when I ordered two sets of external parts for left an right handed sporting flint locks. It took nine months to get them and I posted about this before,it is a mistake to use an antique lock for a master to make moulds with UNLESS it is one in exceptionaly fine condition as is the one used for the Twigg locks that I am making. I have had a lot of experience in actually making locks and these two sets took me to the limits of know how and skill levels I have.
The Twigg is the largest lock I have made and it lends its size to a fancy Alex Henry style of internal parts,something I'm familiar with.
If you need to contact me,my E mail is <wvgzr@webtv.net> or after 6PM EST 1-304-429-2454.I live in Huntington,WV. I do reply to any E mail that is a real inquiry or question.
I have called TRS from time to time and sometimes they would answer sometimes not and they rarely if ever had what I needed.The pretty catalog and the empty shelf are mismatched but I also realize that it would take a fortune for the two to match.
Bob Roller
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Thanks! For a first rifle build, I am happy to be getting so many compliments from experienced builders!
Here is a close up of the lock. If you want one of it on the rifle, I can do that too, just let me know.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz470%2FClayjo707%2FBaker%2520rifle%2520project%2FPolished_Lock.jpg&hash=732669f4a994358aee993cfde38665fc1bf54016)
TRS is slow, and the wait is long, but generally the quality seems very good. If a newbie like me can build a rifle like this from one of their kits, they must know their stuff.
I also would think that it would be a mistake to cast parts from a rifle that is in bad condition. Much better to find one in mint condition that has rarely been used and been taken care of through the centuries.
Clayton
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Clayton.
Thanks fo the picture of the lock,it is a beauty.
Can you send a picture of the innards because that is the engine that drives the beast.Also length and height of plate.
I am not a gun maker in any sense of the word but I do know good work when I see it. I can make a useable,semi presentable rifle but my specialty is locks with triggers as a sort of "tag along"item. The locks and triggers keep me as busy as I want to be at nearly 76 years of age so rifle making is rare for me.
Bob Roller
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Bob,
I am a young pup compared to you, and probably compared to most here. I am only 32. I find this is true with my model shipbuilding hobby also. But, I learn a lot by listening to older people.
The lock is 5 3/8" long overall. The maximum height, which looks to be directly behind the pan, is 1 1/16". The shorter front end (right before it starts curving upward towards the pan at 7/8" from the very front) is 5/8" in height.
Here is a picture of the other side of the lock:
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz470%2FClayjo707%2FBaker%2520rifle%2520project%2FDSCN4786.jpg&hash=bf12c5ab3f6007d1fe28bafd3ab98334206da89b)
Enjoy!
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And a picture of my Baker displayed on a wall in my house. I like the looks of it better than my M1 display. (Notice the corrected front sight.)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz470%2FClayjo707%2FBaker%2520rifle%2520project%2FBakerDisplay.jpg&hash=08bd3971b624d1efab4a37007e8481b70147d8d9)
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Very nice looking set Clayton.
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I have had a small experience with TRS years ago when I ordered two sets of external parts for left an right handed sporting flint locks. It took nine months to get them and I posted about this before,it is a mistake to use an antique lock for a master to make moulds with UNLESS it is one in exceptionaly fine condition ....
I have called TRS from time to time and sometimes they would answer sometimes not and they rarely if ever had what I needed.The pretty catalog and the empty shelf are mismatched but I also realize that it would take a fortune for the two to match.
Bob Roller
Bob,
In my limited experience TRS is improving. When I ordered my Ferguson kit from TRS six years ago they charged my credit card (nearly) immediately for the full amount and it was a few months before the rifle was shipped. I was a little worried at the time, But they did send the kit eventually. When I had questions it was hard at times to get them on the phone but once I did they took all the time necessary to answer my questions. I had some very dumb, newbie questions and they have always be very gracious and patient.
I didn't order a bayonet for the Fergie originally and now that the gun is finally built I decided it needed one for it to be "complete". When I put in the order with TRS this time I looked for the charge on the next months credit card statement - it wasn't there. I was beginning to worry that they lost the order and then three months later the charge is noted on my statement. A week after that the bayonet was in my mailbox.
Maybe they just didn't have a good lock to work from in your case. I am new to this so take my impressions with a grain of salt but I think the quality of the parts they made for my rifle was excellent.
Oh yea, Clayton, that rifle looks really fine. I have read most of the Sharpe's series so have a soft spot in my heart for Baker Rifles, it is a real treat to see detailed pictures of what they looked like. Thanks for sharing pictures of your build.
Steve
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Thanks Taylor and Bob! The Sharpe's series was a big inspiration to me when it came to deciding to build a Baker. Now that I have done it, I want to build another, maybe something similar to the wheelocks found onboard the 17th century Swedish warship Vasa.
Clayton
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Hey Clayton, I believe that I am one of the youngest members of the forum since I am only 17. I have built a snaphaunce lock and the rest of the musket except the barrel. and I have thought about building a boat later in life like one of the merchant ships sailed to williamsburg Va. It is a rather ambitious Idea but I believe that I could do it eventually!
Ill have to say that you did a great job on all aspects of the build and that the finish quality is above that of the origionals. Thumbs up on your work, I have always wanted a baker but have not had the means to make one yet!
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Thanks!
I think that is great! We always need new blood in these kinds of hobbies if they are to survive, and it is encouraging to know that not all 17 year olds are only interested in girls and video games!
Your interest in ship building is great also!
I started building model ships when I was about 10, built my first plank on frame scratch build when I was 15, and am now just completing what the research staff at the Vasa museum in Stockholm thinks is the most accurate model of Vasa in the world. (link to that below)
Keep up your work also!
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A few pictures of my wife and I shooting the new Baker...
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/BakerShooting5.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/BakerShooting3.jpg)
(https://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/Clayjo707/Baker%20rifle%20project/BakerShooting2.jpg)
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And a video of me shooting my new Baker....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8C2vm8LQR8&feature=youtu.be
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And a video of me shooting my new Baker....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8C2vm8LQR8&feature=youtu.be
DID YOU JUST POUR POWDER DIRECTLY FROM THE HORN INTO THE BARREL????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????////// :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o EVER SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A SPARK GETS PAST A SYKES FLAME PROOF VALVE ON A FLASK????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
KABOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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as in "w--w-where'd me bloddy finners go?"
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If THAT horn is full, it would be where did my head and chest go?!
volatpluvia
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I keep a very small amount of powder in in the horn when I do that. Even then, I suppose using a measure is better.