AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Teun on September 27, 2011, 09:00:20 PM
-
All, I have a question regarding gunsmiths who were Amish. First, were there any? I have my suspicions that there had to have been some Amish making early rifles in PA. Also, what are the names of these builders (assuming there are a few)? Thanks for the knowledge!!
All the best,
Tim
-
This is from a Cowan's Auction.
"A huge surprise of the auction came with the sale of a half stock percussion rifle made by Ruben Yutzy, Holmes County, Ohio’s only local Amish gunsmith. Yutzy lived from 1819 through 1899 and flourished between 1839 and 1875. This particular gun was estimated to bring in $15/2500 but commanded attention when it hammered in for $24,150. Whether it was the rarity and local ties to Ohio Amish Country or the allure of the intricate detailing, bidders were willing to lay down big bucks to acquire this rifle. "
-
Allen Martin........................Don
-
You beat me to the draw, Bro. Don!
I think it's a little funny that the Pennsylvania Amish that I'm familiar with will drive a buggy to the woods then deer hunt with the most modern scoped rifle you can find :o
-
Isn't he Mennonite?
FK
-
He was born and reared Old Order Amish, but converted to Mennonite when he reached adulthood. Wife, too, I'm pretty sure. This I do know....you won't find a finer couple than the Martins! I count myself lucky to know them!
-
Thanks a million guys!
-
Pouncy
Does Martin sound Amish ??
I was born & raised Mennonite or as we were called in the ol day ... Swissers as we are from Bern Switzlerland .
My family never left the Lancaster Co area ... and many still live there today .
Allen
-
Now Allen, you or either Dave Dodds told me years ago that you were originally Old Order Amish, and I'm 98% sure that it was YOU, because at the time I got a good laugh out of you telling me about the magazines you and the other....never mind...I better not go there ;D Anyhow, I'm proud to have you as a friend!
-
By golly Allen, if you were to tack Amish made to your wares you should expect at least another 25% :-X ;)
-
Old order Amish in Northern In are open buggy Amish with a big black umbrella the rest ride in comfort in a closed buggy with a catalictic gas heater. Some of the churches in this area even allow electricity and cars. And of course they don't go anywhere without their cell phone
-
Let's get back on track, Teun's question was whether there were Amish gunmakers. The Amish, like the Quakers were pacifists, but that would not have prevented gunmakers, They were also a self sufficient within there community as much as possible, much like the Moravians.
Bill
-
I understand that they are pacifists, but they hunted. This doesn't answer as to were there, but I know an Amish man now who builds longrifles.
-
Pouncy
Does Martin sound Amish ??
I was born & raised Mennonite or as we were called in the ol day ... Swissers as we are from Bern Switzlerland .
My family never left the Lancaster Co area ... and many still live there today .
Allen
If you want to have some fun Bring up the white pages on your computer and type in "Martin" Lebanon Pa. or Lancaster pa. and start counting. There are...... one or two ;D!
-
Let's get back on track, Teun's question was whether there were Amish gunmakers. The Amish, like the Quakers were pacifists, but that would not have prevented gunmakers, They were also a self sufficient within there community as much as possible, much like the Moravians.
Exactly. Especially if they were building rifles, which weren't, for the most part, considered weapons of war until the Revolution (when there were rifle companies formed and rifles requisitioned by state governments for outfitting troops).
-
This is bascally why I was asking...since the Amish hunted (and still do), and given their renown as craftsmen I initially thought that there must have been builders in the Amish community. But when I read I don't find much at all. Of course, would the Amish build heavily engraved/carved pieces? Probably not as this would be too fancy for them...but maybe for customers? I don't know...but it is a subject that fascinates me.
Thanks for all the info guys!
-
Hummm...theres a good book on the history and building of "Pennsylvania Dutch Furniture". It starts out talking about P/D faith, gunsmithing, metal and conestoga wagon working etc...then goes on to traditional furniture designs and patterns...I will see if it mentions any gun makers names?
tca
-
Don't confuse the Amish with the Pennsylvania Dutch. The Amish started in Switzerland. The Pennsylvania Dutch are settlers from Germany or Duetschland. We here in York county, of German decent, refer to ourselves as York County Dutchman, and both my Granddads spoke Pennsylvania Dutch and don't think it was the same as what the Amish speak.
-
Daniel, your last statement, may be our answer, plain, and simple, which the collectors wouldn't have given a second glance, whether made by them or someone else.
Bill
-
Ever seen an Amish quilt........ pretty fantastic craftsmanship, & beautiful.
-
I don't want this to turn into and Amish society type of conversation...I do know exactly who the Amish are and where they originated from. I do consider them to be very good craftsmen...hence my original question...
And my wife owns 2 Amish quilts.. and they are indeed beautiful. :)
-
So lots of speculation... they did/do shoot...maybe make guns...don't know as no one seems to know of any guns or builders who are Amish. The idea that Amish guns might be plain..no evidence to support that... Not much help here Teun. I would be great if you would share anything that you learn on the subject elsewhere......
-
I would gladly share if I had any...I'm not trying to be difficult lol!
-
I have yet to see any gunsmiths listing either Amish or Mennonite as their religion (though maybe the infamous Martin Meili was Mennonite.... I'd have to look again and see). Generally you see Reformed, Lutheran, or Moravian. ;) I would actually expect to see some Mennonite gunsmiths perhaps, here and there, but I would not expect to see any Amish gunsmiths in the 18th/early 19th century. At the time, the Amish were the more austere, breakaway sect.
As far as being "good craftsmen".... well, some are, and some ain't. Just like with anyone else.
Oh, and among the Amish/Mennonites I know, they do tend to like pretty nice guns! ;)
-
I have yet to see any gunsmiths listing either Amish or Mennonite as their religion
The Newcomers in Lancaster County were Mennonite gunsmiths, no?
-
Indeed! According to Whisker's Gunsmiths of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, Abraham Newcomer was a Mennonite, and married to the daughter of the aforementioned Martin Meili (Meilin, Meylin)!
:)
-
Mennonite gunsmiths-Lancaster County, PA
Martin Meilin Jr. definitely a gunsmith, no matter what anybody says. His father Martin Meilin Sr., is open to debate.
Abraham Newcomer, he married the widow of Martin Meilin Jr. and took over his gunshop.
John Newcomer - Hempfield Township
John Line - Conestoga Township
There are others, but still being researched.
On the Amish question. The original question stated making early rifles, but did not give a date. I'm really busy with the farm right now but will supply some exact info later. Initially the Amish were very few in number compared to other pacifist sects and arrived at a later date. Some of their earliest settlements were failures. They were not involved in the trades to any great extent. Farming was their main occupation. I know of no early Amish gunsmith.
Mart Keen
-
Thanks for the info fellas!
-
I have two friends here in Indiana and both trace there roots to one of the twelve original Amish families of the Anti-baptist reformation. (hope I spelled that right). One has a bible with a birth date of 1842 who was born before the family emmigrated. The other's ancestors settled in Lancaster County Penn. Last name is spelled Dohner. His ancestors helped settle Lancaster Co. before the revolution. Approx 1740's. He is not sure about the history of gunsmiths in his family eventhough he is one himself. I will try to keep looking as well.
-
Several Amish & Swiss Mennonite gunsmiths were working in Ohio during the mid 19th century. Two of these gunsmiths lived 2 miles from my home in Pandora, Ohio (Putnam County) and one was located in Winesburg,Ohio (Holmes County).
The research on John Moser and Peter Geiger of Putnam County can be viewed on web site - www.aolrc.org . Select the publication tab on their home page and view the Feb 2000 newletter for Peter Gieger article and Nov 2000 newsletter for John Moser article.
Research on Reuben Yutzy -Holmes County Amish gunsmith can be found in newletter Feb. 1994.
-
Anabaptists. Quakers, Hutterites, Amish, Mennonites, Brethren mostly. Wikipedia has a good summary:
Anabaptists (Greek ανα (again, twice) +βαπτιζω (baptize), thus "re-baptizers"[1]) are Protestant Christians of the Radical Reformation of 16th-century Europe, and their direct descendants, particularly the Amish, Brethren, Hutterites, and Mennonites.
Anabaptists rejected conventional Christian practices such as wearing wedding rings, taking oaths, and participating in civil government. They adhered to a literal interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount and believer's baptism.
The name Anabaptist is derived from the Latin term anabaptista, or "one who baptizes over again", in reference to practicing adult baptism, because, as a new faith, they baptized converts who already had been baptized (as infants) in the older Christian churches.[2]
Anabaptists required that candidates be able to make their own confessions of faith and so refused baptism to infants. As a result, Anabaptists were heavily persecuted during the 16th century and into the 17th by both other Protestants and Roman Catholics.
Sorry, no mention of gunsmithing. ;D
-
Watched a Rueben Yutz rifle sell in Goshen yesterday for $29,500. They had no problems finding bidders to push it above $20,000. The rifle was used, wood nice some pitting on the lock.
http://lewisandlambrightauctions.com/struberpics.html (http://lewisandlambrightauctions.com/struberpics.html)
-
The area (Elkhart and LaGrange County) is home to the third largest amish community (pop 20,000). There are many descendants of Reuben Yutzy in the area. The community knew about the rifle because the owner was an amish taxi driver and had taken it to family reunions. So when it came up for sale, people were excited. I had my car full of amishmen when I drove to the auction. Those bidding on the rifle were descendants, although not amish. I'm sure it was the same situation when Cowan's Auction sold one in Ohio for 24k back in 2007 or 2008. Nice gun, but maybe 2,500 tops with anyone elses name on it. I guess the moral is... if you find a Reuben Yutzy rifle, buy it and sell it in an Amish community.
-
I know some Amish that build guns today. One lives up near Mill Hall, Pa. Years ago I received a phone call from a guy,
he told me what he wanted and I should send him a note when it was finished and he would come down and pick it up.
I finished it and sent him a note. Next week a van pulled into the parking lot, and this Amish fellow came into the shop,
gave his name. When he called he didn't really sound too dutchy, but sure enough he had black pants with one suspender, a black coat, and a straw hat. Had a lot of fun with him, also now see him at Dixon's every year......Don
-
There are more Amish at Friendship these days than Buckskinners ;D
I have no idea if they spend any money, or just come to see all the English folks who try and live olde tyme, but there have been times you couldnt make it thru the sheepshed's because of all the Amish.......
Im glad to see them, and Hope they spend money, as the folks at Friendship need it....
-
In the 1970's,Bill Large made good number of barrels for Amish gunmakers
in Ohio but I never knew where they were located. I don't recall ever seeing
any guns they made either. Bill said a Mennonite was an Amish man that had
a car but then I never really knew about any of them.My mother in law said
they were a nuisance to her because they always wanted to use her phone but
wouldn't have one in their own homes. This was in Southern Ohio.
Bob Roller
-
I love your stories and how you tell them Bob! Entertaining.
-
There was also a Amish gunmaker from the Big Valley , Belleville PA , it's in Mifflin CO . His name was Detweiler ..
Can't remember his first ...
Loren Wengerd owns at least one of his guns and it's very ornate .. nicely done .. A direct relative of his wife ..
-
Interesting thread! I live within 30 mins. of Belleville. As an outsider from the South West, it is always neat to learn more about the folks here. Good people!
-
The big Amish settlement in Ohio is arround Sugarcreek and Berlin. Over here most Eastern primitive Rendevous I have seen Amish come out and look at rifles. About a year ago I was in the Log Cabin shop and two Amish gents looked to be about 20 something came in with a very plain half stock percussian they said they found in one of their barns they were tearing down. If I remember right it looked to be about .38 or .40 with a 1 inch or so barrel (remember small bore thick barrel) with an Ohio typish stock profile. They were looking arround in the museum to see if they could identify it. Maybe asking the folks at the Log Cabin Shop would get some answers as they have a large collection of Ohio made guns and listing of Ohio gunmakers.
-
Eck villa beir? Vous da bah stoop?? Consta mecka fawna? Yeowsta yucca bliva. Be hangsht. That's pretty much all the "dutchie" I know.:-)
-
Det hoert sich aber greuslich on