AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Shop Made Tools => Topic started by: Hudnut on February 07, 2012, 05:35:18 PM
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I always like to test barrels detached from the stocks - so that in the event of a failure, damage is limited to the barrel.
I dislike fuse, because of the lack of close control. Instead, I fire them electrically. A piece of two lead flex is used, and a twist of steel wool affixed to the bared ends. A 9v transistor battery is applied to the other ends. The steel wool becomes incandescent almost instantly.
The barrel is secured to a plank, butted up against a block. Sandbags over the assembly to hold it down. A mound of powder is placed over the vent, the steel wool on that. Have fired percussion barrels this way, just make a little cone of paper and tape to hold the priming over the nipple.
I've only ever blown one breechplug, and that was from a set of horrible antique barrels. Turned out someone had previously messed up the threads.
Hardly a traditional approach, but it works.
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Never thought of doing it that way. Sounds alot safer than firecracker fuse and running like $#*!! Maybe just not as exciting.
Just like a combat zone. Many days and hours of boredom are broken by twenty seconds of shear terror!
Shot at and missed, $#*! and hit! :P
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i like the two inchs of cannon fuse and run like $#*! and hope u dont trip !! LOL
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I've used fuse, don't run so well anymore. I like the positive control that comes with this new fangled electricity stuff.
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I opted to go with a percussion cap ignition system. This percussion "lock" is triggered with a pull string. In order to control the heavy recoil generated by the proof loads, I installed a shock absorber, stolen from the hatchback of my son's Nisson 280Z. If you look closely, in the video, you can see the string begin to tighten as the devise is fired. Note , also, the recoil being taken by the piston and then slowly returned to its original position. The devise is anchored to the ground with several 8" spikes. I no longer have the barrel breaking it's wooden holder and flying across the ground.
(https://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x330/wmaser/barreltester.jpg)
(https://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x330/wmaser/th_barreltestvideo.jpg) (http://s1176.photobucket.com/albums/x330/wmaser/?action=view¤t=barreltestvideo.mp4)
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Wild Bill
Pretty cool device! Do you think it would work without the shock absorber?
What proof charge and load do you use?
Have you ever blown a barrel?
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I use about 12" of fuse ;D
Swamped barrels must only be clamped at the muzzle and breech.
Made from scrap 2x6
Click on it for video.
Dan
(https://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/DPhariss/Gunsmithing/th_58calproofLR.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/DPhariss/Gunsmithing/?action=view¤t=58calproofLR.mp4)
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This was a 1 1/8" straight 58 cal
(https://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/DPhariss/Gunsmithing/P1050035.jpg)
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Wild Bill
Pretty cool device! Do you think it would work without the shock absorber?
What proof charge and load do you use?
Have you ever blown a barrel?
Yes it would work without the shock absorber, but I got tired of splintered wood and flying barrels. Once I had a tang bent. That was tough to fit back in the stock. The shock absorber handles the impact rather nicely and , as you said, It's "pretty cool".
This particular barrel was an old shotgun barrel I aquired in a trade. I reamed the bore to .75 cal and loaded it with 250 gr of FFg powder and two patched round balls.
No. As hard as I've tried, I've never blown a barrel or a breech plug. ( I don't use touch hole liners)
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Dan, Loved the video. I have 3 barrels that need to be proofed. What kind of fuse do you recoment and where can I find it?
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Dan, Loved the video. I have 3 barrels that need to be proofed. What kind of fuse do you recoment and where can I find it?
I use cannon fuse from the local gun store. Its green and is about like M-80 or Cherry Bomb Fuse used to be.
I also use a shop made rifle cradle for Swamped barrels that only holds them at one end or the other. C-clamps can bend a swamp unless used at the very end.
If I made more percussion guns I would make a device to use a cap to fire them.
Dan
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Back about thirty years ago, I was deep into building my first trade gun, from a bunch of surplus parts old Turner Kirkland picked up while dragging a magnet through Europe, and maybe India. In the back of the Dixie Gun works catalog was a picture of somebody proof firing a barrel by sticking it in an old tire, and tying the muzzle down. That looked good to me, so thats what I did. The round barrel was a .20 ga. and 30" long. I decided it needed proofing because it was obviously an unfinished shotgun barrel originally designed to be part of a double gun. Also I had draw filed it OTR and wasn't sure how deep I had gone on the wedding rings. The text, with the picture, said to double charge it, and double ball it, so thats what I did. One hundred and twenty grains of 2F, and two patched balls. Now I'm here to tell y'all that if you don't use a steel belted radial tire, you're gonna have to do some hunting' to find that barrel. Luckily I didn't stand behind the tire, and didn't point it toward the house. The barrel when about 25 yards out through the orchard, but it stayed together, and the gun got built.
Hungry Horse
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I use about 12" of fuse ;D
Swamped barrels must only be clamped at the muzzle and breech.
Made from scrap 2x6
Click on it for video.
Dan
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi199%2FDPhariss%2FGunsmithing%2Fth_58calproofLR.jpg&hash=17e4744a802f71f2b664ba3d6ca0182dd2ffa820) (http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/DPhariss/Gunsmithing/?action=view¤t=58calproofLR.mp4)
How much time does 12" of cannon fuse give you?
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Always ... ALWAYS test and time the fuse material that YOU purchased for it's burn rate!!!!
Example: Green burns different than the red!! :o
The stuff I bought last time burns SLOWER than the new stuff ... ;)
Cheers,
Smoketown
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Good Advise!
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Back about thirty years ago, I was deep into building my first trade gun, from a bunch of surplus parts old Turner Kirkland picked up while dragging a magnet through Europe, and maybe India. In the back of the Dixie Gun works catalog was a picture of somebody proof firing a barrel by sticking it in an old tire, and tying the muzzle down. That looked good to me, so thats what I did. The round barrel was a .20 ga. and 30" long. I decided it needed proofing because it was obviously an unfinished shotgun barrel originally designed to be part of a double gun. Also I had draw filed it OTR and wasn't sure how deep I had gone on the wedding rings. The text, with the picture, said to double charge it, and double ball it, so thats what I did. One hundred and twenty grains of 2F, and two patched balls. Now I'm here to tell y'all that if you don't use a steel belted radial tire, you're gonna have to do some hunting' to find that barrel. Luckily I didn't stand behind the tire, and didn't point it toward the house. The barrel when about 25 yards out through the orchard, but it stayed together, and the gun got built.
As a ten year old kid, I proofed an old Pat 53 Enfield barrel in a tyre, only used a 2 3/4 ffg dram charge and a single minne and tied the barrel down, might have been an old tractor tyre, anways, 41 years later still using the old girl. !!!
Cheers
Gordon
Hungry Horse
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I've used fuse, don't run so well anymore. I like the positive control that comes with this new fangled electricity stuff.
Apparently you're old, fat & slow (like me). I just use longer lengths of fuse. Got some green that's so slow you could begin raising a family & even have your shoes back on, before it goes off, it burns so slow.
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I personally don't think a Rice, Colerain, or Green Mountain barrels need to be "Tested". Same goes for a Rayl, Long Hammock, or any other modern made barrel, JMO. But I would test old Wrought Iron, DOM, or Cold Drawn Steel barrels though.
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I personally don't think a Rice, Colerain, or Green Mountain barrels need to be "Tested". Same goes for a Rayl, Long Hammock, or any other modern made barrel, JMO. But I would test old Wrought Iron, DOM, or Cold Drawn Steel barrels though.
Depends on ones skills in rebreeching and cutting slots and installing t/h liners i reckon. Plus, i'm just always going to test 'em before i lay my face up there next to it.
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I beleive Charles test fires his work, and will send you the target if requested......
Marc n tomtom
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I'm thinking I want to proof a barrel I have but I would like to do it before I build the rifle. So I don't want to drill touch hole yet. I suppose I would need to make a temporary breech plug and drill it for touch hole. Any one done that?
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Charles does it that way i believe.......
marc n tomtom
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you mean you're not supposed to test your build holding it finished in the white?
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Dan, Loved the video. I have 3 barrels that need to be proofed. What kind of fuse do you recoment and where can I find it?
Its green "Cannon Fuse" I buy at the local combined Gun Store, Gas Station, State Liquor Store, C-Store and Gift Shop.
It can be found on line as well don't know how its shipped.
Dan
http://www.hyattgunstore.com/traditions-a1264-cannon-fuse-muzzeloader-15-ft-each.html
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FYI:
http://rsengineering.de/Bogentest/german%20proof%20firing%20loads.html
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Back about thirty years ago, I was deep into building my first trade gun, from a bunch of surplus parts old Turner Kirkland picked up while dragging a magnet through Europe, and maybe India. In the back of the Dixie Gun works catalog was a picture of somebody proof firing a barrel by sticking it in an old tire, and tying the muzzle down. That looked good to me, so thats what I did. The round barrel was a .20 ga. and 30" long. I decided it needed proofing because it was obviously an unfinished shotgun barrel originally designed to be part of a double gun. Also I had draw filed it OTR and wasn't sure how deep I had gone on the wedding rings. The text, with the picture, said to double charge it, and double ball it, so thats what I did. One hundred and twenty grains of 2F, and two patched balls. Now I'm here to tell y'all that if you don't use a steel belted radial tire, you're gonna have to do some hunting' to find that barrel. Luckily I didn't stand behind the tire, and didn't point it toward the house. The barrel when about 25 yards out through the orchard, but it stayed together, and the gun got built.
I had a similar experience about the same time period with a Dixie Gun Works surplus barrel. I was building a Barnett trade gun and needed to proof the barrel. Double load and double ball, but I thought I would go one better than a tire and tie it muzzle down to one of my large cottonwood trees (about 4 feet in diameter). I lit the fuse and stepped to the other side of the tree and plugged my ears. After what seemed like an eternity, there was a big boom and I stepped around the tree to see how the barrel fared. To my surprise, there was nothing there! I stood dumbfounded, trying to figure out what happened, when I heard a metallic sound over my head. It was my barrel returning to Earth! It stuck muzzle down in the dirt about 10 feet from the tree. I estimate the barrel was airborne about 20-30 seconds, probably reaching an altitude of a couple of hundred feet. I called the gun "Eagle" in honor of the barrel's flight. I test barrels differently now....Like my Grandma always used to say "God watches out for drunks and fools". I wasn't drinking, but I think I own the "fool" moniker. I remain your humble servant,
Just Dave
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You can buy cannon fuse here. No hazmat fee.
http://www.cannonfuse.com/http://
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How much time does 12" of cannon fuse give you?
[/quote]
Age and exposure will affect burn rate. The only way to get a reasonable estimate of burn rate for a given fuse is to time it. Cut off 12" of fuse, light the freshly cut end, and time how long it takes to burn.
This does 2 things: It gives you the current burn rate, and provides you with two freshly cut ends for easier lighting and ignition.
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What I have been doing is to do it electrically with a 100ft extension cord. Take a lamp cord and twist a few strands of fine steel wool between the bare ends where the lamp would normally go. Tape this close to the touch hole on the barrel. Take and cover the touch hole with 4f. Using a 100ft cord I plug this into a outside electrical outlet and it goes bang right now each and every time. did a 2 shot proof on a 26" flint shot gun barrel a few months ago this way, first with shot then with a double ball. John
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What I have been doing is to do it electrically with a 100ft extension cord. Take a lamp cord and twist a few strands of fine steel wool between the bare ends where the lamp would normally go. Tape this close to the touch hole on the barrel. Take and cover the touch hole with 4f. Using a 100ft cord I plug this into a outside electrical outlet and it goes bang right now each and every time. did a 2 shot proof on a 26" flint shot gun barrel a few months ago this way, first with shot then with a double ball. John
12VDC would probably light one that way too, in case any range doesn't have AC power. Also you might install a switch in the circuit, use a red-covered one for dramatic effects. ;D
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faustralianrobotics.com.au%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2Fproduct_full%2F09278-1.jpg&hash=8d82ad5ddd450ad6b1acac4601a14204dd01c608)
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What would be a proper proof load for a 54 cal rifle barrel?
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I personally don't think a Rice, Colerain, or Green Mountain barrels need to be "Tested". Same goes for a Rayl, Long Hammock, or any other modern made barrel, JMO.
Funny that the best barrel makers in the world have been proofing barrels so long then. What do the companies in that list know that the rest of the world does not? Not saying their barrels are not usually great but proofing has been accepted as part of a barrels evolution from a billet or bar to a firearm for centuries.
food for thought:
With many materials including but not limited to bronze, iron, early steels 'proofing' serves not just to 'test' it for safety. Firing a heavy proof load actually serves to strengthen/improve resistance to future bursting.
Was a time when (and likely still) the best barrels were bored, loads heavy enough to enlarge the bore and OD were fired, even to the point of individual bulges and then the barrel would be bored to desired size, rifled, turned to a uniform profile.
proofing/firing with heavy loads has been recognized as a MAJOR contributor to creating safe barrels (as opposed to testing for a safe barrel) since the krauts started applying a bit of science and measuring to gun building in the mid 19th century.
I have no idea how any modern/ ( say post 1900) barrel material reacts to proofing, be nice if some barrel makers did though? We might end up with lighter barrels as one benefit. Those admirably thin light fowler walls and thin waist-ed rifles of old have a genesis in careful science.
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When I test a barrel, I use a set up similar to Dan's. I use the maroon/red cannon fuse to set it off.
On the land where I hunt, there is a big oak tree that has a perfect pocket where the roots go into the ground. I drove 4 stakes into the ground near the pocket. I attach the breech area of my jig to two of the stakes, and the muzzle end to the other two. The breech end of the jig is held tightly against the tree. The barrel is clamped to the jig as Dan shows.
I use only about 8 inches of fuse. I light it and just step around the the back side of the tree and put my fingers in my ears.