AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: pathfinder on January 13, 2013, 03:53:09 AM
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Let this start out saying, EVRYONE IS A OK! Again, EVERYONE IS FINE!!!!!
While at the shoot today in Laingsburg at the Lansing Muzzleloaders winter shoot,one of our members here,MiFlinter had his powder horn BLOW UP WHIKE HE WAS WEARING IT!
Eric D Lau was having trouble getting his flinter to go off and decided to step off the line to clear the gun.
I wasn't there at the station where it happened,so this is as Eric described the incident. The horn he had on had a slight crack in it that he had "fixed" with some epoxy. He was wearing it on his left side. He then held the firearm at waist level,pointed kinda to his left, with a pan FULL of prime. When he lit her off,the people who WERE there described it as Eric being enveloped in an orange fireball!
Apparently the flame shooting from the touch hole found a small gap in the epoxy repair and set off what was left in his horn. The only casualty's were his horn of course,and his left sleeve's,they were smoldering ember's that could not be put out.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi560.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss42%2Fpathfinder_01%2Fth_LansingHornBlownup034_zps14e5d78a.jpg&hash=0f002e11793f18663e6be87e39d1f67cac7d5534) (http://s560.beta.photobucket.com/user/pathfinder_01/media/LansingHornBlownup034_zps14e5d78a.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi560.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss42%2Fpathfinder_01%2Fth_LansingHornBlownup028_zps8e77a2a6.jpg&hash=6792f1d43184a698c67a311296691ca98cd1f110) (http://s560.beta.photobucket.com/user/pathfinder_01/media/LansingHornBlownup028_zps8e77a2a6.jpg.html)
When I got home I did give my wife an extra hug and the dog's some extra kibble in their bowl's.
I think the low pressure created by a "vented horn" was the ONLY reason nobody got seriously hurt. Caution should NEVER take a break. The thing's Eric did is something that anyone one of us has done MORE THAN ONCE in our career's as muzzleloader's,at least I have.
I guess the only lesson I'M taking from this is I will continue to NOT epoxy the base plug's in my horn's to act as a "Pressure relief valve". Beeswax to "seal" it as best as possable,but NO GLUE!!!!!!
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Incidents like this usually go a long way to improve the habits of those who were lucky enough to witness it and even some of those who weren't.
Glad everybody is okay.
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WOW!!! It is truly amazing that no one was hurt. And they say cats have nine lives.
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No laughing matter and I am glad he came out unscathed, but it did give his outfit a little more "character". Beating the odds like that would make me want to go buy a lottery ticket.
Was this his main horn or his priming horn?
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The man upstairs was looking over me today .I am very lucky to come out of it with just a slight burn on my arm . I have been shooting black powder since the midsixties and have tried to be safty minded . If you have a horn that has a crack in it put it on the wall and retire it . Thanks Pathfinder for posting this .
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Eric,I'm MORE than happy to post this because of the geat outcome. It was great to meet you too!
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The man upstairs was looking over me today .I am very lucky to come out of it with just a slight burn on my arm . I have been shooting black powder since the midsixties and have tried to be safety minded . If you have a horn that has a crack in it put it on the wall and retire it . Thanks Pathfinder for posting this .
I've had dealings with Pathfinder before but never met him in person. I am glad you are alright and you've met a good friend in Pathfinder.
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WOW Made me just give all my horns a good lookover. Im glad nobody was hurt
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Im more freaked by the images of a trigger finger necklace.......
Glad the guy didnt get hurt to bad, but well that finger.......
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Luke,
How can you be sure that's a trigger finger? It might be the middle ("Guy gave me the finger - so I took it! Put it in my pouch right next to the evil eye someone had given me the week before....)! :D
Eric
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And I'm glad everyone's okay!
Eric
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Anyone else think maybe folks should oughta remove horns and flasks and such when messing with clearing a misfire? It seems most times I see people trying to get a misfire to go, the gun is not at the shoulder, farther from the storage device. I've suggested to more than one person that it might not be wise to be setting off a prime closer to the horn than would normally be the case in shooting from the shoulder. Just sayin'........
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Its already to the point that to start a flint and steel fire you have to take your pouch and horn off, cause its dangerous to strike sparks below your horn, yet its somehow safe to strike sparks above the horn while shooting. I think the thing to do is not leave your horn uncapped either to allow sparks to fall in the spout, or dump powder on your tinder nest.......Personal Responsiblity trumps some new rule everyday in my book.
But what was the root cause? I dont know the guy, and what I say will make me a bunghole, but his horn broke, instead of replaceing the horn, he tried to fix it, and the fix really wasnt a fix......
If the horn had sentimental value, it should have been retired to the mantle.
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Eric,
had a similar incident occur to a freind down here a few years back, open top pouch and loose residual powder. Glad to hear you are okay. I guess some of us old dogs can learn new tricks, a new horn isn't so costly sometimes.
Mark
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Gentelmen I take full respoonceability for this misshap .I hope my goofup will save someone from the same mistake . I'm very lucky to not have burns on my body. I didn't sleep well last night just thinking of this.
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I had some trouble myself!
Kermit,you are absolutly right and you are very far from being a bunghole! Who would have thought it would be an issue? I sure wouldn't have. I feel that this is a wake up call for us all! And when I have to "clear" my firearm,I alway's shoulder the gun and aim at a target,NEVER WASTE A SHOT!
No blame can or should be put ANYWHERE! No matter what we do to avoid them,accident's will continue to happen.
On a side note and to lighten it up a bit,it's another reason left handed gun's are wrong! LOL ::)
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Gentelmen I take full respoonceability for this misshap .I hope my goofup will save someone from the same mistake . I'm very lucky to not have burns on my body. I didn't sleep well last night just thinking of this.
Hey Flint:: I'm sure everyone here thanks you for posting this inc ident. It may save more...
I have seen 1 horn go up (unplugged horn on bench alongside open box of caps and shooting from the same bench) and know of 2 others and one hand grenade brass plunger primer (primer in open topped shoulder strap pouch with plunger up not pretty and he left a fine blood trail) Now don't depend on large end plugs waxed in to save the horn from shattering.....This was written up couple or three years ago in M Blasts...
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Eric, thank the good lord that you are alright. Something like that happening is a real eye opener. It wil make all of us check and double check our horns alot more often.
topknot
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Eric, thank the good lord that you are alright. Something like that happening is a real eye opener. It wil make all of us check and double check our horns alot more often.
topknot
AMEN Brother! All thing's concidered and seeing how much we all shoot,AND how conscience we all are when it comes to saftey, this is a very safe sport! It takes a great deal of skill and commitment to saftey for us to be able to maintain our record of safe shooting. A huge round of applause need's to go to the fella's in Eric's shooting group for the quick action on their part to get Eric's smoldering sleeves off and preventing even more damage to him and others in the area!
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Glad to hear you're alright Eric.
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Glad all is OK! It really bothered me that my own dye tipped horn was split along the dyed portion.....so I sawed it to where no one can use it ever again. Better that than someone getting hurt.
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Eric, I am so glad to hear you are OK! At least physically...I know that will weigh on your mind awhile.
"Sticky" was over yesterday ordering up a new RIFLEGUN, and told me about the incedent!
We may laff about it now that no one was hurt...but there is a serious lesson to be learned from it. We will discuss this and other safety issues at the Feb. club mtg.
I guess I should have looked CLOSER at the repair job a week ago when you showed it to me.
So, how do you like your new handle? "Runnin Torch"??
Lovingly, Grits
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Running Torch? I bet Swampy Shorts is also accurate! Glad you weren't seriously hurt. Bet your outfit has rather strong smell of sulphur. Might scare some folks!
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Yah, there have been discussions about the strong smell of his outfit, even before this happened :D
Hornblower might be a good tag too!
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You know we could all be friends if you only tried . I'm honored to have such good friends . They say things happen in threes ? Hope I don't pick up another name down in South Carolina this weekend when I'm on a hog hunt. I do appreciate everyones concern on my well being.
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Flinter I'm glad you and everyones OK. When I shot with a club in S.Fl. we loaded at tables behind the firing line/benches. No Powder was allowed at the firing line with the exception of your priming flask/horn. I always felt uncomfortable just leaving my charger just lying on the bench next to the line while shooting,so I would cover it with my towel while firing. A towel is a must in S. Fl. trying to shoot in that humidity. I always said "better safe than sorry".
PS: A nice battery operated fan is a must down there too...lol
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Gentelmen I take full respoonceability for this misshap .I hope my goofup will save someone from the same mistake . I'm very lucky to not have burns on my body. I didn't sleep well last night just thinking of this.
Glad you are OK.
Scarey...
Cold weather clothing was a plus here I am sure
BP flash burns are very painful even if superficial, I learned many moons ago ::)
I have ceased to use the little plunger type primers since they are an accident waiting to happen and I make sure my horns are water tight and either air or very nearly air tight. I have one that I made in 1968 I should renew the base plug in or at least check again.
I had one a few years ago that I had epoxied. Antique with a crack. It finally broke to the point of making a priming horn from it.
When a FL fires the pan there is a lot of stuff flying around and using FF or FFF for prime will increase this since the heavier grains burn slower and fly farther.
I consider horns to be the best container for powder. The horn failed without allowing the powder to produce enough pressure to cause blast damage. I would hope mine would do the same.
But we also tend to get a little too used to having the stuff around and often forget that its pretty hot stuff, easy to light and impossible to put out.
Dan
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Gentelmen I take full respoonceability for this misshap .I hope my goofup will save someone from the same mistake . I'm very lucky to not have burns on my body. I didn't sleep well last night just thinking of this.
Glad you are OK.
Scarey...
Cold weather clothing was a plus here I am sure
BP flash burns are very painful even if superficial, I learned many moons ago ::)
I have ceased to use the little plunger type primers since they are an accident waiting to happen and I make sure my horns are water tight and either air or very nearly air tight. I have one that I made in 1968 I should renew the base plug in or at least check again.
I had one a few years ago that I had epoxied. Antique with a crack. It finally broke to the point of making a priming horn from it.
When a FL fires the pan there is a lot of stuff flying around and using FF or FFF for prime will increase this since the heavier grains burn slower and fly farther.
I consider horns to be the best container for powder. The horn failed without allowing the powder to produce enough pressure to cause blast damage. I would hope mine would do the same.
But we also tend to get a little too used to having the stuff around and often forget that its pretty hot stuff, easy to light and impossible to put out.
Dan
We went over this at outr annual meeting past Sunday and will be gone over during upcoming w walks at other clubs i.e. Cracked horn discard or hang over the mantle (w.o contents of course) ::)
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Eric,
good that you are ok. Downunder to my knowledge we have had a powder flask go up, it was on a shooting bench during a comp. We no longer allow flasks to be on the bench or loaded from directly.
Back to your incident, it would never have occurred to me that a repaired horn could be a problem, or that a glued in base plug would not be a good idea as they need to pop easily in case of explosion.
Thank you for having the guts to post this incident so we might all learn, same goes for any other stuff ups that might occur to any other of us !!
Kind regards
Gordon
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Eric,
good that you are ok. Downunder to my knowledge we have had a powder flask go up, it was on a shooting bench during a comp. We no longer allow flasks to be on the bench or loaded from directly.
Back to your incident, it would never have occurred to me that a repaired horn could be a problem, or that a glued in base plug would not be a good idea as they need to pop easily in case of explosion.
Thank you for having the guts to post this incident so we might all learn, same goes for any other stuff ups that might occur to any other of us !!
Kind regards
Gordon
I agree,, so last night I'm getting my gear together for coming
Sunday's w walk (smoothbore this time) and I decided to test the original ancient horn that is part of my gear for being airtight. Needless to say I was surprised to hear and feel the air blown thru it coming out (in fair volume) around the large end plug. No cracks visible but ::)... So, I went to another horn (aftertesting it the same way) This horn is ancient and original also; but the b is tight! The leaky horn now decorates my dungeon wall.. Sooo, all of us should take heed and try our own equipment. My thanks again to the original poster.
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This incident goes to prove that we can never be too careful. Once we become lazy enough to throw all caution to the wind, bad things will happen. Although Eric was not negligent in this case, inspite of the precautions we do take, sometimes they are not enough.
Thanks for sharing.
James
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That's why I stated there was NO BLAME ANYWHERE as to this incedent. It just happens sometimes. Doesn't mean there's no explaination,just thankfull all's well!
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I will give you a thumbs up and a big thank you for sharing your near miss. Since i am a planning on attending some shoots for the first time this is very helpful.
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Guess I'll stop using that old horn with the cloth tape over a crack . . .
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Very glad you were not hurt. I am lefthanded too but I wear my horn on my right side. I did this to prevent the horn from bumping my rifle while hunting. I also think this moves the horn futher away from the lock. With the high horn carry that would place the horn almost directly under the lock. Most righthanded people carry on the right side creating a similar situation.
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Eric, glad your OK!
See you at the chunk shoots.
Mike
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Very glad no one got hurt from this freak accident. Proves no matter how careful you are things can go wrong.
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I'm wondering if the epoxy didn't hold because it was brittle and didn't expand and contract with the natural material of horn. Old time cracks were often repaired with metal staples and tar. The staple would hold the crack together while the tar would remain resilient enough to seal.
I've noticed ads for a lot of relatively cheap powder horns lately. These are coming in from south Asia and most need a little work to bring them up to Chinese export standards. Not a doubt in my mind that most of these leak. Check your equipment closely and remember that familiarity builds contemp. Be careful out there....complacency kills.
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Question arose today at a shoot,,,,, is the owner of the horn that blew certain that the crack funneled the flash into the horn or was the plug out>? Just wondering...
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Yes,the plug stayed in the spout. That was the first thing I thought to. Had the flame entered through the spout,the repair to the horn would have been a moot point.
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For this reason, powderhorns containing powder are not allowed at the shooting ranges in scandinavia and most of europe. All powder charges must measured before hand and each charge stored in a capped plastic vival.
Best regards
Rolf
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I can understand that..to a point. That seem's to be an extreme answer to a VERY rare occurance. I have no way of giving even close to accurate numbers,but I have shot in the last 30+ years,137lbs of 3f powder,65lbs of 2f,and 5lbs of 4f,I have the cans and I just counted them. Yup,I'm a strange sort of pack rat!
And in all that shooting,this is the first time I was relitivley close to this type of accident. And very little of my shooting is in a "modern"setting.
I have no idea how ya'll shoot in Europe,do youhave rendezvous and such type events there? Wife and I are planning a trip to Poland in the next 2-3 years,I'll start another thread.
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Man... the Good Lord was surely sitting on your shoulder when this happened. Like everyone else, I'm glad you didn't stuffer any serious damage since the results of the horn blowing up could have had really disastrous, even fatal, results!
Strength & Honor,
Ron T.