AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: gwill on December 30, 2013, 09:44:23 PM

Title: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: gwill on December 30, 2013, 09:44:23 PM

I found this pistol today at an antique store, the price seemed ok and I liked it so much I bought it.  Now I'm wondering just what it is!  I realize the quality of the photos isn't great but if you have any thoughts or comments on it I'd be very interested.  Thanks in advance.

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee450%2Fgwill6125%2Fpistol1.jpg&hash=29335dcbc074ad528de0f65e70dbeb9a7fc69564) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/gwill6125/media/pistol1.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee450%2Fgwill6125%2Fpistol2.jpg&hash=795acc60e4985ebb9ffc98cf44e51ef374421cdd) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/gwill6125/media/pistol2.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee450%2Fgwill6125%2Fpistol4.jpg&hash=5cbac55b88db149e9a3cee42e6365061a64f86c3) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/gwill6125/media/pistol4.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee450%2Fgwill6125%2Fpistol7.jpg&hash=7239364eaedbd95e41bc1d7dcf3f5a52b984e097) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/gwill6125/media/pistol7.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee450%2Fgwill6125%2Fpistol15.jpg&hash=636ad99f291b82d70bc8cc086b7125abd256ad54) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/gwill6125/media/pistol15.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee450%2Fgwill6125%2Fpistol14.jpg&hash=a62fd1065ef59d4afe2e9bd347519f9bc61f9df8) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/gwill6125/media/pistol14.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee450%2Fgwill6125%2Fpistol16.jpg&hash=95ccf9603d26e730d315b194ea3a9de4b08f0198) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/gwill6125/media/pistol16.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: Hungry Horse on December 30, 2013, 11:26:04 PM

 I would guess it to be French, with a Belgian style percussion conversion. Very nice shape. I love these style pistols.

              Hungry Horse

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: Shreckmeister on December 31, 2013, 12:23:13 AM

Nice find.  Two votes for French. 

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: E.vonAschwege on December 31, 2013, 12:40:38 AM

Very nice pistol - Without a doubt it is French, probably 1770s or 80s.  It has lovely lines, a very nice find!  I'm very fond of these iron trimmed French pistols, thank you for sharing!  I wish I could find something that old and nice in the local antique stores here... 
Best,
-Eric

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: gwill on December 31, 2013, 03:03:21 AM

Thank you all for commenting. I feel fortunate to have acquired such a nice a piece of history.

Is there anything I should do to help preserve it?  Maybe apply a coat of good wax?

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: Fullstock longrifle on December 31, 2013, 04:55:12 AM

It looks fine, I would just enjoy it as it is.
Frank

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: Steve Collward on December 31, 2013, 04:42:48 PM

gwill:
  Nice find. Attached are some photos of a French pistol, made I believe, a bit later than yours, but showing some similarities.
Simple carving, side plate and trigger guard.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi472.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr87%2Fsc79%2FFrench-2_zps25cc6598.jpg&hash=dade5d53e95c1f1ce24a0367b0a96f3c56de99d0) (http://s472.photobucket.com/user/sc79/media/French-2_zps25cc6598.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi472.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr87%2Fsc79%2FFrench-1_zps9635968a.jpg&hash=4979bc0a8cd54c2204d9ffa2c38f088ef981bccb) (http://s472.photobucket.com/user/sc79/media/French-1_zps9635968a.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi472.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr87%2Fsc79%2FFrench-3_zpsffd89769.jpg&hash=0392a4d59e531a438673134fd092e84d0db967b6) (http://s472.photobucket.com/user/sc79/media/French-3_zpsffd89769.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi472.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr87%2Fsc79%2FFrench-4_zpsd656b9f2.jpg&hash=10d9ab74b60570fab9f6a905af1e890ed66e6264) (http://s472.photobucket.com/user/sc79/media/French-4_zpsd656b9f2.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: Ky-Flinter on December 31, 2013, 07:07:59 PM

Gwill,
Congrats on a great find.  Very nice piece. 

I'm curious about something.  Obviously the pistol has been converted from flint, but in the picture below, I don't see any evidence of a touch-hole.  Any ideas on how that was converted?

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee450%2Fgwill6125%2Fpistol4.jpg&hash=5cbac55b88db149e9a3cee42e6365061a64f86c3)

-Ron

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: gwill on January 01, 2014, 12:24:10 AM

Good question about the conversion Ron.  Here are a couple of better photos.  I think I can see a dimple where the touch hole has been filled in.  The overall quality of the conversion looks impressive. 

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee450%2Fgwill6125%2Fpistol19.jpg&hash=984a2b8909ebe3c415bbaf1b7780289563d90fbb) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/gwill6125/media/pistol19.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee450%2Fgwill6125%2Fpistol20.jpg&hash=fddd04611902145e287bf84b8a20a840539556b1) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/gwill6125/media/pistol20.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: alex e. on January 01, 2014, 03:47:09 AM

What Eric said.
Nice find!

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on January 01, 2014, 06:34:14 AM

Perhaps the  back 1/2" of the barrel was cut off, re-breeched, and the nipple seat milled from the top.  Thus no vent.  It would not have been welded shut, would it?

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: E.vonAschwege on January 01, 2014, 07:53:48 AM

Taylor - I've examined a few originals (including arsenal converted model 1816 muskets) that used this type of percussion conversion.  In each example I found no evidence that the barrel had been cut back.  There was always some material built up and filed off area right where the touch hole used to be.  It may have been as simple as a bolt threaded and peened in place, but I never saw any kind of a seam.  I don't know how it was done, but the conversion is quite solid and direct - my only caveat with them is they're tougher to reconvert to flint, and usually the barrel is heavily eroded from cap spray. 
-Eric

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: JCKelly on January 20, 2014, 12:48:54 AM

They made forge welds then that I believe would be regarded as not possible today.

Gun lovely as-is, most any restoration will reduce its value.

If you do have a passion to remove some of the red rust, I suggest gently scrubbing with honest-to-gosh REAL bronze wool, or a piece of copper, with your favorite penetrating oil. My favorite iron cleaning oil is Automatic Transmission Fluid, but I can be had for Kroil. Even Johnson's Paste Wax or Crisco, if you like. Forget anything with silicone in it.

Do not ever use steel wool, even 0000, or any emery/sand paper on it.   

Title: Re: Antique Store Pistol
Post by: mike blair on January 23, 2014, 09:45:48 AM

why would any forge weld not be possible?i do them every day at work.simple to complex.the funny thing is i have no idea how to weld conventionally.