AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: D. Taylor Sapergia on January 18, 2014, 08:20:58 PM
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I'm going into this thread to try to replace the images stolen by Photobucket. They may not be the same as the ones in myinitial effort, but I hope they'll be interesting nonetheless.
Below are two images of the rifle currently on my bench. There was a time when I swore I'd never build another Hawken but they seem to keep coming to the surface. This one is is a pistol grip Hawken rifle, going to Alaska. It's .62 cal. with a 34" x 1/8" - 1" tapered Colerain barrel. It's been an interesting project from duplicating the design/geometry to re-shaping the trigger plate and guard. I can see why there are only two of the originals extant. This one will get the cool lolipop tang sight too. I'll post a few pics as it comes to life.
(https://i.ibb.co/0mDysLc/100-3397.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ckghY91)
(https://i.ibb.co/vx3BrdR/100-3398.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mC9BYyg)
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Taylor,
The next time you get into one of these PG Hawken rifles,contact me.
I have made curved bar triggers for several of these and others.
If I know the location of the sear I can customize it to the job.
Bob Roller
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That looks great. Certainly a little unusual to the eye, but not appealing none the less.
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That looks great. Certainly a little unusual to the eye, but not appealing none the less.
Probably meant to write 'appealing, nonetheless'.
:D
That's a very attractive stock profile, Taylor. I did notice the boss for the lollipop. Can't wait to see your progress.
Tom
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Quote from: Jim Kibler on Today at 03:58:26 PM
That looks great. Certainly a little unusual to the eye, but not appealing none the less.
Quote from: Acer Saccharum on today at 04:17:53 PM
Probably meant to write 'appealing, nonetheless'.
Or perhaps, not un-appealing?
It's good we get the drift anyway ... Must be due to all of the black powder smoke!
Cheers,
Smoketown
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Oops! Looks great Taylor!
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I agree, good looking so far. I will be interested in seeing how you do that boss for the tang sight.
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The photo of the original I have seen that still has the sight shows a square staff Schuetzen sight not a "lollipop". It is shown on pg 85 of "Steel Canvas" and the same rifle or a similar one is in "The Wm Locke Collection" Pg 493.
Dan
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It looks good, I had no idea they did these.
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I have a couple shots of this type of rifle it appears from the top view that the tang section with the bolster for the sight is a separate piece brazed into place on the regular tang. I can see what looks like a joint just ahead of the bolster in the top view when enlarged.
(https://i.ibb.co/1YVJ63f/Pistol-Grip-Hawken-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bjhRJxg)
(https://i.ibb.co/NS0pVvt/Pistol-grip-Hawken.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5FQvM0G)
(https://i.ibb.co/m8qHjF5/lolipop-tang-sight-Hawken.png) (https://ibb.co/74WGfNt)
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Cool beans man! ;D
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Thanks for all the encouragement lads. Here's a couple enlarged pictures of the tang sight I'm going to re-create. You can see that the boss is brazed to the tang, through which the threaded staff passes into the wrist. I am fortunate to know a metal guy who uses a TIG welder like a magic wand...I'll have him weld my boss to the tang, so I can have the unit colour case hardened according to the client's wishes.
Until today, I have files of two individual Hawken pistol grip rifles and they are almost identical. Now thanks to Dan Pharris, I have a third, the rifle from the Locke collection, and I think it is even nicer than the other two.
(https://i.ibb.co/CVyVfFq/100-4307.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XFPFqT9)
(https://i.ibb.co/y40xmSD/100-4308.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CPBSp2q)
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Bob, that is a great offer. Matching the trigger plate's curve to the stock was a neat project...I used Key Guy's three bar method and it went nicely. This plate is about 1/2" shorter on the forward end, and several inches shorter on the back end. I was surprised at how easily I was able to make the triggers work in this much- increased- curved plate. But drilling and tapping the holes for the guard retaining screw at the rear, and the rear tang screw was not as much fun. They come through the trigger plate at a very steep angle. But I always fall back on my old philosophy...if it has been done in the past, I can certainly do it in the present. I don't even have to invent anything!
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Taylor, what size screw and thread are you planning on using for the staff on the sight? The one in the photo looks like a substantial size or maybe its just the closeness of the image.
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This is a very interesting project. I have seen pictures of a "pistol grip" Hawken but the closest rifle I have actually seen is an English Sporting Rifle. Your work looks Great! Thanks for sharing. It's nice to see some of the other variations of the Hawken getting some interest. Good luck with it.
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Very cool project. Keep us posted!
Thanks for the pics.
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Taylor, that bulbous round pistol grip is out of sight, love it.
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The round grip makes this rifle look even bigger!
Great pictures for reference!
Thank you!
I am in the " Sapergia" fan club!
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I am going to use a piece of 1/4" drill rod with 40 tpi. The horizontal adjustment screw will be either #6 or #8 x 40 tpi.
Thanks for the reference to Steel Canvas...looked up the image, and was pleased to get another perspective.
In case you're wondering what the rifle feels like compared to the straight grip rifle...altogether different! It feels like the rifle is oozing accuracy.
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Taylor,
I have a 1/4x80 tap and die if you need it.makes for a very fine adjustment.
Just send it back when you're done with it.
Bob Roller
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Bob:
WOW! I will take advantage of your benevolence. I'll shoot you an email.
Thanks a lot for this offer.
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I held this rifle today - looking down the barrel as if it had sights it fits, dagnabit - I hates curved butt plates, hate them with a passion, but - Taylor is right - this one feels so good :o - I could shoot it and shoot it well - if I could see, that is ::) - and with an aperture rear sight - just maybe? ;D
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Looks great, Taylor. Lucky guy in Alaska!
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HA! - found it- time to renew some progress, Taylor. I know the stock has some oil and stain on it by now.
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Now, is this gun going to have a rear peep sight, OR is it going to be a "diopter" and you actually use the rear sight on the barrel?
Really good looking gun, by the way. ;)
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This rifle has been a long time getting finished...life has a way of interfering with my plans, it seems. Or as someone so well put it: "Man makes his plans, and God laughs!"
I've just spent the last week polishing steel. I am going to attempt pack hardening all of the hardware on this Hawken rifle, to be as authentic as possible, and I hope to get interesting colours as a bonus. So I've polished the steel to 1200 grit, all by hand.
I don't know if I've gilded the lily here, but I've cut the nose of the hammer "English style" to allow the cap to split and fall away, rather than jam in the hammer cup. Also, being a hunter, and knowing that the rifle will be used for moose and elk, I chequered the hammer spur. You don't want the hammer to get away on you when the trophy of a lifetime is standing in front of you waiting to receive. I do this to all my Hawken builds, HC or not.
The stock I stained with Ferric Nitrate dissolved in water, and finished with hot bees wax. I doubt Sam ever did this, preferring varnish for his own work, but I used the finish on my own Hawken rifle, and I've used it hard now for two hunting seasons, and it has stood up so well in nasty circumstances, that I decided to finish this one the same way. After final burnishing of the wood following the staining process, I heated the wood with a hot air heat gun, and melted bees wax onto the surface, doing a small area at a time, and heating the wood until it would suck up no more, before moving on the the next area. After the entire stock was coated with wax, I reheated it and rubbed it hard with a towel to remove the surface wax...done! All of the inlets have been likewise soaked with wax. The stock is now ready for chequering the wrist and grip, which I shall start this afternoon.
Here's a pic of the majority of the hardware, ready to be packed into the crucible. I'm going to include the breech plug, but the tang I'll rust blue like the barrel, since I have brazed on the boss for the tang sight. Speaking of which, Chris, I think it should be called a diopter. The original rifles (three of which I have seen images) all carry their rear sights. I was pleasantly surprised how clear the diopter makes the rear sight notch . Also, on all three of these great rifles, the front and rear sights are noticeably higher off the barrel than usual. This is a big help when target shooting, to get away from heat mirage.
Anyway, the build continues, and the light at the end of the tunnel is growing brighter.
(https://i.ibb.co/2N1S6qC/100-4371.jpg) (https://ibb.co/16tMnZP)
(https://i.ibb.co/6FZSKTp/100-4373.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4pfLbXD)
(https://i.ibb.co/TcQsDyg/100-4388.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mJn3rpc)
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It will be a beauty Taylor!! What a neat project. As always, your craftmanship is perfect.
dave
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Looking great Taylor. Did I mention I have an in-the-white flint lock that needs polishing?
That stock is wonderful- as-are the parts.
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I started chequering the grip Sunday afternoon, and spent all day today finishing it up. Is it perfect? Not even close. Is it better than Sam's? ...by a long shot!! I realized when I had finished, that the original was a coarser pattern; maybe 16 or 18/inch. I did this one 20/" 'cause that's what I have in 60 degree cutters. The original I copied has a double border too, but I settled at one, where usually I have no border. Here's a couple of pics...
(https://i.ibb.co/18sNr09/100-4422.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t8Z6qHb)
(https://i.ibb.co/BPHTQrM/100-4424.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z5WPB7v)
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Taylor, that is a beautiful piece of work . My compliments to you :) Thank you for sharing.
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Can't wait to see this one.... AL
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Such fine work.Always a delight to both owner and onlooker.One thing is sure,nothing like this quality ever came out of St.Louis back in "the day".
Well done,sir.Well done indeed.
Bob Roller
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Thank you my friends. Bob, your observation is noted. In the images I have of this Hawken rifle, the chequering is obviously done either in a hurry or by someone without a lot of skill or attention to detail. Maybe a little of both. There was no attempt to bring outlining lines together where they should junction; there are many run-overs; there are lots of divergent lines that should be parallel, etc. This rifle also has either been refinished by someone who removed the original finish with course sandpaper, leaving the entire surface covered with fine scratches, or it left the shop that way. I have only had one original rifle in my hands, thanks to the thoughtfulness of Don Stith in 2007 at Dixon's Fayre. The wood of that rifle was prepared for finishing much better than the one I have emulated, but it still falls well short of what I would have thought would be an appropriate finish. Likely, the Dixon's judges critique of me applies here: "needs to see and handle more original rifles."
My finishes are far from perfect, but I still think I should give it my best effort.
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Nicely executed, Taylor. Bravo! ;D
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Beautiful work Taylor :)
Runar
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These are the coolest of the Hawkens.
As always Taylor has done a great job.
Dan
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Really beautiful work!!
Could you post a list of the metal parts used?
Best regards
Rolf
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Dang Taylor, That's looking Good!!! :o
John
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Many thanks again, folks, for your support.
Rolf: Here's a list of the parts I used.
From Track of the Wolf:
Hooked breech plug and tang: PLUG-JB-18-3
Butt plate: BP-Hawk-JB-I
Lock: LOCK-JB-R
Entry thimble (rod pipe) Traditional Hawken ramrod pipe for 7/16" rod
Lock bolt escutcheon: SP-HLB-I
Rear Sight: RS-PA-237
Double set riggers: TR-LR-1400
Trigger guard: TG-Hawk-L-I
Barrel keys (2 of 'em): KEY-36-I
Barrel: Colerain .62 cal tapered 1 1/8 - 1" x 36" (cut to 34"at muzzle end)
From Muzzle Loader Builder's Supply:
Nose cap: FEC-181-1 1/8" steel ( I welded up the barrel cut out to increase the depth of the web)
Under rib (hollow) 16618
Hand made parts from my shop:
Front sight: German silver blade/copper base
Tang bolts: To match counter bored holes - 10 x 32 tpi
Lock bolt: 10 x 32 tpi
Barrel key escutcheon plate: .062" thick steel
Toe plate: .040" thick steel
Rib retaining rivots (4)
Nose cap retaining screw: 8 x 40 tpi
Diopter tang sight: staff 1/4" x 80 tpi, lock nut, windage adjustment screw 6 x 40 tpi (thanks again Bob Roller for the tap and die!)
Ramrod: handmade hickory tapered 1/2" to ~ 7/16"
Rod tip for small end: .435" threaded 8 x 32
What'd I miss?
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What'd I miss?
The hours.
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Taylor,
What is a JB-R lock?
Bob Roller
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Bob,
It's a Davis Hawken lock. It's quite a fine lock - nothing like one of yours, but quite adequate. The hammer is so recognizable that I cannot resist filing it to a more Hawkenish shape. The cup needs to be deepened, the nose split, and some of the steel cut away to reveal a nicer outline. But the plate is correct, near as I can tell, and the guts are ok. The plate is nicely ground inside and out, so there's not much more work to do to make it good.
Factory Davis hammer...with outline of filing mods.
...after filing.
Well, you can see that I'm having trouble placing the old pictures back in the text, but I guess it'll have to do.
(https://i.ibb.co/51J0mwX/100-4367.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kGP7jvV)
(https://i.ibb.co/Q6Y3RsQ/100-4368.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p34B8Cw)
image upload (https://imgbb.com/upload)
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Taylor,
The Davis lock was at one time the Ron Long lock and it follows one of my earlier styles of mechanism for these locks. It is a good choice.I have bought these plates and hammers over the years from Ron as well as Davis who was his successor.
Can you post full length photos of this rifle for the rest of us to admire?
Also,I think I sent you a post about the 1/4x80 T&D. Keep them and if ever I need them I will holler.
Bob Roller
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always inspiring to see your work, Taylor. Especially the fact that you're willing to share info. Gives us nubes (and rubes) a goal, and a partial roadmap to get there, the rest is up to us.
And your mini-tutorial for the hammer came just as I've been looking my Davis LH lock, wondering if I should make any changes. Guess what I'll be doing next?
Thanks again
JimB
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Jim, I derive a huge amount of pleasure and inspiration from this web site. I can safely say that this site, and all you builders who post images of your work, is the single most important influence in the rejuvenation of my own building. I am ever inspired to strive for better workmanship as I see the bar being raised by the many talented contributors here.
Bob, I recognize that Davis lock is a continuation of Ron Long's lock. I feel that it is every bit as good as the Golcher locks that Hawken used. I'll post a picture of two when the rifle is finished. I still have to pack harden the hardware, and rust blue the barrel and tang. the stock is finished. I'm also finishing up that diopter tang sight. Patience my friend!
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Taylor,
I'd say the Long/Davis lock is probably a more precisely fit lock than the Golcher.
I had a new,never used Golcher and it was not much of a lock.Also have examined
original locks fro Hawken rifles and one pistol while visiting Tom Dawson in the 1968 to
1976 time period.Nothing remarkable about them and the Ashmore on his Hoffman&Campbell
was a real clunker.Good looking externally but pathetic internally.I copied it and it was a real
bug in the soup to recreate all the botched workmanship.Same goes for the triggers.
From what I have seen in the limited pics you have posted,your rifle will easily surpass any
thing that was made in St.Louis back in "The Day".
Bob Roller
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That bull looks ready to be castrated! ;D
Think it'll be nick-named.....one hung low....... :D :D :D
Marc
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The stock I stained with Ferric Nitrate dissolved in water, and finished with hot bees wax. I doubt Sam ever did this, preferring varnish for his own work, but I used the finish on my own Hawken rifle, and I've used it hard now for two hunting seasons, and it has stood up so well in nasty circumstances, that I decided to finish this one the same way. After final burnishing of the wood following the staining process, I heated the wood with a hot air heat gun, and melted bees wax onto the surface, doing a small area at a time, and heating the wood until it would suck up no more, before moving on the the next area. After the entire stock was coated with wax, I reheated it and rubbed it hard with a towel to remove the surface wax...done! All of the inlets have been likewise soaked with wax.
Taylor,
Not only does the finish look outstanding but I think it would be a good choice for the wet and humid hunting conditions here in Florida. I'm pretty hard on finishes on my hunting rifles. I hunt in heavy cover here and I always seem to be getting scratches and scuffs on them. With the bee's wax soaked in the wood so thoroughly, wouldn't there be a problem getting stain into the wood if a touch up needed to be done?
Mole Eyes
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If you're going to scratch it so deeply that you penetrate the AF, you'll be into unsoaked wood anyway. AF stain goes very deep. You can likely touch up any scratch with AF and then rewax. You can add new was anytime, and you can't all too much. You wipe off the excess with the wood hot and with a towel. An example of this was the chequering I did. Naturally, I completely finished the stock before I started cutting the chequering, and when I was finished with the cutting, I simply applied AF, blushed it good, and scrubber it with a stiff bristle brush. there was enough wax in the surrounding wood, that I did not have to add any new wax to the new cut chequering. It finished up to perfectly match the surrounding wood. I really doubt you'd be scratching your gunstock as deeply as I cut this chequering.
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Taylor,
Thanks. I'm going to give our bee's wax method a try on this hunting rifle. It sounds like a very good approach for a rifle that is hard used in a wet climate.
Mole Eyes
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I got the idea several years ago at our BC Rendezvous at heffley Creek, from Cody Tetachuck. He showed me a longrifle he'd finished with bees wax, and I was very impressed with the look and feel of it. It was not in the least sticky, but very dry, smooth, and sealed. Water beaded on it, and rolled off.
I'm sure you'll like it too.
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Heat gun and beeswax. Heat and apply. keep applying wax as long as the wood sucks it up. If the wood gets really hot, the internal moisture causes the wax to foam on the surface. But then as the wood cools, it really sucks the wax in.
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I have used that method of finishing as well. I did some carving after finishing, and the wood worked like a dream. Beautifully smooth details. I will bet that you noticed a difference when checkering ! I used a nice amber toned beeswax, and the wax actually soaked all the way through into the barrel channel. Excellent penetration. That was 8 years ago, and the gun is used in harsh conditions [ moose hunting] but still looks great.
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Taylor, you are putting bad ideas into people's heads.
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I got the idea from Gary Brumfield. He apparently used this finish on a number of rifles.
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Now everyone will want a pistol grip Hawken.
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Of course they do!
I know just where they could order one, too.
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I'd like mine in .54, maple stock, chequered grip, lollipop sight, and beeswax finish.
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I don't think these cap guns will catch on. ;D
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:D :D
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I finally finished the diopter tang sight to my satisfaction. I'll rust blue it to match the tang and barrel. The lateral adjustment screw is #6 x 40 tpi. There was no need to make it with a finer thread. Micro adjustments are possible with it as it is. I'm not sure how large to drill the aperture - it's at .0625" right now, but I suspect it'll need enlarging, to allow more light. Recommendations??
(https://i.ibb.co/0VC4wkd/100-4426.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dJPChSz)
(https://i.ibb.co/gSBKqr3/100-4429.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PcfHXrN)
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Taylor,
I use a small taper pin reamer to enlarge the aperture in the few tang sights I have made.
The size is 6/0.I ream the hole until the fuzz vanishes and then quit.
Bob Roller
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You can do a test with some scrap. Set up a false sight on similar thickness metal, same distance from your eye. You can use a piece of thin plate set into a glob of modeling clay stuck to the wrist. Experiment with hole size until you get the clarity you want.
An aperture sight of proper dimension will make the front sight AND the bull clear and in focus at the same time.
The aperture itself should be countersunk from the back so that the metal is very thin at the hole. If the hole is thru thick metal, it's like looking thru a tunnel, with reflections and fuzziness as the result.
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.062 would be about right for target, but probably a little small for hunting in dim light. I think .090 would be better for hunting. An interchangeable aperture would even be better. By the way, great job, so far. I'll be following this all the way. Thanks for sharing.
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Any thought as to the surface next to your eye being too polished and causing a glare?
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Good morning Taylor.
I would shoot the rifle with the 1/16", if its just a daylight target rifle 1/16 should be good.
For hunting I use a much larger hole once the light drops in the timber etc and the target is something other than black on white seeing the target gets difficult.
This reduces the secondary lens effect but allows enough light to pickup front sight and target. It depends on the person looking through the sight. I read a quote attributed to Sam Hawken in which he stated it did not matter what sight be put on the rifle the customer would change it....
One other thing that some here might find interesting is that a "ghost ring" sight requires more light than an 5/8 or larger eyecup with a hole near .100" in hunting situations since its impossible to see the outline of the ghost ring in low light. No, I don't hunt in the dark. However, where I live and where Taylor lives there are things that can cause "problems" in the night when out camping or hunting and it might be necessary to use the rifle in self-defense.
I would also point out that given the work in a sight of this sort that the owner take it off while hunting and use it for target only. To encourage this you might leave it 1/16" ;D
Dan
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Very nice work on the sight BTW
Dan
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I appreciate the input on the sight. When I first made the staff and the disc attached, I cut a 1/4" hole. This was before I installed the slide adjustment with it's 1/16" hole. With the 1/4" hole in the disc, I was amazed at how clear both the front and rear sight appeared. Another bonus was I had set the front and rear sight in the centre of the barrel, and the diopter aligned them perfectly. This means that I got the tang sight installed dead centre and that the adjustment slide is likely redundant. The rifle is going to Alaska and likely Colorado for big game, and I agree with Dan, that it is likely a smart move to take the diopter off when hunting, to be reserved primarily for target shooting, which is what I believe Sam Hawken had in mind when he designed these pistol grip rifles.
Now to pack harden the hardware, and finish the barrel.
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Taylor,
I use a small taper pin reamer to enlarge the aperture in the few tang sights I have made.
The size is 6/0.I ream the hole until the fuzz vanishes and then quit.
Bob Roller
I have that reamer, I think, Bob. I guess I'll take it over to Taylor - if he gets me to help him sight in the rifle, of course.
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I pack hardened the hardware this morning. I made my crucible out of a piece of exhaust stack from a big diesel truck, and cooked the parts in wood charcoal in a fir and birch fire for two and a half hours. This was my first attempt and I am not unhappy with the results. Jerry Huddleston has been a great help in this process, and I want to publicly thank him. I also want to thank Ron Kole whose fire pit, and firewood I used. Between the two of us, we got 'er done, and enjoyed a morning of sitting by the fire palavering. I have some more experimenting to do but I think I'm on the right track. I got a lot of greys with occasional blasts of blue surrounded by other rainbow colours. When I was done, I baked the parts in a toaster oven at 375 deg F. for one hour, and that amplified the colours and provided a nicer background than the light grey. So here's the result:
This is prior to oiling, right out of the oven.
(https://i.ibb.co/8Yqhdq9/100-4453.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hh6Jx6q)
The nose piece. those are not scratches but lint from the oil rag.
(https://i.ibb.co/4g4YrYr/100-4458.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bRN2929)
Trigger guard:
(https://i.ibb.co/sFYZQsd/100-4465.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P5Hd41v)
Breech plug:
(https://i.ibb.co/1RKLXfM/100-4463.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L968gzr)
..and butt plate.
(https://i.ibb.co/njBCSjM/100-4471.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4p2dxpR)
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WOW!!!!!
Bob
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OUTSTANDING!I KNOW all on this forum want to see the finished rifle when
you put it back together.
Bob Roller
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and - I'M GOING TO SHOOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Those look great Taylor.
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This rifle is finally finished. I started it in September, and it's been quite a project. But I am happy with the outcome, and now I get to sight it in. There's a new thread started about attaching hollow underribs, and as you may recall, this one is hollow and riveted to the barrel. I am happy to report that it has not loosened in the least from the building process which included running the rod hole drill through the pipes. Here's some pictures of the finished rifle...
(https://i.ibb.co/ZxqPvZt/100-4476.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vk0Gftg)
(https://i.ibb.co/5nH7pLX/100-4477.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KLv14Wc)
(https://i.ibb.co/NZhFCrh/100-4478.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vZ5cqh5)
(https://i.ibb.co/qjQMLRy/100-4479.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C8G5pn1)
(https://i.ibb.co/1KmcTzS/100-4481.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y5Q2q43)
(https://i.ibb.co/9ZvXYp7/100-4482.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0sXNJnx)
(https://i.ibb.co/C8NbLpf/100-4485.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fFBkJVs)
(https://i.ibb.co/xLnB448/100-4501.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W5rMTTp)
(https://i.ibb.co/X8vjnJs/100-4502.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rs1FBy6)
(https://i.ibb.co/PjJBHDZ/100-4503.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4tCBr1Z)
(https://i.ibb.co/NF33mBc/100-4505.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p1PPRFY)
(https://i.ibb.co/2kGWxmt/100-4506.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YLHPmYk)
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Very Very nice! Jeremiah Johnson would have wet himself if he found this rifle in Hatchet Jack's frozen hands!
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Looks like a fine sporting rifle from an English shop to me.
An OUTSTANDING job on a rifle that is not easily reproduced.
Congratulations and I would make one but I can't don't half as
well so I will stand back and admire the efforts of one who can and did
make it.
Bob Roller
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Taylor, That rifle is just flat out gorgeous!
And the finish is perfect for it!
Congratulations,
John
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Your rifle is a winner Taylor!! I love it.
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Fantastic Taylor!!! Every part is as close to perfection as a human can come.
dave
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Very nice work Taylor. As usual, you set a very high bar!
Thanks for the pictures.
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Very nice!
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Like I told you in the pm,you build a Fine Hawken gun,bro.Yep,ol Jermia J woulda walked stiff legged for a spell if'n he got one like that.Best regards,Dave ;D
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That turned out right nice Taylor! You sure have an eye for the architecture. You should beam with pride.
Curtis
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Nice
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Great work Taylor. I really like it. The colors on the steel parts are near perfect IMO.
Dan
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PS I am hoarding the photos ;D
Dan
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welllll, I guess it'll do, in a pinch. ;D
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Looks great from where I stand. How many lines per inch is the checkering?
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Grand Taylor. You have the bar set very high for yourself and is something for other builders to aspire to.
A truley fine rifle gun .
Bob in Duncan
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Awesomesauce! ;)
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Looking great Taylor - now it needs some "shootin-in".
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Daryl, it looks too big a bore for you to be shooting with your delicate old frail body.
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Yeah - I think this comes under the heading of "I understand that many people judge others by their own infirm countenance". hahahahahahaha
Just kidding - it will be fun, but rest assured Taylor won't be putting in any larger working loads through it, just light loads to test function as the new owner can work up his own loads. If I had it for a week, along wiht some .610" to .615" balls, I could definitely find it's sweet spot.
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I appreciate everyone's comments on the rifle. it is so unique - it's a marvelous design! Let me say, perhaps the Cadillac of the percussion half stocked rifle.
I know what my own rifle of same bore likes, and I'll be trying loads around that....613" pure lead ball, .023" cotton patch with mink oil, Lehigh Valley, and Mr. Flintlock, and between 80 and 140 grains FFg GOEX Cartridge black powder. Mine likes 127 gr. 2Fg. It'll be a pleasant day at the range. But have to wait for Monday or Tuesday next week...our annual rendezvous is this weekend, and I'm the Booshway.
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Outstanding !Looks like you nailed it!..The critters in Alaska don't have a chance Now!
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Wow, great job!
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Excellent work. I am curious about the finished weight??
Mike C
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I shoot a Bill Large 58 cal Hawken with a 36 inch barrel/
Bob Roller Lock.
120 grains of 2ff /1.5 inch groups at 100 yards!
I have enjoyed it since 1981.
Rickp
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Beautiful gun Taylor!!!!!! I am a new to checkering and am curious as to why you checker after the finish is on, and do you then put a thin coat on the checkering when you are finished with it? Also, when you look through the peep are you looking through the rear and front sights as well?
Thanks, great gun!!!
Robby
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Taylor, Just came across this thread. Beautiful rifle, great job, your client will be very pleased and a very lucky person. Al
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It's .62 cal. with a 34" x 1/8" - 1" tapered Colerain barrel.
Nice work Taylor, once the customer gets this little squirrel bore sighted in he probably will want you to make a big bore to go with it ;D
Dennis
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I had the first barrel Bill Large made after he got his big shop operational in 1958.
It was a 58 caliber octagon 1"x33" with a 1:44 twist.He stenciled it "Texas squirrel rifle"
and said he didn't know if it was any good or not. I made up a light target/hunting rifle
with it,walnut half stock and silver trim. It was a winner from the first competitive event
it was used in.
Bob Roller
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Sorry to be late in offering congratulations Taylor but I've been away working a lot - plus I've seen it in the flesh and already told you what a fantastic job you did. It really is something. I don't know how you can make yourself turn it over to the customer!
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Nice stuff, I like the case hardening info as well.
Coryjoe
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Excellent for Taylor is routine. Taylor. How much refitting did you have to do after the case hardening, especially on the butt plate?
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Hi Taylor--very nicely done---I do appreciate the checkering as I know
who hard it is to do--more information on the checkering would
be good such as what tools you used for spacing ect
Sydney
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Welllll, I guess it's OK. ;D
My new favorite, contemporary Hawken!
Great job Taylor,
Jeff
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Thanks again guys. You've asked some interesting questions, and made some astute observations.
In 1979, Don Robinson taught me to chequer after the second to last coat of finish was applied. There are several good reasons for this. The darkened wood shows the cut lines you've made much sharper and clearer than if you tried to do it on dry unfinished wood. The finish hardens the wood, making the cuts cleaner without making fuzzy diamonds. When you are done, as in the case of this rifle, an application of Ferric Nitrate to the now raw-again wood, a blush, and a single application of bees wax, and the job is finished. In addition to the bees wax, I applied a couple coats of hard paste wax - in this case TreWax - and gave the chequering a good scrub with a stiff toothbrush. This polished the chequering and gives the stock an overall smooth and well protected finish coat.
I used 60 degree Gunline chequering cutters. The spacing is 20/inch because that's what I have. I used a single cutter, and a two line cutter where both cut...no smooth side, as I often use with modern style chequering. These cutters cut deep and fast. I made a minimum of three passes over everything, and in some places I needed to add a forth and fifth pass. I try not to get it done in the first couple of passes...I like to see the chequering go down gradually. This chequering is flat topped - the diamonds do not come to a point. It is not so 'grippy' as modern pointed chequering, but adds a lot of stability and class to the stock, and is HC/PC. I finished each line as it ends against the border with a 60 degree parting chisel. Sam Hawken didn't bother but it seemed unfinished to my eye that way. I added the second border line because the original had the same.
The tang sight is used in conjunction with the rear and front sight. Though I have not fired the rifle yet, I have played with the diopter sight, and find that it clarifies the relationship between the two barrel sights. Also, when you elevate the tang sight, it makes the 'Kentucky windage' (elevation actually) very precise. So shooting the rifle at long range should be much more consistent...time will tell.
I did not further inletting or refitting of any of the parts after the pack hardening, except for scraping built up wax away from most inlet places...lock, triggers, nose piece, tang, toe plate, and barrel keys. I confess that the fit of the butt plate now does not seem to me to be as tight as it was prior to pack hardening, but it still quite acceptable to me.
I have not weighed the rifle yet...I'm curious about that too. I'll let you know...
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Totally beautifull. I think your best..
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So- it's Tuesday- are we shooting today?
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Daryl and I took 'ole Maw Hawken' out for test firing and sighting in yesterday - Canada Day! I used the measures I have on my own Hawken rig - a 90 gr. and a 127 gr. measure. Right off the bench, the rifle shot about a foot high at 59 yds - that's where I happened to set up the target frame. So Daryl held her down, and I filed down the rear sight, eventually getting the rifle to print in the 4" black dot. Without working up a perfect load, or trying various lubes and patch thicknesses, I shot a group in the black with all but one ball cutting a hole...quite acceptable for a brand new barrel. I'll post the details of the load including velocities, if anyone is interested. And incidentally, the rifle weighs 9.9 pounds. And on this clear sunny summer day, the 1/16" hole through the diopter provided good light for target shooting.
Thanks everyone for your comments and kind words. Now back to the bench. I have to build another .62 cal rifle, but this time a Jaeger for a young woman from Switzerland.
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I've brought this old thread out of the dust because all of the images were pirated. Pls. forgive my vanity!
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What a pleasure to see that gun again.
dave
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What a pleasure to see that gun again.
dave
It was my first time to see it and I'm floored!
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Taylor,
Thanks for resurrecting this thread. It will come in handy since I am putting the parts together for a .58 caliber pistol grip Hawken.
David
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It was my first time to see it and I'm floored!
Same here!
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This rifle was beautiful the first time around and for some reason even more beautiful the second time around!
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Taylor, speaking just for me here, but you can bring this thread back as often as you like. This is my favorite build thread on here, and there are many great ones.
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I agree ! I always enjoy looking at Taylors work. This was (or is ) a great project....LP
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Thank you for restoring the Pictures. I plan to start on a pistol grip hawken(ish)rifle sometime next year. I'll be using the parts you listed. The posting will be a big help. It would be great if you could add Pictures and comments on the New Hawken Your building now.
Best regards
Rolf
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I appreciate the encouragement my friends. For those who have a similar project in planning stages, I would like to bring to the 'fore one of the features of this rifle, and that is the sheer voluptuousness of the grip. It is reminiscent of the English 'bag butt' pistols, with it's roundness, and fullness. Man, does it fill your hand nicely!
When it comes time to do the retro on Sam's percussion Hawken (16" LOP), I'll do some beofre, during and after shots in another thread. I'm surprising myself now with the enthusiasm I'm experiencing for that project. I'll likely do the flint rifle too, at a later date, unless someone buys it as is.
Herb's new thread on aligning the hammer/lock on the percussion Hawken has also stirred some old fire. I think that's what this site is all about!!
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Taylor,it never gets old looking at your work,simply wonderful.Thank you for putting in the time to put the pictures back in on a great thread.Lots of folks future and present use these threads for information and pictures are a big help.
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I was going through my personal messages, which I must confess I frequently forget to do, and found that all of these images have been corrupted and removed AGAIN! Mods: whatzupwitdat?
Anyway, I have restored the images, Rolf, so here you go.
Taylor
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Taylor, if/when you encounter this again, try modifying your message by changing every “http” to “https”. I can’t explain why but it often works.
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When I added SSL certificate (An SSL certificate is a type of digital certificate that provides authentication for a website and enables an encrypted connection) to ALR, old none secure URL's that begin with http: will not display. According to SMF tech support they should, but they don't only secure URL's beginning with https: will display. Almost all of the old photobucket photos began with http: and only fairly recent Photobucket URL's start with https: which should display as they should.
We are still slowly in the process of changing URL's in the virtual library but photos sent via private message using the fttp: URL's will not display and MAY properly display if changed to https:
Hope that helps.
Dennis
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Thanks for the explanation Dennis. The images I used in that old thread were attached using the current system and were not from photobucket. To restore them I simply dragged to my desktop, and then to the "add image to post". A little time consuming, but easier and faster than finding them in my files, copying to desktop, and then adding to the thread. When the photobucket thing happened, it took me days to restore all those old threads. It surprised me how many pictures I've added over the years. But I think it was worthwhile.
You run an excellent site my friend.
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Thanks Rich: I'll keep that in mind, or at least try.
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Nice going through this old thread again Taylor & also seeing Leatherbelly's comments too.
Thank you.
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Hi, Taylor. What a wonderful lot of work here! One correction- your triggers are TR-LR-1300, not the TR-LR-1400 you listed. I like these triggers, too.