AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: E.vonAschwege on March 27, 2014, 10:57:55 PM
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Hey Folks,
I'm building a Beck for a customer and am going to use barrel keys instead of pins. This rifle: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2303.0 is pretty fancy and has keys. I'm wondering if anyone knows, or if the owner can chime in, and tell me whether the keys on this rifle are captured or whether they can pull all the way out. What other rifles from the period used slotted/captured keys? Thanks a bunch,
-Eric
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Eric, There are a number of examples of gunsmiths who used barrel keys. They include:
Christian Beck - Master gunsmith, Bethel, Pa. [J.P.'s son]
Nicholas Beyer - Master gunsmith, Lebanon, Pa. [J.P's apprentice]
John Bonewitz - Master gunsmith, Womelsdorf, Pa. [20 miles or so east of Lebanon]
Leonard Reedy - Master gunsmith, Womelsdorf, Pa. [Bonewitz' apprentice]
I'm sure there are many others.
Regards, HIB
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I cannot really answer your direct question regarding J.P Beck rifles, but I have noted that of all of the American made longrifles that I have closely studied using barrel keys, none have had captured wedge keys. Most had heads on them but some did not meaning that they were just straight "headless keys". About half of these rifles had brass keys and half used iron. Most headed keys went in on the left side (side plate side) with the heads showing on that side. All of the rifles and fowlers I have encountered that used captured keys were European made or later percussion era pieces and usually fowler\smooth bores.
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Eric, I've handled/examined 2 Becks that used keys. The keys were originally not captured or slotted (one replacement key was slotted, but when the barrel was removed you could see it was never pinned). Curiously, one rifle was rather fancy (though less so than the one to which you linked); the other was a plain rifle with wood patchbox.
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Eric,
Of the several J.P. Beck's that I have handled enough to examine the keys, they were not captured but were generally iron and could be pulled all the way out. Most were quiet small and delicate.
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Several makers from here ( WV) use this set up. This one is from a Frederick Sheetz Rifle.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1017.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf295%2Flongrifle66%2FFrederickSheetzContractRifle013_zpsa1a0a17a.jpg&hash=f48410cf24cb453b72d9b53756e1db1a2f711530) (http://s1017.photobucket.com/user/longrifle66/media/FrederickSheetzContractRifle013_zpsa1a0a17a.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1017.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf295%2Flongrifle66%2FFrederickSheetzContractRifle009_zps943392c4.jpg&hash=e20c9cc4f70aa157ed338ed88f186398d2a6d9dd) (http://s1017.photobucket.com/user/longrifle66/media/FrederickSheetzContractRifle009_zps943392c4.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1017.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf295%2Flongrifle66%2FFrederickSheetzContractRifle047_zpsd31e958f.jpg&hash=001464d9f088004c3a44abe83428da6c85d2cff8) (http://s1017.photobucket.com/user/longrifle66/media/FrederickSheetzContractRifle047_zpsd31e958f.jpg.html)
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Hi Eric,
I just pulled one of the keys and it is slotted but not captured. tim
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I would like to add that a number of Virginia golden age rifles that I have had the opportunity to examine did have captured keys. Very few later rifles had this but used anything from iron, brass, copper and wood keys to retain the barrel.
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Thanks everyone for your replies on captured barrel keys. It sounds like there was a good mix of captured and non-captured keys between makers. I'm a fan of them, as it's one less thing to potentially get lost. Thanks again,
-Eric
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I didn't know about captured keys and came pretty close to damaging a rifle by trying to
force it out before I realized it. Lucky I didn't break it out of the forearm. Almost a tough
lesson because it was on my best rifle.
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I didn't know about captured keys and came pretty close to damaging a rifle by trying to
force it out before I realized it. Lucky I didn't break it out of the forearm. Almost a tough
lesson because it was on my best rifle.
Same here, plus I was confused about the meaning "Captured Keys". Until recently I thought that was rifles that had a solid inlay covering the pin that held the barrel in place. I did not realize it was the slotted ones, that had a retainer through the slot into the stock that kept you from losing the key. Most of the rifles I had, someone already had that retainer removed.
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In the Valley Forge Museum display of rifles used during the Revolutionary War, when I visited there very early in 2013.the bottom rifle in the case had I think three small barrel keys on it, but it may have been four. The barrel was Octagon to Round and actually looked nicer or higher quality than the rest of the rifle, except the keys. The short description of the rifle did not include the maker, but it did say it was a Virginia Rifle.
I asked at the Information Desk about this rifle and a few more of the rifles and muskets. So they got a hold of the Ranger that was their "Gun Guy," but he could do nothing more than read the short notes as I had. So unfortunately this is all the information I could get on that rifle.
Gus