AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Skychief on June 26, 2014, 02:57:16 AM
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Hello all.
I've been reading about some cleaning routines here and see that many use a toothpick in their touch holes when filling the bore with water or some magic concoction.
I'm not new to the theory and have tried several times to clean a flinter in this way.
I have NEVER had Toothpick seal well enough to hold back the water in the the bore for more than a minute or so (maybe at best). Then, it starts to seep. The escaped water from my bores LOVE to migrate under the lockplate. Wonderful!!!
So, the times I have tried this method, I have had to strip down lock, stock and barrel in the end. I may as well start with a bucket of water for the old pump and flush method.
My question is "What am I missing"?
There are times I want to give the bore a cleaning with this method.
Any advice, hints, help very appreciated.
Best regards, Skychief.
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I use the toothpick method, but I take my lock out first. I then put the toothpick into the vent-hole and pack a paper towel inside and around the lock mortise to keep the leakage to that area at a minimum. I don't put a lot of water in my bore, just enough so that when I run my cleaning brush up and down the water flows through it. I then dump the water out, pull the toothpick - wipe of any seepage - stick a pipe cleaner into the vent hole - and go to swabbing the bore out until clean. Just my way of doing it. At the very end of the cleaning I run a half cotton ball down to the breech and with my patch puller I retrieve it after giving it a little turn. I actually do the half cotton ball twice since I have the other half right there.
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I save a few barn burner matches and when I clean I remove the lock and whittle one end of the match to a point. Stick it in and gently tap it in with a brad hammer that hangs next to my bench. After I pull it out, I cut about 1/8" off and re-whittle and it's ready for the next time or next rifle if I've been using more than one.
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I have NEVER had Toothpick seal well enough to hold back the water in the the bore for more than a minute or so (maybe at best). Then, it starts to seep. The escaped water from my bores LOVE to migrate under the lockplate. Wonderful!!!
You must be using the wrong type toothpick. I use the round toothpicks not the thinner tapered square/rectangular shaped ones.
I stick one (or one half of one) in the touch hole, fill barrel almost full of water and have left them for at least 20 min with no leakage. In fact if I ease a loose patch down the barrel it still does not leak or blow the toothpick out.
Dennis
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Or, you can put the toothpick in the vent (lock removed), pour in a little water and wait a few minutes. The wood will swell and seal the vent. Like others said before me, use the round kind. You can also soak the toothpick for a minute before inserting it and it will swell faster.
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Remove lock, wipe barrel at touch hole, insert round tooth pick, tap tap with small mallet or hammer, fill with water and clean lock. dump water and pull tooth pick. wipe 4-6 times w wet patch, dry, oil.
TC
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I'm afraid of hitting the toothpick with even a small hammer. I would hate to break it off in the vent.
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I usually just take off lock, lay rifle across two sandbags on bench with muzzle a little lower than breech and touch hole facing down and swab with soppy wet patches till its clean. If the toothpick leaks that stuff will eat off the stock finish. I take wet brush to lock while it's off, dry it and re oil. Wipe around touchhole with wet patch, dry and re oil barrel. I ALWAYS clean in field as soon as I'm done shooting. Too many times I have gotten home to find some emergency waiting. This way my rifle is always cleaned before the red devil can get to it.
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I have had good luck with one of those screw clamps with the soft rubber pads on the parts that go against the clamped object. They seal up good for me and dont mar the gun. Bessey is the brand that I use and I bought it at one of the big box hardware stores. It wasnt expensive and it works to seal the vent when you want to soak the bore for awhile.
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I break the toothpick in half and tap it in and keep an eye on it, because I had a nasty little leak there once.
I'd never fret over breaking the toothpick/matchstick off in the hole, because there couldn't be a much easier task than removing a splinter of wood from a drilled hole in steel. (I suggest a paperclip before resorting to a flash hole sized drill.)
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A patch on the ramrod in a wet bore rammed in pretty fast will generally blow out a broken plug. Don't ask me how I know.
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I use a round tooth pick inserting it into the touch hole GIVING IT A LITTLE TWIST as it is installed. With the lock removed I too stuff the mortice with paper towel. Funnel into bore my concoction of 1\3 murphy's oil soap and 2\3 alcohol.
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I use a round tooth pick inserting it into the touch hole GIVING IT A LITTLE TWIST as it is installed. With the lock removed I too stuff the mortice with paper towel. Funnel into bore my concoction of 1\3 murphy's oil soap and 2\3 alcohol.
This is exactly what I do, except I use a little dawn soap. I've been using a round toothpick in the flash hole since 1975 and never had a problem.
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No problem here using a round toothpick either. Break it in two and tap the pointy end in with my tiny hammer or whatever tool handle is laying nearby.
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I also use round picks if doing a quickly cleaning like this - at rendezvous. The hotter the day, the more quickly the gun must be cleaned, so the beer in the cooler doesn't get too warm sitting there, unattended. :D
If the vent is to large to be sealed with a standard maple round pick, might I introduce you to Jim Chambers - his white lightning liners will remedy that fault.
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All good advice. I remove the lock and take a "clipped" round toothpick, not the round/square ones, but the true round ones. I tap it in with a plastic hammer. Two additional things: I've found packages of this "gum-like" stretchy, sticky material that is sorta like modeling clay. The toothpick is pushed through a small wad that sorta seals the liner. I also stuff a paper towel in the mortise and wrap it around the breech area and tape it.
I fill the bores full and let stand. There is normally a bit of seeping that is soaked up by the towel. Rarely is any dripping seen on the floor under the gun. A little seepage won't hurt.
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Hey Davidguys, thanks for the replies! You have given me reason to try again. Maybe I wasn't pecking them in hard enough.
Smylee Grouch, do you have any pictures of the screw clamp apparatus available to post here?
Thanks again boys, Skychief.
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for screw-clamp picture - see the actual thing at Track's site, where they are probably cheaper than you can make them. www.trackofthewolf.com
I used one of the 'devices' for a while, but went back to dunking the breech into a container of water, usually a water filled 2 1/2 pound coffee can. The device was a pain in the posterior to keep from leaking, or to keep flushing properly.
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The clamp I use isnt the one sold by TOTW. The one I use just clamps over the hole with the lock removed. It has a soft rubber pad where it goes against the stock and barrel. So far it has sealed the vent with out any leaks but I still put a small wad of paper towel or some dry cleaning patches in the lock mortice just in case. You cant flush the bore using this as you can using the ones sold by TOTW but you can let your water or solvent soak in if you so wish. When I'm at home I clean as Daryl does by removing barrel and flushing in and out. I'm sorry but I don t have any pics of the clamp but any good hardware store would carry them in the tool/woodworking section.
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Thanks Smylee.
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Really? another non period contraption to keep track of, and worry about working. ROUND TOOTHPICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hungry Horse
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Really? another non period contraption to keep track of, and worry about working. ROUND TOOTHPICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hungry Horse
Did ya' know round ones were (and are) made by putting a log on a lathe and turning the log down until a perfectly round toothpick was produced? I think that's how plywood was invented, too. ;D 8)
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Really? another non period contraption to keep track of, and worry about working. ROUND TOOTHPICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hungry Horse
Whoa Hungry Horse, Whoa!
Just asking out of curiosity. Willing to give period correct round picks another try. ;D
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Sorry. Its just that I went through all that tool, gun, gear, collecting, and finally figured out, that if thats the focus of your "shooting", you don't really even need to shoot. You can have all the fun you're after, by just collecting all the cool gadgets that are on the market. And just stay home, and fiddle with them. I finally got rid of 90% of it, and learned to do things more the way they were done. Its not about PC at all, its about simplification. I was spending all my time a events sorting, hunting for, and figuring out how to carry all my stuff. Heck I was thinking of buying a bigger truck, just to haul all my stuff. I'm having a lot more fun now, and made a bunch of other people happy, because I sold them all my cool stuff.
Hungry Horse
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For once, Hanshi has it wrong. Popeye punched a tree and it came down as toothpicks.
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IMO half the fun of ML is the accoutrements and meddling. If I just wanted to shoot I'd only have a .22. The other half is seeing all the paraphanelia and tinkering producing results either in the field or on the range.
TC
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We're boys with toys.
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The clamp that I have used is just an alternative to a round tooth pic for those who dont want to use a round tooth pic. Another clamp that works is a small quick clamp made by Irwin with soft rubber pads that will seal the vent off too. A sparrow feather will work at times too. Use of any of these methods, if they work for you, shouldnt get anyone too worked up. I think we should save our energy for saving our sport and the second amendment.
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First, I use a ROUND toothpick, not a "square" one. After all, the flash-hole is ROUND.
I remove the lock and stuff some paper towels in that area, then lean the rifle to it's left and pour super-hot, very slightly soapy water down the muzzle... and let it sit a few minutes to loosen up the "crud" in the bore.
Then I turn the rifle over above the toilet and let the blackish, dirty water and crud run out. Then I run a .50 caliber cleaning nylon bore-brush up and down in the rifle's bore, then add more CLEAN (not "soapy") super-hot water down the bore and let it sit a minute or two... then dump it out and, again, run the nylon bore-brush on a wooden ram-rod up and down in bore several times and, again, after dumping out the water in the toilet.
At that point, the barrel is kinda hot and the bore is usually "clean". But to check it, I let a very tiny LED "light" slide down the bore to check how clean the bore probably is. If it's clean, I remove the round toothpick from the flash-hole liner and run a clean, wet-with-very-hot-water cotton-covered pipe cleaner in and out of the flash-hole liner several times to clean out the flash-hole liner.
Then I blow compressed air from my small air-compressor into the flash-hole liner, then put a new, clean round toothpick back in the flash-hole liner hole, pour a little more super-hot water down the muzzle and into the bore, then turn the rifle up-side-down over the toilet and dump out any "crud" and water that's still in the bore.
Then, I again blow compressed air down the bore until it's "dry". Then I blow compressed air into the flash-hole liner and alternate back and forth between blowing compressed air down the bore, then into the flash-hole liner until everything is very dry.
I, then, put a clean oily cloth on a jag and push it up and down in the rifle's bore... twisting the ram-rod a quarter-turn after each thrust down & up... and do that at least 8 times so that each area of the bore is touched TWICE by the clean, oily cloth.
Then I put a little oil on a clean, dry pipe-cleaner and push the pipe-cleaner in and out of the flash-hole liner several times to lube that area.
Then I clean and re-oil the lock and re-install it... and then fold-up a paper towel several times, put the paper towel on the floor behind my computer room's door and place the rifle's muzzle on the paper towel... storing it up-side-down so any excess oil will run OUT of the barrel's muzzle while sitting there.
Naturally, when I go to the range, if I'm shooting the Hawken cap-lock that day, I add a percussion cap to the cap-lock's nipple, cock the hammer and pull the trigger thus firing the cap to insure the flash-channel is "clear & clean".
If I am shooting the flint-lock Long Rifle, I put a small amount of FFFFg in the frizzen pan and maybe 10 grains of FFFg in the barrel... and drop the flint on the frizzen to shoot sparks into the frizzen pan... thus firing the priming powder charge which, in turn, fires the light powder load insuring the flash-channel is clean of oil and any "debris"...and that barrel is clear of oil and is "dry" and ready to accept & keep the powder dry.
This is a "longer read" than I intended to post, but this is the whole "story" for cleaning either a percussion cap or a flint-lock rifle... and I have and shoot both. ;)
Strength & Honor...
Ron T.
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For once, Hanshi has it wrong. Popeye punched a tree and it came down as toothpicks.
Natureboy, I stand humbly corrected.
If, like me, one does not have an air compressor, a hair drier along with a plastic funnel does as good a job. I have a hair drier I bought at the Salvation Army Thrift Store for $2.
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No Comment!!!!
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After reading all these complicated procedures, I feel like I am doing something really wrong and abusing my equipment. I usually wipe the bore with a wet patch(just about anything wet) until the patches turn gray(3-5 patches) then a dry patch or two and oil it good with G96. I run the lock under the garden hose. and spray it with G96. After wiping the flats with G96 into the safe she goes. Never had one rust--anywhere in 30yrs. Maybe I should also take the buttplates and patchboxes off for cleaning just to make it take longer than 5min. to clean. After oiling I bounce the rod on the breech plug to feel for solid metal. If it doesn't ping then I might scrape the plug. Obviously I'm not spending near enough time bonding with my rifles.
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After reading all these complicated procedures, I feel like I am doing something really wrong and abusing my equipment. I usually wipe the bore with a wet patch(just about anything wet) until the patches turn gray(3-5 patches) then a dry patch or two and oil it good with G96. I run the lock under the garden hose. and spray it with G96. After wiping the flats with G96 into the safe she goes. Never had one rust--anywhere in 30yrs. Maybe I should also take the buttplates and patchboxes off for cleaning just to make it take longer than 5min. to clean. After oiling I bounce the rod on the breech plug to feel for solid metal. If it doesn't ping then I might scrape the plug. Obviously I'm not spending near enough time bonding with my rifles.
X2 EC. I don't have G96 tho so I use what ever good rust preventative is at hand. Last time was LPS-3.
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No Comment!!!!
He, he, he, he....... ;D
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Really? another non period contraption to keep track of, and worry about working. ROUND TOOTHPICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hungry Horse
Yep.
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First, I use a ROUND toothpick, not a "square" one. After all, the flash-hole is ROUND.
I remove the lock and stuff some paper towels in that area, then lean the rifle to it's left and pour super-hot, very slightly soapy water down the muzzle... and let it sit a few minutes to loosen up the "crud" in the bore.
Then I turn the rifle over above the toilet and let the blackish, dirty water and crud run out. Then I run a .50 caliber cleaning nylon bore-brush up and down in the rifle's bore, then add more CLEAN (not "soapy") super-hot water down the bore and let it sit a minute or two... then dump it out and, again, run the nylon bore-brush on a wooden ram-rod up and down in bore several times and, again, after dumping out the water in the toilet.
At that point, the barrel is kinda hot and the bore is usually "clean". But to check it, I let a very tiny LED "light" slide down the bore to check how clean the bore probably is. If it's clean, I remove the round toothpick from the flash-hole liner and run a clean, wet-with-very-hot-water cotton-covered pipe cleaner in and out of the flash-hole liner several times to clean out the flash-hole liner.
Then I blow compressed air from my small air-compressor into the flash-hole liner, then put a new, clean round toothpick back in the flash-hole liner hole, pour a little more super-hot water down the muzzle and into the bore, then turn the rifle up-side-down over the toilet and dump out any "crud" and water that's still in the bore.
Then, I again blow compressed air down the bore until it's "dry". Then I blow compressed air into the flash-hole liner and alternate back and forth between blowing compressed air down the bore, then into the flash-hole liner until everything is very dry.
I, then, put a clean oily cloth on a jag and push it up and down in the rifle's bore... twisting the ram-rod a quarter-turn after each thrust down & up... and do that at least 8 times so that each area of the bore is touched TWICE by the clean, oily cloth.
Then I put a little oil on a clean, dry pipe-cleaner and push the pipe-cleaner in and out of the flash-hole liner several times to lube that area.
Then I clean and re-oil the lock and re-install it... and then fold-up a paper towel several times, put the paper towel on the floor behind my computer room's door and place the rifle's muzzle on the paper towel... storing it up-side-down so any excess oil will run OUT of the barrel's muzzle while sitting there.
Naturally, when I go to the range, if I'm shooting the Hawken cap-lock that day, I add a percussion cap to the cap-lock's nipple, cock the hammer and pull the trigger thus firing the cap to insure the flash-channel is "clear & clean".
If I am shooting the flint-lock Long Rifle, I put a small amount of FFFFg in the frizzen pan and maybe 10 grains of FFFg in the barrel... and drop the flint on the frizzen to shoot sparks into the frizzen pan... thus firing the priming powder charge which, in turn, fires the light powder load insuring the flash-channel is clean of oil and any "debris"...and that barrel is clear of oil and is "dry" and ready to accept & keep the powder dry.
This is a "longer read" than I intended to post, but this is the whole "story" for cleaning either a percussion cap or a flint-lock rifle... and I have and shoot both. ;)
Strength & Honor...
Ron T.
Oh dear.
I don't know where to start... so I won't.
More power to ye.
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IMO half the fun of ML is the accoutrements and meddling. If I just wanted to shoot I'd only have a .22. The other half is seeing all the paraphanelia and tinkering producing results either in the field or on the range.
TC
Standing Bear,
You would be amazed looking at all of the 'stuff' a dedicated .22 target rifle shooter 'collects' in his or her range-box. ;)
Cheers,
Smoketown
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No, I wouldn't be surprised Smoke. Besides having shot MLs competitively for over 30 years I shot bullseye pistol and coached youth 3 position. ALL sports it seems can get over done with equipment even soccer.
If I "just wanted to shoot" w/ .22s it would take a High Standard Trophy, a Remington 511 ( I could be forced to use a mdl 52 Winchester Sporter if someone wants to force one on me) and a brick of shells. Nada mas.
All should get copies of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, read and discuss them. Other suggested reading are papers of the founding fathers to better understand the background of these precious documents.
Happy 4th !!!
TC
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Dennis
ALR Admin
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With all due respect, I find it incredulous that a leaky toothpick has led to 3 pages of rhetoric and various sub topics!
Mark
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Skychief - try this vacuum plug from the auto store - trim to length - drop hammer on it then clean barrel.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy15%2FBERKUTA%2FP1010810.jpg&hash=a7bc792230249039a3ec85ba1a25bbb09fb67a1a) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/BERKUTA/media/P1010810.jpg.html)
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He is cleaning a flint rifle.
Dennis
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I use a piece of plastic tubing the length of the barrel and fit to garden hose fitting to clean my shotgun. I melted the plastic into a point to make a nozzle. By placing the gun muzzle down I could spray water under pressure into it and let it run out til it was clean. The results left me incredulous. Kind of like pressure washing the bore.
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My father did pretty much the same thing to clean our antique Mississippi Rifle. He connected a copper tube to a garden hose, ran it in to the breach and put the barrel in the wash tray, muzzle down. Then he turned on the water and walked away.
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those whitelightning vents are great.all my rifles and smoothbores have his vent liners.
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Tried the toothpick tonight after some shooting. I am happy to report that all went well!
Seems I just needed to pound the thing in a little harder.
Thanks to all of you.