AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: WadePatton on August 29, 2014, 07:20:30 PM
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Of course i remember before there were turkeys for hunting in this state, but the Wildlife folks re-introduced them (and lots of other critters, elk most recently) and they've been a Wild success. For most of the years that we've been able to hunt them, it was the normal Spring/mating season hunting.
In more recent times we've begun having a Fall turkey season and I do find this quite interesting and would like to get a few for the larder.
BUT THAT, shotgun only is the rule, always has been. I've always thought that a smallish rifle could be most effective and plenty safe on private property. I do understand the hunter density issues of public land/WMA hunting (where shotgun-only rules dominate).
Back in those days when i started thinking a smallish rifle would be quite nice for turkey hunting i was yet in the suppository stages of life so I was thinking sub-25, especially the old-school ones like the Hornet.
BUT NOW that I pour powder down the tube almost exclusively, I'm of the opinion that 40 and down would be a wonderful rule for smokepole hunting of bigbirds on private land in my state.
All this is to say that I'm about to write some letters to the powers that be (and the groups that lobby them) to express this notion. I'm posting here to ask you gentlemen if your state/province/county allows single-ball loadings of any sort for Fall Turkey hunting. AND/OR if it doesn't then would you support such, or do you think it's crazy nonsense?
Our current rules for MLR's is any caliber small game, 36 and up for big game, but no for turkey (turkey is big game here).
Opinions?
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Shotgun or rifle is leagal in my state for turkey's. I have taken gobblers with my 40 Caliber. some states use the no rifle use as a safety issue. in my opinion safety starts with recognition of what your shooting at and where that projectile might end up if you miss.
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Used to be we could use rifles larger than .22LR. But no longer. But as noted in a previous thread we have no gauge limitations on non migratory game so very large gauge shotguns (8ga and 4 ga ) are possiblilites.
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In VA, rifle or shotgun may be used for turkeys with no specific calibers mentioned. However, for the general firearms restrictions for muzzle loaders, the law says that .45 cal or larger must be used for "big game." Technically speaking, turkey are listed as big game along with deer, elk, and bear in the VA regs.
I shot one turkey on a friends' property with a .45 rifle. It would be difficult to screw up a head shot on a turkey from a moderate range methinks.
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Also, I might add that I have no interest in Spring Turkey hunting (as i am fishing at that time) but that is the season our "no rifle" rules originated.
I've walked up on countless gobblers and hens in the Fall whilst pursing furry critters. Be super to be able to _legally_ pot a turkey or two. We have 2 weeks in October now with a quota for each county.
I might actually pursue turkey specifically if i could do so with the "reach" of a 32 cal ball, as opposed to a BLAST and hope high-powered shotshell. Well, squirrels would also be in season and in the same areas so it could be dual pursuit.
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Texas
Fall hens or gobblers rifle larger than .22 LR or shotguns. I've carried my hornet and .40 both when tagged out on deer but don't like either for deer.
Spring gobblers only and shotgun only. I think this is just to reduce the harvest.
TC
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Will you try for the body or head with the rifle? I ask because I do not know. I suppose you could also aim for the neck. I that case I would assume the bigger the ball the better?
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Will you try for the body or head with the rifle? I ask because I do not know. I suppose you could also aim for the neck. I that case I would assume the bigger the ball the better?
I'll take the best shot available, considering all things. Lower neck/neck body junction seem reasonable and less variable than a bobbing head.
But that I emphasize "small ball" guns in order to satisfy their safety concerns which are obvious by the shotgun rule. Yes I understand that a .75 would cover some more "target" and would fully support an "any cal/bore muzzleloader" rule.
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a 32 rb works just fine ;D
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I too believe that something in the 30'ish, up to 40 cal would be ideal for Turkey.
But like your State, my Provinces rules (specifically for Turkey) state "nothing smaller than 20 gauge nor larger than 10 gauge" and you must use #4, #5, or #6 shot (and nothing else - but no specification as to whether it's lead, steel, bismuth or rock salt for that matter) .
Just to illustrate how sometimes "rules make no sense", this very same "Ministry of Natural Resources" rules for Deer with a Muzzleloader have NO RESTRICTIONS unless using "shot".
I could "legally" use a 20 caliber ML for deer as long as I use a round ball or conical.
If I loaded a gun with buckshot it would have to be (minimally) a 62 caliber (not sure how they would interpret a buck and ball load ???)
So while my "soon to be built" 38 caliber is going to become my "deer rifle" (replacing my 40 cal), it is considered inadequate/not sufficient/not proper for Turkey.
I'm glad we have non-hunting bureaucrats making the rules for my natural resources ;)
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For spring gobblers I take either my .36 SMR or my .40 LL. For fall I'll be out for deer with either a .45 or a .50. If I see a turkey in season I'll not hesitate.
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Here in Maryland you can use a rifle in the fall turkey season, which is only in the few far western counties, but spring is shotgun only. We're getting a new statewide 3 day winter season this year, late in January, hen or gobbler, but it's shotgun only as well. I brought up at the public hearings about making small caliber mz's legal for that, but I think I was the only one in the state and they gave me that weird look I always get (been an outdoor writer covering hunting in MD for 22 years, all the DNR guys know me - and how odd I am ;D ).
Go with smaller calibers, I'd hate to think what a .75 ball would do to a turkey. Nothing but beak and tailfeathers left, methinks.
You're missing out if you don't get a smoothbore and hunt 'em in the spring. Go for a few hours then fish the rest of the day. There is NOTHING like calling in a gobbler that's trying to knock your hat off with his voicebox.
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I too believe that something in the 30'ish, up to 40 cal would be ideal for Turkey.
But like your State, my Provinces rules (specifically for Turkey) state "nothing smaller than 20 gauge nor larger than 10 gauge" and you must use #4, #5, or #6 shot (and nothing else - but no specification as to whether it's lead, steel, bismuth or rock salt for that matter) .
Just to illustrate how sometimes "rules make no sense", this very same "Ministry of Natural Resources" rules for Deer with a Muzzleloader have NO RESTRICTIONS unless using "shot".
I could "legally" use a 20 caliber ML for deer as long as I use a round ball or conical.
If I loaded a gun with buckshot it would have to be (minimally) a 62 caliber (not sure how they would interpret a buck and ball load ???)
So while my "soon to be built" 38 caliber is going to become my "deer rifle" (replacing my 40 cal), it is considered inadequate/not sufficient/not proper for Turkey.
I'm glad we have non-hunting bureaucrats making the rules for my natural resources ;)
Our rules recently (10 years or so) changed from the ancient reg requiring 24 cal or better in CF to all CF (and IIRC 40 or 45 was the ML min, now is 36). Also they "streamlined" the seasons (thank Heavens). Used to need a Solunar calendar and an abacus to figger out which weapon was legal in the woods on which day...all season long, plus "no hunt" days in the middle! Now Archery opens on a fixed weekend, then ML, then modern and they all run concurrently until the last day. A big improvement. Whoops, there is a 2-day gap in the middle of Archery, don't know why-doesn't affect me.
But that I met a fellow at my ex's HS reunion (2005-ish) and spent most of the evening talking to him. He was a member of the "lobby group" that leaned on (that's not the terminology they use) the state legislature specifically with regard to game rules/regs. Details escape me now, but I do remember bringing up 3 of the dumbest rules (to my mind) of our game laws. Within a year 2 of those had been changed (one was the caliber restriction). SO, i am serious about putting in some letters to the right people to get things in front of the legislative body--instead of being blown off by legislative staff.
In the meanwhile, I kinda do what i do and figger what eats good is good. So long as there is no shortage of game and there is no monetary/trophy/bragging exploitation on my part and safety parameters are not ignored, I am a sportsman. But also i would never suggest that others do anything but live by the laws of the printed papers ('ceptin' of course in a survival situation), as that might be considered socially irresponsible. We are a self-regulating bunch.
Thanks for the replies everybody.
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there have been several times here that the National wild turkey federation backed out lawing rifles for turkey hunting. but the sportsmen spoke louder.
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Colorado allows rifles in the fall with males and females legal. Spring is shotgu only and gobblers only.
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Colorado allows rifles in the fall with males and females legal. Spring is shotgu only and gobblers only.
this would please me plenty,. Thanks for another model state to cite with Fall rifle/Spring scattershot.
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West Virginia has a strong wild turkey population and the current regulations state that, " rifles, shotguns, handguns, muzzleloaders and bows" are legal for turkey with no weapon distinction between spring and fall seasons. Only gobblers are legal in spring and hunting is only allowed half a day in spring. Afternoons spent stalking wild native brook trout, (another fine sport).
Spring gobbler hunting is the most enjoyable, challenging and most rewarding hunting I've ever done. Being in the mountains on a beautiful spring morning waiting on a sunrise and hearing one or more gobblers greeting the morning. Stalking, calling trying to out maneuver and outwit an old long beard is tremendous sport. Sadly I have had very little time for such things in the last few years, consumed with earning enough to get three kids through college.
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Will you try for the body or head with the rifle? I ask because I do not know. I suppose you could also aim for the neck. I that case I would assume the bigger the ball the better?
I'll take the best shot available, considering all things. Lower neck/neck body junction seem reasonable and less variable than a bobbing head.
But that I emphasize "small ball" guns in order to satisfy their safety concerns which are obvious by the shotgun rule. Yes I understand that a .75 would cover some more "target" and would fully support an "any cal/bore muzzleloader" rule.
. Thanks Wade....sounds like it should work. Might just try it myself this Fall.
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i wishes my state would allow rifles for turkeys
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In Oklahoma the minimum for turkey is .36. I can attest that a .45 RB with a modest charge (40gr FFg) will anchor a bird with a body shot leaving a clean hole and no bloodshot meat.
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Oklahoma, Colorado, Maryland, Virginia, West (BG) Virginia, Texas, presently allow Fall turkey hunting with rifles, where else?
I started looking up state regs, and that's a brutal chore, rooting around through every completely different compilation of regulations and web structures. I'd rather clean your fish. ::)
Alabama and Kentucky appear to be Scatterblaster only. That's as far as I got.
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Wade, I'm with you on that idea., I also live in Tennessee, Lewis County, and I have turkeys feeding on my property, every day. They won't answer or respond to a call, in the Fall, so to be legal you have to find their travel routes and intercept them. A .32 caliber PRB should harvest one easily and not be a danger to your neighbors. It wouldn't tear up much edible meat either. Keep yer powder dry.......Robin ;)
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A large flock roosts very near one of the deer camps I go to. The seasons do not overlap, yet. Those gobblers graze/bug right up around the cabin, leaving gumdrops everywhere. I made the mistake of trying to catch an afternoon buck near the roost, ONCE. Nothing like listening to about 50 large birds get up on roost. It sounded like they all got up off the ground okay, but then they found themselves out of order and all had to swap limbs, twice. Floppin', Flappin', Crashin', Bangin' bunch a Cluckers... (i don't complain about noisy squirrels anymore)
To quote my maternal GMom, "You couldn't hear the devil draggin' chains across the roof!" (tin roof).
Wade, I'm with you on that idea., I also live in Tennessee, Lewis County, and I have turkeys feeding on my property, every day. They won't answer or respond to a call, in the Fall, so to be legal you have to find their travel routes and intercept them. A .32 caliber PRB should harvest one easily and not be a danger to your neighbors. It wouldn't tear up much edible meat either. Keep yer powder dry.......Robin ;)
Maybe you drop a note to the TWF as well. It's the outfit to go through with concerns about game laws. I alluded to it earlier WRT the fellow at that reunion.
http://tnwf.org/our-programs/public-policy
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Hope it's ok to post this link. Great turkey calling! The skit is hilarious!
http://youtu.be/uYYuqJNJv-g
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The most successful strategy for fall turkeys is to find a flock, disburse them then sit down and wait a while, then start calling softly. Find areas with their preferred food source. Around here white oak acorns usually attract them. Turkeys are social creatures and they will soon rejoin their flock. Most likely you will get a response to your calls in the fall this way.
Watching a flock go to roost is very entertaining. They have a pecking order and the best limbs belong to the ones with seniority. They do a lot of maneuvering before they settle in for the night. Ever watch a large group of people being seated at a restaurant? They do the same thing.
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In PA spring turkey shot only not sure what the minimum gauge is? In the fall rifles are OK (.40 for me!)
In NY fall turkey they use dogs to break the flocks, the dogs are trained to return to a "bag", nose out until you call the flock back and take your shot, then they retrieve!
Kevin
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The most successful strategy for fall turkeys is to find a flock, disburse them then sit down and wait a while, then start calling softly... Ever watch a large group of people being seated at a restaurant? They do the same thing.
Yes, but until the state changes the rules, i won't be pursuing Fall turkeys legally if i used my longrifle. So that's what this thread is about.
The limb swapping I talked about. I couldn't see it. I gathered all that info from audible "clues". I could hear them all get up off the ground, and hear them all fuss and maneuver for half a dang 'nother hour--prime deer sneaking into the field time. Oh it was thunderous. :P
Peeple do many social things like birds. ;D
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Also, even if i had a smoothbore sidelock gun, i simply don't care to hunt anything with shot except for regular "wingshooting" of which i do extremely small amounts. IOW i don't use the shotguns I have, having a replica wouldn't change that much. I'm simply a rifle man in rifle territory.
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Adding PA to the Fall Turkey Rifle "YES" column. What about NY? Oh yeah ANYTIME one can hunt with well-trained dogs is an absolute treat.