AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Contemporary Longrifle Collecting => Topic started by: Bob Pearl on January 10, 2015, 04:58:56 PM
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This site has posted pictures of a Bivins rifle made for Frank Burton ,1966. Really nice work.
https://masondixonsouth.wordpress.com/
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Wow factor.....where did he learn to do that. I can't even visualize making
a rifle like that.
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Must have been one of the first guns by John. Shows that everybody starts somewhere.
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John started where most would like to finish.
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What a condescending remark.
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I don't think I've heard any condescending remarks here. I think it's wonderful to have a rifle made by John Bivens, but the one pictured is far from his best work. That's not condescending - it's a valid observation.
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Hi,
It is a beautiful and unique rifle but I agree with Jim and Taylor that it provides a nice comparison with John's later work allowing us to see how much his work matured over the years.
dave
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It was made in 1966. There was just nothing this sophisticated then.
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That was a good year. ;)
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It was made in 1966. There was just nothing this sophisticated then.
Wallace Gusler was doing some pretty fine work by this time. Believe the handmade rifle in the video was from about then.
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Here is another of John Bivens early rifle builds. I contacted the seller who claims John made this piece back in 1963. I consider Mr. Bivins to have been very "gifted" (perhaps highly skilled would say it better) early in his gun building career. It would be fun to see some pictures of some of his later rifles and enjoy the progression of his art! http://www.gunsinternational.com/Contemporary-Flintlock-Kentucky-Rifle-by-John-Bivens-Old-Salem-NC.cfm?gun_id=100486447 It is good to see you back here on the ALR Mr. Bob Pearl! (I have no involvement in the sale of this rifle)
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In Jim's defense, not that he needs me to defend him, I was thinking the same thing he wrote. I was just afraid to say it out loud.
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In a few weeks, I can get around to posting photos of the rifle John built for me in 1977, his first left-handed flintlock rifle. Its a subdued version of the one he made for my former business partner, the late Lewis Blades Sanchez. We shared first, Cumberland Muzzleloading Supply, then changed it to Cumberland Knife & Gun Works, Inc. located in Fayetteville, NC (1972-1999). Lew left in '82 and moved back home to Tampa. The store remained until closing in 1999.
The order was placed in 1974. John was confined by the availability of high-quality left-hand locks. I believe Bud Siler came out with his left-hand locks in late 1976/early 1977. John got a few from Bud, and gave them to a young man that was working under his wing, Monte Manderino. The inside of the lock is marked "MM". John called me early in 1977, and said he'd have it ready by October.
The flintlock longrifles, crossed, on the cover of Gun Digest 1977 features Monte's workmanship on the left, and John's work on the right, made for Lew. Lew's rifle is pictured on pages 27 through 32 of Robert Weil's book, "Contemporary Makers of Muzzleloading Firearms". The "Hunter's Star" on Lew's rifle is made up of ebony and ivory inlays in the wood surrounded by silver wire & pins. Mine is of the same Lancaster-style, steel-mounted, wooden patchbox, Getz barrel, but subdued on the embellishments.
Being Lew's partner for the ten years he stayed in Fayetteville after leaving the service, I was fortunate to meet many other fine artisans and gunmakers, including Carl Pippert, Fred Riley, Wallace Gusler, Frank Burton, Tom Dawson, Jack Haugh, Bob Watts, and Mark Silver. I was also fortunate to hold and admire the wheelock rifle that was a combined effort of the finest of the finest artisans. Its on pages 36 - 41, of Weil's book.
I'll get to photographing John's rifle as soon as I finish photographing an orignal pecussion half-stock rifle, mounted in German Silver and embellished with about a dozen silver inlays that arrived today.. I have been searching the internet for a possible gunmaker to link this rifle to. The inlaid brass plate on the top flat is stamped (1st digit-illegible) "*....P. Hatcher * The name is flanked on the left and right with what looks today like an asterisk "*". I have found a "Commodore P. Hatcher", who was a gunsmith in Belmont County, Ohio (b. 1817 - d. 1888).
I'll post John's rifle on this thread or a new thread in this sub-forum, and the original half-stock in a new thread on the "Antique Gun Collecting" sub-forum here next week. The half-stock displays uperb condition on the wood and the inlays, but the lock and barrel obviously suffered due to lack of care over its one hundred and forty years or so.
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It was made in 1966. There was just nothing this sophisticated then.
Wallace Gusler was doing some pretty fine work by this time. Believe the handmade rifle in the video was from about then.
Well... i don't know. I think he made the documentary gun in 68' , and the truth is it was far from Wallace's finest work either. You know, I read not to long ago that John Bivins stated everything he learned about building rifles he learned from Wallace. So that kind of makes sense actually. One time long ago I actually got to shoot the rifle Wallace made in that video, the gunsmith of williamsburg, I'm sure you have handled it Jim. I was like ... wow... I can't believe I am shooting this gun ...the trigger pull was as if I pulled, and pulled , and pulled and then I pulled a little more, then kapow it went off... and I missed the target. Finely tuned... not. In all fairness to me I should relate that I very rarely miss... it was kind of a crude build not something you would want to carry if you were hungry and needed to kill something to eat for sure : ) . Still cool though, but I'm just saying... If anyone made that Gun today it wouldn't be anything to special. Neat because it was entirely handmade, but other than that...
I love Wallace though just like I consider everything John Bivins to have ever made something very special above and beyond what 99.99% of every other gun builder has ever made. The funny thing is the few percent that are close behind that mark have learned a lot from both of those guys.
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Thanks for sharing!! Anytime it's a Bivins, it's worth taking a look.....Mick C