AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Nordnecker on May 13, 2015, 02:30:56 PM
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I bought a .395 bag mold from Larry Calahan a few weeks ago. I've just been heating the lead in a ladle with a propane torch. I've gotten better at handling the ladle, I guess, and sometimes I can get just the right amount and not overrun the sprue hole. I try to get the round ball out as soon as possible to pour another. Sometimes I have to knock it on the bench 4 or 5 times to get the ball out, especially if I overrun the sprue hole and get a string of lead on the mold. But by the time I've poured 5 or 6 balls, the mold is too hot to handle.
I'm not inclined to dip it in water just because, ugh, I don't want it to start rusting, or create steam.?.? I have a hard enough time managing these items with my bare hands. I have kevlar gloves that I use to handle hot metal at the forge, but they're too bulky to wear using the ball mold.
Suggestions?
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Pouring lead over the sprue hole should not stop the ball from dropping out of the mold. Try smoking the mold with a candle before you cast again and keep a small plastic or wood Mallett close by. I have a few molds that sometimes stick and a sharp rap will break the ball lose.
Mark
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I have found that leather works well on the handles. I use a leather boot lace wrapped on each handle and find it works well. By the way, your mold need to be very warm to work properly. Hope this helps.
CW
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With a sticky mold, I have been known to use Valve lapping compound to polish the interior of the mold.
I pour a casting through a nut and let it freeze. I do this several times for each cavity. I then wipe those castings and lightly spin the casting in the mold. I do this untill I can easily close the mold.
That is all I do. Result is to just tap the casting out after cutting the sprue.
Might not be period, but it is a frustration cure for casting.
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, the mold is too hot to handle.
I'm not inclined to dip it in water just because, ugh, I don't want it to start rusting, or create steam.?.? I have a hard enough time managing these items with my bare hands.
I have a Callahan mold in .595. I wear heavy leather work gloves when casting. I don't need to cast more than a couple of dozen balls at a time, but have noticed that the mold really heats up after 5 or 6 to where it takes a while for the lead to solidify.
I'm using a lead pot and dipper. I fill the bag mold, set the mold down to cool and then cast a three or 4 balls of another caliber with one of my Lee or Lyman molds. Then dump the ball out of the bag mold, refill it, set it down to cool again, then pick up the other mold.
I never heard of anything good coming from mixing water and molten lead, so I'd be reluctant to try dipping the bag mold in water for fear of rust, a warped mold, steam, or flying lead.
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Don't dip the mold in water !! You will regret it . These are bag molds, not production molds, They heat up and require heavy gloves on the handles… just slow down. It's not a race. I like to have a generous sprue , which helps with the quality of the ball casting. If you slow down, the ball has time to shrink and releases from the mold easier. At least that is my finding.
I smoke my mold before use.
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Also, if the lead isn't pure, it won't shrink back as much as pure lead, and will encourage sticking. It also won't produce a ball the same finished size making them hard or impossible to load.
Hungry Horse
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I find that consistency is very important with casting. It seems almost impossible to get proper consistent heat with a propane torch
Too hot, then too cold would seem to be the norm. A lead pot would go a long ways to getting proper balls.
Also, until that mold is hot, it won't work right. Wear some gloves.
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I have a bunch of molds of all descriptions including a 14ga bag mold. You need a lead pot or furnace. You need some way to monitor the temperature. An immersion thermometer as sold by Lyman is good. The IR ones from Harbor Freight will do. Smoke the mold, propane or mapp gas will work by tapeing over the air inlets on a propane torch. I wrapped my steel mold handles with thick cotton string. Wear a glove. The mold must be very hot to cast well. Better yet get a modern mold.
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I second, or quadruple on the suggestions on a set of 19th century mould blocks - like Lyman, Saeco, Buffalo Arms or a set if modern blocks like Lee makes. Lee aluminum moulds are the least expensive - about $24.00 for DC.
I no longer smoke my mould cavities, but use a moly spray for bullets. MS Moly ( Lyman sells it with their name) there are others as well, designed for spraying moly onto jacketed bullets. It also works with cast bullets, but is NOT a BP lube.
The moly spray prevents sticking and also prevents rusting of iron or steel mould blocks.
Clean the mould with a good dish soap and toothbrush under really hot tap water, dry with paper or cloth towels(I use my wife's towel), then once dry, spray and let dry. Done. Heat the blocks on top of the furnace or beside the fire, then cast away. If water or spit instantly evapourates off the surface, you can behind casting, but not until. Even then, the first few balls might have to go back into the pot.
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Lots of guys routinely sharpen the ends of the handles on their bag molds so they can drive wooden sticks on them when casting in the field. You can do the same thing by drilling holes in the end of a couple of dowels. Voila!!! You have a wooden handled mold.
Also, you can melt your lead in a charcoal fire using a small sauce pan and dip it out with your ladle. Just like you can boil water in a paper cup, lead doesn't know or care what kind of container you're using.
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Just use corn cobs on the handles. You can take a knife and shape/ flatten the interior surfaces so they don't interfere with closing the mold.
I don't think a bag mold was ever intended to run more than a few balls, at a time and principally as a short term or emergency solution.
Trust the advice on hot steel, lead and water... it's like a 'go to emergency room' level of a bad idea. If you're not already wearing safety glasses while running balls... then it's like a serious 'avoid an emergency room' level of good idea.
Good luck!
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I bought a .395 bag mold from Larry Calahan a few weeks ago. I've just been heating the lead in a ladle with a propane torch. I've gotten better at handling the ladle, I guess, and sometimes I can get just the right amount and not overrun the sprue hole. I try to get the round ball out as soon as possible to pour another. Sometimes I have to knock it on the bench 4 or 5 times to get the ball out, especially if I overrun the sprue hole and get a string of lead on the mold. But by the time I've poured 5 or 6 balls, the mold is too hot to handle.
I'm not inclined to dip it in water just because, ugh, I don't want it to start rusting, or create steam.?.? I have a hard enough time managing these items with my bare hands. I have kevlar gloves that I use to handle hot metal at the forge, but they're too bulky to wear using the ball mold.
Suggestions?
I would just go ahead and by a Lee double mold, those bag molds are only made to make a few round balls at a time, like when out camping or at a Vous. If you want to make more than 5 or 6 at a time it's time for a Real mold, one where you can make a 100 or so comfortably.
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According to my fire brigade instructors, water expands 700 times by volume when it flashes to vapor. This is an explosive expansion. Even a drop of water could get ugly.
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OK. Thanks, Everyone.
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Casting ball is a true skill and one that improves with correct practice. Bag molds are designed to cast small batches of ball in "camp" settings. For feeding a gun that is fired a fair amount I highly recommend a Lee mold. I own more molds than I'll ever use and they are mostly iron, aluminum and brass. But 95% of my casting is with Lee molds. For this level of production one does absolutely need a sturdy, uniform source of heat.
When casting molds should be filled to overflowing. Lead shrinks and failing to leave a small reservoir on top of a mold is conducive to voids forming in the sprue area. Trying to cast too fast is asking for trouble. The liquid in the blocks needs time to harden and attempting to drop them too early can result in flaws (dents and voids) and sticking. I like my molds to be HOT. To control this heat-up I use a wet fold of cloth or paper towels. Just take the mold and press the top of the mold against the damp pad for a second or two; it helps the lead to solidify and the ball from sticking. If you want casting speed, do what I do and run two molds at a time.
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I had a learning curve on my .62 bag mold. With the larger size round ball and short sprue I was getting voids till I learned to hold the ladle over the sprue a few seconds and let the lead siphon in as the ball cooled and contracted. I made broom stick handles for my bag mold and cast hundreds of perfect balls at a time with it after I learned how. I use a gasoline camp stove and cast iron pot and ladle. I smoke my molds and keep a piece of broomstick handy to tap the mold if the ball doesn't release.
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I have a hardwood (hickory) hammer handle for tapping the hinge pin of moulds - been using it for this job only, since about 1977.
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I was able to try a few of my round balls yesterday. 1st stop was at a buddy's who wanted to shoot his newly scoped .222. He was blown away by the fun and accuracy of my long rifle. 2nd stop was at another friend's place on the way home. We shot twice but the Mayflies (Deerflies) were too thick.
When I got home, I wanted to seriously shoot for a group to test the consistency of my round balls. I couldn't even set up my shooting bench the flies were so bad. A paper target was up and I almost gave up because of the flies. I decided to load from inside my shop and ride the golfcart over to the 25 yard mark. I stayed under the relative protection of the roof of the cart, used a forked stick as a rest, and went back to the shop to load each time. Despite the Mayflies and the inconvenience of it all, I shot a 5 shot, one hole group. ;D
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Considering the Deer Flies and the necessity of running back and forth - you did OK.
Real Mayflies (an aquatic insect like Caddis flies)do not bite. Deer flies and horse flies on the other hand - are nasty biters for sure, much worse than mosquitoes.