AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Joe Schell on June 01, 2015, 04:31:48 AM
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i've been playin around with coconut oil & have been having really good luck with it so far. Has anyone else tried it , or know of any reason not to use it ?
Joe
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Smells nice, natural fat, was planning to try it myself.. Great for stir fry given the high smoke point. Interested in a learned opinion.
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Considering it is a solid at room temperature, it is not suitable as a patch lube here. I do not like loading stiff patches. It does turns liquid quite quickly when touched, though. I've never used it though it might be just fine, similar to mink oil from Track in consistency.
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Its great for making popcorn!
Robby
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Joe,
Have you noticed less fouling or better grouping?
~Tony
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Better groups. the foulings not bad either though.
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Are you using the same powder charge?
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Yes, everythings the same just changed lubes. this rifle has a 44" b wt colerain 45 cal barrel shooting a .445 ball , pillow ticking patch & 50 grains of schuetzen fff. i'm real happy with the accuracy of that combo with the coconut oil lube.
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Joe I tried it at your suggestion in a 40 that has been givin me fits and it sure seems like its goin to work out fine .Mine is the 76 degree melt oil and it has no odor at all,my wife uses it in her soap makin so I have an endless supply.I want to see how its goin to work in the cold thou.Curt
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Considering it is a solid at room temperature, it is not suitable as a patch lube here. I do not like loading stiff patches. It does turns liquid quite quickly when touched, though...
It goes runny right around 70f, so it's not much solid down here in Dixie 'cept in Wintertime when the 'lasses get slow.
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I tried the coconut oil today. The fouling stayed soft, and at the end of the day I wiped it out with a dry patch and never felt the patch drag. Since it liquefies at 76deg. according to the label, it is a little messy. I cleaned the barrel with Dawn soap and water. As a test I went behind that with the Mr. Flintlock and couldn't get anymore crud out. $4.49 for 16oz. at Walmart. I'm not sure it is any better than the mink oil, but you can eat it if you are lost in the woods. ;D
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I really don't give a darned when it liquifies, I live out where any farther West and you get wet, so its flash point is more important to me. It should be to a lot of you guys as well. Some of the best lube I ever used would set a fire about every third shot. Usually loose greases, and oils, have a low flash point. Venison, and mutton tallow are very good, and work very well when thinned with a little bear oil.
Hungry Horse
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If flash point is a concern, avocado oil makes a good oil for patches, as it's flash point is 520 degrees.
However with a felt wad and olive oil/bees wax mix over powder and patch with the same olive oil & bees wax lube, I have never had a burning patch problem.
I do look forward to trying the coconut oil, especially that it seems to improve groupings.
Now question: Is the new rage of coconut oil to fix every thing from patches, going to really work ? Kind of like snake oil !
Fred
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Joe I mix a little mineral oil in some Friday and shot the best groups I have shot in a long time .I picked up the patchs and found no burn spots or any kind of problems so far .At $4.99 for 16 oz it seems like a bargin to me. At this point I see no reason to try any other lube unless it gives me trouble in cold wheather. More tests comin for sure . Curt
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I am going to try the oil some more. Mainly because it gives me a chance to go out in the yard and shoot. This time I will use less of it to avoid the mess. The real reason for the oily patching is that I spilled some and wiped it up with my patching material. :) Kind of overdid it. This time I will be more careful with the application. I did like the way it cleaned up easily and left the fouling soft in the barrel. People have always looked for the lube that will only shoot tens and cleans up with one patch, but that is the fun of it. Sort of like people always looking for the best oil for their rc gas engines. They will buy a weedeater or chainsaw and run any old oil in it, but for their plane engine they look for the miracle oil that will eliminate all wear and never carbon up the head. They are basically the same engines.
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Thanks for the reports guys. ive done a little more shootin and am still happy with the results. so far ive not had any problems with burning or smoldering patches.
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I believe peanut oil has an even higher flash point. I may try it.
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New to form but have followed for some time. On the coconut oil, have used it for years and found it excellent. I shoot moistly large silhouette there four heavy charges for long range. You can over do it with this stuff! I lube only one side of the patch and that on the ball side, yes the ball side. I do use a very tight ball patch combination. Present rifle is .54 cal. 1 in 70 twists. Loads 65 gr. 2F and 110 2F with .535 ball wrapped in .025 Teflon. I have shot an entire match without cleaning. I must confess I now use 20/80 mix of Ballistol and water, almost as good and not as messy. Experimentation is one of the fun things in life find what works for you.
Yes it is good for popcorn also.
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If flash point is a concern, avocado oil makes a good oil for patches, as it's flash point is 520 degrees.
However with a felt wad and olive oil/bees wax mix over powder and patch with the same olive oil & bees wax lube, I have never had a burning patch problem.
I do look forward to trying the coconut oil, especially that it seems to improve groupings.
Now question: Is the new rage of coconut oil to fix every thing from patches, going to really work ? Kind of like snake oil !
Fred
My wife claims that swishing it around in your mouth for period of minutes whitens the teeth. Must be a Filipino thing.
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I'm going to try it as a maxi-ball lube tomorrow. Actually, mixed some in with some lube I already had made up of beeswax and olive oil. I needed to stretch out the supply for some shooting tomorrow. Seems like it should work. I added a little Murphy's soap and some coconut oil until it was a consistency I could easily fill the grooves of some maxi's for a little Cherokee in .32 cal. With it's fast twist, it should do alright with maxi- ball length bullets. I guess I'll find out!
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...
Now question: Is the new rage of coconut oil to fix every thing from patches, going to really work ? Kind of like snake oil !
Fred
My wife claims that swishing it around in your mouth for period of minutes whitens the teeth. Must be a Filipino thing.
Not a thing but for an industry to use rumor and "alternative ideas" for folks to latch onto and to want to believe so they can sell more product. None of the clinical trials researched by the doctors I trust showed any benefit to using coconut oil for anything at all.
If you like it for flavor, great. or shooting, great. But don't be a sheeple and believe it "pulls" anything or has other "special" health effects (no matter how you apply it). It's a plant oil, which makes it not much better or worse than any other plant oil for human nutritional/related needs. Fact is we don't need any refined oils according to some nutritional experts.
So lubing patches with it is surely healthier than eating it. :P
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I've used it after reading reports from others that it works well for them. I'm one of those who like to try different things from time to time, mostly for my own edification, not because I'm having problems.
It worked real well but as others have observed...it's "messy".
I didn't feel the need to continue the experiment and work out the best procedure but while I was using it there were no problems at all.
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I could understand the endless hunt for a good patch lube, if what our forefathers used didn’t work, or did’nt work well, but it does. So, I must assume this search must have to do more with the cool factor of coconut oil, mink oil, and who knows what else. I know mutton tallow, bear grease, and venison tallow, is’nt nearly exotic enough for some of you, but, it works very well, just as it has for centuries.
Hungry Horse
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I don't have any dead sheep, mink, bear or dear.
I use lube based on dead moose I guess. Moose milk.
I don't live in the 18th century, so I have to use what I have for his one.
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OK, I'm going to be the heretic here. ;D
Over my 50 years of muzzleloading I've tried about every patch lube out there - spit, olive oil, peanut oil, mink oil, jojoba oil, Crisco/beeswax mix, etc.
For the last five years I've used nothing but Liquid Wrench Penetrating Oil for the patch lube in all of my guns, from .32 to .58 caliber. (OH, the horror! A petroleum product!) My powder of choice is GOEX.
I use precut patches, usually pillow ticking. I put a dozen or two patches in a stack - squirt the stack with enough LW to wet the patches pretty well - massage the stack with my fingers to distribute the oil evenly - wrap the stack in a paper towel and squeeze it so the towel absorbs the excess oil.
The patches will feel almost dry and are pleasant to handle. I get excellent accuracy. No ugly fouling build up. Clean-up is just as easy as any other lube I've used. And as a bonus, no rust worries if I don't get around to cleaning the gun until the next day.
Don't hate me because I'm Semisane. ;) Try it, you might like it.
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I think someone should try bacon fryings for a lube. It may not increase your accuracy, make your gun easier to clean, or soften the fowling but it would drive everyone nuts on the shooting line trying to figure who had the bacon sandwich hid in their shooting box, LOL
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Now question: Is the new rage of coconut oil to fix every thing from patches, going to really work ? Kind of like snake oil !
Fred
Snake oil!!! That'd be fun to experiment with, just to be able to say I use Snake Oil. But I don't know off the top of my head where to obtain some. Maybe from a snake oil salesman?
Boy howdy, that would be interesting.
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I think someone should try bacon fryings for a lube. It may not increase your accuracy, make your gun easier to clean, or soften the fowling but it would drive everyone nuts on the shooting line trying to figure who had the bacon sandwich hid in their shooting box, LOL
I have used bacon grease many times. Good for fall through spring shooting, but a bit messy during the summer months. I used to keep it in an aluminum 35mm film can.
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I have all my guns on a low salt diet. :)
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OK, I'm going to be the heretic here. ;D
Over my 50 years of muzzleloading I've tried about every patch lube out there - spit, olive oil, peanut oil, mink oil, jojoba oil, Crisco/beeswax mix, etc.
For the last five years I've used nothing but Liquid Wrench Penetrating Oil for the patch lube in all of my guns, from .32 to .58 caliber. (OH, the horror! A petroleum product!) My powder of choice is GOEX.
I use precut patches, usually pillow ticking. I put a dozen or two patches in a stack - squirt the stack with enough LW to wet the patches pretty well - massage the stack with my fingers to distribute the oil evenly - wrap the stack in a paper towel and squeeze it so the towel absorbs the excess oil.
The patches will feel almost dry and are pleasant to handle. I get excellent accuracy. No ugly fouling build up. Clean-up is just as easy as any other lube I've used. And as a bonus, no rust worries if I don't get around to cleaning the gun until the next day.
Don't hate me because I'm Semisane. ;) Try it, you might like it.
In all your guns, from .32 to .58, you can shoot all day without wiping when using LW, with 0 fouling buildup?
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No. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply no fouling build up. The fouling with LW is no worse than the fouling with "natural" lubes such as olive oil, mink oil or moose milk (as opposed to the belief that any petroleum product will produce horrible and unusual fouling).
This "almost dry" patch method with LW a real winner for me. Test it yourself with five or ten shots. You can't lose anylthing by doing so, and I suspect you will really like it.
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OK, I'm going to be the heretic here. ;D
Over my 50 years of muzzleloading I've tried about every patch lube out there - spit, olive oil, peanut oil, mink oil, jojoba oil, Crisco/beeswax mix, etc.
For the last five years I've used nothing but Liquid Wrench Penetrating Oil for the patch lube in all of my guns, from .32 to .58 caliber. (OH, the horror! A petroleum product!) My powder of choice is GOEX.
I use precut patches, usually pillow ticking. I put a dozen or two patches in a stack - squirt the stack with enough LW to wet the patches pretty well - massage the stack with my fingers to distribute the oil evenly - wrap the stack in a paper towel and squeeze it so the towel absorbs the excess oil.
The patches will feel almost dry and are pleasant to handle. I get excellent accuracy. No ugly fouling build up. Clean-up is just as easy as any other lube I've used. And as a bonus, no rust worries if I don't get around to cleaning the gun until the next day.
Don't hate me because I'm Semisane. ;) Try it, you might like it.
The only problem with that stuff is that it's "penetrating" your skin for sure. :o
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No. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply no fouling build up. The fouling with LW is no worse than the fouling with "natural" lubes such as olive oil, mink oil or moose milk (as opposed to the belief that any petroleum product will produce horrible and unusual fouling).
This "almost dry" patch method with LW a real winner for me. Test it yourself with five or ten shots. You can't lose anylthing by doing so, and I suspect you will really like it.
You didn't answer my question, Semisane.
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You didn't answer my question, Semisane.
In all your guns, from .32 to .58, you can shoot all day without wiping when using LW, with 0 fouling buildup?
Sorry . I wasn't trying to duck your question. I thought my statement that "the fouling with LW is no worse than the fouling with natural lubes such as olive oil, mink oil or moose milk" covered it. Perhaps I should have said "no worse and no better" than the fouling with other lubes.
No. I can not shoot all day without wiping. My guns normally require a swab after 3/4/5 shots depending on the gun and powder charge, though it is my habit to wipe after each shot anyway. I'm an accuracy nut and do a lot of paper shooting from the bench. All of my patch & ball loads are tight enough to require a palm whack on the short starter.
I've found most guns require an occasional wipe regardless of the lube used. I suppose one might shoot all day with a looser ball/patch combination than what I use. (Depending on how many shots constitute "shooting all day". ;D)
Do you have a gun/load you can shoot all day with 0 fouling buildup? If so, I'd be interested in the particulars.
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I have several guns that I can and do shoot all day with out wiping unless I sit out of a couple of relays then I need to run a patch down. For me it depends on the lube and ball/patch combo. A tighter fit will shoot cleaner in my guns than one with too much windage.
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My gun club has an annual event called the family fun shoot ( I know there is one advertised in Muzzleblasts, but ours is ten years older than theirs). The event is open to the public, and is totally free, including lunch. Last year at the muzzleloading station my old poor boy shot seventy four consecutive shots without swabbing once, using venison tallow with a little bear grease saturated patches. The day was hot,and dry, as August always is here, and we never even saw a smoking patch. In fact many of these patches could have been reused.
Hungry Horse
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Smylee and HH- I am in total agreement - it is a fairly tight combination with wet patches that allows shooting all day without having to wipe.
I find the fouling left by the last shot does dry out on a hot/dry day as at Hefley Creek Rendezvous oft times, but when loading the next one, it is only a bit crunchy & when that happens,
I touch off that shot on something other than the next target, so I can load afresh for the next scoring target. Usually the next target is larger and the change in bore condition does not
injure accuracy enough to matter. If shooting paper, I keep a cadence, shot to shot that keeps a consistent bore condition.
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At the event mentioned accuracy is not much of an issue. The majority of the participants have never shot a muzzleloader before. The targets are big clangers at no more than a hundred yards, and the favorite is the top 1/3 of an old oxygen cylinder that rings like a church bell, that is at fifty yards.
The point of this whole thing is, if you’re swabbing ever few shots because loading is getting hard, your doing something wrong. And, if you keep getting a build up of crud, at the breech, you have the wrong patch lube. I make a point of not using anything for patch lube that I don’t know what is in it. Or, for that matter how it will react to extreme heat and pressure.
Hungry Horse
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If you are out on a trek...or lost... I suppose it would be good to have a lube in which you could fry up a critter. But of course to do that you would need a pan. In what type of period correct flask should we tote our coconut oil?
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Probably the one you once carried your sperm whale oil in.
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I've raided the kitchen and come away with an unopened container of coconut oil. If I can brave the sweltering heat, I'll shoot with it today.
I'm anxious to see not only if it's accurate, which trumps all to me, but also will be anxious to see how easily it cleans up for me.
The particular flinter I've been shooting lately is very accurate with my moose milk concoction, but is kind of a bear to clean after shooting with this patch lube.
Will report back if I make any smoke, Skychief
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Chores prevented any shooting today.
I did try a little experiment though.
As a hunter, I'm concerned with what a possible lube will do below freezing.
I placed dollops of the coconut oil, mutton tallow, and Crisco in my freezer.
The coconut oil came out hard as a rock.
The mutton tallow was nearly as hard as the coconut oil.
The Crisco didn't freeze nearly as hard as the others. In fact it had a consistency that seemed to me would work as a patch lube should even below freezing.
I know one can add olive oil or such to any of the above to thin it for colder weather, or harden them with bees wax or such for high temps. I'm looking for a straight grease that will work without adding anything, no matter the season.
I've fooled around with vegetable shortening (Crisco) some previously. It shot accurately, kept fouling soft and cleaned up easy. Now that it's passed this sub freezing test, I'm going to look at trying it out more on the future.
Just reporting in.
Best regards, Skychief
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When I started shooting blackpowder in the mid-70's Crisco was the recommended lube. That and spit. I used it for over 10 years along with many others at events I attended. Flashpoint may be a problem in Death Valley but I don't live there and it has never been a problem here. So as far as I'm concerned that's a non issue.
Crisco makes a good hunting load.
Crisco can be a very accurate lube. I placed at the SE Regionals in the 50 yard offhand using Crisco and Pillow ticking. My process was to shoot 3 consecutive shots while chewing a cleaning patch, then clean with that patch and shoot the next 2 shots. It was just as accurate as anything else I've used. It wasn't much for cleaning though.
Now, years later, after trying many other lubes I'm back to the vegetable oils. I did some shooting with Canola oil earlier in the year with promising results. But a lot more shooting must be done before I decide if I like it or not. Canola oil is a wetter lube than Crisco and a little too much is really too much. But I learned how to prelube strips and get them just right. I suppose it's like coconut oil in that respect.
Even when one has found the perfect lube for them I still think it's a good idea to continue testing different lubes and patches, you always have your perfect lube just waiting for you and you just might find something better.
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I don't know if it will freeze at low temps, but there is a non-hardening coconut oil available. I use it to soften Track's mink oil.
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How do you get sperm whale oil? Naaah, you couldn't be thinking like me!