AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Joe S. on September 30, 2015, 10:33:28 PM
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Noticed some of the newer folks here that don't have lots to spend on tools like drill presss ect might be interested.I am doing my build with minimal tools myself.Hand tools,cordless drill and a portable vice,pretty spartan by seeing some of the digs others have here.Hope to have a decent shop of my own some day but will make due till then.Anyway I bought a "gunsmith" drill jig and while I seriously doubt a good gunsmith would have one of these in their shop I figured I would give one a try.I was going to do it by eye to drill these lock and tang bolts holes but lost my nerve knowing you have one shot to get it right so I picked one up.The thing works well and did what it was supposed to do.I wouldn't use it to drill your holes for your ram rod pipes/thimbles unless your dealing with a lot of wood that will need to be removed later because it will leave a nice dimple in the wood if you crank down on that Allen screw.I did all my holes just hand tighting the screw and it did the job.Throw gunsmith drill jig into the Google search and it will pop up at one of the muzzleloader's supply places,for forty bucks what the heck
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Pictures???
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It's basically the same thing as the one that is sold here.....I think David Rase made them.
http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/shop/item.asp?item=04019
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(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi639.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu118%2Fkeithbatt%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FD2EAC758-22F6-43CA-9CEE-C995467BBA77.jpg&hash=4f3fa3ff59bd04d31ddbd9193b2f3e322d302d79) (http://s639.photobucket.com/user/keithbatt/media/Mobile%20Uploads/D2EAC758-22F6-43CA-9CEE-C995467BBA77.jpg.html)
Sounds like this. Looks easier to me than setting up a drill press especially in an awkward shaped workpiece like a buttstock. But I don't have a lot of experience to go on.
Keith
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That is not my drill fixture. Below is a picture of mine ready to drill a barrel pin. I get $50.00 for mine which includes priority mail shipping, detailed instructions and bits and bushings for lock and tang screws as well as barrel pins.
David
PS: I have 6 of them sitting on a shelf ready to ship.
(https://i.ibb.co/pZcSNmR/DSCF4317.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WFZL7TP)
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It's the one Keith has a picture of on his post.Sorry David I would have bought one of yours,I did not know if yours was the other one or not.These jigs do the job,I did drill small pilot holes after center punching where my screws where going to go.The directions didn't say anything about pilot holes but I did not think the punch was that deep and did not want it to drill off center on the bushing side.
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Tom Snyder makes one as well as some nice planes, and a touch hole coning tool(for inside the barrel).
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Tom Snyder makes one as well as some nice planes, and a touch hole coning tool(for inside the barrel).
I need to take a look at the internal touch hole coning tool. Does anyone know how to contact Tom Snyder or get info on the coning tool?
Gregg
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It's the one Keith has a picture of on his post.Sorry David I would have bought one of yours,I did not know if yours was the other one or not.These jigs do the job,I did drill small pilot holes after center punching where my screws where going to go.The directions didn't say anything about pilot holes but I did not think the punch was that deep and did not want it to drill off center on the bushing side.
No need to be sorry Joe. Since there is usually a run on an item once it is posted on this forum I just wanted to let people know I was still making these fixtures.
David
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Tom Snyder 906-482-8422 or tpsnyder@mtu.edu
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The real Joe S uses only the real drill jig from Dave Rase. He would never use a cheap imitation jig.
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I made something like that. I botched the first hole........
The problem seems to not be aiming the bit but getting it to track straight. With a hand held drill the bit will flex and be much more likely to head off into parts unknown. I have the luxury of a milling machine, it works really well.
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I made something like that. I botched the first hole........
The problem seems to not be aiming the bit but getting it to track straight. With a hand held drill the bit will flex and be much more likely to head off into parts unknown. I have the luxury of a milling machine, it works really well.
That is why you see the longer drill bushings on my fixture. Using a long guide bushing with a jam nut and a 6" aircraft length drill much straighter holes are accomplished. Years ago someone out of California had a fixture made out of a clamp with short bushings. The tolerance's were terrible and so was the accuracy. That was what inspired me to create my own.
David
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I'm just waiting for dave to make a slot jig, with a flat drill bit ;D ::).....I have your older model jig, and she works just great!!!
I just remember NOT to be in a hurry with a 1/16" bit....give her the time, no pressure, and it'll do great!!!
marc n tomtom
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Pretty cool stuff! Unbelievably, I have managed to somehow make guns for 35 years with out these nifty sort of things. ;)
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I have the first one pictured. (not the Rase model). If I did not like the buyer I'd sell it for 5 bucks. If I did like the buyer I'd tell them to buy something else or to build something.
There is so much 'wobble' in the 'cheap' one that the centers have no chance of aligning. Eye balls and care would do a better job.
Dave seems to have added the three things required to make the concept work: A lock nut to remove the need for thread fit to align things, A proper length bushing, room between the perpendiculars to see what the heck your doing.
In the end I bought a used 8 inch drill press for less then I paid for my jig.......
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For underlugs and ramrod pipes on a rounded surface I measure carefully, punch a small dimple in the wood and come at it from both sides with a 1/16th" finger drill. Once I get the wood drilled I use a power drill to get through the metal. does not take all that long and you have complete control with the finger drills. For doing a squared up blank I will use the drill press.
dp
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I have the first one pictured. (not the Rase model). If I did not like the buyer I'd sell it for 5 bucks. If I did like the buyer I'd tell them to buy something else or to build something.
There is so much 'wobble' in the 'cheap' one that the centers have no chance of aligning. Eye balls and care would do a better job.
Dave seems to have added the three things required to make the concept work: A lock nut to remove the need for thread fit to align things, A proper length bushing, room between the perpendiculars to see what the heck your doing.
In the end I bought a used 8 inch drill press for less then I paid for my jig.......
The one I have I dont have the wobble but you are correct about seeing what your doing,Dave's is better having way more room between the points to see what's your doing.All in all though it worked for me but I will do the thimbles and under lugs/keys like PPatch,my stock is pretty close to shaped and the cheap one will make a dimple bigger than the pins you will probably be using.
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Not trying to get off subject but what are finger drills?
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I've used Tom Snyder's tool for several years now using the method ppatch mentioned above. I love it and it gets away from the clumsy drill press method. NOrmally I use 1/16" pins but I asked Tom to make me bushings for 3/32" pins and tap size for 8-32 screws. I like it. One of these days I'll try Dave Rase's.
Curt
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I got one of Dave Rase's fixtures a couple of years ago. Why in h*ll did I wait so long?? His fixture made the drilling of barrel pin holes, ramrod pin holes and lock bolt holes a simple easy routine job rather than an exercise in frustration. Worth twice what he charges!
Best Regards,
John Cholin
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Not trying to get off subject but what are finger drills?
My understanding is that a finger drill is a drill bit with a small handle that you twist with thumb and index finger, while the first finger applies pressure.
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I know that this is a late response to this topic but where can I get finger drills?
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"Finger Drills" are pin vises. Available many places. Last ones I got were about 20 years ago from Brownell's. But if you put "pin vise" in a google search, you will find some. Generally there are two collets, one in the barrel ready to use, the other, just unscrew the top and it is there. That will give you four collets for different sized bits or pins.
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Tower Hobbies also sells them for model airplanes.