AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: debnal on November 15, 2015, 05:59:50 AM
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I just got an American made Bess type musket. On the left side where the wrist meets the comb it is stamped "E L R No 3". Does anyone have clue as to what this may signify?
Regards,
Al
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Here is a picture of the marking.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae186%2Fdebnal%2FDSCF2195_zpsrciygtzo.jpg&hash=d3c74a22ce6c60a811ccdd4e861c0ce6eb5cd7b6) (http://s970.photobucket.com/user/debnal/media/DSCF2195_zpsrciygtzo.jpg.html)
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No idea but would love to see the rest of it!
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I'd be happy to email pictures of the gun via PM to anyone.
Al
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I'd like the pics. Thank you very much.
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Keb,
Please send me a PM.
Al
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Numbers on military arms tend to be rack numbers associated with the unit and not related to the manufacturer. This looks pretty crude, like it was done by the soldier himself (if the markings are original). Maybe his initials and a rack number?
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Hi,
Ebenezar Learned formed a regiment that was called "Ebenezar Learned's Regiment" early in the AWI. It eventually became the 3rd Continental Regiment in 1776. Just a guess.
dave
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Now know why they call you Smartdog instead of Rover. I think you hit the nail on the head. Unless I'm wrong those letters and numbers look like they were carved in, not stamped.
Hungry Horse
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That kind of stuff is so cool! Crude? I don't think so. The graffiti I carve into guns is more crude.... :P
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The letters are carved into the stock. They appear to be old and contemporary with the gun. I was told there war also a group called the Ethiopian Loyalist Regiment composed of freed slaves in Norfolk, Va. The regiment was raised by the Va. governor to fight with the British.
Al
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That is very interesting Al! I wonder though if they fought for the Brits if they would not have been armed by them? You mention it is an American-made musket.
dave
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Dave,
I thought the same but there is very little information on that regiment. I may be able to add more pictures later so you may see hwy I call it American made- but, as always, I could be wrong.
Al.
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Here are some additional pictures of the musket.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae186%2Fdebnal%2FDSCF2184_zpsadu6pcb4.jpg&hash=d5faa7b0f24bdb36dad95c2d0c9b9619823472c9) (http://s970.photobucket.com/user/debnal/media/DSCF2184_zpsadu6pcb4.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae186%2Fdebnal%2FDSCF2186_zpsfvehlbpi.jpg&hash=e85e4dcaa7d795c3ffbca95702af139fbd1140cb) (http://s970.photobucket.com/user/debnal/media/DSCF2186_zpsfvehlbpi.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae186%2Fdebnal%2FDSCF2187_zpstjcizxk5.jpg&hash=fc3e1ed995c258009e52de710a6723cbe3b1d711) (http://s970.photobucket.com/user/debnal/media/DSCF2187_zpstjcizxk5.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae186%2Fdebnal%2FDSCF2188_zpsttwttuyb.jpg&hash=2aac27b81222df8b2b6db0a57b277a137caf69fd) (http://s970.photobucket.com/user/debnal/media/DSCF2188_zpsttwttuyb.jpg.html)
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Some more pictures. It seems to me to be a copy of a 1742 pattern musket.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae186%2Fdebnal%2FDSCF2193_zpsl5msuhp7.jpg&hash=becce62b532e2ddad53559371952c251c4b7b856) (http://s970.photobucket.com/user/debnal/media/DSCF2193_zpsl5msuhp7.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae186%2Fdebnal%2FDSCF2192_zps7mqktpok.jpg&hash=5b4b6dbfea642471626bd62125873a8777f6015e) (http://s970.photobucket.com/user/debnal/media/DSCF2192_zps7mqktpok.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae186%2Fdebnal%2FDSCF2190_zpsqnbeszi9.jpg&hash=282058b7c45affe4f3b7c83ccb8a1744ee13dec0) (http://s970.photobucket.com/user/debnal/media/DSCF2190_zpsqnbeszi9.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae186%2Fdebnal%2FDSCF2196_zpsx7sd2io9.jpg&hash=231e74aca20a47b1046e9a133a8f055637f5936a) (http://s970.photobucket.com/user/debnal/media/DSCF2196_zpsx7sd2io9.jpg.html)
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The barrel is 46 inches long with a .80 caliber bore. Lock is 7 inches. It was built for sling swivels- not present. What makes me think American- non English marked barrel and lock, different shape to sideplate, triggerguard, butt plate tang, and thumbpiece. Well built,sturdy,heavy musket.
Al
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Very neat gun! I wouldn't call it English. The details on the triggerguard have a Dutch feel, and the lock is Dutch to my eye. As with so many potential American muskets of that period it's probably a mix of different European parts built along the same lines as a Bess. Can't help you on the initials though. Thanks for sharing,
-Eric
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Beautiful musket. Thanks for sharing. It seems entirely plausible that a soldier would carve both E.L.R. and No. 3, perhaps done as a sign of pride in the unit.
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Very neat gun! I wouldn't call it English. The details on the triggerguard have a Dutch feel, and the lock is Dutch to my eye. As with so many potential American muskets of that period it's probably a mix of different European parts built along the same lines as a Bess. Can't help you on the initials though. Thanks for sharing,
-Eric
Could be a Dutch contract gun. The English did that from time to time when they were hard pressed for arms.
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Hi Al,
The wood looks like walnut to me but not American black walnut. I certainly cannot tell for sure but my first impression is that it is English or European walnut. The lock does look Dutch. Regardless, it certainly could have seen service in the AWI by America troops.
dave
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Mike, Smart Dog,
I had considered that it might be a Dutch contract 1742 pattern made for the British. I want it to be American because that is what I collect. The irony is that it would be worth much less if it were American than if it were a contract model made for the English. The American muskets from the Rev War just don't get the love that the British guns do. I think someday that may change. I have always found Brown besses to be more expensive than comparable American made muskets of the same time period.
Al
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I don't believe it was made in colonial America.