AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Contemporary Longrifle Collecting => Topic started by: bones92 on December 18, 2015, 10:23:50 PM
-
I stumbled onto a Bob Tingle Hawken in .45 yesterday. Ironically, I had never heard of him before recently, as there was a similar Hawken sold on Gunbroker recently.
This one has a 6xx serial, so I'm guessing it is very early 1960's production. Mr. Tingle sure knew what he was doing. I like how he serial numbered the bolster, the rib under the barrel, the forearm and even the lock.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDWo3E2S.jpg&hash=1a413b7c0e39bc35bf8f3ae35b0f04f92368312a)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FSsTY6tq.jpg&hash=df4692e96275f75753470e1fbc70bad85d1f28df)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FntjF0q0.jpg&hash=4a77988cdf27e54d4938ad9108b1ae39aa0db9a2)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FM8cktN7.jpg&hash=19d717eec7ecf320635ea99f8bd7ffc1f6590d41)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzU7y8pd.jpg&hash=00b5dc98e1fd710aeeafd05a33e17ef734351f42)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYLZNk1a.jpg&hash=6c71c5047e11c55bb188f2349015052628f94775)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyVqPYjV.jpg&hash=aa764438a4656ac46acfb0eaf9727ba82f59ed8e)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPLxsEaB.jpg&hash=09d77fd8842b5639413bc0f6fd8f3f2e50ea0e01)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1nLDstl.jpg&hash=84a33a31d704c3e230695d73ea75e06b2f0aa9db)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbG4Tsro.jpg&hash=a3579793c5e60dc9f3c04a6201ef79aa35f22249)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJmz8Q9E.jpg&hash=65ff8e594471e37be1630e26fc4c59452a257f6d)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIIsQMxk.jpg&hash=e9bf8c6e74df2b60f38ad9ddcfc7c566c5f45c5a)
-
I associate him with competition ML pistols with a stock that sort of fits like a glove. 600 and some odd guns is alot of guns....
-
I've seen others of this model (in photos ) with serials in the 1700s.
-
I haven't seen one of these in many years. While it isn't a Hawken (and wasn't represented as such) they were solid and accurate rifles. He made a target pistol, too.
Dan
-
This brings up a good point, one which I've been wondering about lately.
What defines a true Hawken?
-
I had one years ago until it was stolen. Mr Tingle sold the rufles out of a booth at Friendship at one time. They had a coil spring lock and mine shot very well. I think the rear sught is a replacement you could by from the Log Cabin. Had one like it on mine.
-
I remember Bob Tingle and he had a booth at Friendship. These guns were solid,
basic muzzle loaders that predated the T?C by a number of years.He got a strongly worded
letter from Smith&Wesson when he called one of his guns a "Magnum". It seems that S&W
had a copyright on that word at that time.As I recall,he passed away from a heart attack and
was not an old man.
Bob Roller
-
Having done as much research as I could, it seems that he went out to check the mail one very cold morning. He sat down by the road, and either died of a heart attack or some other reason, sitting there beside the road. Evidently, some locals passed by and honked their greeting at him, unaware that he was no longer alive.
-
You know bones, I've wondered that very same thing myself. I've come to the conclusion that it is much like the Gospels according to Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, it's kinda sorta an interpretive thing, depending on just who you talk to, and what kind of mood they might be in on any given day,but in the end, Jacob and Samuel must speak for themselves, thru their work that resides in museums.
In discussions that I have read hear, it very much reminds me of told Mainer. With Mt. Katahdin looming in the background an outsider approached this life long resident and asked, is that Mt. Katahdin, how would I get there? The old Mainer looked him in the eye and responded, ayea, at's the Mt. alright, but yah can't get theyah from heeyah.
Robin
-
Hawken rifles have nuances of architecture, even in their diversity, that sets them apart from other plains and mountain rifles. Even when one of those may be absent from a particular rifle, others make identification plain. Saying that though, there were contemporary gunmakers, even St. Louis, that used some of these idiosyncrasies. To appreciate what these are, one must study as many examples as are available to them, either first hand, in museums, or in reference books. Perhaps it may be necessary to attempt to replicate an existing Hawken rifle to appreciate the little things that set them apart. I expect that this reply will be too vague to answer the question...but hopefully, it'll at least make the statement that there are indeed significant features that truly set them apart.
-
Once you know what to look for, a true Hawken is very distinctive. Samuel Hawken's rifles have a simple elegance about them that's hard to miss. IMHO.
Dan
-
"Bones", go to page 3 of this Forum (Contemporary Longrifle Collecting), and scroll down to about the 10th thread,
"Hawken Rifle from Art Ressel's Hawken Shop in St. Louis",
you will see some very fine contemporary hand-made versions of the Hawken Rifle. Of course, nothing beats the real thing, but the photos in the thread offer some of the details that should appear on a modern representation of the Hawken Rifle.
Folks like CVA, T/C, Traditions, Lyman and other factory/mass production makers use the name "Hawken" to impress the uneducated beginner and to conjure up an image to impress the new buyer, until the shooter becomes more enlightened by education and research.
If you happen by my table at the Dixie Gun & Knife Classic Gun Show in Raleigh in January, I can let you put your hands on three rifles made by Bergmann, Corley, & Fellows, looking like those in the photos.
-
Tingles turret breech black powder 22 cal. Rifles shot like a champ. I haven't seen one in years. They were a great kids gun.
Hungry Horse
-
Buck, I saw you at the last show but you had a gaggle of people around. I'll stop by if I can make the January show.
-
Bones - you may know this, but I don't think Tingle ever called his rifles Hawkens, rather "Tingle M1962 Muzzleloading Rifle", I have one in .45 in the 1300 serial range, looks similar to yours but mine has the stock rear sight, your rifle looks to be in a little better shape than mine. The rifle fits me well, the sights line right up when I shoulder the rifle but setting the trigger before cocking the hammer is going to be hard for my thick head to absorb.
I don't like that the drum isn't supported by the lock on mine, but I guess it doesn't matter as the drum is still tight. I haven't shot mine (lack of time) but the previous owner told me it was very accurate with a .445 ball, .015 patching, and shot well with any powder charge between 50-70grs of GOEX FFFg.
-
Will5a1, yes, the trigger function is odd, but I'm so new to this, it doesn't bother me. I think Tingle engineered the drum to be fairly stout. Mine has been shot, but seems to have been well cared-for.
-
This brings up a good point, one which I've been wondering about lately.
What defines a true Hawken
I just can't wrap my arms around that rifle. But if you like it Bones that's good enough for me. But, buying one well built rifle is better than buying a bunch of sub par rifles. Here are some excellent examples of the Hawken.
http://www.donstith.com/j_s_half_stock.html
-
More and more, I'm seeing why one really nice BP rifle is preferable to several mediocre examples. I do think it is fun to have a bit of variety, though.
-
I agree Bones.
-
I started shooting BP in the 70's with a Tingle and I am lucky to still have it. It has brought home a lot of hardware. Hope you can get her out to the range and enjoy it.
-
You mean to say you have won competitions with it?
I started shooting BP in the 70's with a Tingle and I am lucky to still have it. It has brought home a lot of hardware. Hope you can get her out to the range and enjoy it.