AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: jerrywh on January 15, 2016, 09:34:02 AM
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Many times I hear that a recessed breech plug would be hard to clean or one that is notched out.
The two examples below are old time well established designs that were used thousands of times both in this country and Europe.
It is explained in the Manton book that the speed of the water going through these types of breeches cleaned them very well when you pump the cleaning rod. I think most of us know what is meant by pumping the barrel in water. There thousands of these in use now.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjwh-flintlocks.net%2Fpatent-breech-percussion.jpg&hash=001b90a0baa069dbb84e8c010cfd05a2e7b6ad38)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjwh-flintlocks.net%2Fpatent-breech1.jpg&hash=4179de129452f05cf9762cf0d094126542edceda)
If you have a 3/8" ram rod and exert 15 lbs. of pressure when washing the barrel out with water there is about 135 Psi. Of water pressure in the barrel. This is what cleans these beeches. It is the speed of the water and the pressure of the water. It is like a pressure washer.
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I have been making Nock breeches (your example shown on the right) for 40-some years and have found there is not much cleaning that has to be done inside the breech. Apparently the higher pressure in the breech during ignition makes them sorta self-cleaning. I certainly don't get the build-up of yuck at the face of the plug as with a regular flint breech. I have not made as many Manton breeches, but the ones I have made also exhibit self-cleaning.
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I just finished installing a similar breech on my flint chunk guns .50 cal. barrel. The old .40 has the same flint breech and has been essentially zero trouble for 3 years. They get flushed with water, not brushed, and when I have removed the 40's plug in the past to inspect, it looks clean as when installed. I drilled the liner with #3 (?-1/4-28 tap bit) into the chamber and rounded off the top of the chamber with a countersink and some file work.
*Essentially zero trouble means nothing beyond the touch hole (<1/16") fouling once or twice when not picked in bad weather. I think this type of breech works perhaps better than a flat breech for flint.
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I hear what you're saying ; but I still don't like them ;D
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I hear what you're saying ; but I still don't like them ;D
I can see that. They are a tedious pain to fit so that the plug is tight at the bore and there is no gap between barrel and breech!
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Does anybody remember Guilterslieve. He always said" don't tell me that my head is made up.
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the only thing i would add is that the Nock and Manton breech designs should not be confused with designs such as those used by modern manufactures . Those designs often do plug up and then require some work to clean out
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I have a feeling that a lot of guys just wipe their rifle's bores with tow and call it done. That is a pathetic way to clean a muzzle loader, IMMHO. I flush as Jerry describes, in a bucket with considerable force to create a jet under pressure.
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I have seen a number of them used at different times at shoots. I've tried one, and it was a pain to keep going for 30-40 shots in our humid summers. I'm more than happy with my standard type breech. I polish the face of the plug . Sorry, but after over 35 years of shooting mainly flintlocks, and hunting exclusively with them for the last 20 years, my mind is made up :) I don't like them . Of course, I am happy for others to use them ;D
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I clean my rifles in a pathetic manner. Breech scraper, patches, tow. I don't like taking my barrel out of the stock.
If I made the gun with keys and a hook breech, I'd take the barrel out for cleaning. :(
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I clean my rifles in a pathetic manner. Breech scraper, patches, tow. I don't like taking my barrel out of the stock.
If I made the gun with keys and a hook breech, I'd take the barrel out for cleaning. :(
Ditto
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You could use one of the clamp-on flintlock flusher deals. I bought one from Don Eads many years ago and it works great. Can't beat water for cleaning a bp firearm.
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Many times I hear that a recessed breech plug would be hard to clean or one that is notched out.
The two examples below are old time well established designs that were used thousands of times both in this country and Europe.
It is explained in the Manton book that the speed of the water going through these types of breeches cleaned them very well when you pump the cleaning rod. I think most of us know what is meant by pumping the barrel in water. There thousands of these in use now.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjwh-flintlocks.net%2Fpatent-breech-percussion.jpg&hash=001b90a0baa069dbb84e8c010cfd05a2e7b6ad38)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjwh-flintlocks.net%2Fpatent-breech1.jpg&hash=4179de129452f05cf9762cf0d094126542edceda)
If you have a 3/8" ram rod and exert 15 lbs. of pressure when washing the barrel out with water there is about 135 Psi. Of water pressure in the barrel. This is what cleans these beeches. It is the speed of the water and the pressure of the water. It is like a pressure washer.
Therein lies the rub - Jerry - seems most on this site do not remove the barrel for cleaning, thus these breeches may give trouble.
For those of us who remove barrels for cleaning, dunking the breeches in water and pump/flushing them with water, these breeches would be no problem.
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You remove your breeches to wash them? ;) Is this a Western, or Canadian phenomenon?
More seriously, is it a Hawken/English thing to have keys and remove the barrel for cleaning? The convenience of having a gun designed to remove the barrel for cleaning would certainly make the task so much easier.
As I said, I don't like to take my gun barrel out for cleaning; I think I would enlarge my pin holes in the stock, not to mention losing the pins.
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Bob in the woods.
Fact is we are sort of in agreement. I don't think the pattent type breeches would be as good for a gun that is fired a lot like a shooting match. Because They do need cleaning often and they are on guns that almost always have keys. On a dueler it wouldn't matter.
they are simple to clean with the barrel out. I personally wouldn't want one on a long rifle but I do like the plug cupped out and notched for the liner.
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You remove your breeches to wash them? Wink Is this a Western, or Canadian phenomenon?
Some do,(uppity eastern immigrants mostly) but like our American brethren many of us just wear them (our breeches) into our weekly bath/shower and then let them dry sitting in front of the fire. :D Or in the summer skip the bath and let the morning dew on the waist high grass do the work.
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Jerry, I must say that any of my opinions are based only on my own personal experience with my flintlock guns.
I gave up on trying to sort the good from the half truth in reading about these guns. I was determined to learn how to make my rifle work , and be reliable, and so I resolved to use them exclusively for all my hunting. When my chickens, or turkeys or goats are threatened by predators, I grabbed my flintlock. I'm now at the point where I have absolute faith in my rifle or smoothbore, but it was a sometimes steep learning curve. Reliability is #1 for me.