AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: HawkinHolmes on January 17, 2016, 11:18:12 PM
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Hello everyone,
I'm new to the forum and am happy I landed upon it.
I collect a few types of rifles/guns:
a). 1881 to 1900 Marlin Lever action rifles
b). Winchester Model 1866 (yellow boys)
c). Henry Rifles
d). Marlin shotguns (Model 1898 through Model 30)
and now my newest potential is true Hawken rifles
Question: Do real Hawken rifles surface very often and if so does anyone know what the range in pricing is?
Thank you.
Mark
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There are a few that fall out of the woodwork every year. you might acquire a local gun or squirrel rifle for $10,000 or so. A full blown half stock plains rifle might fetch $40,000 and up. One with known provenance and ties to a known mountain man might command $75,000. . My wife keeps pushing for me to get rid of mine, but I am not tired of enjoying them.
Like any antique, the actual price is what a willing seller and a willing buyer agree too
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Let's see some pics, Don.
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http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-2402-percussion-plains-rifle-marked-s-hawken-st-louis-37381/
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/66/lid/1135
These both went fairly inexpensive compared to the prices noted above and are signed "S. Hawken" (Samuel Hawken).
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Sometimes there's a reason for a reasonable price. Do your research before buying. Because something is marked Hawken don't make it so. There are as many fake Hawkens as there are Indian guns. Usually at the Tulsa gun show I am asked to check at least one and sometimes two would be Hawken rifles. Some don't even look like Hawken's work and some do. In that case you must know what true age and use look like. No one can tell you how to do this. You have to have looked at a lot of old guns. Even then you could be fooled. When in doubt don't buy. LP
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You can expect interest and price to increase due to the recent movie, The Revenant. Your timing is a bit off.
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Notice that both rifles are described as "marked" and "stamped" with the Hawken name. In neither case is the auction company saying they were "made by..." You have to learn to read auction catalogs. The language is often very specific... and in this case the company is covering itself legally so that when and if the mark is proved spurious, they will not have to refund the money.
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The first one from Julia was a small game rifle for the local trade. They go for less than plains rifles. The second has some red flags. Drum and nipple, big chunk of wood replaced at the breech. Might be a restock of a Hawken barrel.
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Notice that both rifles are described as "marked" and "stamped" with the Hawken name. In neither case is the auction company saying they were "made by..." You have to learn to read auction catalogs. The language is often very specific... and in this case the company is covering itself legally so that when and if the mark is proved spurious, they will not have to refund the money.
Pretty typical for auction companies, you can't blame them.
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I don't blame them. If I were in the auction business I would do the same thing. No one can be an expert on everything and even experts can be wrong (its one reason I never use that term for myself). That said, it is pretty common for inexperienced buyers to read, and see, what they want to see. A friend of mine once described a famous dealer as "the master of the almost accurate description."
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And as a friend of mine said about one expert, "Well, he's not always right, but he's always certain".
Don't rely on one opinion.
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The first one from Julia was a small game rifle for the local trade. They go for less than plains rifles. The second has some red flags. Drum and nipple, big chunk of wood replaced at the breech. Might be a restock of a Hawken barrel.
My thoughts as well.
Dan
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When you see a rough looking barrel mark with red rust in the bottom, its not a good indication of authenticity.
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Louie, What did the Folsom indian gun bring?...Carl