AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: gizamo on March 21, 2016, 01:26:33 AM
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Anyone care to comment on what style patch box this may be?
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl163%2FGizamo1%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F20160320_171935_resized.jpg&hash=e21291be53a967f23cbae177aaa3d6a02bad9911) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/Gizamo1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160320_171935_resized.jpg.html)
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I don't know but I like it.
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Looks like a Bedford County to me.
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Looks like a very late design to me...
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The buttplate return looks like North Carolina to me. But, the patchbox doesn't look like any I've seen.
Hungry Horse
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Is it possibly a relatively modern, higher quality reproduction rifle? Can we see more of the gun? Shelby Gallien
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Lock seems to say Warranted and Tennessee.
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It is a signed original in .41 caliber. I bought it yesterday from a 77 year old gunsmith who aquired it in 1961
Giz
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Purdy nice old gun, I find the buttplate interesting. Don't know nothin' else about it though.
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Well, the lock was a late flint, at one time. It still looks Southern mountain to me.
Hungry Horse
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It is a signed original in .41 caliber
So, if it's signed, who signed it?
Wouldn't the maker's name give an indication of where he lived, thus leading to the style?
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It is a signed original in .41 caliber
So, if it's signed, who signed it?
Wouldn't the maker's name give an indication of where he lived, thus leading to the style?
Beats me...Maybe someone here can decipher it.... :)
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Nice Giz! Would love to see the cheek piece side and the side plate.
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G Joph Galespie ?? ::)
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If the good major's right we might have to tie up Dennis.
Hungry Horse
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Nice Giz! Would love to see the cheek piece side and the side plate.
Joel....
Too late. Didn't get the pics of that side of the gun. I brought it to my buddy Roy Stroh this afternoon. We removed the conversion parts and preserved them. He is going to reconvert the gun using a new lock and engraving it and aging it to match the original.....
Giz
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That butt plate does have the look of a Gillespie. I'm sure Dennis will weigh in on this one.
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In my opinion reconverting interpheres with the legitimate history of the gun. I know it done quite often, but that doesn't make it right. I have a very nice Lehigh that was converted to percussion during its working life, that will stay percussion at least as long as I own it.
Hungry Horse
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Not like any Gillespie I have seen. Some of the family spelled their name Galaspy but not Galespie. There was a late GA Gillespie named George Washington Gillespie that made a few rifles.
Dennis
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In my opinion reconverting interpheres with the legitimate history of the gun. I know it done quite often, but that doesn't make it right. I have a very nice Lehigh that was converted to percussion during its working life, that will stay percussion at least as long as I own it.
Hungry Horse
I agree... but in this case the original lock and associated parts are being preserved. A new touch hole liner is being fit to the existing threaded barrel hole. Then a new lock is being fit exactly to the original inlet in the stock. That lock will be aged to look original.
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The gun is obviously a very late flint, if indeed it ever was a flint. More than a few guns were built with converted locks that were never flintlocks in their working life. I just feel that reconverting is disenjenuious. Conversions were done in the past to increase the guns value, because flintlocks often bring a higher price at auction. That isn't always the case today. Many collectors prefer to represent the gun as it was for the majority of its working life. And, often consider a reconversion suspect in other areas because of this "restoration".
Hungry Horse
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I have always believed that while everyone is entitled to their opinion, the only opinion that counts is the person that owns the rifle. Do what you want, its yours.
Michael
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The gun is obviously a very late flint, if indeed it ever was a flint. More than a few guns were built with converted locks that were never flintlocks in their working life. I just feel that reconverting is disenjenuious. Conversions were done in the past to increase the guns value, because flintlocks often bring a higher price at auction. That isn't always the case today. Many collectors prefer to represent the gun as it was for the majority of its working life. And, often consider a reconversion suspect in other areas because of this "restoration".
Hungry Horse
I am preserving the parts. In less then a hour the gun can be put back to the "as found condition ". That is why I am replacing the entire lock assembly with a new one.
I would never alter the original lock. And I have documented the original condition. The original parts are bagged and will stay with the gun.
The gun has a original barrel with a good bore. I intend to hunt with it as it was most likely made. :)
I agree with some of your points. And the spirit of your point of view.
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Gizmo
What you are doing is no more than would have been done back in the day if someone wanted the gun serviceable as a flint rifle except the owner probably would have tossed the old lock. I'm sure the rifle will be more collectable with the original parts accompanying it. My opinion is that the first butcher job occured when the rifle was percussioned. Part of its history for sure but most likely not as originally built. I have no problem putting one back as close to original as is practical. Tim
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I was fine with all your plans until you got to the hunting with it part
I have a friend who is missing two fingers as a result of hunting with an original 40 cal. He was using a light load to hunt squirrels. Have your smith replace the barrel along with the lock.
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Hi Don....
I am pretty much in tune with what you just shared...
The barrel is in good condition. Intend to take it out and proof it.
Did your friend proof the gun?
Giz
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.......... Intend to take it out and proof it.
:( :'(
And if the barrel fails under the proof load, oh well, it was just an old gun anyway.
-Ron
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I got lots of guns, I wouldn't need to shoot it if it were mine. But that's just me. I'd leave it alone.....mostly cause I'm lazy.... :P
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I got lots of guns, I wouldn't need to shoot it if it were mine. But that's just me. I'd leave it alone.....mostly cause I'm lazy.... :P
Hardly call you lazy.... ;)
Your pal Roy and I are doing the work on this one. I will prolly use it more for living history demos then anything else.....
Giz
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The guns are not live fired at my demos. They are for display and a means to discuss/interpret their importance in the historical narrative and time line.....with those interested and attending the event. They are used as a educational tool, only.
Giz
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Points can be made without getting personal. Any more remarks that are largely aimed at the person, not the idea, will result in a warning which is step 1 to getting a vacation from ALR.
Regarding shooting original rifles, the thoughts on this have changed since the early years of the NMLRA, when it was common. Most builders of double flint guns recycle old percussion shotgun barrels. I've shot my share of original percussion double barreled shotguns and an original rifle or two. Think about the thickness of an original double percussion shotgun barrel compared to a small bore squirrel rifle. Hmmmm. Just food for thought. Would you ban the building of double barrel flint guns as unsafe? If not, why are they safer than small bore rifle barrels, given the same level of care and testing?
I can't speak for the OP but if he says that in DEMOS he does not use live ammo loads but he intends to hunt with a gun, I am not confused by that.