AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Chowmi on May 19, 2016, 10:06:48 PM
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The post below was originally part of Davebozell's "Show us your current project" thread. The moderators have split the many projects in the original thread out into individual threads so the members can more easily ask questions and the builders can more easily answer.
Currently working on a Chamber's Isaac Haines in .54 Cal.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7763/26685212652_5b516b286d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GE5G2j)IMG_3522 (https://flic.kr/p/GE5G2j) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
Barrel and lockplate are in. I'm inletting the breech block and tang now.
Curtis,
I will also be doing RCA #43 at the WKU seminar. I wimped out and had Mark Wheland inlet the barrel and ramrod for me.
See you there!
Norm
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Curtis,
I will also be doing RCA #43 at the WKU seminar. I wimped out and had Mark Wheland inlet the barrel and ramrod for me.
See you there!
Norm
Norm, looking forward to seeing you in class! I all juiced up and ready to go!!
Curtis
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It occurred to me that I have neglected this thread. I did post some questions about patchbox inletting on another thread, but thought I would re-consolidate my progress into this thread.
This build has been interrupted by starting another gun from a blank at WKU last year, and also building a Kibler SMR.
To catch up from the last post:
Butt Plate inletted last spring:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7376/27250818734_affb2de28e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Hw4z1j)IMG_3523 (https://flic.kr/p/Hw4z1j) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
Ramrod Thimbles, entry pipe, and nose-cap are on:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7176/27862598265_594bb3e8fb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Js86Kg)IMG_3527 (https://flic.kr/p/Js86Kg) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
I countersunk the hole for the copper rivet in the nose-cap too much. I also didn't cut enough off of the rivet, so when I peened it down it work hardened and did not fill the countersink. This photo is prior to filing it down. The nose cap is pretty thick, so I expect I will file it down a bit which will help. It will also help with making it more flush with the wood behind the nose cap.
You can see what I have to fix here:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7284/27862590485_646c3f9e55.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Js84r8)IMG_3529 (https://flic.kr/p/Js84r8) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
Toe plate is in. I took too much wood underneath a portion of the inlet, and you can see the dip in the brass in the photo.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/690/31620750951_d960ae6e6a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QbdBBe)IMG_3547 (https://flic.kr/p/QbdBBe) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
I did some initial shaping of the stock, and final shaping of the patchbox area in preparation for inletting the patchbox. Here is a rough line drawing of the patch box:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/417/31589654672_07a374f91a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Q8teLu)IMG_3541 (https://flic.kr/p/Q8teLu) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
Patchbox finial inlet and rough filed. Still working on the inlet for the lid. The patchbox is a copy of RCA #80
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/309/31700121583_f806fa5ffb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QiepJp)IMG_3643 (https://flic.kr/p/QiepJp) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/588/32389686641_8fb77e4044_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RmaBp8)IMG_3644 (https://flic.kr/p/RmaBp8) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
I'm not particularly good at inletting, and this was the most complex inlet I have done. Curved surface and lots of nooks and crannies on the finial. I went slow and am pretty happy with the result. It's probably my best inlet so far, which may not be saying much.
I've also removed a fair amount of wood from everywhere on the stock, skinnied up the lock panel, shaped the cheek piece, inlet the side panel etc etc.
This gun will be a mish mash of Isaac Haines rifles. My choices were based more on what I thought I could do than trying to emulate one particular rifle.
Cheers,
Norm
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Nobody ever mentioned this, but if you were going to do a lower buttstock molding you should do it before you do the box. Of course you can still do an incised line. It all looks good from where I'm sitting.
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Mike,
that's a good point, thank you. There isn't much room, but I think I will fit in an incised line.
Learn something every day!
Norm
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Good work there Norm. I haven't done a full patchbox yet myself, looks like it's gotta be a nerve-wracking job! Post some pics when you get the side panels on.
Curtis
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Curtis,
I had been putting this off for quite a while because I was afraid to bugger it up. So far, it is going better than I expected. I will post pictures soon. I'm having some computer issue, and once I resolve them, I will post photos and lessons learned from it. (Typing from my iPad now)
Since my last post, I have inletted both side plates. I did a passable job, but not great. Still working on my inletting skills.
I have filed the edge of one of the sideplates to mate with the patchbox lid. I will do the other one tomorrow, then cut and file the butt-plate end of the box so that I can re-install the butt plate.
I learned a bunch of good lessons doing this, but will post all of that when I can sit at a keyboard and type, along with some pictures.
Cheers, norm.
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The patch box is inlet now. Here are a few photos:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/689/31808819623_8780cd5510_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QsQvSx)IMG_3653 (https://flic.kr/p/QsQvSx) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/508/32467685372_39b45e5ca8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rt4nGQ)IMG_3654 (https://flic.kr/p/Rt4nGQ) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
I have not drilled and gouged out the patch box cavity or done anything with the release mechanism yet. Obviously, I need to trim and file the lid to the butt plate profile as well.
I have done some preliminary filing of the brass to match the wood, but there is a ways to go on that.
I'm pretty happy with it so far. This is my first patch box, and I was anticipating a major disaster. No disaster as of yet....
Here are a few lessons learned:
The form I used to bend the patch box lid was not uniform enough. Additionally, when I was filing some of the knuckles, too much of the lid was protruding out of the vise and I managed to bend the lid out of true when the file caught an edge. It's not quite straight anymore. I corrected some of that back in the bending form, but not all of it. I will likely have to file it down such that you won't notice on the outside face, but it will be obvious when the patch box is open.
I miss-measured the width of the lid from the blown-up photos I had. It was hard to tell which line was the edge of the lid, and which was an engraved line. The key to seeing that is to look at the cut-out in the butt plate on the picture. Had I done that, I would have got it right. In the end, the lid is about 1/8" too wide.
I realized this after I inlet the side plates. So, I had to file down the inside edges of the side plates to allow the lid to close. In the end, the patchbox is the right overall size, just mis-proportioned between the lid and side plates.
My inletting still needs work. Yup, I know that. I also did not screw down the first sideplate before I drew the outline and inlet it. That was a mistake. For the second one, I drilled the holes in the sideplate and stock, and screwed it down, then drew the outline for stabbing it in. That worked much better.
You can see a gap in the butt plate inlet. I inlet the butt plate quite some time ago, but if memory serves, it is an issue with the countersink for the butt plate return screw. It matches up very well without the screw in, and also did so before I countersunk that hole. I'll work on that part as well.
I didn't quite get the inlet of the hinge even. The bottom of the hinge protrudes a bit more from the stock than does the top of the hinge. I will file a bit off to reduce the effect, but it will always show.
I had initially intended to use Jacob Dickert's solution (as stated in Grenville) for the front portion of the sideplate where it meets the hinge. In that solution, you make a 90 degree bend down, and then curve an extension forward to go under the hinge. That holds the front end of the sideplate down. I chose not to do that because I thought it would be difficult to get a clean inlet, starting with that portion that extends down into the stock.
So, I used another technique from Grenville, which is put two 45 degree bevels on the front edge of the sideplate, making a point. I then engraved and filed a 90 degree trough in the back end of the hinge knuckle for the side plate to mate into. I like that technique. I did a better job on the lower sideplate than I did on the upper sideplate.
The side plates are flat pieces of brass, not curved in any way to match the profile of the stock. The sheet brass was pretty thick, about .060". There isn't much curve on those portions of the stock, but there is a little. My solution was to leave a little bit proud of the wood, and I am filing the sideplates to create a little bit of a curve on them.
That's about all I can think of. My biggest lesson was that in order to learn, I just needed to get in there and do it. I didn't do a great job, but the important part is that I did it, and learned from it.
Cheers,
Norm
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coming along nicely, we are our own biggest critics,don't be so hard on yourself. There's lots going on with that end of the rifle and your making it all come together.
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Thanks Joe!
I'm deliberately critical of my own work, so that I might remember what not to do next time!
Question:
How deep do you guys usually make the patch box cavity? A better question might be, how much wood do you leave on the back side? I couldn't find anything about it in Grenville.
Cheers,
Norm
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You should be able to "fit a Snickers bar in there." So I am told and I believe the picture is a good one.
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Looks like you overcame the issues pretty well, Norm. It should make for a nice rifle when you are finished with it. Isn't all fixing your own mistakes just the most fun you can have, lol? ;D
Curtis
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Hi Norm,
It is looking good!
dave
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Thanks Curtis and Dave!
I've made a bit of progress on the patchbox. I'll post pictures a bit later.
Patch box is filed down, about ready to move on to sandpaper.
I made a cutout in the butt and installed the release catch and spring. The release mechanism is in kit form that I bought along with the rifle from Chambers. I filed and shaped the catch bit that attaches to the lid. When I tried to install it on the lid by peening it into the countersink, it just wouldn't peen well. I had annealed it, but maybe not well enough. As I pounded on it harder, it just began to slip down the vise jaws. In frustration, I low temp silver soldered it in. That worked, but the difference in color from the solder to the steel catch is obvious.
I will likely make a new catch from brass and install it instead. I'm gonna sleep on it for a while.
I drilled the hole for the pushrod by eye, and that worked out really well. Hit right where I expected.
The spring on the release is very strong. It takes super human thumb strength to release the lid. I will file the spring down to reduce the tension. I might also file the face of the catch down a bit to reduce the amount of travel needed. I'll see how reducing the spring tension works first.
Last part is to widen the hole in the butt plate return and then trial fit the push rod and file until it is the right length.
After that, install the spring to push the lid open and create the patch box cavity. I just got two Forstner bits (1" and 1 1/4") to do this.
That's all I could get to today,
Cheers,
Norm
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I made a fair bit of progress yesterday and today on the patch box. I know this site thrives on pictures, but I live in the sticks, and internet is at about 1990 internet speeds right now.
Anyway,
I drilled the hole in the butt plate return for the release button. This took forever just to drill that huge hole.
I then filed, tested, filed, etc etc. to get the push rod to the right length to release the lid. That worked well.
The next part didn't work so well.
I filed away at the spring for the release mechanism and managed to reduce the force required to open the catch by quite a bit. The down-side is that I suspect I changed the internal tension on the spring, because now the spring's resting position is different. Bugger. Upon re-assembly, the catch no longer engages the retaining catch on the patch box lid. To illustrate, the catch and spring that I have is a similar configuration to the hand and spring on a Colt percussion revolver. The spring now does not push the catch (or the "hand" on a colt) forward enough to engage the retaining catch on the lid. All worked perfectly before I filed the spring. Not anymore.
I think the solution to this is to glue in a wood shim, thus moving the catch closer to the retaining catch on the lid. I suppose pictures would help....
I thought I would sleep on the spring issue, so I then drilled the cavity with 1 1/4 inch Forstner bits and then chiseled away to get the cavity opened up. I still have some cleanup to do there.
I've been trying to upload photos, but it seems that's not going to happen right now.
More later,
Cheers,
Norm
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I'm having a bit of difficulty visualizing your situation with the spring (other than it has moved away and don't work no more!). Have confidence in yourself, and looking at it with fresh eyes in the morning will help. You may get lucky and have the solution appear in a dream tonight - that happened to me once or twice. At the very worst you can start with a new spring. Post those pics if your internet speed up a bit.
Curtis
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Curtis,
It's hard to describe, I didn't really expect anyone to get it! I'll post pictures when I can.
Cheers,
Norm
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Okay,
internet working now.
Here's a few photos:
Patchbox and release button:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/735/32523460232_e9a230fc7d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RxZeCm)IMG_3660 (https://flic.kr/p/RxZeCm) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
Cavity:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/642/32554181321_b51a6267c6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RAGFWi)IMG_3661 (https://flic.kr/p/RAGFWi) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
My drawing of the spring problem, viewed looking at the butt end with the butt plate off:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/597/31864427593_a19a0475bb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QxKwbD)CCF02022017_00000 (https://flic.kr/p/QxKwbD) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
Bottom drawing is how it was prior to filing the spring. Top drawing is how it is now. The spring bent or warped closer to the catch, which then results in the catch not being in the right place. The spring rests against the wood cut out, so my solution is to inlet a shim, which will rotate the entire spring/catch mechanism counter-clockwise and put it back into alignment.
Cheers,
Norm
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Norm, from your sketches I think you could bent that back to the correct position. If not you could heat it, bend it and the re-heat treat it. How is it attached to the latch, is it inserted into a slot?
Curtis
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Curtis,
It looks to have been cast as a single piece, catch and spring.
I may see if I can bend. Frankly, my understanding of heating and tempering springs is poor. The reason I had thought to do the wood shim is that I know I can do the woodwork, I'm not so sure that I can properly re-temper the spring if I heat it! Seemed like a lower risk option.
I have Suzanne Warren Bicio's book about hardening, tempering, normalizing metals. I may have a look again through that.
I have plenty of other things to do, so I will let it sit for a bit rather than rush headlong into a mistake.
Cheers,
Norm
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From the drawing I do not see how the spring would exert any force at all on the pivoting catch that is in the buttstock.
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Rich,
the spring and catch are a single piece. It is held in the stock by a screw through the bottom of it. The screw part being the pivot. The whole thing sits in a recess in the stock. The spring rests against the wood which is what provides something for it to push against.
I hope that makes sense. I just don't have any pictures of the installation.
I managed to bend the spring back a bit, and now it all works. I also installed the spring to push the lid open when the catch is released.
The patch box is now fully installed and functional, just some cleanup to do.
Success!
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That's looking great to me, Norm. I haven't done a brass box yet, so thanks for these posts.
Mike
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Mike,
thank you. With your skills, it will be no problem to do a brass patchbox. I found that I just needed to think through everything, and spend a lot of time looking at books/pictures.
I didn't want to do a build-along thread, because frankly I didn't want anyone to think that this is how it should be done. I had thought to do a thread titled "watch an idiot make a patchbox!", but I didn't want to break up my workflow with taking too many pictures.
In the end, I think I will post a wrap-up of my lessons learned so that other new guys (or those who haven't done it) could learn from it.
Hope to see you in June at WKU!
Norm
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Yep,
Shim the spring.
Just be sure there will be enough throw to clear the hook on the patch box lid, otherwise it will be 'locked shut'. :o
Cheers,
Smoketown
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I know it's been awhile since I posted progress on this build. It's been busy lately. I was in Asia for two weeks etc etc.
I don't have any pictures right now, (and know that this forum lives on pictures...). but...
I think I have the stock down to final shaping, butt to muzzle cap. I had a lot of issues with this that were entirely self generated. It's now about as good as I can get it, and nice and thin. I've sanded it down to 220 grit, whiskered, 220 again, and then whiskered again and 320 grit after that.
I then took a bit of a break from stock sanding and shaping so that I can look at it later with fresh eyes. I filed, sanded and polished the ramrod thimbles and the triggerguard.
I've had a real issue with the trigger guard. The bow of the guard was twisted quite a bit, and I didn't see it until the guard was inlet and the stock was shaped. It was close to 25-30 degrees off. to explain, the bottom of the bow should be parallel to the top flat of the barrel. It was not. It was way off. I know, should have seen it earlier. I don't think I twisted it during the build, but can't be sure. Anyway, I tried bending it several times and always seemed to end up bending or twisting parts that didn't need it, and then having to correct the mistake. I finally pinned it into the stock and twisted/bent the bow in situ. It worked a bit. It's not great, but I'll accept it for now.
Tomorrow, I expect to have the trigger and set trigger polished up, as well as the muzzle cap, and maybe finish up the rear sight. The kit comes with a silver front sight with a brass base. I think I will make my own folded brass front sight.
Pictures tomorrow, I hope,
cheers,
Norm
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Forgot to add this to my last post:
I learned a few things in the process of filing and polishing my brass.
For one thing, it's wonderful to have softer brass. Kudos to Chambers' for the brass hardware they supply. I have worked with brass from other vendors and it was a trial of endurance.
The biggest lesson learned was that brass can be scraped after filing. I had seen a post from ( I believe it was) DaveC2 that mentioned using a scraper on the butt plate. In any event, I have more cabinet scrapers from woodcraft than I need, so I tried one on the brass. With a light touch, it works very well to remove filing marks from the brass before you move to sandpaper.
I was very happy with the results, and it saved me a bunch of time and effort at sanding. This may not be news to anyone, but it was a welcome addition to my small bag of tricks.
cheers,
Norm
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I've managed to make some progress, albeit while sneaking away for one or two hours at a time. At my pace, that means only partly finishing any job at hand.
The only assembly task left is to drill for, and install the touch hole liner.
The rest is checking for final shaping, polishing metal, carving, engraving and of course wood finishing.
Here's an overall pic of the rifle:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3805/33190356021_940b71c3ac_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SyVfvB)IMG_3665 (https://flic.kr/p/SyVfvB) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
It was a big day for me today, because I did my first engraving on a rifle. When I say engraving, I really mean I did a couple of lines. Still, a big deal for me because it turned out alright. Here's the sideplate with a couple of accent lines.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3880/33190348831_e4b4fa9804_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SyVdnD)IMG_3670 (https://flic.kr/p/SyVdnD) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
Bolstered by my amazing engraving skills on the sideplate, I did the lines on the trigger guard...
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3874/32475439844_02b2208df0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RtK7QC)IMG_3668 (https://flic.kr/p/RtK7QC) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
I had already inlet and polished the ramrod entry thimble when I looked through my books and realized that the entry thimble return (is that the right word? I mean the bit that extends behind the pipe towards the trigger. Maybe it should be the finial??) should not be plain and curved. It should have 3 facets on it, at least on all the Isaac Haines rifles I have pictures of.
So, I filed three facets on the entry return/thingy/finial, and then did a semi-wedding band at the back end of said thingy.
This was another first for me, modifying a brass part to somewhat match an original. My result is not perfect, but I think it adds, rather than detracts from the rifle.
Here it is:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2863/33162899162_40407aae44_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Swuwxu)IMG_3669 (https://flic.kr/p/Swuwxu) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
The kit I have came with a silver front sight and a brass base. I chose to make my own brass front sight. I made it out of a single piece of .040 brass, using the folding method. I had never done that before, and I really enjoyed doing it. There is ample evidence that this was done on early rifles.
I made it quite tall, and then when I got to the point of filing the profile of the blade I realized I had no idea what to do. I filed a bit, and now it looks somewhat like a bottlenose dolphin. Oops.
Anyway, it's so tall that I'm sure it will need re-shaping. If not, I'll happily make another.
Here's that:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/596/32475442014_6ceededb6a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RtK8u3)IMG_3667 (https://flic.kr/p/RtK8u3) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
I did a bunch of other small things on the gun that won't show in photos.
That's all for now,
Cheers,
Norm
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Looking good, Norm! Sounds like a good, satisfying day. It's amazing how a couple engraved lines will dress something up. While your engraved lines may be a "simple" addition, parallel lines are one of the most difficult things to do well, and you did a great job with them!
Ed
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3880/33190348831_e4b4fa9804_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SyVdnD)IMG_3670 (https://flic.kr/p/SyVdnD) by chowmif16 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chowmi/), on Flickr
Norm, you might have shot this photo sort of from a low angle. Hard to tell. Did you want the lock panel to be that tall above the top lock bolt? For Lancaster rifles the tops of the lock moldings often appear to Lind up with the top edge of the barrel side flat. In other words the wood at the breech, beside the tang, often tapers down at about the same angle as the sloping barrel flats. Varies by school. Less taper on most Bucks County rifles.
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Great progress Norm, it looks great. Now get some pencil marks on it, don't forget to stock up on the erasers!
Curtis
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Ed, Curtis,
thanks guys!
Pencil lines have already started, eraser already well used!
Now I have tangible evidence that I cannot draw!
Cheers,
Norm
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I've done a bit of carving on the Isaac Haines. This is my first attempt at carving a rifle. I could / should have practiced more on a piece of scrap, but instead I just dove right in.
I did the entry thimble carving first, and you can see some improvement when I went to the tang carving.
I didn't really visualize the entry pipe carving correctly when I got to the shaping of the vines and tendrils.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FmZ49kk%2FIMG_3674.jpg&hash=ea1a92ff9a3c864de596e766421bdb66711c1ff0) (http://ibb.co/g2HjJ5)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FivrN5k%2FIMG_3675.jpg&hash=d09292a39b265f6697765b4eee380c99cc1285fa) (http://ibb.co/cWnvQk)
Here is the tang carving. Still needs some cleanup and I need to finish the beavertails etc. I think this carving went much better than the entry pipe carving.
Most important part is that I learned a lot. My chisels were much sharper when I did this part, and that made it easier. I think I've finally figured out how to sharpen.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fcwk4J5%2FIMG_3671.jpg&hash=0faacd06ef3ad0b6be5d3963adec8d82d44e8d99) (http://ibb.co/iMYDBQ)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FcYnJd5%2FIMG_3673.jpg&hash=181dfd821c786e6a34f522f117f6c280c62a5364) (http://ibb.co/ixsjJ5)
I've got one of Jim Kibler's carving practice blanks, and I will practice the carving on the butt-stock before I do it on the rifle.
Critiques are welcomed and encouraged.
Cheers,
Chowmi
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Chowmi much better than mine. They look like a ragged toothed beaver with a hang over. Maybe that's why I like smr rifles so well. Looks very good to me..! Oldtravler
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Looking pretty good, Norm! I agree, the tang carving is much better than the entry thimble.... I have good faith that after you gained the experience and improved on the tang carving that you can go back and do a little reshaping and improving on some of the lines on the entry thimble carving. It would be very subtle minor changes. You can do it!
Curtis
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Curtis,
Exactly right. I'm going to sit on it for a bit while I do the rest of the carving and then re-visit the entry thimble carving with a fresh eye. I may be able to correct some mistakes.
Honestly, the pictures make it look better than it is in real life.
Even if I can't fix it, it will look good at 5 to 10 feet vantage point!!
This gun was never going to be a masterpiece, the learning is the most important part. It's a stepping stone to future builds.
And the carving won't affect how well it shoots!
Cheers,
Norm.
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Hi Norm,
It is looking very good! I wish you could have brought it when you visited last week.
dave
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Dave,
Thank you. I too wish I could have brought it.
We had such a great time in Vermont that I think we will go again in the future. Will certainly avoid the April rains though!
If we go next year I will try to bring a rifle or two with me.
I'm hoping to get some work done on the Isaac Haines here in the next few weeks and will post progress. Spring honey-do projects may impede my progress though!
Cheers,
Norm.
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I've finally finished my Isaac Haines enough to get out and shoot it. I still have some cleanup to do on a few things, need new lock bolts, and have to get the courage to engrave it.
I will take some better pictures and post them soon.
I put about 40 or 50 rounds through it today, and it was awesome. Made me feel like a kid again.
The gun functioned perfectly. Never had a mis/hang-fire, never had to change or knap the flint through all 40 or so shots. That's never happened to me before!
I got the sights drifted and filed down to about bullseye at 25 yards. I forgot to wear my contact lenses, and didn't bring glasses either. Groups weren't great, but that is also due to patch burn through. They were quite loose and I didn't bring the next size up round ball or thicker patches.
Crappy iPhone pic:
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FnmRumv%2FIMG_1176.jpg&hash=1bb8883991e71ee58003e00dcbfb4f76c81f913f) (http://ibb.co/kEqLRv)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fd48wzF%2FIMG_1177.jpg&hash=ae55415af78fe7edcd98534aba6d4eb2d76f46e2) (http://ibb.co/kXfn6v)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FiHdwzF%2FIMG_1178.jpg&hash=cf8e2d39622d74a4f00eae1b9ca8b445fb8e9ed3) (http://ibb.co/d0GS6v)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FdJ1GzF%2FIMG_1180.jpg&hash=5f05e4b2a87cf7602c3f0aa2b613bf5af40e88af) (http://ibb.co/mtG5ta)
This rifle build taught me a lot. The carving is not good, and the background smoothing is not good either for the most part. That's okay, because learning has occurred. This rifle was always about learning, not making a masterpiece.
I also learned a lot about lock and brass polishing. Late in the game, I switched to using the Gesswein stones that Acer recommended in one of the lock polishing posts. They are awesome and have made life much easier in that respect.
I am considering fire blueing or charcoal blueing the barrel and trigger assembly. Haven't decided quite yet. I have a scrap barrel that I will run some tests on first.
I'll take some better pictures soon and post them. Critiques are always welcome and encouraged.
cheers,
Norm
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Looks good to me Norm! Looking forward to some more photos.
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Very nice sir. May I ask what finish you used on your rifle? I have a Haines rifle underway myself, and like you, finding time to work on it is a sometimes thing.
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Yep, that's a fine looking finish Norm. You did well there.
The only suggestion I'd have is to lay some engraving on that patchbox. The rest of the gun is calling for it. If you are not that confident, Mike is saying he's available to do some engraving these days.
For the metal, I like the Ed Wenger "cold blue then rub it back a bit" finish. To me Ed's finish looks like a 10 year old gun that has been used, but cherished and well treated.
I like your work Norm. Best wishes, and God Bless, Marc
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Well Done
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Yup,nice job and glad she shoots well for you as well.
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Very nice sir. May I ask what finish you used on your rifle? I have a Haines rifle underway myself, and like you, finding time to work on it is a sometimes thing.
Rick,
I used Ye Olde Aqua Fortis from TOTW, then LMF Lancaster maple stain on top of that. I have used that combination once before and like it.
This time it came out darker than I wanted, for two reasons I think:
I think I over blushed the AF.
I was way too heavy handed with the LMF Lancaster Maple. I rubbed it back with some denatured alcohol, which helped.
After the stain, I did 3 coats of permalyn sealer, then Chamber's Traditional Oil Finish.
I rubbed the final finish back a bit with rottenstone and mineral oil.
When I finally get some decent photos up, you will see that I didn't do a particularly good job on the oil finish on certain parts of the rifle. I should have been more patient, and smoothed it between coats I think.
Marc,
I will do the engraving. I am going to practice the particular pattern a few times first (which is what I should have done with the carving). I will attempt to replicate a particular Isaac Haines patch box and toe plate.
Thanks for all the compliments, It's nice to step back and forget the mistakes and appreciate it as a functional rifle!
Cheers,
Norm
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Here are some photos. I thought I would take them outside in a rustic setting. turns out the green grass throws a green hue in some of the photos. Sorry.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FkWNcPF%2FIMG_3793.jpg&hash=a985ad6b5770f2b3f16bcdfa9ea2908308019524) (http://ibb.co/cQFxPF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fca6hrv%2FIMG_3794.jpg&hash=df86d3582f6b6f9e9a20a8bb335c77cbfabc3cca) (http://ibb.co/kLnBjF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fcm36Ja%2FIMG_3795.jpg&hash=a6c1ad565c0d83366cb3c5964f6bd1127e6b547b) (http://ibb.co/h2QaBv)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FdJx0da%2FIMG_3796.jpg&hash=8a3dd10825223cc35f2276260331962cf158045f) (http://ibb.co/dRfxPF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FmRgtya%2FIMG_3797.jpg&hash=2d6bff23a5d8810043f704f9b2eddb451835d941) (http://ibb.co/gmAWjF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fbxzfda%2FIMG_3800.jpg&hash=f7cca18383c83ea906d4f499e49b322e0666a4af) (http://ibb.co/gDL8Wv)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FhGkWjF%2FIMG_3801.jpg&hash=ea2aae691d04dafe5935b6bcf9dc4cedd8138adc) (http://ibb.co/giAxPF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FcT2cPF%2FIMG_3802.jpg&hash=83e0c83f1f5eee88d6aace7a0ceaac2492d93a88) (http://ibb.co/gpefda)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fc7GFBv%2FIMG_3803.jpg&hash=384927fc7be9df11ab0d53b9ea55a9dc78f9c08c) (http://ibb.co/g6T6Ja)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FkCvTya%2FIMG_3804.jpg&hash=6d8960c780645d87fd95d205626ffcc91041ef67) (http://ibb.co/cDXmjF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FhSo3Wv%2FIMG_3805.jpg&hash=dc4ad3821b22b693eacd8e89fdd5fc6fb5ca2129) (http://ibb.co/cASada)
Lots of lessons learned on this rifle, but man I have had a good time shooting it over the past two days. Even hit a 5ft x5 ft steel plate at 300 yards on my second try.
Cheers,
Norm
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Very nice rifle..
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Norm, that's a fine looking rifle. Well done!
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Norm nice job I like it an the stain. Oldtravler
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Here are some photos. I thought I would take them outside in a rustic setting. turns out the green grass throws a green hue in some of the photos. Sorry.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FkWNcPF%2FIMG_3793.jpg&hash=a985ad6b5770f2b3f16bcdfa9ea2908308019524) (http://ibb.co/cQFxPF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fca6hrv%2FIMG_3794.jpg&hash=df86d3582f6b6f9e9a20a8bb335c77cbfabc3cca) (http://ibb.co/kLnBjF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fcm36Ja%2FIMG_3795.jpg&hash=a6c1ad565c0d83366cb3c5964f6bd1127e6b547b) (http://ibb.co/h2QaBv)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FdJx0da%2FIMG_3796.jpg&hash=8a3dd10825223cc35f2276260331962cf158045f) (http://ibb.co/dRfxPF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FmRgtya%2FIMG_3797.jpg&hash=2d6bff23a5d8810043f704f9b2eddb451835d941) (http://ibb.co/gmAWjF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fbxzfda%2FIMG_3800.jpg&hash=f7cca18383c83ea906d4f499e49b322e0666a4af) (http://ibb.co/gDL8Wv)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FhGkWjF%2FIMG_3801.jpg&hash=ea2aae691d04dafe5935b6bcf9dc4cedd8138adc) (http://ibb.co/giAxPF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FcT2cPF%2FIMG_3802.jpg&hash=83e0c83f1f5eee88d6aace7a0ceaac2492d93a88) (http://ibb.co/gpefda)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fc7GFBv%2FIMG_3803.jpg&hash=384927fc7be9df11ab0d53b9ea55a9dc78f9c08c) (http://ibb.co/g6T6Ja)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FkCvTya%2FIMG_3804.jpg&hash=6d8960c780645d87fd95d205626ffcc91041ef67) (http://ibb.co/cDXmjF)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FhSo3Wv%2FIMG_3805.jpg&hash=dc4ad3821b22b693eacd8e89fdd5fc6fb5ca2129) (http://ibb.co/cASada)
Lots of lessons learned on this rifle, but man I have had a good time shooting it over the past two days. Even hit a 5ft x5 ft steel plate at 300 yards on my second try.
Cheers,
Norm
Are you going to leave the lock & barrel "in the white"? Looks great to me and glad to hear it shoots really well. I'm a practical sort so if a rifle (or load) won't shoot good, its not interesting no matter how nice the gun looks. For me, functionality trumps appearance most of the time but you've done both pretty well. Bravo!
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Taco,
You are right about function over form being important, and that is a good lesson. As a new builder, I have been obsessed with form and improving my skills.
I am of two minds about the finish on the barrel and lock. I try to stay accurate to what may have been done at the time.
I will likely leave the lock in the white.
For the barrel, I may fire blue it or charcoal blue it. I think fire blueing is probably more correct historically. I do not intend to brown it.
Cheers,
Norm
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Nicely done, Norm! Great job on the architecture. That's the important part, everything else will follow. If you decide to fire blue the barrel, I'd be very interested in seeing the results. Thanks for posting, and again, nice!
Ed
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Nicely done, Norm! Great job on the architecture. That's the important part, everything else will follow. If you decide to fire blue the barrel, I'd be very interested in seeing the results. Thanks for posting, and again, nice!
Ed
Thank you, Ed!
I still have not decided on whether to fire blue the barrel, but I'm pretty much set on trying it on a scrap pistol barrel I have. Success with the pistol barrel may prompt me to do it on this gun.
I just went back over Jack Brooks' tutorial on it from his website, and my notes from class.
I will post results of whatever I do.
Cheers,
Norm
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Hi Norm, just read every post in this thread. I'm building a Chamber's Early Lancaster and your posts and pics were a treasure. THANKS! I just lack deciding on a design, fabricating and installing the patchbox, doing wood carvings, final finish on wood and brass, and engraving. I'm a woodcarver so looking forward to carving.