AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: snapper on June 04, 2016, 06:02:21 PM
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My newly built AH need to get sighted in and a load worked up before I leave for Friendship with it next week.
The shooting session certainly did not go without a few issues, and I ended up quitting before I was completely satisfied.
All shots were with 86 grains of 2f swiss, and a .060" fiber wad.
The first picture is with a GG bullet, 540 grains, 100 yards, 3 shots. Measures about 11/16"
The second picture is with PP bullet, 525 grains, 100 yards, 2 shots. Measures about .25" I quit shooting the PP and did not shoot the third shot because I thought that I was having some accuracy issues, but when I went to pull the target realized that I was looking at the wrong bullet holes. Like I said, I was having some issues.....
Fleener
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi161.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft209%2Fsnapper245%2F2016%2520Alex%2520Henry%2FDSCN2938_zps5mw6gco5.jpg&hash=2a8cdc0585550faf0af2edfcd0e37144668875ee) (http://s161.photobucket.com/user/snapper245/media/2016%20Alex%20Henry/DSCN2938_zps5mw6gco5.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi161.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft209%2Fsnapper245%2F2016%2520Alex%2520Henry%2FDSCN2939_zpselajzfhn.jpg&hash=e4ec405d66554cff560b0babea70884527e5a5fd) (http://s161.photobucket.com/user/snapper245/media/2016%20Alex%20Henry/DSCN2939_zpselajzfhn.jpg.html)
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Why did the heavier bullets shoot higher than the lighter ones?
Did you change your sights or aim in a different spot?
11/16 = sub MOA
.25 = 1/4" MOA
Ain't that good enough for ya?
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The bad thing is that both the GG and the PP bullets that shot those groups were too tight in the bore I think. The PP is perhaps close enough, the GG are way too tight. Seemed odd that they loaded like a SOB then about 3/4 way down the bore, just dropped. I cant tell if the the bore gets larger to the breach, but those bullets indicate that.
I finished up a box of GG and they loaded perfectly, then switch to a different box and got the loading issues.
I am going to play with the sizing, and that might make the groups open up.
I think I did drop my sights 5 min. from one group to the next, but, not enough to cause the 10" spread.
fleener
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The bad thing is that both the GG and the PP bullets that shot those groups were too tight in the bore I think. The PP is perhaps close enough, the GG are way too tight. Seemed odd that they loaded like a SOB then about 3/4 way down the bore, just dropped. I cant tell if the the bore gets larger to the breach, but those bullets indicate that.
I finished up a box of GG and they loaded perfectly, then switch to a different box and got the loading issues.
I am going to play with the sizing, and that might make the groups open up.
I think I did drop my sights 5 min. from one group to the next, but, not enough to cause the 10" spread.
fleener
Art,
That sounds like a hefty choke to me. The original Alex Henry barreled Whitworth I shot for 11 years had a
very noticeable choke from the muzzle to 8" down the barrel before it freed up. I used the old Sharps/Bailey 451112
in full weight of 485 grains with a home made lube of beeswax,mutton tallow and Crisco. The 451112 hasn't been
made for years and was really for 44-77 or 44-90 Remington Special but the current 451114 is still available and
should work well at the Friendship 500 yard range. It weighs 450 grains and if a GG design.
Bob Roller
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I think I have leading in the barrel. I shot 15 rounds and had no loading issues. Bullets went down from start to finish just perfect. I did switch boxes of bullets, but I have checked the size and they are sized correctly. They go down the bore really hard, then no issues close to the bottom.
I bought some cooper cleaning pads, run them up and down the bore, no luck. Also got some bore scuber, no luck. Run tight patches up and down, still got sticky tight spots.
Have spent several hours messing with this thing and starting to get frustrated.
It shot great, but this bore issue is not right.
Fleener
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I think, like TOF, that you are trying to guild a lily.
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Dont get me wrong, I love the accuracy.
After letting the barrel soak over night with the bore cleaner, a few tight patches later, the bore is almost back to where it was and should be. The bullets will load with just a little more than the weight of the range rod. Still a couple of tight areas but nothing like I had yesterday.
Yesterday after it leaded up I would have to put 25lbs or so of pressure to get the bullet down the barrel.
I think I will shoot the PP bullets next week. Might help finish cleaning out the lead and perhaps help seal the barrel.
Fleener
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Dont get me wrong, I love the accuracy.
After letting the barrel soak over night with the bore cleaner, a few tight patches later, the bore is almost back to where it was and should be. The bullets will load with just a little more than the weight of the range rod. Still a couple of tight areas but nothing like I had yesterday.
Yesterday after it leaded up I would have to put 25lbs or so of pressure to get the bullet down the barrel.
I think I will shoot the PP bullets next week. Might help finish cleaning out the lead and perhaps help seal the barrel.
Fleener
Art,
I had trouble with my 451 leading at the breech and accuracy vanished. This was on the one I built
using a Green Mountain blank,not the original AH Whitworth. I removed the breech plug and used a
12 gauge wire brush to get rid of the lead. I think lead at any place in the bore could wreck a PP
bullet.
Bob Roller
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Hmmmm. Let me get this straight. You took one of Ernie's barrels and started shooting it without following his recommended break-in procedure and then wonder why you're having problems with leading.
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I cant remember what the procedure called for.
I did shoot one bullet, and then 2 patches after each.
One time while shooting at Lodi, I talked to Erin about ML barrels leading. He was of the opinion that it should never be an issue since you wipe between each shot.
Fleener
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I cant remember what the procedure called for.
10 shots
Coat bullets with JB Bore Paste
Fire one. Allow barrel to cool.
Clean bore thoroughly.
Repeat with other 9 bullets.
I watched Mike Rock do one of his barrels. After boring and reaming, he poured a lead lap and polished the bore. Then put it back on the machine and rifled it. He made his own precision cutters, but I think Ernie sent his out. Mike showed me how he ground them and then checked them under an optical comparator until they were perfect.
Anyway, near the end of a run, a cutter will degrade and start leaving scratches in the grooves. If you start using one of these barrels without breaking it in, lead will slough off and start to build up until you get substantial leading. By starting with GG bullets, this is probably what happened. Had you started with PP, it probably would have polished the grooves. I suggest you do the break-in using PP bullets and JB paste if you have any.
I talked to Erin about ML barrels leading. He was of the opinion that it should never be an issue since you wipe between each shot.
Wiping doesn't remove lead deposits that have been burnished into the bore. Maybe he assumed you had already broken in your bore. Sometimes even brushing doesn't remove it. You have to use one of the chemicals that will get underneath it and loosen it enough to scrub out.
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I might have some of the JB paste.
Will look
I almost stopped in to see Mike Rock a few weeks ago. I was in that part of WI, but time was an issue for me.
He used to pop his head up every so often and send me an email. Have not heard from him for a while.
Fleener
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Fleener - running a VERY tight doubled Flannelette cotton patch over a jag, smeared with JB, Flitz or AutoSol and scrubbing the bore with that, stopping about 2" back from the muzzle every stroke (at least 30, then replenish the paste), will have a similar, but lesser effect than fire lapping, however, fire lapping also has the tendency towards enlarging the breech area "some" - at least with bullets which will obturate. This is usually not a negative thing.
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Daryl
thanks that make sense and will give that a try.
Fleener