AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Kingsburyarms on August 19, 2016, 09:47:16 PM
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Jim found one of those "Curly" Trees for me - .40, Iron Nitrate with a splash of thinned down Laurel Mountain Maple honey/Lancaster stain mix. 10 coats hand rubbed oil, and my son wanted it in the bright!!!! Hunters moon silver (blank) courtesy of David Price, then I engraved it with an old fashioned "face" from a Grimm fairy tail book image my son always liked... Thanks again Jim - Wonderful kit!!! -
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I think we are going to have another drought - not just water this time, but some Grey fuzzy little critters... My son thinks so...
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That is a very beautiful piece of wood. Hope the one Jim picks for me is like that.
Also your son is a very fortunate boy to own that beautiful rifle...Chuck P.
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WOW!! Beautiful pice of artwork and you have one lucky son! I know he's proud of this one!!
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Wow :o You did big
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Gorgeous rifle. I like it a lot. The finish really shows off the crazy grain.
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Jon,
I am very pleased that you chose to put that little silver moon that I gave you on
your sons rifle. Looking forward to shooting it with your son next weekend.
David Price
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Yikes that looks good!
I've been going back and forth about what to do with mine when it arrives, and after seeing your pictures "in the white" looks pretty darn good.
I just got my banana patch box (iron/steel) from TOTW today in anticipation. I'm also thinking about a poured pewter nose cap with chevrons. Beyond that, little or no more embellishment.
Have to say it again, that rifle looks great!
Norm
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Norm - you will love making this kit - I went (on this one) a little north of Mountain into the "Lancaster" realm, but that's what my client wanted... :)
It opens up many variations - looking forward to your build,
Jon
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no fair, you have already gotten 2 of Jim's kits and I am still waiting for mine :)
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That is a handsome rifle. Some one is going to be very happy.
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no fair, you have already gotten 2 of Jim's kits and I am still waiting for mine :)
I was gonna say the same thing!
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Better than NICE! - and what a lovely bit of flame through the wrist!
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That some pretty wood there,nicely done
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no fair, you have already gotten 2 of Jim's kits and I am still waiting for mine :)
I was gonna say the same thing!
Just for fun, I checked The date on my Receipt (order for two) and it was January 13th. Jim is doing his very best to put quality as well as quantity, and it's well worth the wait - I'm on my 6th month waiting for new license plates!!!!! :) -
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beautiful rifle and fine work indeed. i also prefer that all the iron/steel be left in-the-white, as it should be. 8)
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WOW! That's all I can say. Great looking rifle.
Capt. David
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What else can be said that has not already been said -- That is a FINE looking rifle and top quality workmanship too boot - Nicely Done ;)!
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Is that the regular maple stock that comes with it or is that the fancy upgrade? That thing is gorgeous!
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That is the "Upgrade" 8)
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Those kits are addictive aren't they.i would still like to see one in cherry and ash.
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Looks excellent. I have been looking at the same JK kits too. Just too busy summer and shooting and all right now.
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Beautiful wood! She sure turned out nice. That toe plate looks familiar too! ;)
It was fun handling a few if the finished guns Jim had at his booth at the CLA this weekend. I sure wish he would consider selling those trigger sets separately. They are simply beautiful.
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WOW...Beautiful, absolutely beautiful! Anything else I could come up with has already been said.
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Dear Jon, as it happens I am available for immediate adoption. I'm house trained, don't eat much, can mow lawns, take out trash,etc. I would like mine in .36 if you don't mind. Oh yeh, a hunters star on cheek piece would be nice.
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Cool - I can't even get MY kids to mow the lawn - I'm sure we can work something out...
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Cool - I can't even get MY kids to mow the lawn - I'm sure we can work something out...
Interesting, I can see a wonderful example of a picture-perfect incentive right off the bat - mow the law EVERY time it needs it or lose the rifle.
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Thanks Dad, can I call you Dad? By the way, you said you rubbed 10 coats of oil on the stock. It's beautiful, but not as shiny as I would expect for 10 coats. What kind did you use? You did an outstanding job. It's still hard to believe that rifle and others shown off came from a kit!
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That rifle should get you way more than the lawn mowed ;)
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Thanks Dad, can I call you Dad? By the way, you said you rubbed 10 coats of oil on the stock. It's beautiful, but not as shiny as I would expect for 10 coats. What kind did you use? You did an outstanding job. It's still hard to believe that rifle and others shown off came from a kit!
I break down the coats with Burlap - and hand rub them in until they start to dry - IMO - On any wood with pronounced grain, the deeper the clear coat, the better the reflection and the grain results. The 10 coats with breaking them down probably equal 3-4 regular coats, yet every scratch, edge, grain and (with Walnut) pinhole is filled in depth.
Bring it up to a finish, and take it down almost to the wood, then wait a few days (a week if needed) and do it again. dry to the touch and little or no smell for the next coat. small sections, using surgical gloves, rub it in until the friction warmth starts to harden the coating. a few days later, take it down with some Burlap, Wash, rinse, repeat.
I actually use Minwax Antique wood oil for my finishes, I can throttle the luster from dull to gloss and it's HARD stuff when fully dried. I can't say for any other brand or home made formula (and have no bias), but I have been using this for 30 years or so, so I am a believer. Walnut takes a different approach, as the first two coats get put on by 600 grit sandpaper - yes - the finish is applied by wet and dry sandpaper, the micro flakes of wood that are created by the "sanding" fill the end grain of the Walnut and make a glass smooth surface. (you saw that on my .36) and my other non Flintlock projects that also have Walnut stocks.
I was lucky with the Iron Nitrate, First time and pretty nervous - After I applied it, It looked like a piece of driftwood when it dried, I was kind of shocked, but I have a Hobby heat gun (used to shrink plastic covering for airplanes) and I started to heat it and it started to turn Brown - it does need heat, lots of it - and I thought almost too much, but it changes like a 1970's mood ring... :) - -
When that is done, it's still brown muddy, sand with 300 then 600 dry paper, and wet the stock with water and you will be amazed - the more you sand, the sharper the dark curl gets.. I sanded 4-5 times on this rifle, stained it with thinned stain, sanded with 1000 grit and then applied the finish. It's cool that the curl flows with the angle the sun hits it...Must be the iron Nitrate..
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Exceptional piece of wood aside, you did yourself proud with that finnish. It's amazing what talent and patience can turn a chunk of wood into. Let's hope it shoots as good as it looks.
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I am not a fan of brown furniture, I was thinking of other options, I really liked the grey color you did the other rifle in and tried to replicate it without much success. I had not thought of leaving it in the white, that I can do easily. Still would prefer some protection like the grey but I was not happy with the finish I got the first time I tried. I know, I know. if at first you don't succeed, try try again. But leaving it in the white looks really good.
Terrified to try a little inlay too but I think I will
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VERY nice. Did you thin the Minwax antique oil before applying it?
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I'm considering fire blueing the barrel and furniture on mine. Lock to be left in the white.
I have a traditions pistol barrel that I will use as my practice barrel for fire blueing first. Don't really care if the pistol barrel turns out badly. It will be my practice barrel for several tasks, such as engraving my name, inletting a silver nameplate, and maybe some other things like coning and a maker's stamp.
I have to admit though, Kingsburyarms gun in the white looks really nice and might tempt me to do the same.
Cheers,
Norm
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VERY nice. Did you thin the Minwax antique oil before applying it?
no - right out of the can, I just put on surgical gloves and hand rub the oil into the wood, If left on too thick, it will be more shiny, If you rub it in, it will start to dull down, just focus on small areas then move on to the next area - the oil blends well, and make sure it's dry before you start the second coat - as it will "melt" the first coat if it's not set. If I put it on too heavy, I can always wipe it down with a clean lint free rag (old T shirt) or towel when it is still wet to kill the "gloss".
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Kingsburyarms,
You did a fantastic job on this rifle! My wife is going to try and get me one of Jim's kits for Christmas and we were wondering what level of wood did you order for this rifle. I love the wood and you did a fantastic job on finishing it. Thanks for sharing and good luck. Keep it up.
elkhorne
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Thank you!!! - - I ordered the .40 Caliber Kit and selected "Extra Fancy Maple" when I was choosing options. It was an upgrade and had an additional cost. (there are three choices of Maple in the "shopping cart") and this is what Jim sent.
I know every piece is different and you never really know how it will eventually look - but if it comes from Jim, it will be of very high quality. The cool part about Jim is you can always give him a call and discuss what you want, (Light curl, Crazy curl etc...) his direct number is on his website and he is one of the most kind and thoughtful gentlemen to talk to. Katherine is also a wonderful person to chat with, very qualified and brilliant on the wood, parts and finishes, and she can also help out if you want something particular, or have a question.
I actually called him about how he applies the Iron Nitrate, and just like a fireside chat, he walked me through how he does it, and you see the results above - Maybe you can even ask him to add a scrap piece of wood to practice on the finish...
Jon
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Real nice work. Those sure are nice slim rifles.
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I was noticing that profile also!! Really looking forward to getting my first. Supposed to arrive on Saturday!!!
Doc
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That is one spectacular rifle-gun. Thanks for sharing....Mick
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Went up to northern NH last weekend and Met David Price and family for a little shooting. With my son - this was his first chance to fire a flintlock. Fun had by all - David hit a PERFECT bullseye at 25 yards on his second shot with this rifle - Did a little tuning to the lock (Frizzen spring was a little tight) but a fine shooter.
These rifles are well built, well manufactured and accurate. Now both my sons have a "legacy" they can keep and hand down -
Back to my 100 other projects! - Thank you again Jim and David.
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So if I'm reading this thread correctly the metal is cleaned up and not treated at all? Do you put a little oil of some sort or just allow it to "naturally age"? How do you keep it from getting rust spots or worse?
Longone
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Kingsbury,
Mine should get shipped out tomorrow or so.
Don't know how much work I'll be able to do on it for the next while. We have visitors here for a the next 4 weeks and I've just agreed to build a playhouse for my daughter (dummy!) . Maybe this will motivate me to get up early for once!
Doc,
I'd like to see pictures of yours when you can. Hope you are having fun with it!
I'm quite interested to see the Chamber's lock as well. I want to compare the mainspring tension to my other Chamber's lock. I'm still working on that kit, and I had to buy a replacement mainspring since I broke the original one (dummy, again...). Seems to me that the replacement is very strong. I apologize if this has strayed massively off topic.
Anyway, banana patchbox for the Kibler kit is here, and I have plenty of pewter for the nose cap. That will be it for embellishment.
Cheers,
Norm
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So if I'm reading this thread correctly the metal is cleaned up and not treated at all? Do you put a little oil of some sort or just allow it to "naturally age"? How do you keep it from getting rust spots or worse?
Longone
Longone,
The metal is in the bright (no finish except draw filed and slightly polished). Now - there is a coating on the metal, and it will not rust, darken or corrode. the lock, trigger guard, but plate and barrel are all the same way.
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Mine is being shipped today. It's been a really great day. I got permission to hunt coyotes on a farm I had been campaigning to hunt. I'm hopeful it will lead to turkeys and deer. I think it's likely.
Also the news from Katherine really made my day. Then there's this thread with all the specific Kibler info, knowledge and life is very good.
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As long as it's not a Turkey farm, you should be OK - PLEASE make a build thread with your rifle, steal this one if you want (by just continuing it) and give updates - There are a few builders of this rifle on the forums now, and a ton of help and advice if you need it -
Yes, Katherine does rock... They make a Great team.
Jon
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As long as it's not a Turkey farm, you should be OK - PLEASE make a build thread with your rifle, steal this one if you want (by just continuing it) and give updates - There are a few builders of this rifle on the forums now, and a ton of help and advice if you need it -
Yes, Katherine does rock... They make a Great team.
Jon
Well, it's more of a ranch, than a farm. He raises cattle and rides a horse to roam the fences. The turkeys are wild. Dumb, but wild.
I will make an effort to show my progress. Be forewarned, I'm the world's worst photographer. And advice will be sought. Much, well all, of the reason I had to have the kit, was it's so much closer to finished than the others and it's a .45.
The ones showcased here are beauts.
Katherine and Jim seem like very fine people.
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The metal is in the bright (no finish except draw filed and slightly polished). Now - there is a coating on the metal, and it will not rust, darken or corrode. the lock, trigger guard, but plate and barrel are all the same way.
I am confused, you say the metal is in the bright with no finish but then say there is a coating on the metal, what is the coating. I was thinking of just polish and wax to keep mine from rusting, of course light coat of oil over the wax too.
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I'll PM you
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Do we need to designate this thread as the "Kibler build thread", or would it be better not to hijack this and start a new open thread for new builds and pictures???
Doc
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Just opened mine up a few minutes ago. Yikes! that is nice.
I took just a few minutes marveling at the wooden box and how everything is laid out. Incredible.
Beautiful piece of curly maple (thanks Katherine!)
I've got a few free hours, so I'll at least get the barrel in the stock to stabilize it.
Wonderful work Jim and Katherine!
Cheers,
Norm
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When drilling the trigger plate, can that be done in the stock following the tang holes or will that mess up the holes in the stock? My concern is getting the correct angle on the threaded holes in the plate.
Longone
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Thanks everyone.
As to drilling and tapping the trigger plate, I would suggest the following:
Fit the tang and triggers. Clamp the trigger plate in the inlet. With a drill bit that just passes through the pre-drilled stock hole, spot the trigger plate hole location. Switch to a number 29 drill and extend the hole through the plate. With the plate still in the stock, tap the previously drilled hole by inserting the tap from the top of the stock. This will align everything properly. If you have anymore questions about this process, just let me know.
Thanks again,
Jim
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Kingsbury, Doc,
I did get a bit of work done on my Kibler kit. It's .36 Cal and curly Maple. Barrel, under lugs, trigger plate, butt plate, trigger-guard and lock are all in and pinned, drilled and tapped. I have not yet checked for full and free movement of the lock internals. Right now, just the tumbler, cock and frizzen are on the lock.
I still need to get the lock parts in and check/work on the double set triggers, inlet the ramrod pipes, and install the sights and touch hole liner.
I have to say, everything has gone together like a dream. I never touched the tang inlet with a chisel. Essentially, I filed off the roughness on the sides of the tang, and gave the rear tang screw portion a bit more draft, and it was in. I filed a bit off the front of the trigger plate, and then only had to scrape the mortise to get it in nice and tight. First time I chiseled wood was on the trigger guard, just a small amount, mostly scraping. Lock mortise the same. Only the tiniest amount of chiseling around the tail, and then scraping. Wonderful. Now I know what a good inlet looks like!!
The butt plate took less than about 10 minutes of filing the end grain, and done. However, my inability to drill on-center showed up again, and my first two butt plate holes were off and drove large gaps when I mounted the butt plate. As a result of this known weakness on my part with butt plates, I already had enough dowels of the appropriate size to fill the holes! I filled those two holes, drilled again and it is much better. Good wood to metal fit, but still slightly off center. Probably not noticeable after I file and sand, but I might just do it again since I will always know it is not as good as it could be. No fault of the kit, just me.
Pictures in a bit.
Cheers,
Norm
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Chowmi,
Thanks for the progress update. It's good to hear how everything works out and any potential problems or pitfalls. A couple notes:
If a touch of wood needs removed from the trigger plate inlet, it's probably best to remove it from the tail end. That is, insert the end nearest the barrel breech first and then trim the other end to fit. It won't make too much difference, but may affect the trigger function a tiny bit. I set each set of triggers to match each lock so shifting forward or backwards might affect the function ever so slightly.
As to the buttplate, I will give the holes some thought. I had been drilling the holes in the wood to accept the buttplate screws, but recently stopped. Varying degrees of part shrinkage convinced me it might be best to allow the assembler to drill the holes. I understand how it can be tricky to get the holes centered, though. I have been using a drill bit which centers on the countersunk buttplate holes recently. These are sold for centering wood holes when installing hinges on boxes and such. This works pretty well if you have someone help align the drill. I may start including one of these in the kit. We'll see...
Glad everything is going well. Keep us posted of the progress.
Kingsbury,
Your finish job on that wood looks fantastic!
Thanks a bunch everyone.
Jim
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Jim,
thanks for the point out on the trigger plate. I may have moved it ever so slightly forward. I'll see how it works out when I get some more time.
The problem with the butt plate was entirely mine. I've had trouble with it in the past, and so it is good practice for me. I have a drill centering jig, but did not use it. I had used it on a previous rifle with poor success (it's probably because it was an el-cheapo version). The last two butt plates I had done worked well by center punching by eye and then drilling on the center punch.
I'll have another look at it and will probably try again. I don't mind filling the holes and doing it again, I need the practice!
Forward two ramrod pipes are in, and the rear pipe will go in tonight. I'm enjoying this.
cheers,
Norm
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Fun kit - lot's of options and designs - Jim, you should be proud...
Jon
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Fun kit - lot's of options and designs - Jim, you should be proud...
Jon
Absolutely right.
Also, triggers work great. No issue with the trigger plate placement. Lock sparks like mad!
Norm
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Kingsbury, Why the secret on the metal coating? Lindseed oil? I am tossed between antiqueing or in the white. Your rifle looks amazing! I got my kit a few months ago and put it together in two easy days except for the ramrod pipes. It's been sitting since. I'm not experienced with any of the finishes for metal as this is my first build. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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A thought on centering the holes. If you have a brad point bit set, use the one that just fits in the butt plate and drill just with the brad point to make a starter hole.
Doc
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Doc,
good point. I'll admit, I had to google "brad point bits"... Ha ha.
Norm
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Kingsbury, Why the secret on the metal coating? Lindseed oil? I am tossed between antiqueing or in the white. Your rifle looks amazing! I got my kit a few months ago and put it together in two easy days except for the ramrod pipes. It's been sitting since. I'm not experienced with any of the finishes for metal as this is my first build. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Out of respect for the traditional builders on this site...... - I use modern tools, materials and coatings to complete my contemporary firearms. It was brought to my attention in another thread when I used a more modern gunstock as a wood finishing example, that it was not in the spirit of this forum. I have the utmost respect and understanding why, and what I am learning of the ways these were built a few hundred years ago. So, for example, if I were go on about clear polymer heat coatings and molecular metal bonding, it would not be in the spirit of this audience/forum. Happy to have a call, a chat over a beer or a PM for additional info, but I respect the concept of traditional building and classic use of traditional methods.
BTW, http://www.nyalic.com/Blacksmiths-Ironwork_c_55.html is only one example.
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Well-stated, thank you. ;)
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Wow! All I can say is wow! Everything is superior. My experience is limited at best. But the lock is stunning, the stock is perfection, everything looks perfect and an inventory shows all the parts present and accounted for. The crate is a superior effort at shipping and shows great care.
I hope I can do it justice.
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I've been out of the country for a few days for work, but got back to it today.
I got the butt-plate sorted out so it is nicely centered. Good.
I chiseled away at the wood around the muzzle so I could pour a pewter nose-cap. I'm going for a chevron type design. That all worked out nicely. Good
I poured the pewter. I was reasonably confident in this, as I have done it before. (oops) First attempt, didn't fill all the areas I needed it to. Poured again, with generous room for it to flow. Still didn't work. Not good.
Now I have a nice blob of pewter on the nose that will all have to come off. I'll have to spend some time filing etc, to get it off and try again. if any of the piercings are damaged underneath the pewter, I will just go for a plain pewter nose cap. If worse comes to worse, then I'll do an iron/steel nose cap.
Despite the mishap, I'm still enjoying this build.
cheers,
Norm
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A very beautiful rifle! Could you please go into more detail on the stain mix. I really like the color. Thank you.
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Iron Nitrate application as per Jim's instruction, heated and let dry overnight. Sanded it down to a sharp curl. The stain is a mixture of two Laurel Mountain Forge colors, thinned down 50%. I used a Mason jar and filled it about 25% with Denatured Alcohol, then added about 1 oz of Laurel Mountain Honey Maple color, mixed it in (Thinned it). Applied the thinned stain to the rifle with a foam brush, pretty heavy, and let dry for 4 hours, I then added about a tablespoon of Laurel Mountain Lancaster Maple to the Mason jar mix (it really gets darker) and applied (with a foam brush) to the rifle and let dry. Sanded through most of the "darker" honey/Lancaster color, and this is what it came out as. You can see on the edges of the darker curl a slight "Lancaster red" tint, but mostly the Honey Maple. all wood takes on different hints of color, but this is what worked for me on this stock.
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Thank you very much.
Horseman.
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I finally got some more work done on my .36 Kibler SMR. I've been away for work for a bit, and then came down with a cold that set me back a few days.
4th try lucky on the pewter nose cap. I ended up trying to patch a small area, but my melt was too hot and it also melted some of the good parts. Eventually got the whole thing off and did it again. Mostly successful. There is a spot along the edge of the RR groove that didn't get any pewter. I may just live with it.
I have not filed it all down yet, as I have run out of time and energy for the day. (still not quite back from the cold).
Once I file and sand down the pewter, I will sand the stock in preparation for staining.
Cheers,
Norm