AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Shop Made Tools => Topic started by: lew wetzel on April 03, 2009, 03:54:59 PM
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i am starting a new project this week as i am building a blacksmith forge...my parents have one but they live an hour south of me and i cant always get down to use it....so,i will build my own..i work at a foundry and have got to know the old fella that re-lines our ladles using fire-brick and refractor pretty well..he is from kentucky and we always have alot to talk about when i am over in his area repairing his crane or putting new gears in a ladle or welding something for him.he spoke with our superintendant and he said i could have some of the cut-offs of firebrick and some refractor to build my forge...
the forge will be 26in. square and 6in deep.1/4in steel plate...the firebick i will be using is 4in by 6in..1in thick...and i will cover with refractor..i am building the frame this weekend and have the plate and pipe needed for the cleanout and air inlet...what i need is a blower...i would like a hand cranked like my parents...but i do have a small electric motor and squirrel cage that i could use till i find something more traditional..will post pics as i get underway...
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I have two of them & may sell one of them. They are Lancaster #40 blowers with stands. One has 1/2 tooth broken in a gear & the other one has a fill tooth broken in a gear. But I think they could be repaired if a feller wanted to wire weld or braze a tooth up. What is strange is they don't slip or bind with that tooth damage, they still work fine.
Holler at me if this is of interest. I don't know what the value of them are, maybe someone else on here can tell us.
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pm sent...
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I can't get the PM thing to work. I have replied twice & when I go to the message out there is nothing there.
Just email me at birddogsix@yahoo.com & put Forge in the subject line so it doesn't get spammed.
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Lew, please keep us up to date on this project. I have been wanting to do the same thing. Some pics would be great. thanks
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Centaur Forge: http://www.centaurforge.com/Coal-Forges/products/160/
They have all the stuff you need for blacksmithing/forging from refractory to coal to fluxes to hammers to swageblocks to crucibles. Get the paper catalog, the online site is weak. And books and videos......
great potty reading too.
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Lew,
Just an open forge or are you gonna rig a hood/ partial hood system?
My forge is an open brake drum version, using a crank blower. Other than the pot being a lil small for some jobs,, it serves for what lil bit I normally do. Big enough anyway, to drive my city girl wife, just a bit Crazy! ;D OF course, we do live it a fairly big suburb? ::) I think "most" the neighbors are generally amused by my antics.
Respect Always
Metalshaper
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metalshaper,i will make a hood for it as i will have it under a partition off my barn so i can forge on rainy days or when the snows flying...i am keeping this one small as i i want to do is some gun parts and some knives,maybe a hawk or two...
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I am hoping to get a forge up and running this spring as well, so this is a very interesting thread!
Lew, it sounds like you have a good idea of what you are doing! Be very interested in seeing pics. I'll likely make do with a brake drum forge for now, though I'd like a better setup in the future.
Dave
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i googled "building a blacksmith forge" and got some very good info on all types of forges to build....using an old stainless steel sink insert with the double sinks...one side for quenching water and line the other side with bricks and refactory....build a stand and viola,you have a forge....they even showed how to buiuld one out of 2by4's and plywood,fill with dirt and stones cover with cement...dont think i would want to use that one myself but someone might ...
and of course the brake drum forge and tire rim forge...lots of options for the do-it yourself type of guy...
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Lew
The inventiveness of forge builders seems inexaustable! In Nevada, I learned about brake drum forges. Up here in Northern Wis, the standard seems to be cutting the top off a good sized portable propane tank, and using that as the forge base. That gives you the threads you need for the blower tube as well.
I think one of the great things about home blacksmithing is that tendency to use whatever is at hand to build whatever you need at the moment.
Dave
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ok,i got the frame work all welded up and got the refractory put in and fired....decided to not use the fire bricks...changed my design!!!after i fire it for a while with the propane i will build a fire with wood in it and keep it going all day so the refractory gets super hard.....
(https://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/stormcatcher_2007/forge001.jpg)
(https://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/stormcatcher_2007/forge002.jpg)
(https://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/stormcatcher_2007/forge003.jpg)
(https://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/stormcatcher_2007/forge004.jpg)
(https://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/stormcatcher_2007/forge008.jpg)
(https://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/stormcatcher_2007/forge011.jpg)
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Thanks for the pics. That gives me some ideas. Does the refractory get mixed kind of like morter or is it more like drywall mud in a bucket, I am talking about consistency only here?
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it is thick right out of the bucket...wear gloves cause it is full of silica and ACID...almost like puddy...i have had a wood fire going in it for the last couple hours and i let it burn out and man is that stuff hard....now to let it cool and make up the blower attachment and get all that assembled..will be more pics to come...
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heres a couple pics of what it looks like after the wood fire hardened the refractory completely...
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa281%2Fstormcatcher_2007%2Fforge013.jpg&hash=7f6ffa3cc65843d390f6a6e0e072160df431663a)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa281%2Fstormcatcher_2007%2Fforge012.jpg&hash=d86d9803b93e9c5c09ebeca8ba0b0970aba5feab)
you only have to use propane to harden the top of the refactory..enough to suppert a fire made of wood...i walked my very large yard today and picked up sticks and branchs that had fallen all winter and kept my fire going and cleaned up my yard...
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Lew, what did you use for refractory and where did you purchase it? Thanks, Paul
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The ability to make your own with what you have is a great hing indeed.
A couple years back a friend wanted a forge for a small project and had some pieces of scrap laying around that he was going to throw away. He had an old cast iron bench stand that was height adjustable. (What it was originally from is unknown) Also on hand was a old rim from his Peterbuilt, a steel plate, an old exhaust Y-pipe from his junked out chevy pickup, a tin can he could hang on the bottom for a cleanout, a roll of duct tape to connect his wifes new hairdryer.(Dont laugh--it worked fine for what he wanted to forge out) His wife stopped whining about her new hairdryer when he pointed out his antique highback cowboy bathtub which she had decided would make a nice planter if it had a better drainage set up in it while he was out on the road. The total time involved in this build was about a half an hour.
Todd
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In my expierence refractory isn't really necessary. Good old creek bank clay works real well. Its free and it does not hurt the skin while your schmearing it on. BJH
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i work for a foundry ,we pour steel castings for g.e..and caterpiller...the old man that relines the ladles gave me a half bucket...
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have you done any blacksmithing in the forge yet?I would like to know how it works. good luck
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no not yet....will as soon as a good day appears that is hot and sunny and i happen to have nothing else to do....am really looking forward to it...have some buttplate blanks cut out and want to start bending them up.....
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Hi Lew,
I just bought a forge on e-bay last night. Where did you get your
refractory mix from? I tried Centaur Forge's web-site and couldn't find it.
Is this something I can find locally like Lowes or Home Depot, or do I have
to order it?
Olsplntr
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Hi Lew,
I just bought a forge on e-bay last night. Where did you get your
refractory mix from? I tried Centaur Forge's web-site and couldn't find it.
Is this something I can find locally like Lowes or Home Depot, or do I have
to order it?
Olsplntr
refractory.elliscustomknifeworks.com. Darren can hook you up with anything from plain old Satanite to bubble alumina.
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I have an old mud forge that is made out of eight inch steel, sides and bottom.The forge is lined with clay and it works just fine.The builder of this forge didn't put a door or cinder breaker in the tuyer so its difficult to clean.The builder welded up the same eight inch metal into square duct work to feed the air from the root blower into the tuyer.A forge like this would be very simple to construct out of scrap.
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McMaster Carr sells various types of refractory cement that I have used to make casting furnaces.
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If you don't have a ready source of refractory matierial, good old crick bamk clay works just fine. Best of all it's free for the diggin. Just dig some , screen it to get the biggist pebbles. Mix with water till you get a nice stiff mud pie. Spread it as you need it. My first forge lasted 5 years untill I sold it due to my asthma. The lining was still fime. BJH
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If you want to build a simple forge then make a side draught forge with a champion blower. Mine is based on an 1/8 in 24in square plate with a 4 in high wall fore and aft and 6-7 in left and right, The air is from the left and I use a heavy freight wagon wheel bearing from an old hub. A 3 inch stove pipe fits right in. The pan is nailed with common nails to a pine table.
The tools that you need to buy to start a forge are few and simple. An anvil, a fire, a blower, a leg vice, a slack tub, coal, a cross pein, and a ball pein- 32 oz and 32 oz. for steel you will need 1 in square or larger for hardies and swages. 1/2 square for making tong jaws, 3/8 round or square for reins. 1'4 round , 1/4 x 1/2, 3/4, 1 and 1/2 x 1 are good starters for steel. Buy 20 foot lengths for best prices. Get a heavy truck coil spring for punches etc, A few chisels, a centre punch, files and a box of borax will round up your tool kit. When thst is no longer enough get a post drill and a swage block and a copy of bealer's book Practical Blacksmithing.
Anything that can be done quicker with a welder can be done cheaper with a forge and you will learn something of value. If you want a photo of my 200 dollar set up, let me know.
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danny , sure we want pics ;D
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when i first got started we used a Bar -B-Q grill filled with mud couple peices of pipe hair dryer worked great to start out with now I have a rivett forge with a hand pump blower works ok going to get a crank blower one of theys day they work a lot better
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Hi gents, new member here. Blacksmithing and forging have been a focus for several years now. During this time I have built several forges. What I have learned is...If you want to build one, first consider your needs, as in how big of a piece of metal do you want to heat, also what do you plan to use for fuel. Propane is probably the most common fuel nowadays, easy to get, relatively cheap, and burned with air provides a flame hot enough to weld. Coal/ coke is great, hotter than propane, less scaling and more accuracy of heating. Charcoal is also used to a certain extent, less carbon loss in the fire with charcoal than others (specially propane). Plans and info are readily available on the blacksmithing sites such as
http://www.iforgeiron.com/ or http://www.metalartistforum.com/forum/index.php
A couple years ago I had a need for a small portable forge, and came up with this. Works great for heating ends and small parts. Takes very little time to warm up and lets me use some of my antique tools. I wouldnt reccomend this to everyone as older torches DO have their problems, But this can be accomplished with more modern butane/propane torch too. just fyi.... Kerry
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi50.tinypic.com%2F2rxy4d4.jpg&hash=d74a3077ef07917ffbdddabcf4db5c04e2fa2d10)
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That's cool! I've accumulated a few of those old gasoline torches, but have been afraid to try firing one up. Any tips or references on how to make one of those work?
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RobertS hello, the first bit of advice would be not to do it with a gasoline torch, but use a small bottled gas type. But at your own risk with a gas torch, ...check this guys site out http://www.blotorches.com/ He covers most of the dos and donts as well as lots of information on brands/types etc.. hope this helps.. Kerry
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Thanks so much for the link!
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built my forge from an old cast iron kitchen sink, a 3" galvanized pipe T, water heater vent pipe and a Champion crank blower. Main branch of the T goes to the blower. Made an ash dump on one end of the T and attached the tuyere grate to the other end. Have used it for 5 years now, make all my buttplates, triggerguards and other itmes with no problem. Main cost was the blower. Oh, built a large box out of cinder blocks and stone to sit the sink on. Would take pics but the camera isn't working right now. Most folks on this board are far more handy and ingenious than I am so I figure y'all could build about anything you want in the way of a forge. I'm just glad I can make my gun hardware with it.