AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: bones92 on March 20, 2017, 07:17:11 AM
-
I have tried this a few times, and each time I have been able to clean a bore in less than 5 minutes. I spray a good bit of starter fluid down the barrel, push it down with a patched jag quickly to blow fouling out of the vent hole. Then keep using patches soaked in it, alternating with dry patches. I finish by drying the bore with several dry patches, then lube with an oil-soaked patch.
Bottom line... after shooting a .40 flintlock all afternoon, I was able to clean it in about 5 minutes. After a few hours, I just ran a clean dry patch down and it came out white.
I also took the lock off and sprayed it with starter fluid, wiped it down, and lubed with a suitable oil (Ballistol, Lehigh, etc).
Just thought I'd share this with you all, as it seems to be a very effective alternative. I know... everyone has their method they like, but I'm just throwing this out there, for those who may want an easy alternative to running water down the bore.
-
Starting fluid is ether which is an explosive gas. Could burn the whole shop down. I'll pass on that.
-
For that matter, black powder is an explosive.
I figured most people had a can of starting fluid around, for when a mower or other small engine needs coaxing.
-
If water isn't good enough, a couple patches soaked with windsheild washer fluid will do the job quickly. Only takes me about 5 min.to clean my rifle with these, so don't see the need for anything else.
-
I have tried this a few times, and each time I have been able to clean a bore in less than 5 minutes. I spray a good bit of starter fluid down the barrel, push it down with a patched jag quickly to blow fouling out of the vent hole. Then keep using patches soaked in it, alternating with dry patches. I finish by drying the bore with several dry patches, then lube with an oil-soaked patch.
Bottom line... after shooting a .40 flintlock all afternoon, I was able to clean it in about 5 minutes. After a few hours, I just ran a clean dry patch down and it came out white.
I also took the lock off and sprayed it with starter fluid, wiped it down, and lubed with a suitable oil (Ballistol, Lehigh, etc).
Just thought I'd share this with you all, as it seems to be a very effective alternative. I know... everyone has their method they like, but I'm just throwing this out there, for those who may want an easy alternative to running water down the bore.
Thanks for the cleaning tip. Semper Fi.
-
Just a cautionary word re: the comment that black powder is an " explosive " etc....all that is true, however; gasoline is also an explosive, and moreover it is volatile . "Starter fluid" works as an assist for gasoline because it is even more volatile. A spark across the room won't set off black powder, but could be catastrophic when using starter fluid to clean any thing.
-
Water, water, water, water, water, water,water,water,water. So, what part of this is unclear to you?
Hungry Horse
-
Safety first. starting fluid is an excellent degreaser and have used it with no problems however as pointed out it is dangerous. HH as to water I find WW fluid superior at least in my mind.
-
Yes, I understand. I am not advocating pouring it down the barrel.
I find just spraying some onto cleaning patches does the trick. I may squirt some down the bore first (i.e., about 1 or 2 seconds of spray). And this is only done in the garage with plenty of ventilation. Not much different than using bore solvent (actually, I may try using aerosol bore solvent, as it likely does the same thing). Common sense applies, in any case.
I understand... warm water works great, too. I clean that way when I have time. But sometimes I have very little time to do an initial cleaning after a range trip, and I have found that this works, and it works very well.
Anyway, I'm just throwing it out there. Not looking to challenge anyone's modus operandi. Just thought I'd share it.
-
If water isn't good enough, a couple patches soaked with windsheild washer fluid will do the job quickly. Only takes me about 5 min.to clean my rifle with these, so don't see the need for anything else.
Actually, that is an option I would like to try. If it works just as well, I will ditch the starter fluid and use WW fluid instead.
Do you use a water-soaked patch to dissolve and remove any WW fluid residue?
-
If you use the water soaked patch to start with, you can forget the other junk. Really, this is mind numbingly simple.
Plug the touch hole with a round toothpick.
Fill the bore with cold water.
Let sit about 15, or 20, minutes.
Pour the sludge out.
Run a couple of good wet patches through the bore.
Run two or three dry patches through the bore.
Run an oiled patch or two through the bore.
And your done.
Hungry Horse
-
Hungry Horse is right. Water is all you need, anything else just gums up the works. I use hot water instead of cold (we have had that discussion before) but I do it exactly the same way. Not much work at all. If I am not going to be shooting that gun for a while, I might run a patch with some RIG grease down the bore also. A dry patch or two before shooting again will take care of that before shooting again. I have barrels that have not been shot for years that are still perfect.
-
That is about what Grandfather told me, Mr. Horse but then both of you were/are from the 19th century.
Isn't it really necessary to add Clorox or some other great Household Product to get that barrel really clean?
-
HH, I will try that.
The good thing is that I typically spray a good bit of Lehigh or Ballistol down the bore and pull out a good bit of powder fouling while still at the range, and leave the bore fairly wet with lube on the drive home. It seems to help soften things up for a thorough cleaning in the garage.
-
I do almost the same thing. Since I mostly shoot in my backyard, I run a patch wet with Lehigh down the bore when I'm quitting and leave it while I am putting things in the truck. Then when I get to the shop the bottom fouling is soaked soft and usually just needs a few patches and a breechplug brush to finish up. I have never cleaned a barrel down to bare metal white patches. Just down to gray patches. A little G96 on things, grease the lock works, and back in the closet. Never had one rust. Even after 6mos. or so.
-
If you use the water soaked patch to start with, you can forget the other junk. Really, this is mind numbingly simple.
Plug the touch hole with a round toothpick.
Fill the bore with cold water.
Let sit about 15, or 20, minutes.
Pour the sludge out.
Run a couple of good wet patches through the bore.
Run two or three dry patches through the bore.
Run an oiled patch or two through the bore.
And your done.
Hungry Horse
Hh That is what I do except I use WW fluid with a water soluble oil, however being open minded will try it with plain water.
-
I think it was the Holland and Holland firm , and I'm sure many others that recomended room temp. water in their high grade and expensive guns back in the day and it hold true even today. As has been said here many times before, water will get rid of every thing in black powder as you clean and flush. Dry and use something like WD 40. Simple fast and it works.
-
Back in high school I had a friend who was killed in an explosion in his home. He was doing something to the hardwood floor - possibly trying to get the finish off - and was using gasoline. The fumes drifting through the house were ignited by some source, electrical outlet, water heater, etc. The shock of his death couldn't dispel the understanding, of his friends, of how careless and yes, stupid, his decision to use gasoline had been.
-
I will tell ya'll that back in my dim, dark, past I manufacture a black powder solvent. It sold pretty good too, but as with most things now days, the warning label outgrew the bottle.
In my search for the ultimate cleaning solvent I eventually talked with my grandfather, who about laughed himself to death. He told me how he, and his brothers, cleaned the family muzzleloaders when he was a boy, back in Missouri. It seemed way to simple to actually work. But, it was simpler times, when nobody wanted to buy anything they didn't have to. Turns out it's the best way to clean a muzzleloader I've found.
Hungry Horse
-
That is about what Grandfather told me, Mr. Horse but then both of you were/are from the 19th century.
Isn't it really necessary to add Clorox or some other great Household Product to get that barrel really clean?
LOL- Please forget Mr.Kelly mentioned Clorox! He was JOKING!
-
Greetings, I have been an avid BP shooter/long hunter style since my uncle started me down the path in 1969. I have used most every thing recommended for patch lube and cleaning. The best to date is for patching , water-soluble machine oil mixed 40% oil to 60% water. For cleaning 50% murphy oil soap, 50% peroxide and 5% denatured alcohol. Finish with a good synthetic light oil of your choice. The machine oil mix allows continuous shooting with minimal fouling, also it keeps the residue soft for up to a week. The cleaning solution works very well without having to dismantle the rifle. best regards.
-
I would add a "first" and "last" to the cleaning discussion. First, use a scraper on a flat breech to scrape loose what's on the breechface BEFORE cleaning. Tip the barrel muzzle down and let the powder run out. Why clean it out with liquid cleaner when it will literally fall out with a scraper?? Second, after cleaning and oiling the bore, go back the next day and oil it again before storing. Many times I find some light rust in the bore that wipes right out. My experienced target shooting friend says he always does that too. He postulates that there is moisture in the cleaning products that doesn't get completely displaced by the bore oiling. It evaporates overnight, but leaves a light rust film. Hence, hitting it with oil again the next day. Your mileage may very, and I am no expert. God Bless, Marc
-
After reading all this it reminded me of my neighbor's idea for cleaning his T.C Renegade rifle. PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS!! He thought that if he poured a little gasoline (yep that's right) down the barrel. The flash from the cap going off would clean it super fast...!! It severely burned his face an hand...Personally I'll just stick with water an a little oil . Oldtravler
-
Daryl - Heh, heh - Are you sure?
Mr. Horse - Your Grandfather & mine both knew how to clean a rifle. My Grandfather never shot a breechloader until he was 18. Then took aim at a hawk he knew he couldn't hit & was surprised at the result. Don't know if that hawk had time to be surprised.
For all of you - "soap" contains salt. Sodium chloride. Table salt. Salt.
The salt addition helps it flow better through piping when being manufactured.
Kinda like how salt helps garden slugs flow better.
The excess caustic (lye, sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide) in the "soap" is neutralized with hydrochloric acid. Otherwise it would be like Grandma's (OK, Great-Great Grandma's, to some . . .) Lye Soap.
No, I never worked for Proctor & Gamble. I did have a good working relationship with their engineers.
I worked for the company that supplied a lot of the high-horsepower (juiced-up is the term these days?) "stainless" that P&G needed so their equipment didn't corrode away.
From the salt.
And from that little bit of hydrochloric acid
Chat with your high school chemistry teacher about this.
I think I know what the reaction to this will be. But it is just in me, to keep on trying anyway.
-
I've found what is probably the best solution, so far, for cleaning muzzleloaders that I've ever come across. Haven't read any warning labels yet so it must be pretty safe for the user. Cheap, too. Easy to find; just turn on the kitchen tap and the solution pours right out. What could be simpler or cheaper?
-
I pee in mine, read that's how the Mountainy Mens did it.
-
The machine oil mix allows continuous shooting with minimal fouling, also it keeps the residue soft for up to a week.[./b]
Soft for up to a week - YIKES!
As to minimal fouling, if the ball and patch combination is similar to ours, there is no fouling in the bore, shot to shot. Only that single shot's fouling, which is removed next time the gun is loaded.
-
I have tried this a few times, and each time I have been able to clean a bore in less than 5 minutes. I spray a good bit of starter fluid down the barrel, push it down with a patched jag quickly to blow fouling out of the vent hole. Then keep using patches soaked in it, alternating with dry patches. I finish by drying the bore with several dry patches, then lube with an oil-soaked patch.
Bottom line... after shooting a .40 flintlock all afternoon, I was able to clean it in about 5 minutes. After a few hours, I just ran a clean dry patch down and it came out white.
I also took the lock off and sprayed it with starter fluid, wiped it down, and lubed with a suitable oil (Ballistol, Lehigh, etc).
Just thought I'd share this with you all, as it seems to be a very effective alternative. I know... everyone has their method they like, but I'm just throwing this out there, for those who may want an easy alternative to running water down the bore.
Please don't blow anything up!....
use a bronze bore brush and a breach scraper then water..
I do not soften my tap water...and had flash rusting if I used hot water.
-
Interesting, I have never used a breech scraper as I never have had an accumulation of powder on the breech that needed scraping.
My barrels ALWAYS come off to clean them - they are CLEAN- be breech scraping, no fouling left in patent breeches - NP ever & no rust.
-
I also think the breech scraper is yet another worthless gizmo designed to fill up your shooting bag. I have never found an accumulation of fouling son the breech face.
Hungry Horse
-
Water, water, water, water, water, water,water,water,water. So, what part of this is unclear to you?
Hungry Horse
Exactly.
-
Hanshi...what make and model tap do you use?
;) :o ;D
-
I pee in mine, read that's how the Mountainy Mens did it.
Mike, I think it's time you look into indoor plumbing. ::)
Oh, and bones92, in answer to your question: city. 8)
An excellent use for a scraper, I've found, is to push a wet patch down to the breech and use the scraper to turn it and clean the plug recesses. I often scrape before cleaning but rarely is anything there to come out.
-
I also think the breech scraper is yet another worthless gizmo designed to fill up your shooting bag. I have never found an accumulation of fouling son the breech face.
Hungry Horse
Is it pretty dry where you live in California? I live in Florida where it can get, shall we say "humid" and if I shoot a longer match (> 25 shots), I do find the breech face getting pretty gummy and fouled. If not periodically addressed, I have seen fouling actually accumulate past the touch hole in some flintlocks and past the nipple for cap guns. I have never seen this problem in the dryer, winter months.
-
That could be it, maybe you don't need a breech scraper at all, just luggage. I visited South Carolina, some years ago, and can't figure out how they ever fought wars with muzzleloaders there in the summer.
Hungry Horse
-
That could be it, maybe you don't need a breech scraper at all, just luggage. I visited South Carolina, some years ago, and can't figure out how they ever fought wars with muzzleloaders there in the summer.
Hungry Horse
Not wanting to hijack this thread but your comment makes me wonder if, or how, the BP that was used back in the day (US Civil War for example) differed from what we use today? Specifically Goex.
-
Polecat, the answer is YES. Ever wonder about that line " . . . and the rocket's red glare . . ." when all the powder flashes you have seen were orange? 19th century guys used a more pure grade of saltpeter than used today, at least in the USA. The best American powder of that period was made in Augusta, Georgia. Allegedly du Pont made sure that mill ceased to function after April, 1865. Augusta made better powder than did that mill on the Brandywine.
Nearest modern thing to that used in Mr. Lincoln's war is Swiss. I think it even burns red
However, I bow to Mad Monk's comments.
-
Southern Indiana has a lot of humidity and I have helped several shooters who were lubing with some of animal fat, bees wax mixture and a couple guys using commercial lube. They were wiping between shots and every wipe they were shoving the crud down on the face of the plug. In a few shots they had a cookie built up on the face of the plug blocking the touch hole and leading to miss fires and hang fires when did go off. This was line shooting and I converted these guys over to saliva and there shooting improved a lot. Do not want to argue lubes but this what we have to deal with here, and is why we do not use a lot of 2f powder as it makes more dirt.
-
I never used starter fluid, that's the same stuff they used to put me to sleep, when my tonsils were removed at age 5, (ether). I have used carburetor cleaner, its much less volatile and works fine. I keep a can in my range box, for use while I am still at the range. Keep yer powder dry..........robin 8)
-
Why would anybody pay for a solution to clean black powder when there is plenty of water for free?
-
Polecat, the answer is YES. Ever wonder about that line " . . . and the rocket's red glare . . ." when all the powder flashes you have seen were orange? 19th century guys used a more pure grade of saltpeter than used today, at least in the USA. The best American powder of that period was made in Augusta, Georgia. Allegedly du Pont made sure that mill ceased to function after April, 1865. Augusta made better powder than did that mill on the Brandywine.
Nearest modern thing to that used in Mr. Lincoln's war is Swiss. I think it even burns red
However, I bow to Mad Monk's comments.
"And the rockets red glare" Well what we had there was the fact that the Brits used wheel mills with limestone wheels (rollers). As they ground the ingredients small amounts of the limestone (calcium carbonate) would wear off the wheels and end up in the powder. Then when the powder was burned in the gun the calcium would give a bright red color to the incandescent gases leaving the barrel. So when you look at old paintings from the F&I War or Rev War the red muzzle flairs seen in the paintings were real.
If you make a black powder with high purity potassium nitrate and a low ash content charcoal you can expect to see a violet color flair at low light. Found that out one night when I sort of blew up the wife's Lupine garden in front of the back deck. But I did have about a week of quiet after that. And the following year the Lupines came back very well.
-
Wouldn't carb cleaner and starting fluid affect the rifle finish?
-
Why would anybody pay for a solution to clean black powder when there is plenty of water for free?
Some folks even pay for water metered into their homes. I pump mine from deep in the ground. But also the rain bbl collects truly free water (but for some western states where rainwater collection is prohibited).
Graywater would work too... :P
-
Polecat, the answer is YES. Ever wonder about that line " . . . and the rocket's red glare . . ." when all the powder flashes you have seen were orange? 19th century guys used a more pure grade of saltpeter than used today, at least in the USA. The best American powder of that period was made in Augusta, Georgia. Allegedly du Pont made sure that mill ceased to function after April, 1865. Augusta made better powder than did that mill on the Brandywine.
Nearest modern thing to that used in Mr. Lincoln's war is Swiss. I think it even burns red
However, I bow to Mad Monk's comments.
Got it! But, were the powders back then less effected by humidity than what we use today? Or less....?
"And the rockets red glare" Well what we had there was the fact that the Brits used wheel mills with limestone wheels (rollers). As they ground the ingredients small amounts of the limestone (calcium carbonate) would wear off the wheels and end up in the powder. Then when the powder was burned in the gun the calcium would give a bright red color to the incandescent gases leaving the barrel. So when you look at old paintings from the F&I War or Rev War the red muzzle flairs seen in the paintings were real.
If you make a black powder with high purity potassium nitrate and a low ash content charcoal you can expect to see a violet color flair at low light. Found that out one night when I sort of blew up the wife's Lupine garden in front of the back deck. But I did have about a week of quiet after that. And the following year the Lupines came back very well.
-
Has anyone ever used Ballistol for cleaning their rifle.....?
-
Polecat, the answer is YES. Ever wonder about that line " . . . and the rocket's red glare . . ." when all the powder flashes you have seen were orange? 19th century guys used a more pure grade of saltpeter than used today, at least in the USA. The best American powder of that period was made in Augusta, Georgia. Allegedly du Pont made sure that mill ceased to function after April, 1865. Augusta made better powder than did that mill on the Brandywine.
Got it! But, were the powders back then less effected by humidity than what we use today? Or less....?
Depends on the time period in question and who made the powders.
Another point here is relative to "what we use today".
If you look at GOEX made between 1972 and 2000 you see a black powder that was considerably more hygroscopic than old powders. They used a poor grade of potassium nitrate that contained some sodium nitrate.
High purity potassium nitrate is only very mildly sensitive to moisture in the air. How the powder behaves with changes in relative humidity is going to depend on how pure it is. A 99.9% pure potassium nitrate picks up only minute amounts of water from the air until the relative humidity reaches 92%. That is it's critical point. At 92% R.H. it begins to pick up moisture from the air. At 100% it should only pick up 1.6%, by weight, of water from the air. C&H once used that weight increase at 92% R.H. as a QC test on their potassium nitrate supply. With the old GOEX made with the Vicksburg Chemical Company potassium nitrate the total weight increase at 99 to 100% R.H. was 16%, not 1.6%.
The powders we have now at this time are all made with a high purity potassium nitrate and are not noted for getting very damp when exposed to humid air.
-
Iloco I use Balistol after I clean with water. Don't see any reason why you can't. To me the stuff is awesome. IMHO...Mike
-
Has anyone ever used Ballistol for cleaning their rifle.....?
Yes, regularly. But mainly once I've cleaned most of the fouling out first.
And I store BP arms with a good coat of Ballistol, too.
-
I am a believer in room temp water for cleaning!! In some conditions a bottom scraper is very handy and sometimes used!I like the touchhole cleaner clamp after I have replaced the oring with a faucet washer. The water soluble oil hydrogen peroxide and alcohol discussesd previously is an excellent cleaner however I ruined a barrel back in the day using TOO MUCH PEROXIDE!! It never shot well after that!! And alwalys use oil with whatever oil you use come back the next day or two and run an oily patch down the barrel to reduce rust.
-
For that matter, black powder is an explosive.
I figured most people had a can of starting fluid around, for when a mower or other small engine needs coaxing.
BP does not vaporize and spread widely and invisibly. One does not normally scatter BP all over the shop.
Dan
-
Boy there is a passel of you guys that literally can't do things the cheapest,fastest, easiest, way. And, I'm not saying that in my almost half century of fooling around with muzzleloaders, I haven't tried a lot of cleaning brews myself, but really, starting fluid, and carberator cleaner. I expect the new guy up will be cleaning with Tidy Bowl, and Kotex. Oh, and putting peroxide in a finely made rifle barrel should be classified as a criminal act in my book. JMO.
Hungry Horse
-
There are sure a lot of ways to take a simple operation and make it complex!
Water, tore up old tee shirts, lube when done. Shoot some more- repeat!
Kevin
-
Our ancestors cleaned the simple, easy way; why can't we? I can just picture Washington's troops passing around a bottle of "carb cleaner". ::)