AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Tutorials => Gunmaking tools and techniques- metal shaping => Topic started by: Longknife on April 16, 2009, 12:16:32 AM
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This procedure, in the present day is known as "coning". ie a "coned" muzzle. It was known in the 19th century as "relieving", ie; a "relieved" muzzle and also as "funneling", ie a "funneled" muzzle. There is very little historical data written about this as the gunsmiths' apprentice was taught the "hands on" method and not from a text book.
When these "hand taught" barrels makers passed on all their secrets died with them. I have examined many original m-loading barrels and there is definately a "funneling" at the muzzle. Some historians thought this "funneling" might be ram rod wear but that does not appear to be the case. One of the most interesting quotes on this subject is that of the famous Bill Large (now deceased). Bill was one of the founding Fathers of the NMLRA and one of the earliest 20th century barrel makers who helped pioneer the resurection of the m-loading rifle. Bill Large barrels are coveted today. In a letter to John Baird who wrote "HAWKEN RIFLES, THE MOUNTAIN MANS CHOICE". Bill stated that he had re-bored and rifled 25 to 30 original Hawken barrels!!!!---- He also stated---"all were belled and showed signs of the funneling tool commonly used by most gunsmiths, as a request of the owner, to permit easy and fast reloading"""".
I first began experimenting coning muzzles when I heard that these tools being made as "caliber specefic",ie; you had to have a seperate tool for each caliber you wanted coned. These caliber specific tools had a slow taper and removed a LOT of rifling deep into the bore. I wondered how much of the rifling HAD to be removed, and at what angle it had to be removed "to permit easy and fast reloading", thus eliminating the use of a short starter.
I then handmade some protoypes out of different materials, just to see if it really would work---AND IT DID!!! I hand made many tools over the last couple of years and I changed the specs. slightly each time to make it more universal. I finally was satisfied enough to go the the lathe and produce some out of pure yellow brass. Now you need only ONE TOOL!!!! This coning tool will work on those little .32 cal squirrel guns AND up to the big .75 cal "bore" guns by using YOUR CORRECT size cleaning jag..
(https://preview.ibb.co/gn1USv/01_Mark_depth_of_tool_without_sand_paper_installed.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eN9uua)
Insert tool into barrel and mark depth
(https://preview.ibb.co/kK2xEa/02_Make_a_paper_pattern_at_least_2_and_one_half_inches_long.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hErqZa)
Make a paper pattern of at least 2 1/2 inches long
(https://preview.ibb.co/gFHxEa/03_align_paper_at_mark_and_overlap_it_at_least_a_quarter_inch.jpg) (http://ibb.co/if9Ynv)
Align paper at mark and overlap it at least one quarter inch.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FfcWDnv%2F04_Start_with_150_coarse.jpg&hash=7af36f2e5dc8b36be5ce93f3a32e6cacf48aa859) (http://ibb.co/gA7m7v)
Start with coarse 150 grit paper.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FfxpcEa%2F05_Use_your_preference_of_adhesive_and_align_paper_with_mark.jpg&hash=3a28a2622a7ecaabbca3fd24415736b622f2ebc2) (https://ibb.co/dPD4ua)
Use you preference of adhesive and align paper with mark. I have used 3M spray upholstery adhesive (expensive) or a thin coat of rubber cement (much cheaper). at times a thin strip of duct tape will help at top and bottom.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gwiLZa/06_Wrap_counter_clockwise_looking_at_threaded_end_of_tool.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i7uinv)
Wrap paper counter clockwise looking at threaded end of tool.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FhDMDnv%2F07_paper_glued_and_tap_handle_installed.jpg&hash=b804a33b2e6e4a2c35230b8d36bd1901c10b17b1) (https://ibb.co/cx0jua)
Paper glued and tap handle installed.
(https://preview.ibb.co/ju8yLF/08_Use_a_proper_sized_cleaning_jag_a_well_lubed_snug_fitting_patch_and_insert.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bKt9Sv)
Use your proper size tightly patched cleaning jag to center the tool in the barrel. This tool works great on crowned barrels and can also be used on fresh cut offs by lightly crowning the barrel, just enough to get patch and jag started with out tearing.
(https://preview.ibb.co/czUoLF/09_A_drop_of_wd_40_makes_it_cut_better.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hGqHEa)
A drop of WD 40 helps keep the paper cleaner for a smooth cut, just a little though as you don't want it to soak through the paper and soften the glue.
(https://preview.ibb.co/fNpf0F/10_First_cut_I_use_a_little_Duct_tape_sometimes.jpg) (http://ibb.co/epD7fF)
First cut. A little duct tape helps at times.
(https://preview.ibb.co/eTV3LF/11_Second_cut_move_paper_up_tool_and_cut_again.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dBLQZa)
Second cut, move the paper up tool till a clean area of paper contacts the bore and cut again.
(https://preview.ibb.co/f8ZkZa/12_Third_cut_move_paper_up_and_cut_again.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mKwzua)
Third cut, moved paper up and cut again.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dtTjSv/13_Notice_how_cutting_patterns_keep_geting_longer.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iApDLF)
Notice how the cutting patterns keep getting longer.
(https://preview.ibb.co/ffx5Za/14_Cone_till_rifling_at_muzzle_is_gone_with_150.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d7MXEa)
Cone till the rifling just disappears at muzzle.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jLWM7v/15_Then_switch_to_320_and_finally_polish_with_fine.jpg) (http://ibb.co/m8Yq0F)
Switch to 320 grit and polish with fine.
(https://preview.ibb.co/m4AOnv/16_Finished_you_will_notice_a_short_crown_where_the_bottom_of_the_lands_are_polished.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jPssfF)
When you are finished you will see a short section where the bottom of the lands are polished. This should be enough to get you loading easy but if not satisfied after testing then go through same procedure again.
Thank You for taking the time to read my Tutorial, Ed Hamberg,,, (Longknife)
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Thanks for the tutorial, very easy to follow!!
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Having finished my new .54 last fall and finally getting down to sighting it in,I'm considering coning it's muzzle.Is this the tool seen advertised in the magazines?
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Thanks Ed, that was a very well thought out tutorial and now that I have your tool in hand will be trying it out shortly. Real good idea for hunting guns used in the cold country. Thanks again, Gary
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Gary, hope the tool works out for you. To every one else, yes this is a universal tool and can do all standard calibers between .32 and .75. It makes it much easier to start the ball so you can do away with the short starter. I have never experienced a decrease in accuracy after coning a muzzle. It can also increase accuracy if you barrel suffers from uneven ramrod wear at the muzzle. I have not advertized this tool anywhere but this forum...yet. Ed
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I've used Wood's tools in the past and although they are calibre specific, I have had nothing but fantastic results with them. All the rifles I've built (with the exception of the first, which the client ((my wife)) specifically didn't want coned) have had the 'treatment' with a Woods tool and i can't say enough good stuff about them.
just one guy's free advice, and no doubt worth every penny!
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From what I can gather Ed you should have an area about 1/16 to 1/8 where the rifling has been removed?? Or can this vary from cut to cut?
Brett.
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Brett, The Barrel I used in the instructions had .010 rifling and I removed all of it, till I could see the grooves just starting to polish. I like to ream till the rifling just disappears, this usually takes two 150 grit pads, three cuts each so six passes to remove the rifling, then smooth with 320 , and polish with fine. If you rifling is deeper it may take more cuts, but I suggest you try this first and if it doesn't load easy enough for you then do it again...Shoot straight...LOAD EASY...Ed
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Hi
would you mind giving the dimensions of the cutter. I would love to make one.
Bert
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Having finished my new .54 last fall and finally getting down to sighting it in,I'm considering coning it's muzzle.Is this the tool seen advertised in the magazines?
Do some load development first to get an accuracy standard should shoot into 1" or less at 50 and less than 1.5 at 100.
Then cone it and test again.
From reports I have read you may not be pleased.
Dan
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Having finished my new .54 last fall and finally getting down to sighting it in,I'm considering coning it's muzzle.Is this the tool seen advertised in the magazines?
Do some load development first to get an accuracy standard should shoot into 1" or less at 50 and less than 1.5 at 100.
Then cone it and test again.
From reports I have read you may not be pleased.
Dan
If properly coned, I have never seen a barrel lose accuracy. If not coned correctly, yes, accuracy is lost. It is all about workmanship. I have several guns with coned muzzles that I would put up against any crowned muzzle. Just make sure you don't over cone. I made that mistake on one of the first barrels I coned. The ball would roll off the patch and down the bore before I could get it started into the bore.
By the way, great tutorial Ed.
Dave
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Longknife ... I appreciate the time you took for the informative and very useful tutorial. Information and instructions such as this are very useful for the inexperienced such as myself. I never even seen "coning tools" until I joined this website.
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Very nicely done tutorial Ed. I'm sure anyone coning a barrel for the first time will find that very helpful. I wish you had done that a few years back. I still remember the fear I felt doing my first one.
Thanks for taking the time to share.
Ken
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This is something I would like to do to my rifle, are these still available and if so does anyone know where I can purchase one?
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I got mine from Ed Hamberg or Longknife who did the tutorial. Click on his name (Longknife) and send him a PM, that's what I did.
Kevin
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Troy, I have sent you ordering info, Thanks Ed
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Anyone interested in my tool can PM me here or e-mail me at my address in my profile. It is listed for sale at following link:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4330.0
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Can you still cut at the muzzle with it coned?
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Can you still cut at the muzzle with it coned?
Here is a discussion on that.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=15497.0
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Ok. thanks.
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Can you still cut at the muzzle with it coned?
Yes you can,, Just don't cone it too much,,,,Ed
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Can you still cut at the muzzle with it coned?
I’m the one who posted that thread asking the same question.
The general consensus was yes, you can, but when coning stop often and make sure you don’t go too much. I’ve yet to do it as my rifle isn’t ready yet, among other reasons.
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Guys,
This tutorial for coning a barrel does work very well. However, I have found that the life of abrasive paper, wet-dry abrasive paper, the glue joint, etc. can be rather short. But, recently I purchased some 3-M abrasive sheets named "no-slip-grip". This stuff has a rubber backing and really is excellent when using this type of coning tool. When used with a turn of Gorilla tape at top & bottom, this stuff does not shift, wrinkle or tear. I just finished coning a barrel using only one application of the "no-slip-grip" (220 grit).
The drawback is that this stuff is purple color! Egad! I am sure that purple abrasive paper is against the ALR rules somewhere?
Jim
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Hi Ed,
Great tutorial. I have a question. In the instructions for making a paper pattern, you state "Align paper at mark and overlap it at least one quarter inch." Do you also overlap the sandpaper on the coning tool? That seems like it would create a "bump" in the sandpaper that would result in an uneven cut. Thanks.
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Ron, sorry for the late reply. Yes, in this tutorial I do overlap the paper, but it still cuts even, with the "bump". The overlap allows you to move the paper up the tool and get extra cuts out of one piece of paper. You can butt the template and butt the paper and that works great to, you just need to cut more papers. In talking to my customers that is what many do. ,,,Ed