AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Uncle Alvah on April 15, 2017, 05:50:44 AM
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The slots on my Siler Flintlock seem pretty narrow. MY thinnest blade screwdriver is one I ground down to fit the CZ scope ring screws they include with their guns, but its still a bit too large. Should I simply work it down some more or invest in a set of Brownells thin-slot bits?
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Invest in some gun screwdrivers for sure. The brownell Thin slot bits sound interesting as some screw slots are really narrow. The slot in the screw that tightens down on the flint is very narrow on my Large Siler's and I had to hollow grind a screwdriver to fit. That was over 10 years ago and the slots still look like new. It would probably be better to buy what you need right off to get you started out right.
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I can recommend Brownells screwdriver tip set. proper hardness, and I have never found a screw slot I couldn't fit with the verity of lengths and widths.
Turtle
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I guess I'm a heretic, because I widen the slots before hardening the screws. When out in the woods, I like to be able to tighten screws or adjust a flint without requiring a special tool.
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Invest in some gun screwdrivers for sure. The brownell Thin slot bits sound interesting as some screw slots are really narrow. The slot in the screw that tightens down on the flint is very narrow on my Large Siler's and I had to hollow grind a screwdriver to fit. That was over 10 years ago and the slots still look like new. It would probably be better to buy what you need right off to get you started out right.
I got a call years ago complaining about the narrow slots in my lock screws and I advised buying a sharp file and
altering a screw driver.Most screw drivers sold in hardware stores are made to sell rather than to use but they can be doctored
with a bit of careful filing.
Bob Roller
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I like Bob in the woods approach. Were the screw slots on original American longrifles narrow? I know the British fine guns from back then had narrow slots,the ones I've seen anyway.
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You can make your own "gun specific" hollow ground turnscrews by mounting a small sanding drum or stone in your drill press and using it to form a section of drill rod to the thickness you desire. Then harden and temper the rod and mount it in a handle. You could probably do the same with them mounted in a Dremel tool. Forge a flat section on the handle end so the rod doesn't spin when you mount it in the handle.
This is why you almost always find a set of turnscrews in cased English guns.
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I like narrow slots, the narrower the better. One reason I make all my own screws. Narrow slots say "quality". Wide slots scream "cheap" IMO.
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I have a Wheeler Engineering screw driver bit set that is ONLY used for gun work. To me it was well worth the money. The gunsmiths of the past made their own screw drivers because either there were none to buy or if they were available but the cost was high so they made their own. Now a days you can buy high class screw driver sets at a reasonable price and they are made to fit 98% + of the screw slots out there.
This is the set I have <https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/439523/wheeler-engineering-89-piece-professional-plus-gunsmithing-screwdriver-set> but their are other sets for less like this <https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/264720/wheeler-engineering-43-piece-professional-gunsmithing-screwdriver-set>
They are well worth the money invested ;).
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This screw is the only one being difficult. I'll shape the bit down a somemore to try and get it. I have also ordered a Wheler kit from Amazon so I don't have to mess wityh this any more.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FhRDkRQ%2Fthumbnail_IMG_20170414_141045526.jpg&hash=3f17f1f0e72b8d106c7ae45e90dad33f81a5615b) (http://ibb.co/cArGY5)
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That picture reminds me. I have yet to use this product but will be getting some soon (lee Valley sells it). I should be great for disassembling locks without buggering the heads. Be sure to watch it to the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajt8QlDJ8D8
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I re-file all my screw slots so that I can use a "V" shaped screwdriver like was used with the original screws. I have a couple antique turnscrews I use for lock work. They are ground to fit the slots I file. I have a set of Brownells Magna-tip screwdrivers that I use to get the screws out to re-file them. You could just use the Magna-tips if you don't want to re-file your screw slots. Of course, you will need several size tips for your average lock. Once I re-file the slots, I use one turnscrew.
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This screw is the only one being difficult. I'll shape the bit down a somemore to try and get it. I have also ordered a Wheler kit from Amazon so I don't have to mess wityh this any more.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FhRDkRQ%2Fthumbnail_IMG_20170414_141045526.jpg&hash=3f17f1f0e72b8d106c7ae45e90dad33f81a5615b) (http://ibb.co/cArGY5)
If it makes you feel better Uncle Alvah that screw gives me trouble also as the bolster is ground after the screw is installed, meaning the slot is not as deep as it could be.
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This screw is the only one being difficult. I'll shape the bit down a somemore to try and get it. I have also ordered a Wheler kit from Amazon so I don't have to mess wityh this any more.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FhRDkRQ%2Fthumbnail_IMG_20170414_141045526.jpg&hash=3f17f1f0e72b8d106c7ae45e90dad33f81a5615b) (http://ibb.co/cArGY5)
If it makes you feel better Uncle Alvah that screw gives me trouble also as the bolster is ground after the screw is installed, meaning the slot is not as deep as it could be.
I hand slot my lock screws with an altered Great Neck hack saw blade. Seeing
as how the head is only 5/32 in diameter a narrow slot altered with a miniature
knife file will require a screw driver to fit.
I agree,wide slotted screws look like a dog's breakfast on small screws.
Bob Roller
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If you put the lockplate on a solid surface a hand or possibly a power impack screwdriver with a slot tip would probable take it out. My power impact screwdriver is the best household power tool I have bought in years. I'm also going to get some Screw Grab, it looks like a great idea.
Turtle
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If you don't have the arm strength to hold the blade down and true into the slot, you'll booger it up every time and then blame it on the tool.
An easier way to remove that screw it to clamp it on your drill press table and the blade in your chuck. Then lower it into the slot and turn the chuck.
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I learned something there.
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Thanks for that tip T.O.F. Who hasn't had a stubborn screw a time or two.
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I clamp the plate to my workbench so both hands can be used to remove that screw. If that slot was just a little deeper I would be a happy camper.
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T*O*F that sounds like a great way to do hard screws! Thanks for sharing.
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I second the Wheeler screwdriver set. IF you are going to work on guns you have to have such a set. It is fine to grind your own in a pinch, but getting the temper right is not easy. Too soft and it bends and bugars the screw, too hard and it snaps, you slip and gouge the gun. The Wheeler set will pay for itself the first time you don't damage a nice gun.
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with an altered Great Neck hack saw blade.
As in removing some of the set from the teeth?
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I've amassed a lot of wood handled screwdrivers while going through hardware stores and depts. and because modern screwdriver tips are shallow "V"s, they're hollow ground on a bench grinder using a 6" dia. wheel. Go slow w/ water close by and hold the screwdriver at 90 degrees to the wheel's surface.
Odd thing is that even the "cheapies" have the metal correctly hardened and annealed and should be ground w/o any color appearing.
Hollow grinding allows the screwdriver tip to bear at the bottom of the screw slot as we all know . I don't heat treat lock screws, but harden the heads of all the other screws w/ Kasenit......Fred
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with an altered Great Neck hack saw blade.
As in removing some of the set from the teeth?
Yes,I use these little blades and take a diamond coated file to get the effect I want
and as mentioned.I use a tiny knife file to finish with.
12L14 is what I use and don't harden these screws.
Bob Roller
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I buy wood handled screwdrivers when I find them cheap. I regrind them to fit as needed. Slow grinding and frequent quenching will usually preserve the temper. Final stoning finishes the job. Ocasionally one needs rehardenend and tempered, but this is not difficult either. At a buck or two at flea markets this would be a good place to learn the skill.
I have a rack on the bench with several customized screwdrivers and a coffee can full of spares ready should I need to customize another for a special screw.
Big wide slots on lock screws look out of place I think.