AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: alex e. on April 19, 2009, 04:57:14 AM
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The choice of little dogs everywhere :)
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We shot some out of the wife's gun this afternoon, no noticable difference.
I'll run some through the FDC tomorrow & see what happens.
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Any updates?
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I'm not sure yet. i run it through two different smoothbores of mine,Being that i prime with fffg most times ,I'm not happy with ignition,If i pick my vent,keep things clean & have a good flint,it seems to go well. Its when i don't there seems to be a hangfire I have to try some ffffg as prime & see what happens. as far as accuracy in the smoothies, i think i am at fault,
For reenacting blanks...it goes boom :o
I am still indecisive on it as of now.
I started playing with my .40 as of late so that will tell a tale,As far as it being "dirtier" i cannot really tell. About all for now.
Alex..
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More, more!!
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I prefer 4F for prime, although 3f seems to work too. The faster the prime manifests itself from the frizzen's sparks, the greater and faster the release of energy in the form of heat and therefore the faster the ignition of the main charge. Pletch's experiments have proven this beyond doubt.
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You do know that it is the old Elephant , just under a new name. When I ordered from Powder inc. last month, that's what he told me. He said the reinactors, like it, and some of the BPC guys that shoot a lot, cause it's cheap.
Bill
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You do know that it is the old Elephant , just under a new name. When I ordered from Powder inc. last month, that's what he told me. He said the reinactors, like it, and some of the BPC guys that shoot a lot, cause it's cheap.
Bill
Yes!
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You do know that it is the old Elephant , just under a new name. When I ordered from Powder inc. last month, that's what he told me. He said the reinactors, like it, and some of the BPC guys that shoot a lot, cause it's cheap.
Bill
The machinery from the old S/A Pernambuco Powder Factory was moved to a newly constructed plant that went into production about 3 years ago. The new plant uses the same type of tree for their charcoal.
When the first container of powder from the new plan arrived from Brazil I tried to get my hands on some of it. No deal. They would not give me any samples. Claimed they did not have the necessary permits. I would have been allowed to watch some shooter from Texas test it at the storage facility at Tamaqua, PA. But I was expected to just watch it silently. So I just walked away from that deal.
Then about a year ago another container came up from Brazil. The reps from Diamonback visited some local gunshops handing out samples. Dixon asked me to check out a can of 3F Diamondback they left with him. So I took it to the range to check it against the GOEX made at that time. This second container of Diamondback was about 100 fps slower than 3F GOEX in an 80 grain charge in the .50 cal. Lyman Trade Rifle. When comparing between shot cleaning patches I could see no difference between GOEX and Diamonback in the amount and "texture" of fouling collected by the damp bore swabs.
When Diamondback learned that I had tested the powder they asked me to go up to the Tamaqua facility when the owner of the plant in Brazil was up for a meeting with them. I declined that offer since it would have interfered with something else I was doing at the time.
E. Ogre
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You do know that it is the old Elephant , just under a new name. When I ordered from Powder inc. last month, that's what he told me. He said the reinactors, like it, and some of the BPC guys that shoot a lot, cause it's cheap.
Bill
The machinery from the old S/A Pernambuco Powder Factory was moved to a newly constructed plant that went into production about 3 years ago. The new plant uses the same type of tree for their charcoal.
When the first container of powder from the new plan arrived from Brazil I tried to get my hands on some of it. No deal. They would not give me any samples. Claimed they did not have the necessary permits. I would have been allowed to watch some shooter from Texas test it at the storage facility at Tamaqua, PA. But I was expected to just watch it silently. So I just walked away from that deal.
Then about a year ago another container came up from Brazil. The reps from Diamonback visited some local gunshops handing out samples. Dixon asked me to check out a can of 3F Diamondback they left with him. So I took it to the range to check it against the GOEX made at that time. This second container of Diamondback was about 100 fps slower than 3F GOEX in an 80 grain charge in the .50 cal. Lyman Trade Rifle. When comparing between shot cleaning patches I could see no difference between GOEX and Diamonback in the amount and "texture" of fouling collected by the damp bore swabs.
When Diamondback learned that I had tested the powder they asked me to go up to the Tamaqua facility when the owner of the plant in Brazil was up for a meeting with them. I declined that offer since it would have interfered with something else I was doing at the time.
E. Ogre
If we get in to using it - looks as though adding 10% more powder should compare well with Goex ??? Powder, Inc has it for sale I don't know the price! Seems like it may be a good 2nd option at least when cost is a factor in deciding!
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[/quote]If we get in to using it - looks as though adding 10% more powder should compare well with Goex ??? Powder, Inc has it for sale I don't know the price! Seems like it may be a good 2nd option at least when cost is a factor in deciding!
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A recent observation suggests to me that in 2 or 3 years you would most likely welcome it with open arms.
Beyond that, I'll not comment.
E. Ogre
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If we get in to using it - looks as though adding 10% more powder should compare well with Goex ??? Powder, Inc has it for sale I don't know the price! Seems like it may be a good 2nd option at least when cost is a factor in deciding!
[/quote]
A recent observation suggests to me that in 2 or 3 years you would most likely welcome it with open arms.
Beyond that, I'll not comment.
E. Ogre
[/quote]Oh Oh! >:(
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Powderinc has it for $10.00/ lb shipped. Checked yesterday.
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A person oughta buy anything they could afford right now. ;)
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A person oughta buy anything they could afford right now. ;)
Thats for sure thats for dang sure! After all it doesn't spoil! ;)
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Howdy - we are sure glad to be here to talk about Diamondback Powder ... new shipment in stock arrived in Tamaqua PA last week ... now available in sporting 1Fg, 2Fg, and 3Fg ... and cannon grade ... this is real mechanical black powder ... crafted with very special care ... beautiful consistent sized grains ... great flow when pouring ... burns super clean (shot 20 shots in a row myself many times at the factory without cleaning) ... and very well priced ... all in a handsome looking can too ... and with respect to what everyone is asking about ... yes, it is made in Brazil ... but this is not the old Elephant powder ... different location, different management, different staff ... made by a major explosives manufacturer with a passion for things that go boom ... bottom line is this powder has great quality at a great price ... buy it ... shoot it ... love it! I will be walking around the Shot Show in Vegas on 19JAN and 20JAN if anyone wants to meet up and talk about genuine mechanical powder ... the real thing! Check out the website www.diamondbackchemical.com today!
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"...buy it ... shoot it ... love it!..."
Surprised your first post is marketing hype. I'm just a simple country boy...I would need to have some sort of issue or problem that the powder you're hawking would solve...have to have some reason to serve as an incentive to change and do not.
When I consider all aspects of blackpowder characteristics in order of importance to me...ie: reliability, ignition speed, accuracy, fouling, availability, cost...I find Goex to be the best all around price/performer on the market...and the good news is that it's made right here in the USA.
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Diamondback, I have to agree with Roundball, plus the president of Brazil has stated emphatically, that he has A big problem with people of my particular eye color, you know, causing ALL the problems in the world.
Nothing personal.
Robby
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We had better support the "Good Ole" United States products as much as we can. Too many things are being imported at cheaper prices only to hurt US in the long run. Have any of you asked yourselves "whats going on ??"
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Its good to have as many suppliers as possible...
Its also good to buy American---I support that...
If America stops making and selling, its good to know that there are alternatives. Its a perlous time to be alive... but exciting too.
I'll look for ya at the SHOT Show Diamondback, and best of luck to you sir.
Ken Prather
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Its good to have as many suppliers as possible...
Its also good to buy American---I support that...
If America stops making and selling, its good to know that there are alternatives. Its a perlous time to be alive... but exciting too.
I'll look for ya at the SHOT Show Diamondback, and best of luck to you sir.
Ken Prather
We should not forget that when GOEX was the only show in town there were several times that the future of the business was in doubt. Every time they had an explosion at Moosic or Minden the plant would be out of production for 5 to 6 months at a time. Twice there were questions if the facility would be rebuilt.
GOEX tried to scale back the Moosic plant in 1995. GOEX had tried to import black powder from Brazil for sale through their distribution system. Moosic would have produced only military powders. Fireworks, blasting and sporting would have been Elephant in a GOEX can.
When GOEX shut down the Moosic plant it took them 7 months to get back in production at the Minden plant. Were it not for Elephant, at that time, the U.S. would have run out of black powder several months before Minden went into production.
In 2002 the investment company that owned GOEX, at that time, tried to sell the whole business to WANO, in Germany, but wanted too much money for the business. In 2003 the investment company approached WANO with a deal where WANO would produce ALL of Goex's powders. They thought about simply shutting down the Minden facility.
The bread and butter BP production at Minden is the military business. The military pays about $30 a pound for powder similar to what we use. Just larger grain sizes for military applications. So sporting powders are just a side show in their business.
Bill K.
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Goex is now owned by Hodgdon Powder
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Goex is now owned by Hodgdon Powder
I should have clarified that. I assumed that everyone knew it.
Bill K.
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Bill, I was hoping you would chime in. Have you tested or at least had a chance to use this powder? If so, is there anything you tell about it?
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Bill, I was hoping you would chime in. Have you tested or at least had a chance to use this powder? If so, is there anything you tell about it?
Dave,
I have not seen any of the latest container into the U.S.
I did get a can of 3Fg out of the second container they brought in about 2 or 3 years ago. I would have to go back to my backup disks to locate it.
When Dixon gave me the can of 3fg I bought a fresh can of GOEX 3Fg before leaving the shop. A few days later I took it down to the range.
Over the chronograph it was a bit slower than the can of 3Fg used as a "standard". But since I had not shot a bunch of GOEX that year I don't know if I had a fast or slow lot of GOEX given the range in lot to lot velocity I had seen with GOEX in past shooting.
I was using Ox-Yoke's version of the Lehigh Valley lube. During the shooting I could not tell any difference in the amount or "texture" of the fouling. They fouled identically in my .50 percussion rifle.
When I shot the Diamondback it reminded me of the 1999 Elephant performance.
I was first told that this Diamondback powder would sell for the same price as GOEX. When I check the web now I see they priced it well below GOEX prices.
I have not looked at any of the Diamonback out of the most recent container but then I have not looked at GOEX production in the last 2 or 3 years either.
Too busy racking up the mileage on the bicycles pesting the deer we keep running into. Darn things are a hazard on the bike trail we use. If I take up flintlock deer hunting again it will be off a good mountain bike!!
Bill K.
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Apology to all about the marketing hype on my first post ... got me on that one ... no disrespect intended ... guess I just got too excited about getting the chance to say something about the product and clarify some background info ... and I jumped in all at once ... lesson learned ... will make sure to keep the tone down going forward ... and more importantly ... let the product and pricing speak for themselves to everyone ... so I will get back to spending my time on what I do best ... seeking informatin, listening, and understanding what the market expects and desires from real BP ... and ensuring the product quality is consistent and reliable from lot to lot ... and keep the price good for everyone ... appreciate the replies ... and remain at your service .. thanks ... have a good night.
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Apology to all about the marketing hype on my first post ... got me on that one ... no disrespect intended ... guess I just got too excited about getting the chance to say something about the product and clarify some background info ... and I jumped in all at once ... lesson learned ... will make sure to keep the tone down going forward ... and more importantly ... let the product and pricing speak for themselves to everyone ... so I will get back to spending my time on what I do best ... seeking informatin, listening, and understanding what the market expects and desires from real BP ... and ensuring the product quality is consistent and reliable from lot to lot ... and keep the price good for everyone ... appreciate the replies ... and remain at your service .. thanks ... have a good night.
I personally was not offended by your previous post. I am glad to hear it is not the old Elephant re-packaged, as my experiences with Elephant were entirely bad [musta got a bad batch as others liked it]. I submit that competition is good for us. GOEX has gotten expensive and hard to get around here--and I live a half hour from their Minden Plant in Lousyanna. I welcome a quality alternative--now if we could just get a local seller! The main usage down here is CW reenactors as most hunters are using synthetic powder and we 18th/early 19th cent historians/shooters are a decided minority!
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From the Diamondback website:
"Diamondback Black Powder is manufactured by Elephant Industria Quimica (EIQ) in Brazil to DCCI’s technical specifications."
That being aside, a choice of black powder manufacturers is a good thing. Kinda like different grades of modern smokeless powder. However I'll be a while shooting up 31 pounds of Goex.
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From the Diamondback website:
"Diamondback Black Powder is manufactured by Elephant Industria Quimica (EIQ) in Brazil to DCCI’s technical specifications."
That being aside, a choice of black powder manufacturers is a good thing. Kinda like different grades of modern smokeless powder. However I'll be a while shooting up 31 pounds of Goex.
I should point out something here.
The company name shows "Elephant". That is not to suggest that this is simply Elephant all over again. The Elephant logo that the S/A Pernambuco Powder Factory had used since it had first been started simply went along with the change in ownership. The new plant was constructed around the machinery pulled from the old plant. Management and staff are new.
I am going to go a bit afield here on this.
When people started selling Chinese-made black powder in the U.S. I got a bit upset. Why should I purchase gun supplies made in a country where private gun ownership is forbidden.
As my work with Elephant was winding down there was movement in Brazil to outlaw private gun ownership. The govt. in Brazil put it up for a national vote. The anti-gunners in Brazil were handed a big defeat. The govt. went along with the "will of the people" on it.
Bill K.
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From the Diamondback website:
"Diamondback Black Powder is manufactured by Elephant Industria Quimica (EIQ) in Brazil to DCCI’s technical specifications."
That being aside, a choice of black powder manufacturers is a good thing. Kinda like different grades of modern smokeless powder. However I'll be a while shooting up 31 pounds of Goex.
I should point out something here.
The company name shows "Elephant". That is not to suggest that this is simply Elephant all over again. The Elephant logo that the S/A Pernambuco Powder Factory had used since it had first been started simply went along with the change in ownership. The new plant was constructed around the machinery pulled from the old plant. Management and staff are new.
I am going to go a bit afield here on this.
When people started selling Chinese-made black powder in the U.S. I got a bit upset. Why should I purchase gun supplies made in a country where private gun ownership is forbidden.
As my work with Elephant was winding down there was movement in Brazil to outlaw private gun ownership. The govt. in Brazil put it up for a national vote. The anti-gunners in Brazil were handed a big defeat. The govt. went along with the "will of the people" on it.
Bill K.
Jeez - So the 'boys' in "Rio" went with the WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!! ::) @!*% well better than here - Ok Ok I'll shut up!!
I had a chance to 'look' at the diamond back abt a year ago only enough to pour some in my hand alongside of goex and the diamond back was blacker - had a nice shine - and more evenly sized. no splinters. I was not allowed by the owner of the can of diamond back to shoot any ::) ;D I did my damnest to pry the can out of his hand but lost the tussle. He shot it at 25 yds as I recall and all I know is it went bang! Not a v good test or comparison.... ;)
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[/quote]Jeez - So the 'boys' in "Rio" went with the WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!! ::) @!*% well better than here - Ok Ok I'll shut up!!
I had a chance to 'look' at the diamond back abt a year ago only enough to pour some in my hand alongside of goex and the diamond back was blacker - had a nice shine - and more evenly sized. no splinters. I was not allowed by the owner of the can of diamond back to shoot any ::) ;D I did my damnest to pry the can out of his hand but lost the tussle. He shot it at 25 yds as I recall and all I know is it went bang! Not a v good test or comparison.... ;)
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Be nice Roger. Remember. Tamaqua, PA
By coal regions standards they are just over the hill from you in another patch. Just off Clamtown Road.
Bill K.
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Jeez - So the 'boys' in "Rio" went with the WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!! ::) @!*% well better than here - Ok Ok I'll shut up!!
I had a chance to 'look' at the diamond back abt a year ago only enough to pour some in my hand alongside of goex and the diamond back was blacker - had a nice shine - and more evenly sized. no splinters. I was not allowed by the owner of the can of diamond back to shoot any ::) ;D I did my damnest to pry the can out of his hand but lost the tussle. He shot it at 25 yds as I recall and all I know is it went bang! Not a v good test or comparison.... ;)
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Be nice Roger. Remember. Tamaqua, PA
By coal regions standards they are just over the hill from you in another patch. Just off Clamtown Road.
Bill K.
[/quote]This begs the question:: If we would knock on their magazine door, could we buy some there? ::)
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Be nice Roger. Remember. Tamaqua, PA
By coal regions standards they are just over the hill from you in another patch. Just off Clamtown Road.
Bill K.
[/quote]This begs the question:: If we would knock on their magazine door, could we buy some there? ::)
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I don't think they are set up to sell directly off that patch of ground.
The old Atlas Powder property. Another facility on the property does medical nitro stuff. Big fence, guard house,etc. The last thing they need as far as site security is people pulling into the place to buy cases of black powder.
They had tried to get Dixon to stock it but Dixon is limited to how much owder they can have on the property and the GOEX and Swiss business takes up all of their limited magazine capacity. A distributor in Eastern PA would be nice though.
Bill K.
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Hmmm, Tamaqua...I was raised just down the road in Pottsville and now live near the GOEX plant, who'd a thunk it?
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Hmmm, Tamaqua...I was raised just down the road in Pottsville and now live near the GOEX plant, who'd a thunk it?
Well now Mike!! Pottsville - Yikes... Can you tell us anything printable about
Minersville Street? Or was that b/4 your time.... ::) ;D
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Hmmm, Tamaqua...I was raised just down the road in Pottsville and now live near the GOEX plant, who'd a thunk it?
An above ground farmer or an underground farmer?
I am about 30 miles South of there.
Bill K.
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Sorry, no direct sales from the magazine ... standby for more distributors on the site.
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We will be visiting and walking the expo at the Shot Show in Vegas next week with our friends from the powder plant in Brazil ... if you will be there ... and are interested to meet and chat with us ... or know anyone who might be ... just contact me to setup a time and place ... we appreciate it ... thank you.
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Received a great question about the details of the ingrediants and production process outside of here ... and regret company policy restricts me from providing the details requested ... I know it sounds like something from Colonel Sanders ... but the market conditions and competition obligate us to keep this valuable info internal ... which additionally helps ensure we meet our mission goal of providing a dependable high quality product, at equivalant or better performance than our competitors, at a lower cost.
Let it be clear we are not trying to meet or exceed the level of the #1 product which everyone pays top price for ... and we highly respect those skilled boys for the absolutely beautiful craftsmanship work they do ... and we appreciate the price folks pay price for it ... but we are betting we got the edge on everyone else in the market ... I am going to shut up now about that ... don't want to overbuild the hype up ... and we appreciate the value of letting the consumers decide on their own ... time will telll all on its own ... we have been watching and listening for a long time and are pretty sure we got the quality and price just right for y'all who like to go out regularly and shoot a bunch with very satisfying results without breaking the bank.
We are working on getting powder to a couple of the major events this year ... as this economy is opening more shooters to considering the product.
Thanks again for the welcome ... looking forward to listening and watching the market response to the product ... checking in here periodically ... and working hard to keep things right for y'all to be happy with the product ... consistent high quality from lot to lot ... with an attractive price ... you know where to find me outside of here ... rodney@diamondbackchemical.com ... cheers!
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Hmmm, Tamaqua...I was raised just down the road in Pottsville and now live near the GOEX plant, who'd a thunk it?
Well now Mike!! Pottsville - Yikes... Can you tell us anything printable about
Minersville Street? Or was that b/4 your time.... ::) ;D
Not before my time I am afraid, and yes I could tell a few tales...I moved there ca. 1952 , age 8, and went off to Penn State in 1962. When I was between terms at PSU one winter I worked delivering packages for the US Postal Service. On a cold winter's day I delivered a box to a Minersville St address and an obese black lady opened the door, nearly filling it, and invited me in, but I could just see behind her a young teen girl totally nude--it was one of "those" houses--I declined, being both a good FBI Agent's son and a little shy still...but the street had quite a rep for drugs and "hos"....
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Hmmm, Tamaqua...I was raised just down the road in Pottsville and now live near the GOEX plant, who'd a thunk it?
An above ground farmer or an underground farmer?
I am about 30 miles South of there.
Bill K.
HA! I haunted the coal mines because of an interest in geology--which I later pursued at Penn State. But my Dad was the local FBI Agent.
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Since the last post in this thread, has anyone given this Diamondback Powder a good testing as yet?
If so, I'd like to hear the details. Thanks