AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Contemporary Longrifle Collecting => Topic started by: plowboysghost on July 26, 2017, 12:43:28 AM
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(Edited to correct name of barrel maker)
I just joined, and hope that I'm posting this in the right place.
I just traded for my first flintlock and happen to run across a couple ole boys that claimed to be muzzleloader builders on the way home with it when I was trying to pick up ball and flint at my usual shop. They made alot of it and suggested I talk to ya'll here to find out what I actually have.
It's .40 cal.
It's stamped "Barrel made by Dave R. Taylor Little Hocking, Ohio"
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fd41o25%2FDSCN0940.jpg&hash=835d05c8adc0398f9b37878ed81ebf743a13ff6d) (http://ibb.co/fcbMN5)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FkYUK9k%2FDSCN0943.jpg&hash=8a05f1ede6cb2910374098b1ec89b0efea465ddf) (http://ibb.co/mgCHvQ)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fc14xvQ%2FDSCN0949.jpg&hash=7f522e0071c68fee871a7ed74bb8b87ebf088bc9) (http://ibb.co/jUbo25)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fmc7NUk%2FDSCN0931.jpg&hash=e30aa2095bc32b83e25066785e2624b20bbedfbd) (http://ibb.co/nAiwpk)It says "Ba
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Also wondering if I should order a .390 mold, or a .395? Thanks in advance for any info/help ya'll can give.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fdsdkh5%2FDSCN0928.jpg&hash=0b1ab99805c077d4b02809c614ca2e3a433ac51d) (http://ibb.co/kSsZaQ)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fi8qRpk%2FDSCN0933.jpg&hash=66e2f040f41e2a011f4d14bbb60349a2aa7a4971) (http://ibb.co/gxf4aQ)
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;) ;)... Wow... Don't know that builder, however, he's @!*% good at it... !!! ... nice rifle ..... I don't have any round balls for .40 cal, but if anyone here does, I'm sure they wouldn't mind sending you a dozen of each to experiment with .....contact him by messenger, boys & help him out.....THIS is a good site...lot of GOOD advice here.....Welcome aboard, Pilgrim .... !!!
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Before you order any molds, I'd buy one box each of .390 and .395 balls and a variety of different patch thicknesses to try out. Ultimately, the .395's will be the most accurate if your rifling is such that you can load them without tearing the patches. You will have to make sure that the muzzle doesn't have a sharp transition into the rifling, which will cut a tight load. There are ways to solve that.
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Thanks.
About all I've been able to find out about him so far came from this site posted by smokinbuck on 2/6/15 when he posted:
"Robb,
I have a little half stock rifle that Dave Taylor built for himself. Taylor was from, and worked, in Little Hocking, Ohio in Washington County until his death in the 1960's, he was born in 1887. Taylor was a prolific barrel maker and I have his rifle which is a small half stock with one of his own .38 caliber barrels. The barrel on this rifle is 35"X13/16" with a german silver under rib, which was one of his trademarks. Hardware is brass with double set triggers and what appears to be a Golcher percussion lock and both open and peep sights. The rifle is in the same condition as the day he made it and was acquired after his death by a mutual friend of his and myself from whom I later acquired it. I realize this isn't an early, fancy or important piece of history but it relates to a period in Ohio that is gone. I can't post but would be glad to send a few pictures if you want.
Mark"
Mine has a 42" barrel (43 1/8" from tang screw to muzzle).
I'm thinking that I can probably make do with a .390 mold and just play with the patch thickness to get it snug easier than I can get it thin enough if .395 is borderline too snug. I'm likely to just go with a cheap Lee mold anyway. Of course, I don't know that either will drop a ball the advertised diameter since nothing Lee I've ever cast with has done so....but at least they're cheap.
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Looks to me like an old Russ Hamm lock from the 60's or 70's.
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Had never heard of Russ Hamm. I see in some online pics that there are similarities to the Hamm lock, but I also believe every one of those I have found a pic of have distinct differences from mine in the location of the two "pins" or protrusions right behind the hammer.
I'm under the impression that he built this rifle before he passed in his 70's or 80's in the 1960's...but I honestly know next to nothing about it. I'll defer those who likely know more than I.
I held off on ordering a mold and chose to pick up a $10 box of .395 Hornady balls for now. I'll shoot it some and decide on a mold once I know more what it does with those.
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WOW! He was incredibly good for that period in time. I never heard of him though.
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After you've loaded and fired a good number of both .390" and .395" ball, you should have your answer. That's when you can buy a mold. That is a great looking rifle.
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Thanks.
About all I've been able to find out about him so far came from this site posted by smokinbuck on 2/6/15 when he posted:
"Robb,
I have a little half stock rifle that Dave Taylor built for himself. Taylor was from, and worked, in Little Hocking, Ohio in Washington County until his death in the 1960's, he was born in 1887. Taylor was a prolific barrel maker and I have his rifle which is a small half stock with one of his own .38 caliber barrels. The barrel on this rifle is 35"X13/16" with a german silver under rib, which was one of his trademarks. Hardware is brass with double set triggers and what appears to be a Golcher percussion lock and both open and peep sights. The rifle is in the same condition as the day he made it and was acquired after his death by a mutual friend of his and myself from whom I later acquired it. I realize this isn't an early, fancy or important piece of history but it relates to a period in Ohio that is gone. I can't post but would be glad to send a few pictures if you want.
Mark"
Mine has a 42" barrel (43 1/8" from tang screw to muzzle).
I'm thinking that I can probably make do with a .390 mold and just play with the patch thickness to get it snug easier than I can get it thin enough if .395 is borderline too snug. I'm likely to just go with a cheap Lee mold anyway. Of course, I don't know that either will drop a ball the advertised diameter since nothing Lee I've ever cast with has done so....but at least they're cheap.
The info about Dave Taylor is accurate. He made a lot of barrels and had a good reputation.
He was older than Bill Large who lived until 1985 and died on 23 September of that year.
I don't think that is a Hamm lock but taking it off and sending pictures of it might clear that
puzzle up.
Bob Roller
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I'm $650-ish into it.
The big question....(drum roll)...did I get hurt?
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I'm $650-ish into it.
The big question....(drum roll)...did I get hurt?
It's your money, the only way to really get hurt spending your own money as you choose, is when it is NOT your own money-but is on "loan" from another source.
If you are happy how can "hurt" be a factor?
On the other hand, 650 barely buys a sack of parts at retail today.
But I can never speak for how much your money means to you, nor can you understand what each dollar may mean to me. That's how I feel about valuation estimations of fully unique products.
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"Did I get hurt" is an expression meaning " Would another, (more knowledgeable) person pay that much for it?"
I traded an AR I didn't really like for a Navy Arms 1860 Henry I liked a little more, then traded that one for this. I'm happy with it even if the popular opinion is that I have too much in it. I'll also be happy if it's worth more than I have in it....I'm shooting it either way.
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After you've loaded and fired a good number of both .390" and .395" ball, you should have your answer. That's when you can buy a mold. That is a great looking rifle.
Perfect
also, I'll add that I'm always going to lean toward the thicker patch/smaller ball when it will load effectively (tightly enough to prevent the need for wiping). You'll find out. Search and read and read and Search. We've discussed EVERYthing before as far as general shooting. Looks like a nice gun, and I don't know the school. Enjoy the H E double hockey sticks out of it.
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"Did I get hurt" is an expression meaning " Would another, (more knowledgeable) person pay that much for it?"
I traded an AR I didn't really like for a Navy Arms 1860 Henry I liked a little more, then traded that one for this. I'm happy with it even if the popular opinion is that I have too much in it. I'll also be happy if it's worth more than I have in it....I'm shooting it either way.
I understand the meaning and I also understand that this next coming generation (it may be an age thing or a computer age thing, but I'm seeing it more every day especially on FB groups) may be obsessed with what others think about what they spent, but I'm old enough to know that money means different things to different folks and one-off articles are JUST THAT. The perfect price and valuation can only be realized by what a willing seller and buyer agree upon.
PRODUCTION items like Twinkies have a "market value" that is fairly easy to establish because zillions per day are made and consumed. And if you have a one to sell, there's a narrow range of prices you can expect to get--depending on your location mostly.
One-offs are unique, and I'm not particularly concerned with what someone else thinks about what I did with my money.
Does that make any sense or are y'all just writing me off as the old curmudgeon with no extra dollars. I do know what a sack of parts goes for.
wp :o
ps the bore could be rotted out of that thing by some no-little shooting the P-stuff. Then...then yes, you may be in a little deep. How is the bore? That's the other issue with unique items containing facets that are not easily examined.
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Does that make any sense or are y'all just writing me off as the old curmudgeon with no extra dollars. I do know what a sack of parts goes for.
wp :o
You're not that much older than I am, so there's no generational gap in communication between someone 50-ish and someone 44 with 5 grown kids and 4 grandchildren...though you are a "northerner" to me ;D. That could be the breakdown point...lol
Just kidding. there's some good folks in Tenny-see.
The bore looks good. Rifling is sharp.
I see where you're coming from, though. I'm used to having manufactured/mass produced things and hadn't really considered the difference between appraising those kind of guns and something from a specialty, hand builder.
I will say that I turned down $700 for it from one of the "builders" I ran into on the way home with it. He was of the opinion it might be a $1000+ gun after I said no. I would have kept it if he'd offered that much...so I reckon it ain't important. I'm keeping it.
It's going to kill something this Fall.
Thanks for your response.
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You'll do fine. Maybe we get some relief before November for your load development and regulation of the sights.
I'd buy "both" sizes of ball from someone like Eddie May in GA, and a few thicknesses of patching (I like denim) and experiment with lubes and power volumes until it ALL comes together--as it shall if you keep after it.
I get my powder from Arkansas, they gleefully mail it to me. Don't fool with subs. (JUST in case you've not found out). I'd prime and charge with 3F. Others might argue, but coarser granulation has less surface area to pick up moisture and also is less likely to "leak" from the pan in hunting conditions. I prime my 54 with 2f and the deer don't seem to notice.
Souther than me is closer to the best fishing hole on this side of the planet...
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I'm new to longrifles and flintlocks, but I've been into percussion "Civil War" replicas for over 20 years. I probably haven't used a substitute for real powder since about 1999.
I cast .566 N.O.E. Pritchett Minies complete with base plugs and construct pattern correct 1855 Enfield(which end up effectively paper patched) cartridges to feed my .577 Euroarms J.P. Murray/Columbus carbine and my .577 Pedersoli P53 Enfield.
Then there's cap and ball revolvers among my favorites of all I own. I sold my South Bend Replicas Coehorn mortar and regret doing so..
Anyway....I'm going to feed this .40 Goex 3F like everything else I own...which I order in bulk from Grafs.
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I'm $650-ish into it.
The big question....(drum roll)...did I get hurt?
Not in my mind unless the barrel is trashed and even if it is Bobby Hoyt could re-rifle it for a fair price and you would have a like new barrel.
Dennis
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Hard to tell with out the gun in hand, but it looks like a $1500-$2000 gun to me. Personally I wouldn't sell it for less than $1500.
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Thanks, ya'll.
As far as I can see, the bore is in good shape I know the rifling is strong at the muzzle, and though it's harder to see down a 42" .40 cal barrel than my 24" and 39" .577's, I can see clearly the rifling down to the bottom with an LED pressed right up to the flash hole. There is quite noticeably light reflecting off the walls of the bore...so it is shiny to some degree. I need a single LED on a long wire, but I am confident from what I can see, that the bore is good to go.
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Looks to me like an old Russ Hamm lock from the 60's or 70's.
I stand corrected. I popped the lock out and it is a Hamm with the number 15 also stamped on the inside.
After talking to The Log Cabin Shop in OH, I'm pretty much convinced that this is a rifle built using a Dave Taylor barrel, but possibly built by someone else. Can't wait to shoot it and enjoy it.
Thanks again everyone for the feedback.
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Your info from Log Cabin is probably correct, Dave made a lot of barrels but few complete rifles. The few I've seen we're usually simple 1/2 stocks and most had a German silver under rib. The value of your rifle isn't based only on the barrel but the overall rifle itself. I've seen known makers rifles sell for less than a good one by an unknown maker. My Dave Taylor rifle is a .38 caliber and shoots a .375 ball with .015 patching. Most of his barrels were smaller calibers.
Mark
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Looks like a very well made rifle that has been well cared for, and a piece of "contemporary" long rifle history. I am no expert, but I say you did allright.
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Looks good but how does it shoot???
Give us a report will ya? :)
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In the August 1977 issue of Muzzle Blasts a F. G. Tilton had an article telling about Dave R.
Taylor building him a 38 cal. brass barreled half stock rifle. Just about everything on the rifle
was made of brass, rib, lock plate,trigger plate and Furniture.
Richard Henderson