AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Robin Henderson on August 02, 2017, 12:36:14 AM
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I just ran across this on another forum and was wondering if anyone around here knew anything about this. Moderator, please forgive if this is not appropriate for this forum as there is a little "modern stuff" included.
https://www.estatesales.net/TN/Germantown/38139/1628484
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Man, You aint kiddin !! That is awesome!!
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wow - lifetime collection- lifetime sale
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Amazing! How can one get more info that just the photos. It seems some sort of detail would be available...guess a call is in order.
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How can one get more info that just the photos. It seems some sort of detail would be available
This is how these are usually conducted around here. It's an "estate sale" with the address being given the day before the sale. The next morning, you get a number which dictates the order you will be allowed into the sale. The earlier your number, the better chance you have. They only let so many buyers into the sale at a time, allowing others in as some leave. Prices are fixed, but you can leave an offer and if the item doesn't sell, they will consider it. Previews generally aren't allowed. You have to be there in person or have an agent present. I doubt there will be an individual item listing as at auctions. You can bet that at 8am the day of the sale people will be already lined up around the block waiting for numbers.
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Sounds like a store not an auction. Never heard of one being ran that way. Great collection.
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Wow! I may be in Memphis that weekend. I'd like to go, just to see the rifles up close.
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Sounds like a store not an auction. Never heard of one being ran that way. Great collection.
It's not an auction. It's an estate sale. I go to these sorts of things all the time in Pennsylvania and New Jersey--there are a half dozen or so within an easy drive every weekend--and they all work exactly as T*O*F* describes.
When I first looked, I thought it was in Germantown PA. No such luck!
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I sure wish it was closer and I didn't already have plans. Some nice looking rifles there and I can only imagine the smalls he might have.
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Wow talk about a collection....!!
If I could make it. I'd be there at midnight or the day before.
Seen only one other sale like this an the line was over 3 blocks long to get in....! Oldtravler
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Wow, just wow...
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I was checking in to see if this sale had been mentioned here.
I'm considering a trip to attend, but I have to admit I've never encountered an estate sale conducted as described above. I guess this explains the reason one of the major auction houses didn't get the job, but it seems odd, an auction is more efficient for this huge number of items. That also explains the reason I couldn't find a telephone bidding number.
Fixing the prices ahead of time seems like a good method for having most of the inventory left after three days.
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Tryin' not to lean over the keyboard as I drool
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I haven't made up my mind to go or not. I'm not interested in going on a lark; if there isn't a reasonable chance of making a flintlock purchase it would not be worth the effort to me. I'm not looking to find something cheap, I can afford to play, but I am not willing to throw money at them.
It's half a day's drive, would need to go a day early to get a spot in line, and I don't know what to expect on pricing of guns? Have never been to a fixed price sale like this.
Will they be reasonably priced by someone knowledgeable (I know that's subjective) or "yea-haw Daddy's stuff is worth a fortune" priced by someone who is ignorant? Will they herd us through, or will there be time to look and handle items? Not knowing the answers leaves considerable doubt in my mind.
I would be interested in hearing what others think.
Carl
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Carl, its all those unknown considerations and more that made myself and my buddy pull out of attending. I think this approach might cost them several folks who would have attended but are throwing in the towel for the reasons you stated. Good luck to the rest of you. You can have our spot in line down the block!!
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How can one get more info that just the photos. It seems some sort of detail would be available
This is how these are usually conducted around here. It's an "estate sale" with the address being given the day before the sale. The next morning, you get a number which dictates the order you will be allowed into the sale. The earlier your number, the better chance you have. They only let so many buyers into the sale at a time, allowing others in as some leave. Prices are fixed, but you can leave an offer and if the item doesn't sell, they will consider it. Previews generally aren't allowed. You have to be there in person or have an agent present. I doubt there will be an individual item listing as at auctions. You can bet that at 8am the day of the sale people will be already lined up around the block waiting for numbers.
Even if I was rolling in collection-building dollars, I don't think I'd attend such an event. The sheer number of items and attendees will likely negate any real bargains and maximize disappointment. Fixed pricing, cattle-call preview. Not me. Even though it's only 4 hours away (assuming perfect traffic).
I HOPE they all get into the hands of folks who understand preservation and sharing.
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I live about five hours from the sale and was considering going. Then I looked at the pictures again and tried to see if I could see any of the prices. The one price I found was for a North Model 1819 flint pistol. I was $3750. They can't bring a bid of $1500 on gunbroker. If all the prices are like that then it would be useless to go.
Al
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Awesome collection!! Like others here , I don`t want to risk a few hour drive and , a few hours wait in line . Only to find out that they are wanting a war pension for something. I prefer an auction, if there is little interest ,you can pick up a deal , but, I`ve seen bidding wars fetch some outlandish prices also.
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Evidently the owner of this collection has done this before, sold everything off and started over. I'm not saying that's what's going on here, because I don't know. Obviously, the owner is very well known, has a good eye, has the funds, etc.
So true, if you think your gonna offer up $125 bucks for a $5000 rifle, you'll no doubt be disappointed... On the other hand, most antique prices are currently on the low side.
John
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Typically, prices are cheap at estate sales and everybody is happy with the procedure. It is standard. I was at one this morning in New Jersey that worked exactly like this and got exactly what I wanted (some copper pots: saw the things in the pictures posted ahead of time) at a terrific price.
If the owner or the estate sale company has overpriced the items--as may be the case, given what debnal wrote--it won't be a successful event for anybody. But if the prices are good, it'll be successful for everybody, especially the folks who do show up early, wait in line, etc.
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They will post high prices for the first day then cut price by 20% on second day then go to 50% off final day. On some items they will put out bidding sheets.
That's the way it usually goes here at our sales like this. I have been to several here in Memphis that were run this way. The folks that don't know any better pay way more for items the first day than they are really worth. Guns that aren't sold go to local gun shop and sold.
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You can bet that Dixie Gun Works will be there buying big and there are also a lot of Civil War collectors in the area who have deep pockets and know the variants and values.
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If I was within a 6 Hour drive and they had put up some good pictures of the Kentucky's where I can actually see the engraving and condition I'm sure something there would have peaked my interest. A collection like that should've had a catalog with decent photos. There were a couple WestMoreland County looking guns that I might have Gone for. Maybe they'll have a secondary auction.
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[quote author=Shreckmeister There were a couple WestMoreland County looking guns that I might have Gone for. Maybe they'll have a secondary auction.
Rob, Maybe you can buy them from the person who buys them. I'm sure the mark up will be reasonable.
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Just hope someone attends and reports back on what everyone else missed.
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I'm in Memphis visiting my son. Looked at the guns Friday. Some nice ones, priced high. Too much for me even at half price.
A nice Dickart but looked like a new lock. A flint pistol with a very long barrel. Couple nice BB muskets, couple Charlie's.
Glad I looked but I think he already sold the best of his collection. The owner was there. Nice guy.
Z
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So then, it was not an "auction" as billed but more of a "tag sale" with items priced by the seller or owner. I'd call that somewhat misleading.
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It was not billed as an "auction" at all, as many of the previous posts in this thread made clear. An "estate sale" is not an "auction," a word that the listing never used. Where did you get that idea?
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So then, it was not an "auction" as billed
Don't you read the other replies? Several explained what it was and it was "never" billed as an auction.
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Many comments on the "event" by many people without first hand knowledge of exactly what would transpire including your "veracity: comment. In reading the actual link it was billed as a "sale", an "estate" sale as I recall. So, punish me on great one!
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Could anyone here who happened to go, give a hint as to how many people (buyers) were there? I suppose this will be a big day, maybe with some price mark downs, maybe not.
And maybe I need to up my reading compression, but I never saw the words, 'Auction, Cheap, Inexpensive, Sold below value', etc, anywhere in the advertisement for this sale.
John
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I haven't gone back to the sale yet, but when I was there Friday, I didn't see any serious gun people there. The owner and sale company people were answering questions of people who didn't seem to know about muzzleloaders. Many of the comments of the sales people were exaggerated and vague claims as to the rarity and value of the guns. I heard the statement that this was the "longest barrel, only one in existence, one of three known, best example,etc. In the word."
I'll check in Monday and see if there are any bargains.
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Sound s like used car salesmen.
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That's an insult to a used car salesperson.!! Sounds more like a door to door home improvement salesman or one of those roving driveway sealer guys OR better yet, the guy with the freezer in the truck who is overstocked with prime beef that a customer could not pay for and he's selling in for "pennies on the dollar" 'cause he cannot return it to the wholesaler!
Never really considered attending, fortunately.
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It is unusual (in my experience) that the owner would be there, along with the estate sale people. If the owner was there, I am sure that he set the prices (also unusual).
Would be interesting to know what happened to the inventory, if there were no serious gun folks there and, I would guess, few people who would be willing to pay what the owner was asking for those guns.
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Many of the comments of the sales people were exaggerated and vague claims as to the rarity and value of the guns.
I heard the statement that this was the "longest barrel, only one in existence, one of three known, best example, etc."
I'll check in Monday and see if there are any bargains.
I wonder if you ever went back on Monday, okawbow?
Also, looking at the pictures of the items for sale, its obvious that this was no nickel and dime collection. So are you sure the 'exaggerated' claims are really exaggerations?
Do you know for sure, for a fact, that the items described as "longest barrel, only one in existence, one of three known, best example, etc" aren't as described, and in fact are being falsely described?
Curious, John
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Maybe it works for the seller. Seems most here were too busy with other things or too broke to risk disappointment.
I must admit that I've never been to an "Estate Sale" that wasn't in-fact an auction. But I saw right off that this was not a genuine gavel-pounding, thrills and chills, real deal auction.
Seems most like a "best offer" or no sale situation where maybe the seller was able to retain whatever didn't bring his price. IOW how many of these guns were in the previous "estate sale". How many units does he have to move to satisfy the sales company? Yeah- I don't do the "permanent" yard-sale folks either.
I would be most interested to hear more from anyone who attended. I did surely think that we'd have more participation from the collectors and the curious in this group. I would have attended out of curiosity and potential for learning from guns I haven't seen before-if it had been somewhat closer.
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I must admit that I've never been to an "Estate Sale" that wasn't in-fact an auction.
Those are usually sponsored by the heirs of a dead collector who just want to dispose of the assets so the will can be probated. However, a person doesn't have to be dead for a "conducted estate sale." There are many reasons for having one: age, infirmities, downsizing and moving, etc. As a serious collector, he alone knows what his stuff is worth as those guys usually keep very good records.
Auctions around here are usually very casual and stuff sells for pennies on the dollar. I attended one of a woodworker's estate. I got an unused $600 planer for $75. At another, the dead guy was a tool freak. I bought a new, unused Miller mig welder, cart, and 6 spools of wire for $150. The guy had the largest roll around tool box with 2 side hangers completely stuffed with brand new tools. There was easily $20-30K worth of tools. The auctioneer asked how he should sell it, as a whole or as individual tool sets. You know what the answer was and the whole works went for only $3500. Buyers do not have to pay a "buyer's fee" and the seller gives a percentage of the gross to the company conducting the sale. The reason the owner was there was to make on the spot decisions for any offers made. You will always get more from an estate sale than you will from an auction and you still have the option to consign what's left to someone like Rock Island, or other big auction companies.
Everyone has concentrated on longrifles in this discussion. There is very little interest in them in this area. However, there are many Civil War buffs and I would suspect those items were the big draw in this sale. Also, I noted the amount of pistols. Memphis gunmakers were known f0r their derringers and coat pistols. Large quantities of them were sold because of the Mississippi river traffic to travelers and gamblers from St. Louis down to New Orleans. I would bet that the owner had several of them in his collection. This sale wasn't just about longrifles.
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I did go back Monday afternoon. Had to wait over 45 minutes just to get in. Most of the guns were still there. I talked to a man who bought 2 bag and horn sets. He was happy about them. I didn't like the looks of the horns when I saw them. Looked too nice.
There may well have been rare guns there, but I diddnt see anything special. Some of the guns had sold tags on them. Mostly the modern stuff.
The owner was there Monday talking it up with everyone. I bought 2 sailing books and had to wait 30 minutes in line to pay for them. One guy had a bronze hand cannon with a broom handle stuck in the end. Looked suspicious to me.
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I must admit that I've never been to an "Estate Sale" that wasn't in-fact an auction.
I hadn't either until I ran into a local guy that used to attend our Longrifle show in Williamsburg VA. His business was estate liquidation. He would take over an entire estate, real estate and all others items (not sure if he bought the entire estate or worked on a commission basis) but his approach was to hold a 4 or 5 day sale where he and his staff would be there to answer questions, take money etc. Everything was tagged with a sales price. If you saw something that you were interested in buying but didn't want to pay the marked price you would fill out a form with your top price and leave it with the guy running the sale. He would contact you later if he decided to sell it for your price. I didn't like the way it was run but evidently other folks did because he had huge turnouts and people seemed to be buying most of the items there.
I know that he often had a few antique guns that he would auction off later and some he bought for himself.
Dennis
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Dennis: exactly. You describe it exactly.
Totally unlike an auction: items are priced (usually very cheaply). You like the price, you buy it. If it's still there on the last day of the sale, the company running the sale will usually lower the price further. No competition--except to get in the door. Long lines usually.
I get notified about a dozen of these near my house each weekend. You can check out those near yours, too:
https://www.estatesale.com/