AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Dennis Glazener on October 03, 2017, 07:30:42 PM
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I currently use one of those push type priming tools.You fill the chamber with 4F replace the head and when you push the tip it supposedly drops the proper priming charge. I usually end up pushing the tip 3 or 4 times to fill the pan. I am not real crazy about this set-up for several reasons but am not sure what works better. I have occasionally primed from my horn but have not been happy with that since I usually end up either under filling or over filling the pan. I have not tried a small priming horn but I would think I would have the same problem with it as with my regular powder horn.
Curious to know how others prime their flintlocks, would love to hear what you think is the best way.
Dennis
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Dennis,
Like anything else, what you're comfortable with is what you should do. I have the primer you describe and a small horn with a similar tip. I also have a small horn with no tip, just a small hole in the spout. I'm certain others will have more and different ways to prime.
Mark
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Most times when shooting at targets,etc. I use one of those push primers with Null B, sometimes when I'm hunting too. I also use 3f at times when hunting in one of those commercial primers that has a sliding barrel over an inside tube and the 3f goes through that ok.
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I do a messy job of priming with a priming horn. I've primed from main horn but it's so fat it's not very easy.
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Several years ago I made myself a priming horn that holds quite a bit of 4F BP. I had bought a brass push tip dispenser from some place and utilized it on the spout end of my little horn. It works very well with just a single plunge of the tip.
The only down side to the brass tip is that every now and then the soft nozzle gets a little distorted from the pressure put on it on the hard steel of the pan and I have to take a small round steel ice pic and re-round it.
I will try and get a picture of my set up in the next day or so. I also put a screw knob on the base plug of this small horn and it unscrews to a large opening for filling purposes. I have only had to refill it a couple of times over the years.
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I have been thinking about this but have never seen anyone do it so there must be drawbacks. Why couldn't one make a container with a tight closing lid (could be made out of horn, tin, brass etc) that could hold priming powder and then make a small brass/tin measure with a handle (similar to a very small powder measure) then use this to measure out an exact primer charge.
It may or may not be period correct but it looks like it would work well as long as the cover could be trusted to stay on except when you need to prime.
Dennis
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I think you could make that work but it would involve more steps in the loading process. I would rather be a messy loader and use the priming gizmo that I use. It's much faster I think for me.
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I use one ☝️ f these but Brown.
http://www.logcabinshop.com/oc30/image/catalog/391495.jpg
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I have been thinking about this but have never seen anyone do it so there must be drawbacks. Why couldn't one make a container with a tight closing lid (could be made out of horn, tin, brass etc) that could hold priming powder and then make a small brass/tin measure with a handle (similar to a very small powder measure) then use this to measure out an exact primer charge.
It may or may not be period correct but it looks like it would work well as long as the cover could be trusted to stay on except when you need to prime.
Dennis
I've toyed with a similar idea in my head. I was think of hollowing out an antler tip to hold 30-50 grains of prime and making a turned wood plug with a little recession on the top to measure. I currently use a small glass vile with a cork and eyeball it. I've thought of stitching a buckskin cover to protect it or keep all the glass together if it got broke.
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I prime out of my horn, but in my past I used priming horns of all sorts. I personally dislike the little spring loaded priming valves. In the moist air of the Northwest they collect a ball of powder on the end that is like having a fuse on your priming horn. More than one has gone off while hanging around the shooters neck. When I hunt with my trade gun, or rifle, I prime with a small copper pistol flask, if I choose not to prime from my horn.
Hungry Horse
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I have two of the little brass push primers that work with 4F. I use these at the range and sometimes when hunting. I also have a nice primer made from a deer leg bone that was gifted to me by a member of another forum. I've used that one out in the bush as well. It's actually rather tiny and not large as the photo might suggest.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2Fb2gFVb%2F5ef46249_8073_452f_92b6_4aaa8c3949d2_zpsa430a117.jpg&hash=804898abcadff1db3c23182ca90aafa16dd4ef08) (http://ibb.co/dDsdiw)
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I use one of these. Made by Ken Netting
(https://preview.ibb.co/n1xVQF/010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kTNx5F)
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I have a couple of those brass primers with the spring loaded tip. There are 2 sizes and the larger throws twice as much as the smaller. Both work with ffffg, but not with fffg.
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I use the FFFg in my regular powderhorn, restricting the flow with my index finger to fill the pan.
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haven't used this in years. prime from the main horn now.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2Fd34Ntw%2F1507074803719.jpg&hash=3131fee4d08debc4069deab017dcc1ee2c8e54d5) (http://imgbb.com/)
easy to make
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I have used several of these over the past 10-15 years. One in each shooting bag.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vb_Yo_ELC48/SJ7KhcTm2PI/AAAAAAAAEdM/OFJZUTjq7HI/s1600-h/DSCN9878_Odle_priming.jpg
other pictures.
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2008/08/whats-in-your-bag-art-riser.html
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I prime from my main horn, pan full-shake a little off, maybe a little more. done. 2F with the 54. Simpleton eh?
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Dennis,
I'm using the same type of priming tool you are. I have the "smaller" size. I've found that holding the tip down in the pan for just a second or two allows the little spring loaded tube to fill with my priming mixture so that when I lift it, I get just about the right amount of "fullness" that I want. Just pushing and releasing quickly doesn't give the end tube time to fill and I have to push and release several times to get it right.
I'm shooting in Florida and find it necessary to wipe my pan between shots. If I don't, I will have a little puddle of black soup in the pan when I prime. That's a function of humidity.
I'm priming with a 50/50 mix of 4f Goex and Null B. Straight Null B is too humidity sensitive in my experience for a lot of the time down here.
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I'm shooting in Florida and find it necessary to wipe my pan between shots. If I don't, I will have a little puddle of black soup in the pan when I prime. That's a function of humidity.
I'm priming with a 50/50 mix of 4f Goex and Null B. Straight Null B is too humidity sensitive in my experience for a lot of the time down here.
Thanks,
I have the same humidity problem here in VA. Am using Goes 4F. You saved me some money buying a can of Null B! I thought someone said with Null B you didn't get the soup.
Thanks
Dennis
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Great thread with some really neat stuff. Stuff rules.
For years everytime I stepped out into the woods the only modern thing I ever tolerated ( besides powdered creamer for morning coffee which is more important to me than my party affiliation) was this little stupid primer with the brass spring valve.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2FcOTVfb%2Fprimers.jpg&hash=4692631dbd87b60007d3c3fc05bb48a97bbeb4a9) (http://ibb.co/nJcdYw)
The guy on the top is the original I bought from Dixie and scrimshawed in a feeble attempt to make it look better.
The guy on the bottom is what I did by ripping the valve setup off one from Dixons. After drilling out the antler I poxied the top section of one of those wooden shot pouch nozzles you can buy. I put the valve on the plug so it could be removed for easy filling with 4f or even 3f.
That valve has never failed to dump the right amount of priming everytime.
Being somewhere in between a Stitch Nazi and an..."If they'd a haddit, they'd a used it"...Nerd I never thought twice about using it.
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(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FdssOGG%2FFowler_5.jpg&hash=71a040b73282cee91794533211bc76d6656220af) (http://ibb.co/gTvM3w)
I use a little flat priming horn made by "Sparks" Mumma.....cool little horn with a hide "repair" . Nice curve and easy to tap whatever I need into the pan.
I prime pretty much every time with Swiss 4F unless it's REALLY damp out in which case I will just prime with 3F out of the main horn.
No concern for a precise amount....none of my guns are picky. Just fill em, tap level and snap em shut. If I over shoot just brush a little off.
No stress ;) ;D
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At the range , or , if carrying cartridges when hunting, I use a small priming horn with 4 F powder. I carry paper cartridges when hunting, so just have the priming horn in my pocket. If using a rifle and patched ball when hunting , I just prime from my main horn....2F or 3 F , whatever I'm carrying.
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I prime from my main horn mostly. FF or FFF depends on whats in there at the time.
But I have a small push spout priming horn with FFFF handy in my bag just in case of chronic misfires. I rarely need it.
K
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I have small priming horn I made years ago. Sometimes I just prime from my main horn tho. Chamber's locks spark so good I have been successful with 3 and 2 F in the pan.
Cory Joe Stewart
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Priming- when your little 4F priming cow horn runs out, you use your big 3F cow horn - then dump the excess out of the pan. Both horns use wooden plugs. I stopped using the brass hand-grenade priming horns some years back.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv638%2FDarylS%2F58%2520Kodiak%2520Refinish%2Fth_Movie-LoadingandShooting_zpsa177c1af.mp4&hash=a90b5ece3eb7a877c815f16f74ded5a2cb7f1e56) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DarylS/58%20Kodiak%20Refinish/Movie-LoadingandShooting_zpsa177c1af.mp4)
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I can verify that if the humidity is very high, the brass spring primers sure do plug up. In those cases the little leg bone primer shines.
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That eventually happened to mine, about the same time the spring gave up the ghost, so I switched to tapered wooden plugs I can pull out of the horn & hold with my teeth, prime then reinsert in the horn quite easily. A longer than normal 'internal stem' on the plug helps to align it back onto the little priming horn.
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haven't used this in years. prime from the main horn now.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2Fd34Ntw%2F1507074803719.jpg&hash=3131fee4d08debc4069deab017dcc1ee2c8e54d5) (http://imgbb.com/)
easy to make
Mark,
I like that one, how well did it work? I have some Dogwood (tight smooth grain) that would work well for the wooden part and I have a few pieces of large Elk horn that would work well for the reservoir. About what size holes are used?
Dennis
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I tend to look at every part of a priming horn/flask for it potential value as shrapnel. Lots of flat springs, and metal parts, give me the Willys. The old sheet copper pistol flasks were designed to vent through the solder seam if ignited. Some of these home grown flasks could easily become a hand grenade in my opinion.
Hungry Horse
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Here's a picture of the primers I currently am using. The brass 'grenade' on the left has a 1/2" hole drilled though it and covered with leather. this may be just a feel good fix but it's better than nothing, and I do not use it much. I prefer the soft wood pegs, made long enough to be withdrawn and re-inserted with the teeth. All my primers have lanyards to hang around my neck, and I find that easiest to use. The brass plunger type nozzle works pretty good here, as humidity is usually pretty low, but I have rectified that issue on this type of nozzle by soldering a short sheet brass extension to the tip, so that the opening of the tube is not shoved into the muck in the pan. Another way to use that type of primer, is to press the nozzle against the heel of the open frizzen face, allowing the prime to drop into the pan.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FkOzsdw%2F100_7464.jpg&hash=fa51b223fc06932563d54da7e5a65a08133e9fbf) (http://ibb.co/nB0LWG)
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dennis
the hole into the antler section is 5/8" x 2 1/4" deep. the walnut plug is friction fit 3/8" into the antler. drilled out with 1/4" bit with a 1" long piece of 1/4" copper tube for the spout. horn end of the plug is countersunk for powder flow. the cross pin started out as a 3/8" mulberry dowel turned down to a proud 5/16" for burnishing. the slight curve on the antler fits the hand nicely.
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dennis
the hole into the antler section is 5/8" x 2 1/4" deep. the walnut plug is friction fit 3/8" into the antler. drilled out with 1/4" bit with a 1" long piece of 1/4" copper tube for the spout. horn end of the plug is countersunk for powder flow. the cross pin started out as a 3/8" mulberry dowel turned down to a proud 5/16" for burnishing. the slight curve on the antler fits the hand nicely.
Mark,
Thanks for taking time to give me those dimensions. I want to make one of those.
Dennis
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E. Christopher Firearms Co. made a 4 dollar powder grinder, all wood that would grind about 1 table spoon at a time of 3f into fine grain or dust if you wanted. I think it was faster ignition.
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The trouble with ground powder is the dust...it sucks up water faster than brain tanned buckskin. FFFg GOEX is fine (x4) powder without the dust.
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FFFFG GOEX - no dust, fine powder works great. I did not see any difference with 3F, except maybe the speed of ignition, real (we know 4 is faster than 3) or imagined.
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glad to help dennis. i've never had it clog or get sloppy.
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I have a separate horn with 4F.Don't see the need to use one of the brass primers.If I'm in a hurry to get reloaded chasing after a squirrel I may overfill it but a quick brush with my thumb and it's good.
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The trouble with ground powder is the dust...it sucks up water faster than brain tanned buckskin. FFFg GOEX is fine (x4) powder without the dust.
Talking, the ground powder I would use for line shooting, and 3 or 4 f for hunting. Dennis did not say which in his orginal post.
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I fill this with 3f, used to fill with 4f but I thought it picked up moisture being that fine.
At the range I use one of those brass plunge valve things.
Kevin
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2FdZaKbG%2FIMG_0419.jpg&hash=33bf0d98d758d6add8e95a84e0d347b3ba31628d) (http://ibb.co/kjxXwG)
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What ever is in the horn I load with.
I have some 7f that works great of the bench really fast. but for normal offhand work what ever is in the horn.
Carney
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I started out with the little brass push-primer thingy, and 4F Goex...
then somebody here on the Forums said, "... hand grenade...", and I went, "Wait... WHAT!?!". About that time, in another thread, there was a long discussion about relative ignition speeds of the various grain sizes of Goex.
Since then, I've been using the main horn (2F Goex) for both charging and priming, and dumping any excess: haven't had an issue yet with that method. She always goes "BANG". Figured, if it worked for the oldtimers, it'd probably work OK for me.
On the other hand, I'm not a competitive target shooter, either. About the smallest group I've gotta produce is minute-of-jackrabbit.
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I use 4F the great majority of the time simply because I have a good supply of it. At the range I always drop in a fairly specific amount of either 4F or 3F. Honestly, I can tell no difference between the two since my follow-through is quite leisurely. In the bush I just dump some in and brush off the excess, if there is any. And while I use 4F there, too, I may quickly prime from the horn. Since, in hunting deer, I'm as likely to carry a few premeasured charges; A small primer goes with me filled with 4F.
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When, I began shooting flintlock pistol, I used the brass push-tip powder dispenser. Guys on the USIMLT warned me not to use it. It seems there was a match, not sure how, but apart ignited the powder in it and blew off two of his fingers. What we use now is a plastic squeeze bottle, the very small ones that are used for eye drops. As we tend to use Null-B, the powder is fine enough to be 'puffed" into the flash pan.
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When I use 4f I use this little horn made by Orville Mumma circa late 80s.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FbYsBdw%2F2017_10_12_05_53_37.jpg&hash=4ba67d17d85a9d0ac10da18c0ea02539ad1c4155) (http://ibb.co/b20KWG)
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I am functional rather than historic with my priming. I have the larger of the two typically seen brass plunger priming devices. It and a vent pick are attached to a key ring holder like a maintenance man usually carries, and clips onto my belt on my left side (for shooting left handed). There is also a strip of cloth attached to clean the pan, sop up blood from an ultra sharp flint, etc.
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Maybe not a "horn" but works very well.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/73/1/FLASK-PP-FF
After a few outings it will look 200 years old too.
No "pushing" multiple times, just hold the spring loaded button and let it flow to the level appropriate.
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That does look pretty good. I might even get one.
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I like the pick on there but might poke my eye out. I really like Taylor's idea of a neck-hung priming horn for woods walks.
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Priming- when your little 4F priming cow horn runs out, you use your big 3F cow horn - then dump the excess out of the pan. Both horns use wooden plugs. I stopped using the brass hand-grenade priming horns some years back.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv638%2FDarylS%2F58%2520Kodiak%2520Refinish%2Fth_Movie-LoadingandShooting_zpsa177c1af.mp4&hash=a90b5ece3eb7a877c815f16f74ded5a2cb7f1e56) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DarylS/58%20Kodiak%20Refinish/Movie-LoadingandShooting_zpsa177c1af.mp4)
Me too on all counts.
Dan
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This is my go to primer. The natural curve allows you to go over the top of the lock, instead of reaching around. All nice hand forged springs, and cap, with a lanyard loop.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fm0Y1Lm%2FIMG_0357.jpg&hash=a5ec005f299351f268a4097fe9ceae2a7a414e4c) (http://ibb.co/jTxT0m)
photo upload and share (http://imgbb.com/)
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Here's a picture of the primers I currently am using. The brass 'grenade' on the left has a 1/2" hole drilled though it and covered with leather. this may be just a feel good fix but it's better than nothing, and I do not use it much. I prefer the soft wood pegs, made long enough to be withdrawn and re-inserted with the teeth. All my primers have lanyards to hang around my neck, and I find that easiest to use. The brass plunger type nozzle works pretty good here, as humidity is usually pretty low, but I have rectified that issue on this type of nozzle by soldering a short sheet brass extension to the tip, so that the opening of the tube is not shoved into the muck in the pan. Another way to use that type of primer, is to press the nozzle against the heel of the open frizzen face, allowing the prime to drop into the pan.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FkOzsdw%2F100_7464.jpg&hash=fa51b223fc06932563d54da7e5a65a08133e9fbf) (http://ibb.co/nB0LWG)
Taylor, that mountain goat horn primer is cool!
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The two on the right are both mountain goat horns. The second from the right is simply burnished to remove some of the scale, but the horn is rough. It is capped with ebony and holds enough powder to shoot a 50 shot trail. the one on the right end is a polished hourn of smaller dimensions. Its curve was too great to drill in one pass, there being a considerable amount of solid horn to get through, so the maker cut the horn, drilled both pieces and glued the thing back together again with a wood spacer. I prefer primers that have a wooden peg long enough to withdraw and re-insert with the teeth.
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I use the little brass priming flasks for now but I really want to try this one out soon.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMJIaABV.jpg&hash=2477a76fc75f28f38f7367038dbac5d0505638d7)
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I have several primers, both brass flasks and horns. Recently I have stopped using all of them and found its easier just prime out of my main horn , using the same powder as my charge. It's messy, but works well for me.
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Bones,
That's a nicely shaped flask!
What's it made of?
I just prime from my main horn, 2F most times. Seems to go off as well as any other.
Good lock is the key. I Like Jim Chambers English type. Or Early Ketland. Or originals but thy too can vary.
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Dennis, I use a small cylindrical brass and copper primer that I make. I use 4fg priming powder for my smoothbore.