AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Hudnut on October 22, 2017, 01:04:01 PM
-
I'm looking for information about W&C Ogden of Oswego, NY. The gun is an over/under rifle/shotgun. Did a google search, found photos of another over/under combination, and a couple of half stocked rifles.
-
Only information I can give you is that the guns were made in Owego, NY and not Oswego. 8)
Dave
-
OGDEN, WALTER E. Owego N.Y. 1849-1870d. Also W. Ogden and Co. and W&C Ogden (Sellers)
-
Yes, Owego.
Thanks for the additional information.
Googling "Owego" made a difference...
-
As noted, the brothers Walter and Charles Ogden, as well as their elder brother Jehiel, were prolific gunmakers in Owego, NY. Numerous Over/Under guns as well as single barrel varieties made by them still exist. Their Over/Under style guns are heavy, but well built robust pieces. Interestingly the gunmaker Abe Williams worked for W&C Ogden in the mid-1860's and later took over their business. I have two identical Owego,NY marked O/U guns, with one using the W&C Ogden stamp and the other marked AW by the successor
-
I would assume that they had jigs and fixtures for making these rifles, so a successor producing rifles of the same pattern makes sense.
-
Got possession of the gun today. Takedown pin tapped out without issue. Good sign. Going to need a careful cleaning, new nipples and some TLC. Double set trigger doesn't cock, locks need attention. Will take some photos.
Edit. Broken nipples unscrewed. Scrubbed the bores, look promising. Lock screws turned out without harm, as did the ones retaining the trigger guard and double set triggers. Tumblers never had half cock notches.
-
Have had the gun apart, cleaned, inspected, studied it.
The trigger mechanism is very interesting. The set trigger only fires the rifled barrel.
Cock both hammers, do not set, first pull fires the smoothbore, second the rifle.
Cock both hammers, set the trigger, first pull fires the rifle, second the smoothbore.
Cock only the shotgun, set the trigger, the trigger snaps, hammer is not dropped. Pull again, shotgun fires.
Cock only the rifle, it can be fired either with the trigger set or unset.
I'm assuming that there are no half cock notches in order to avoid fitting of flies.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Ff3y2Fm%2F002.jpg&hash=fd72e55f38706f3c9ee933490cf26da4cee8109b) (http://ibb.co/dzWdo6)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FeJDr86%2F003.jpg&hash=d4d06b841b8e8260b6bddb7e075610683e8d871b) (http://ibb.co/mVKngR)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FcQswam%2F004.jpg&hash=4a998f13e11d544db8d1a2daa4d65ed2828d05e2) (http://ibb.co/exSUvm)
The nipples need to be replaced, and a second rod made for the rifle barrel. The folding tang sight is yet to be freed up so elevation can be adjusted. Only threaded piece that didn't turn easily.
The barrels are 34 1/2" long, muzzles are .785" and .783" in diameter. This is a heavy gun.
-
There are pictures and information in the library in the New York southern tier section. Jack
-
I am a fan of late superposed double rifles. The way the trigger on this one works sounds interesting. I don't suppose you have pictures of them. Tim
-
The trigger set is a pretty much standard double acting double set.
I think the trigger action is controlled by the relationship between the sears' tails and the trigger. There isn't any selective gear in the mechanism.
Took photos of the triggers and locks before I cleaned them.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FefycWR%2F017.jpg&hash=c8363c8e401a68dcf1fdd5190cb232ba482b59b6) (http://ibb.co/d96mQm)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FghsRQm%2F018.jpg&hash=2980cf5fc99475aaf7063c020ad32978262371f1) (http://ibb.co/eH0rrR)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fdm1WrR%2F019.jpg&hash=094eae5eb0aef46b9c745b98c1bbcbf6496baccb) (http://ibb.co/ieE6Qm)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FfM74BR%2F022.jpg&hash=c1b16403e78a7c5758b443ca95316f072d766b80) (http://ibb.co/krBmQm)
-
Really nice old superposed. Thanks for posting the pics of the locks and triggers. Tim
-
Had one of these Ogden rifles several years back.
It was silver mounted with 12 ga. over and 36 cal under!
Sold it to a guy with Ohio Long Rifle ass. who's name was "Ogden"
Wish I would had keep it along with so many other things I have sold over the years that i would like to have back :(
-
Saw an WC Ogden in the Mountan Man Museum this summer in Pinedale, WY. Was supposed to be Jim Bridgers Rifle. Thought this might be of interest to you.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FfeyQtG%2F4_C3_E9443_9_A11_419_F_943_D_02859_DB02_EF4.jpg&hash=4ffa0718ee7c974bdca6e3fa479e9e6e3f178dea) (http://ibb.co/d6OrYG)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FfJKWYG%2F34543_F8_D_BC47_45_B5_B3_EB_6_EFC2_B986_C60.jpg&hash=c6d758c53c3a9aee5f65fdca959ca82c317fb426) (http://ibb.co/hrv5tG)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fg4wdDG%2F81973123_835_B_4_E5_C_96_C4_10_D017_E4_E194.jpg&hash=77dce93f3649c80caf99f5b43148418f0e4ce950) (http://ibb.co/n7aunb)
-
Thanks!
-
Strong Bear and I live in Owego. As a teenager I was able to handle several of the rifles now in the Tioga County Museum before they went to the museum. The owner was the town clerk and had them on the wall in his office. I had heard somewhere that Jim Bridger owned an Ogden rifle, but those photos are great! Thanks for posting them.
-
The two damaged nipples were of different sizes. Rifle side was .238; smoothbore, .245. Both nipples were the older square shanked style. I assume that the left (smoothbore) nipple seat was rethreaded at one time. Have an assortment of nipples coming from Dixie, for this and other guns and to just have an inventory. I think I will be able to replace the nipples without doing any alterations to the nipple seats, or making nipples; the threads are in excellent condition. I have made nipples in the past, but doing this on a 1600lb lathe is a bit of a sledgehammer & tack situation.
I am hoping that I will be able to shoot the gun before winter sets in.
-
pp 1213 - 1227, Volume 3, L-R The New York State Firearms Trade, by H.J. Swinney, compiled by Tom Rowe. These pages cover the Ogdens.
There will never be another human being with the depth of knowledge Mr. Swinney had of New York gunmakers. I had the honor of spending some time with him discussing relations with Michigan. I wrote a book on Michigan Gunsmiths, and in 1860 about a third of our population - hence gun makers - came from New York(Thank you, DeWitt). Many gunsmith families were inter-related & he appeared to know every in-law, cousin and great-uncle and nephew involved.
-
Took the gun to the range yesterday. Given the weight and .40 rifle bore, recoil is negligible. Went to 40 grains behind a patched ball. Windage is just about perfect. Elevation depends on patching and powder charge. Will start working up loads next time.
Tried the smoothbore barrel with shot.