AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: JIM FRANCIS on November 30, 2017, 06:51:18 PM
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It all started with this plain, unmarked, perch belly Ohio rifle. She's nothing special, but this is the first longrifle I ever bought. I think I paid $100 for it. That was 50 years ago. Man, that is a hard number to grasp. A lot have come and gone over the years, but I guess I just kept this one for sentimental reasons. Anyone else still have their first one? Jim
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fjdi6jb%2F001.jpg&hash=7e04629e85e6265ceaf2c1b17ccd6edcf775b517) (http://ibb.co/b2THqG)
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(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FhYzJxw%2F011.jpg&hash=95a09c8aecdd44bf12669aed6e2423fe6da1e064) (http://ibb.co/ioQDVG)
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Nice gun.
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Here's my first one. 8 years ago. Wish I could have got it for $100 ;D
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fkm5mjb%2FDSCN0606.jpg&hash=4d20da3d416e2f57bea2ac8b960f56bee977d3be) (http://ibb.co/cvP1Hw)
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OK, I'll add my bit. The purchase of my first muzzleloader was when "It all got started" for my collection of over under percussion guns . It was a William E. Robbins .40rifle/.44 smoothbore gun that I bought from an elderly collector for $100 in 1960. In 1967, I was able to later buy a mule ear type of Robbins in .40rifle/.40 rifle for $259 from Abercrombie & Fitch Co. at the Broadmoor Hotel in Colorado Springs. That started me on a lifetime interest, and a sizable collection, of this type firearm. I keep swearing that I'm too old to be buying more of them!!!! ( but the brother of Robbins mule ear should be shipped from Cowan's auction to me in several days)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FebnKnw%2FScreen_Shot_2017_11_30_at_1_13_24_PM.png&hash=1dee2391edf9541a971a937deb876ac2d30a7619) (http://ibb.co/j0skSw)
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I got these two guns when I was 12 years old. That was over 50 years ago. We were a farming community and what we did for entertainment on Saturday nights was go visit with a neighbor. Long story short a good friend had these two tucked away in his attic. I asked him if he had any old guns and he told me he had these two. He got them out of the attic a week or two later and when we were over for a visit again I got to see them. They looked good to me even though the one was in several pieces and tied together with twine. He said he wanted seventy dollars for the pair. I didn't have but a few dollars saved but if I had all summer I would try to get the money. I picked up soda bottles along the back roads to cash in for the deposit and worked in the hay fields and digging weeds for a local tree nursery. I finally got the funds together and paid for them late in the fall of that year. I should of left the guns alone but worked on them the best a kid could. I used saw dust and glue and put the one back with a Dixie gun works lock. That made due for a while but seeing it was speckling my face whenever I shot it. I put it away for a while until I could fix it properly. Like I said that was over fifty years ago and I still have them. Others have come and gone but these two stared the fever for Hampshire county guns that I still have today.
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Thanks guys for posting your "first". Great to see the different styles that started us down this path and the stories that go with them. Jim
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Nice stories fellows, thanks for sharing. I really thought this was going to be a hot thread, maybe a lot of you are like me , started too late and paid high. :D , that doesn't make for a good story. You hear a lot of good stories at the shows from the "old collectors" oops, I mean "experienced". I always enjoying hearing them.
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Avlrc, I thought it would generate a little more interest too. It doesn't matter when you got it or what it cost. We all had to start somewhere and I enjoy hearing the stories too. I will say that I'm guilty of being an "old collector" and proud of it. LOL Regards, Jim
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Here is where I started. It's a J&S Hawken half stock rifle that I bought from a sporting goods store when I was in high school in Colorado in 1978. A very cool old rifle. The lock was marked J&S Hawken and the barrel J&S Hawken St. Louis. The wrist had been snapped and repaired with strips of iron and wrapped in rawhide. The original trigger guard was replaced presumably at the time of the break by a crude iron guard. Has anybody ever seen it? I know these are really crappy pictures, but it was the best I could do with my old polaroid, lol. Man I wish I still had it. I sold it in 1980, because I was as poor as a church mouse, but I always felt like I sold my soul to the devil.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fmgnfhw%2FScan0008_Copy.jpg&hash=ea4503f0125c69cacfca9bda766927ec01cd689c) (http://ibb.co/moVcUb)
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Here is the first one, that I still have. It's a Daniel Border Bedford rifle.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FggHZ9b%2FFancier_Rifle_14.jpg&hash=413b46d79103bcad7037c9502b624afd7ed73c54) (http://ibb.co/nsfnUb)
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Lexington1, That is a very nice rifle. Thanks for posting. I understand how you felt about selling your Hawken. I'd feel the same way if I sold my first one. Jim
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My 1st longrifle is a Tenn/VA (48" bbl) with iron patchbox & furniture, attached with nails that came from my Newspaper Route Customer, unable to pay $18.00 Paper bill. Happy 13 year old placed rifle across handlebars & hurried home to show Mother the new Prize. Narrowly avoided a whipping for such a stupid trade. Made matching Pistol borrowing the rifle lock (14yrs), parts were not available back in those days. Compounded black powder (recipe from Library) in wooden salad bowl, used #1 buckshot with patch (Percussion Caps were original Civil War period) to kill squirrels behind my house. Rifle still resides over my fireplace after 60+ years. Doug
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:o :o :o... Douglass .... you gotta post a few pictures of that gun .... Me luv'em Tennessees rifles ... !!!
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Doug, I was hoping you would share that with everyone!
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My 1st longrifle is a Tenn/VA (48" bbl) with iron patchbox & furniture, attached with nails that came from my Newspaper Route Customer, unable to pay $18.00 Paper bill. Happy 13 year old placed rifle across handlebars & hurried home to show Mother the new Prize. Narrowly avoided a whipping for such a stupid trade. Made matching Pistol borrowing the rifle lock (14yrs), parts were not available back in those days. Compounded black powder (recipe from Library) in wooden salad bowl, used #1 buckshot with patch (Percussion Caps were original Civil War period) to kill squirrels behind my house. Rifle still resides over my fireplace after 60+ years. Doug
That is a great story. That rifle almost 6 feet long across the handle bars of the bike, made me laugh. Reminded me of the crazy stories Pat McManus use to tell about him, Eddie Muldoon & Retch Swinney. Thanks for sharing.
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I found another pic of the Hawken. I'll keep looking. I know there are some others ;D
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FeLU2FG%2FScan0001.jpg&hash=928edec8776fca5b79917c80c98f287064f40c2f) (http://ibb.co/m9R4Ub)
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If anyone ever does run across this, I would love to get some better pics or possibly buy it again 8)
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:o :o :o... Wow, Lex .... an original Hawken ... !!! .... do you recall the cal. & bbl length ..? ... would be great to be "found" again ......!!!
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Lexington its got a great Western look. I hope it still has that look. That all depends who got their hands on it. The guard is a bit different. I love it .....Louie
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:o :o :o... Wow, Lex .... an original Hawken ... !!! .... do you recall the cal. & bbl length ..? ... would be great to be "found" again ......!!!
I believe the barrel was about 36" or so and ~ .52 caliber. The trigger guard was definitely different. It looks as if somebody had made a replacement out of a strip of iron.
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Here is where I started. It's a J&S Hawken half stock rifle that I bought from a sporting goods store when I was in high school in Colorado in 1978. A very cool old rifle. The lock was marked J&S Hawken and the barrel J&S Hawken St. Louis. The wrist had been snapped and repaired with strips of iron and wrapped in rawhide. The original trigger guard was replaced presumably at the time of the break by a crude iron guard. Has anybody ever seen it? I know these are really crappy pictures, but it was the best I could do with my old polaroid, lol. Man I wish I still had it. I sold it in 1980, because I was as poor as a church mouse, but I always felt like I sold my soul to the devil.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fmgnfhw%2FScan0008_Copy.jpg&hash=ea4503f0125c69cacfca9bda766927ec01cd689c) (http://ibb.co/moVcUb)
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Man I bet that one could tell a lot of stories.
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I'll bet it could. It definitely looks like it's 'seen the elephant'.
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A flintlock conversion with a left hand lock in 12 gauge which I bought 69 years ago for the sum of 7 shilling in Pound sterling ,still have it
Feltwad
Patrick of Liverpool
(https://preview.ibb.co/jZVVkG/P1010014.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ntPqkG)
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My first rifle was bought in 1974-75. It was sitting in the gun rack at a Black Powder shop in Fayetteville, NC.
The shop was run by Lew Sanchez and Buck Buchanan. The rifle is a SMR Tenn rifle with a Hadaway lock. 45 caliber.
It has one the elonquated grease holes like a few we have seen recently. Hand forged Trigger guard. Finish looks to be hand scraped. Walnut wood.
Why I have kelp the rifle all these years I don't know. I still like it as well as the day I bought it.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FjuTBsw%2FIMG_2623.jpg&hash=beb87c4f6b1ad142ee6ad1de007fe0aa0d005319) (http://ibb.co/kS4jCw)
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Iloco I wouldn't part with it either...If I was going to buy an original that would be the style I would look for...
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My first antique gun was a gift from my mother it was under the Christmas tree. She had stopped in a coin shop to buy my dad some old coins for Christmas . The owner had a 1816 Springfield musket hanging on the wall and she got it for me . Paid a hundred dollars for it in 1971.That started me on my road to ruin . My first Longrifle I no longer have . For those that have any interest in seeing it there are pictures of it in two books that I know of. "Maryland Longrifles" by Hartzler & Whisker Pg. 248 and " Accouterments III " by Jim Johnston Pg. 43 &44. It was a John Armstrong that strangely came into my hands on a Christmas day years later. When I got it I knew nothing about Kentucky's ( kind of like now) . When I researched it and found out the value it had to go. With a young family I felt a gun worth more than my house was not something I should have. Jerry Noble says I'm the only guy he knows who started at the top and worked his way down.
My third longrifle I still have . I bought it from Louie Parker around 1990. It's the John Rupp pictured below along with my Springfield musket.
Sorry for going down memory lane . It's that time of year.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fg9o39b%2FDSCN1054.jpg&hash=a2c77ad96bc7dda176aa5bb101dc2e6c04553a01) (http://ibb.co/mYsVpb)
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;) ;)... Iloco... I kinda like that buttstock profile ... unusual for a Southern rifle ....pictured is a Tennessee rifle I just had to have .... profile is almost Lehigh Valley, with the gentle curve on lower butt ... both rifles are not straight as usually seen on Tennessee-Southern guns ...... I like 'um ...... Regards, CC Fiddler ....
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Very nice guns!!
You made the right decision selling the rifle when you had a young family.
I would have done the same.
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Jim,
I was born in 1971, you're old!
Buck
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;) ;)... Iloco... I kinda like that buttstock profile ... unusual for a Southern rifle ....pictured is a Tennessee rifle I just had to have .... profile is almost Lehigh Valley, with the gentle curve on lower butt ... both rifles are not straight as usually seen on Tennessee-Southern guns ...... I like 'um ...... Regards, CC Fiddler ....
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I agree we got a couple of rifles that don't fit the mold of other rifles. I had a good friend who took pictures of my stock and was going to get an expert to look at the stock and get his opinion. Sadly he passed away and we never heard from him.
Maybe someone else can tell us about our unusual stocks.
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Jim,
I was born in 1971, you're old!
Buck
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I had to get the bargains before you came along!
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Buck, You're just a puppy. Thanks to all the guys that have replied to the post. Some great stories and nice guns. Jim
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Jim,
Touché!
Jim,
It's not the age, it's the mileage!
Buck
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I have read all of your post & appreciate you fellows sharing them. As a Johnny come lately , I don't have a good story. I think it was about 12 or 13 years ago I first heard of gunsmiths making rifles in this area in the 1800s. You guys did a good job at keeping it a secret. I think my first Hampshire county rifle was acquired on Gunbroker from the "Hurricane From Virginia. I sold that rifle a few years back. Thanks Fred for the other two you sold me a lil later. But to be honest it was James B whisker who told me about makers in this area, maybe a year or two earlier. If it was not for him, I would still be putting pre-war-Winchesters in my safes. So James, this drink is to you & I hope you have a Merry Christmas & a Happy New year.
The following is not a great story , but represents the mindset of a unrepentant collector. For several years I had envied the early percussion signed Z. Sheetz that "Douglas" on here displayed at the shows. But always seemed to be out of folding money when It was in front of me. Then at a show maybe Hodges Virginia show , "Jim Francis" had this early percussion signed R P , that looked like it must of came out of Zeb's shop. I knew I had to get one , but was torn to which it would be. I left the show without either rifle. A few weeks later I told my friend, "Homerifle " my quandary. he said "this is simple", I looked confused. He added "buy both" . So to make a long story short, I contacted both & met them at the same place & time, halfway from my home & theirs. You know I had to smoke machined rolled stogies & drink cheap whiskey for awhile, but it was worth it. Pardon my poor grammar , but where I come from reading don't mean much & writing even less, LOL.
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I'm new to this group and I'm really impressed by the knowledge of the members. I recently posted my first long gun, a fowler, and got a lot of good information. I got involved in collecting old guns by accident about 35 years ago. I found some old documents that turned out to have some value to a couple of antique dealers in the area. They also dealt in antique firearms. So we started trading documents for guns. I'm still not very knowledgeable of the guns i own, but have enjoyed owning them. I like to think about all the history of our country that they represent. My first love is period furniture making and I'm blown away by the skills these these early makers had and what they could make with basic hand tools.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fj6wzVR%2FPC080914.jpg&hash=f2ea297f46e7577b7abe3cdfcf1284abe526fd0d) (http://ibb.co/eT9KVR)
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AVLRC,
Your writing is fine.
Your rifle is beautiful.
Congrats on a nice gun.
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Avlrc, Please post photos of the "RP" rifle. I don't remember that one. Thanks, Jim
Thanks to all of you that have kept this thread going.
Merry Christmas to all and your families.
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Avlrc, Please post photos of the "RP" rifle. I don't remember that one. Thanks, Jim
Thanks to all of you that have kept this thread going.
Merry Christmas to all and your families.
Jim, it is the top two photos. Surprised you don't remember it. You and Douglas, relieved me of my paper money, LOL. I don't remember people I owe money to, but I do remember every gun I ever sold, the good , bad & the ugly. LOL
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Just didn't remember it being marked "RP''. Those were 2 fine rifles you got from Doug and me. Jim
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:o :o :o... Wow, Lex .... an original Hawken ... !!! .... do you recall the cal. & bbl length ..? ... would be great to be "found" again ......!!!
I believe the barrel was about 36" or so and ~ .52 caliber. The trigger guard was definitely different. It looks as if somebody had made a replacement out of a strip of iron.
Lex, I have a rifle I built with antique parts using a guard similar to that one,got it from a fellow selling off his dads stuff in Dallas,Texas,5 years ago. here is pic
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