AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Longwalker on December 10, 2017, 02:41:05 AM
-
Merry Christmas Folks!
I wonder if any of you can recommend a basic carving set that I could use to do some simple incise carving and some VERY simple raised carving on a Smooth rifle project I hope to start in a few weeks?
Tools that I could use with or without a mallet. Also maybe a smallish carving knife or two?
Does Rockler carry any sets that might be good for a beginner?
Any advise will be appreciated!
Harry
-
Flexcut makes a nice simple set. They are palm chisels and a little small for mallet use. Very good quality and easy to sharpen.
-
Small parting tool driven with a mallet will do both your incised and raised carving. You'll need some sort of carving knife or a flat chisel to relieve the raised carving. It's worked for me for 30+ years.
-
Pfeil chisels are the best ones that you can get.
-
This is a nice, inexpensive starter set. Power Grip Carving Tools, Seven Piece Set, $42. on Amazon. I have many more chisels and gouges now, but still use these.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2FipyS0G%2F819_XWv_Ht0f_L_AC_UL130.jpg&hash=9738b6d923cb1af0f9b8dc175c83f4d05c05dcb3) (http://imgbb.com/)
-Ron
-
Starter sets are a waste of money in my opinion. And the short chisels are another waste generally. If you are going to continue building it will only be a short while before you will want full length chisels high quality chisels. Just acquire tools as the work reveals what you need, a couple at a time. Pfieil are among the best as recommended earlier. Mike has given you a good starting point for the carving you described. I would add a 5mm skew double bevel to the essential list.
-
Mike, or anyone else...
What parting tool do you prefer? There are 45, 60, 90 and different widths.
I need a new one or 2...I prefer it to stabbing. I bought a few old used ones that I just can't seem to get sharpened just right. Figured it'd be best to start with a good new one and maintain it opposed to try to fix one that's been boogered up.
-
For V parting tools, I use a 3mm and 1mm #12 from Pfeil. You could get by with a 3 mm. I am not sure what the angle is, but I would guess it is more like 30 degrees. V parting tools need to be reground to make a nice sharp V cut. There is s thread on this site somewhere about that. Other wise you need a a skew chisel ( I use a 5mm) and a 1/4" bench chisel. You can use these from removing background. I also have a lot of gouges for stamping in designs, but I mostly use a little stamping tool ground from a piece of music wire. I would recommend making such a stamping tool or two. There should also be a thread or two on this site about that. My favorite chisels are ones that I bough used on ebay. 19th century cast steel chisels tend to take and hold an edge very well. With any chisels or knives you need a couple good diamond stones (I mostly use a course (about 300 grit) and a fine (about 600 grit)) and a leather strape charged with some Simichrome.
-
Thanx Mark!
I will have to dig around and find the stamping tool threads. I don't recall seeing those posted before.
I have started a collection of older chisels and gouges off eBay. And working on some stabbing tools as well. I seem to like running a parting tool though. Seems quicker...when it's going well. Lol. Easy to slip up. I think with more practice and better parting tools I will be able to control it though.
-
Here is one of the tutorials I have in my notes. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=28886.0;nowap
-
I would suggest a 3mm #15 gouge from Pfeil for incised carving.
-
I've been looking at this set.
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/record-power-12pc-carving-set?via=573621f469702d06760016cd%2C5763288b69702d20ec000b2e
-
I've been looking at this set.
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/record-power-12pc-carving-set?via=573621f469702d06760016cd%2C5763288b69702d20ec000b2e
Those are great looking tools but there are at least a half dozen there I’d never use.
I might use 1-3 and 7-11. I just can’t see how to use huge gouges and v chisels and such on carving less than 1/16” high. Keep in mind woodworkers are sculpting and often much more 3D than seen on Kentucky rifles.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ibb.co%2FekPApb%2FB3_F227_D3_ECF1_49_C6_8_A22_D7_BC9_ABB54_D3.jpg&hash=5a10c951404b0622aac1df429cd314b300ec9e1d) (http://imgbb.com/)
-
Wow! Thanks for all your replies. This has given me some great info. I think I agree with those who say start with just a few, 2 to 5, and I will consider your suggestions as to which ones to buy!
Thanks again to all, there is such a great wealth of knowledge and ideas here for a beginner like me, I really appreciate it!
Best site on the web!
Merry Christmas to all of you!
Harry
-
Wow! Thanks for all your replies. This has given me some great info. I think I agree with those who say start with just a few, 2 to 5, and I will consider your suggestions as to which ones to buy!
Thanks again to all, there is such a great wealth of knowledge and ideas here for a beginner like me, I really appreciate it!
Best site on the web!
Merry Christmas to all of you!
Harry
No matter what chisels you buy you will have to strop/sharpen them to get the most out of them - they ALL need some attention when received. Get some good stones/diamond plates in different coarseness (I like the diamond plates), a black surgical stone and a leather strop with a polishing compound (I like green chromium oxide as suggested by Paul Sellers blog https://paulsellers.com/2014/05/buffing-compound-for-chisels-and-plane-irons/ (https://paulsellers.com/2014/05/buffing-compound-for-chisels-and-plane-irons/))
-
Longwalker,
Sets of chisels are a total WASTE OF MONEY. You will use one or two of a 6 piece set.
Do what Mr Brooks says. V tool, skew chisel, 1/16", ⅛", ¼". These will get used the majority of the time.
I probably have 40 or 50 chisels and gouges.
Probably use 8 or 10. A few more if I stab in.
-
Pfeil chisels are the best ones that you can get.
Ditto
-
I like the full size chisels. I think the best ones to start off with are small to medium size flat chisels. I also get the matching size skews. I like the single bevel. I also use 25mm chisel and skew quite a lot. A few small to medium size gouges will got a lot of use also. I have a whole mess of different size gouges. Works great for stabbing in and inletting complex patch boxes and such. They do not see a whole lot of use, but are very nice to have when you need them. #9 gouge slightly smaller than diameter of barrel works great for inletting the barrel. Also use 90 degree v-gouge with sides about the same size as a barrel flat. Works good for inletting the corners of the barrel flats. Of course for swamped barrels that means 3 or 4 different sizes. I know, I go a bit nuts with the chisels. But thats ok. I like them!
-
I've had good luck finding chisels and gouges on eBay, usually for small money.
-
Keep the mallet away from the stock, especially if you are just starting out. I use the Pfeil # 12 1mm V gouge most of the time. Draw your lines, and then barely scratch in the first cut. If there are areas of the curve that are a little flat, or a corner that'a a little squared off, when you go back over it to deepest the cuts you can then make the necessary adjustments. This is particularly true with incise carving. With raised carving you can knock off more wood to get things to round up nicely. I often use the Pfeil # 11 1mm U-shaped gouge for cutting in the concave portion of volutes, but some times the # 5 #as well as some others) on larger or more gently shaped portions.
In addition to the Pfeil tools, I have a set of micro chisels I got from Woodcraft labeled Dockside Micro tools, that are marketed largely to modelers. Remember, in general your tools can't be too small or fine, but they can be too large or coarse.
Scrapers (like the David Fisher ones from Brownells) and pen-sized sanding sticks can be very useful in shaping the tops on raised carving.
And learn how to sharpen the stuff. A leather strop is mighty handy to refresh an edge when you feel like the chisel is starting to grab rather than cut.
-
If I can attempt to consolidate the comments made so far: 1. Buy only the tools you need for the task and your skill, and you can afford to get the best, which will last a lifetime. 2. learn how to sharpen them, so sharp, just looking at them may make you need bandaids! ;D
Bill
-
And it's easier to take away the right amount of wood and get the shape right by taking little bits at a time than it is to get it right by taking big hunks all at once.
-
Do any of you use riffler files for carving? How about mouldings?
(https://woodcraft-production-weblinc.netdna-ssl.com/product_images/riffler-file-cut-triangle/5841ca9369702d49d2000093/zoom.jpg)
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/riffler-file-cut-triangle?gclid=CjwKCAiA9rjRBRAeEiwA2SV4ZeW5u4eGAwBOxrecWUuCIL2MzghclINTylTGVM9wQmsxX1fpflIr4hoCFlAQAvD_BwE (https://www.woodcraft.com/products/riffler-file-cut-triangle?gclid=CjwKCAiA9rjRBRAeEiwA2SV4ZeW5u4eGAwBOxrecWUuCIL2MzghclINTylTGVM9wQmsxX1fpflIr4hoCFlAQAvD_BwE)
-
Yes, and a single line checkering tool like they have at Brownells too is really nice for cleaning up the bottoms of incise carving. The riffler files have too long of a heel in them to be able to follow tight incise carving curves.
-
Riffler files have their place. I use them for straightening out the incised molding on a buttstock and a tool I made from a broken pillar file for forestock moldings.
-
Regarding the skew chisels, do you recommend a single or double beveled variety? I'd like to add one to my collection.
-
I have one of each.
-
Regarding the skew chisels, do you recommend a single or double beveled variety? I'd like to add one to my collection.
I prefer single bevel skews, but I could not give you a specific reason why. They just seem to be a bit easier to use.
-
Regarding the skew chisels, do you recommend a single or double beveled variety? I'd like to add one to my collection.
I don't use either.
-
I have one of each.
Are you a salesman at Woodcraft? ;D
-
I prefer double bevel.
-
I have one of each.
Are you a salesman at Woodcraft? ;D
Nope. You did ask. ;D
-
Another suggestion if you are starting out, Check out local flea markets. Usually there is somebody selling old tools. I have bought handfuls of chisels and gouges, some of outstanding quality and never spent more than a few dollars. You will quickly get an eye for quality steel, Get a few nice quality 1/4 inch chisels, you can grind into any sort of skew chisel or dogleg chisel you can imagine. I paid 25 cents for my favorite 1/4 inch chisel, it is a Buck Brothers and I use it the most of all my tools. I have played around with others and made gouges or bull nose chisels. Then you can start adding Pfeil gouges from Woodcraft as you need them. Stay away from sets, they look like a savings but you WILL end up with tools you never use.
-
What I figured out is that as you get better at carving, you realize that it is also possible to carve things other than guns. You always hear advise to stay away from the sets because there will be a few in there that you never use. Its more accurate to say that there will be a few that you will not use very often, but be glad that you have eventually. If you are putting together a set specifically for guns then stick with the basics. Get the rest later. Those oddball ones come in handy every now and then.
-
What I figured out is that as you get better at carving, you realize that it is also possible to carve things other than guns. You always hear advise to stay away from the sets because there will be a few in there that you never use. Its more accurate to say that there will be a few that you will not use very often, but be glad that you have eventually. If you are putting together a set specifically for guns then stick with the basics. Get the rest later. Those oddball ones come in handy every now and then.
Now this is sound advise -- I have done this from the very beginning of my work back in the 60's . My dad bought me my first set of Gunline chisels in 1965 and I have added to them whenever I need something different. I have also made chisels from small files and O-1 tool steel. I think I have over 50 at this time - you can never have too many tools ;D ;)!!!
-
Spend a lot of time practicing on like wood, if the stock is maple, buy a piece of maple and carve your design in it. A piece of maple from the lumberyard is a lot cheaper than a gunstock blank. It will teach you techniques and help with muscle memory. But most importantly it will help you learn how to sharpen your chisels. What a new carver thinks is a sharp chisel, is usually a dull chisel.
I believe in buying the sets, the savings usually save enough to cover the costs of one or more of the chisels/gouges. You may not ever use the extra, but sometimes they can be repurposed by changing the shape of the grind. Over the years, I have eventually used the "extra" chisels, either as is or as a repurposed chisel.