AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Mauser06 on February 11, 2018, 04:21:56 AM
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Getting an order ready...
I've never browned anything. My current build, I'd like to age a bit...read up on the Clorox method...
I was thinking about trying to achieve something with letting a growing solution go a while...card it off, cold blue, then rub it back.
Seems different Browning solutions work differently. Not sure which one would work best for this to develop a believable patina...
Or...if anyone has other suggestions on aging steel (and brass for that matter) I'm all ears. Some builders can absolutely nail it. Other attempts can be spotted easily.
I'd leave it develop it's own patina...but being a turkey gun, I want it done just so I don't have shiney brass and steel in the woods to be spotted by ole split toe Tom.
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I am trying to brown a barrel and lock right now. It is frustrating. The dew point right now is -8 degrees. The air so dry I cannot get anything to rust. So I got it in the downstairs bathroom and every couple hours I run the shower on hot until the mirror fogs over. It takes a full day to get any rust on it at all. It is working, but going really slow. I am using the stuff that Track of the Wolf sells. It has worked great in the past. I have not tried aging it.
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I figured winter would be tough. I was going to do just that...hang it in the bathroom. Lol. I don't particularly care for Browning so I'm not looking to make a dedicated setup.
Just not sure which solution will produce the results I want of light to mild pitting. Figured the pitting will capture some of the cold blue and give it a little darker look than just running back cold blue itself.
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When I built my turkey rifle I browned it to a dark chocolate brown. Stained the stock dark too. Purpose first. Gobblers have sharp eyes. The more you handle it, shoot it, hunt with it and use it, the faster it will develop a patina of it's own.
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I like Homer Dangler's browning solution the best. Laurel Mt works fast but is hard to stop. If you boil your browned parts you will get a near black finish with no need for a cold blue. It will give you a real nice patina.
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This was rust blued with Wahkon bay true brown then steel wooled until almost smooth
(https://image.ibb.co/eqN9Ww/image.jpg)
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Danger is the best in my opinion
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This was rust blued with Wahkon bay true brown then steel wooled until almost smooth
(https://image.ibb.co/eqN9Ww/image.jpg)
Must be a magic elixir. If I use it will my builds look that good?
Just kidding, wish you’d show us that build sometime.
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Rich, I will try to do that soon. I am still having some issues with the new image posting. Guess I will just have to suffer through it.
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Flinchrocket, that looks like a sneak peak of a great looking rifle.
I just blued my last build. Just not what I'm looking for on this one.
Many of Allen Martin's guns have the look I'd like to achieve. Almost a kinda textured darker gray. Don't know how Allen does it.
I was thinking letting a browning solution go heavily and then hitting it with a cold blue and running it back a bit just might achieve what I'm looking for..
Tracks browning solution directions actually mention for pitting and texture to not card at all..so maybe I will add a bottle and try it on some scrap.
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I don't think track carrys the Wahkon Bay brown, but it is acid based. I think their brand is acid based also and should make it pit if you leave it a couple weeks. Of course winter time is the worst time to finish metal without some sort of browning cabinet. The rust blue will also have a gray look just before
it's completely taken off, but it is a blue gray not dark gray.
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I am ordering from Track... I will try it and see what happens. I have plenty of un-used spaces in my house and a humidifier...I can figure something out.
If I don't like the finished product on the gun I can always draw file and start over.
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06 You mentioned Clorox method and here is what worked for me. BBl lay out a trash bag or 2 depending on bbl 42-44 ect long. Plug the bore and touch hole. Take paper towels wet soaked and wrap the bbl and then wrap it in trash bags. Check every 2 hrs or so until you get this sorted out. Don,t do this and check next week!
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Thanx Joe!
I am going to test a few things and see what produces what.
I think I just need a little etching/pitting to get what I am looking for with the rubbed back cold blue afterwards. Just enough to capture the cold blue better. Not looking for a heavier aged piece...just something that looks well used and cared for...
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An oldtimer once told me to plug both ends and bury it in fresh horse manure. I don't have horses so I never tried it. I suspect that would give you a patina. ;) ;) ;)
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Mauser
Mr Martin's secret formula...... you had the general idea, here's how it works.
First of all, pretty labor intensive, AND, you'll need a sweat box, or the like for humidity.
Anyway, brown without carding, till way beyond where you would normally go. Reapply solution every 6 to 12 hours.
Here's the hard part....., sand all the browning off, leaving the pits.
Cold blue everything, then rub back with Skotchbrite pad and your favorite preservative. I use Breakfree CLP.
Gives a nice patina.
I should add, ..... round off the edges of the barrel flats. Looks silly to have an aged patina, on a crisp edged barrel.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FcSNrJ7%2FIMG_0333.jpg&hash=543da4464468760a7af512c34998c523ba4d6496) (http://ibb.co/dU5YWS)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FeoOyy7%2FIMG_0340.jpg&hash=6c29046082ada8dca83861d4d3c9f1afedc8858b) (http://ibb.co/dYx2Qn)
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This is my favorite metal finish- a few coats of LMF browning, buffed back to remove color but leave "tooth" then put in a damp box with 44/40 cold blue. Neutralize and buff back with grey scubbie and ballistol.
Kevin
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fduf8WS%2FIMG_0385_1.jpg&hash=23697c0c565f5888286fecff5451a02a41bc7dce) (http://ibb.co/jpbRJ7)
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.....well. I was on the right track!
Appreciate you sharing. I try not to pry to hard for finishing info especially from guys like Allen and those who make a living selling guns and have a specific look they achieve.
I feel they deserve to keep those "trade secrets" as they likely worked hard to achieve them. Probably ruined some otherwise good pieces experimenting. Takes some guts to let a $250 barrel hang and rust to all heck and take a can of black paint to a stock you spent countless hours working on.
Figured now that I'm on my 2nd build, I need to start working on some of my own techniques to get the looks I personally like.
Burnt, that's another great example of a look I love. That is actually very believable natural patina. I never finished a frizzen on my last build and it has the same kinda look.
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Dangler's browning boiled and scrubbed back.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FjQXN87%2FDSCN2828.jpg&hash=1b44acd6f5a3152cedc7e320b6989918d6b1a9dc) (http://ibb.co/cy0W1S)
best image hosting website (http://imgbb.com/)
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There is also using aqua fortis and then boiling the piece of metal. It works very well and is controllable. Meaning, if it's not dark enough, just reapply, then boil again. As many times as needed. Then neutralize.
The reason I like this the best is, it doesn't copper plate if you apply or rub to much.
It does take some time to do though this time of year. I spent 2 weeks rusting a barrel. After boiling it came out a very nice blueish grey. Initially I wanted darker, but after 2 years of ageing it has turned blueish black and I couldn't be happier. I also helped that ageing process also, by using a used cleaning patch on the barrel.
A wet, bp fouled patch works well to add age.
Good luck.
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Little Joe,
What is BBI. Not familiar with that acronym. Thanks.
smallpatch,
Do you know if Allen uses any special browning solution? Also when carding the barrel back after browning/ rusting in the sweat box, what grit of paper or Scotchbrite color works best to gradually card bac the rust? Thanks.
elkhorne
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Browning box made easy - split a piece of 4 inch PVC lengthwise, screw a couple wood feet on one half. Also drill a couple small holes cross wise for support wires to lay the barrel on. Place damp damp towel material in the bottom, lay parts on wires and put the other barrel half on as a cover. Set it where it will get some sunshine or heat on the whole thing. Works for me in AZ and humidity is very low here most of the year. I used Dangler's solution and carded it back with a green scotchbrite from the kitchen supply about every 8 hours and remoistened the toweling.
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I used Laurel Mountain Forge Browning Solution to Rust Blue my barrel recently. I built a damp box because the temperature and humidity in my workshop were too low right now. If you have a copy of Gunsmithing Tips and Projects, you'll find an article from John Bivins with plans and his experience with a damp box.
I used two light bulbs in mine on a dimmer but I only needed a 150w bulb in the bottom chamber (as opposed to a hot plate as used by Bivins).
My first application of LMF Browning solution was on for about 8 hours in 75 degrees and 75% humidity. All subsequent treatments were about 3 to 4 hours only. I didn't get a super smooth finish like a store bought rifle but I like the way it looks.
(https://image.ibb.co/m3todm/IMG_20180203_204002.jpg)
You can't tell there but there are some spots where it isn't as uniform. It looks like metal that's been in a fire.
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An oldtimer once told me to plug both ends and bury it in fresh horse manure. I don't have horses so I never tried it. I suspect that would give you a patina. ;) ;) ;)
Hi,
I'm not too sure about patina, BUT I will guarantee you will remember your process every time you bring your rifle to point, especially on a wet humid day ::) ;)
Have a great day! Eh?
Fred
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Mauser06 - I would stay well away from the Clorox - hairy danger, especially for bores.
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Thanx all! Plenty of ideas and some beautiful rifles!
Daryl, that's why I am leaning away from Clorox. Just a bit too aggressive and not as controllable.
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Little Joe,
What is BBI. Not familiar with that acronym. Thanks.
I'm no Little Joe, but when I use "BBL" or "bbl" I'm referring to a gun or wine or whiskey barrel.
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Living in southern California, the humidity is not often conducive to browning. I didn't have room for a wooden damp box, so I use a disposable cardboard box. Here is a link to an old post:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=21382.msg203054#msg203054
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Mauser,
I use LMF, or Dangler. Both work very well with a sweat box.
You don't card back. When you're satisfied with the browning/pitting, you sand it all off. Leaving just the pitting. I use 220 grit to get rid of the browning.
I use gray or maroon Skotchbrite after bluing with Breakfree CLP to set/preserve the finish.
Beware of getting metal too shiny. It takes the chemical better if metal isn't polished.
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Thanx guys!
Great info as usual!!
I didn't plan to take my metal to a polish. Have it filed to clean it up...I will hit it with paper to take out major file marks and call it good. On this build and the finish I want, I don't want it to look perfect. Never understood why some builders will do an aged finish but everything is perfect and Sharp. Like someone mentioned, barrel flats...flats on the pipes and buttplate return etc shouldn't be crisp and clean.
A couple file marks, marks in the wood from scraping etc just give it character and show it was built by human hands. My hands and eyes sure aren't perfect.
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I rarely go past 150 grit if I'm going to brown or rust blue, But the use of a maroon scothbrite pad will give you a lot more control when carding. If you use the cold blue like you are talking you might also get some gray scotchbrite pads, they are not aggressive at all.
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Appreciate it! I have the maroon and gray on hand. We'll see what I turn out....lol.
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I appreciate all the info from this thread.
Still a "work in progress" but I am happy with the results I've gotten!
(https://s20.postimg.cc/jzgm9wwpp/IMG_20180514_222057702.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9cmt4hok9/)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/qpx3jcc5p/IMG_20180515_171707468_LL.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/oy44ofssp/)
Pics don't really show the barrel off well. I think when the rifle is done and I get it in different light it'll photograph better...it looks much better in person. Every day it actually looks better. Still getting a little cold blue and rust off each time I rub it down with oil.
Browned for about a week. Tried to add 2-3 coats a day and never carded. Used an entire bottle of TOTW browning solution.
After that, I carded the heavy stuff off with maroon scotchbrite....then the "fun" began. Sanding all the rust off.....found that basically wet sanding worked best to get rid of the rust and keep the paper from clogging. It was more involved than I thought it'd be. And a mess lol.
After that, I cold blued..rubbed back with gray scotchbrite. I did 2 coats of cold blue.
Still have a ways to go to finish the gun...but I shot it "in the white" and while cleaning it, figured I may as well finish the metal.