AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Smokey Plainsman on February 25, 2018, 08:00:36 AM
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Wanting to buy a TVM flintlock, .36 or .50 caliber.
Are the .36 caliber ones fun to shoot? I know they're cheaper to shoot, but are they as fun as a the big .50s?
Smokey
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Depends on what you want to do. Me, I like a 36 very well. Depending on ones skill factor, I have saw some 32-36,s do some fine shooting at 100 yards if there was no wind.
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I would have to say that a 36 is a lot of fun to shoot. I
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Sounds good, gang. Playing $#*! deciding between that and a .40 for my first semi-custom.
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Ok, I'll throw my 2 cents in, since you asked.
When I had to make that decision, I went with a .40. I asked around among some serious target shooters and the general consensus was "40" without hesitation. I wasn't looking for a hunting rifle. I already have four 50 caliber options to hunt with.
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The fun factor translates into two things for me. Does it function properly? Load it, prime it and pull the trigger. If it goes off it's "fun". The second aspect of fun is how accurate is it? That's probably more related to the operator that the rifle but fact is some seem to be more accurate that others. This aspect of fun can be calculated by a very scientific formula. Target distance (Z) x 1.5 + number of shots (Y) x 4 divided by the average length in mm's off center for each shot (V) = Fun factor (Q) :)
I calculate the fun factor for each owned rifle, cal's 32 to 58. 32 and 36 score the highest but only slightly more than the 40's. One 50 is also very good and another 50 is not so good. The 58 scores the lowest. But formula aside, they are all fun.
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Wanting to buy a TVM flintlock, .36 or .50 caliber.
Are the .36 caliber ones fun to shoot? I know they're cheaper to shoot, but are they as fun as a the big .50s?
Smokey
I wouldn't consider a .50 big. I have shot guns from .25 to .775, they are all about the same fun wise. There isn't much difference in the economy of a .36 compared to a .50 either.
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I have 50, 54 and a 62 fowler but of all my guns my 32 is my most fun to shoot. I don't hunt anymore so shooting targets is all I am able to do.
Mike as usual is pretty much right in his reply. They are all fun to shoot.
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36s are fun but 32s are funner 😉 wife loves hers. Dan
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I had a .30 and a .36. The .36 was easier to load and less aggravating because it was easier to handle the larger balls and patches. I have several .50s, .54s, and a .62 rifle. All fun.
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Hi,
A fun gun has a few factors to consider, not in any particular order.
(1) recoil, little is better than a lot (2) cost to shoot .32 is cheap, .58 is not(3) availability of components (4) ease of loading ( .32 are more difficult in cold weather, .36 are better, .40 easier again, and so on. (5) bullet back stop .32 doesn't need much, .58 needs a lot. (6) style of rifle, a slender swamped or octagonal to round .32 or .36 is a true joy to carry ( all day ) , where as a ponderous Hawken style or heavy Jaeger is not a carry all day gun.
I am almost 71 yrs. old and most of my guns are .50 cal. and bigger, no particular reason.
My favourite plinking gun is a .45 oct. to round Bucks county long rifle. ( easier to load with fat fingers, and little recoil )
Does that help?
Fred
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Wanting to buy a TVM flintlock, .36 or .50 caliber.
Are the .36 caliber ones fun to shoot? I know they're cheaper to shoot, but are they as fun as a the big .50s?
Smokey
THEY ARE ALL FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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what Longknife said. However, if you are going to hunt with it. A .36 is great for squirrels. For deer, not so much.
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Depends if you like a pop or a bang.
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The squirrel rifles are a LOT of fun to shoot, but I do not consider .50's to be big - those are middle-of-the-road calibres, imho,
as in - everybody has one. Having a little guy, like a .32 or .36, along with a .58 or even larger, THAT makes the little ones even
more fun to shoot.
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My .32 is my favorite gun to shoot. Little noise, little recoil, cheap to shoot, a liteweight gun, and besides-- hunting squirrels is really fun. I have won woods walks with mine, but the targets don't ring loud and sometimes they have to go look for my tiny mark.
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My first thought as a response was, "does a squirrel eat nuts"!? I've owned and hunted with both .32s and a .36; I like the .36 the most. My .36 gets lots more range/woods time than my .32. Mine is an iron mounted SMR with a 38" tube. I like all the calibers and love to shoot them but it just seems to be easier to get the dime size groups at 50 yds with that tiny ball than with anything larger. I'm mostly impervious to recoil, up to a point, but the .36 simply ain't got none! That little 6lb rifle feels like toting nothing yet shoots like a laser. By all means get a .36; the tiny ball is a bit easier to handle in the woods than the 46 grain .32.
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Not quite as much fun as cleaning out the gutter
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Oh, I'm sure you enjoy that don't you? ::)
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The sound that my 32 makes when shot actually allows my old ears to hear that sonic boom that is missed when shooting the larger caliber's. ;D
I have been playing with a 36 caliber underhammer recently and so far have found it to be one of the most accurate rifles I've ever shouldered! The peep sights might have something to do with that, but still have a lot more practice to give this one!
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Wanting to buy a TVM flintlock, .36 or .50 caliber.
Are the .36 caliber ones fun to shoot? I know they're cheaper to shoot, but are they as fun as a the big .50s?
Smokey
Like others said, a .50 is not really a large caliber but more middle of the pack and is at most a few pennies a shot more expensive to shoot if using patched round balls. You really need to consider what will be the use of the gun, target or hunting. A .36 is a nice small game rifle and closer range target shooter. Having shot a .36 for a few years as a target rifle, I found that the small ball was a distinct disadvantage at 100 yards on even a moderately windy day. A rifle that is going to be used for target shooting at 100 yards or more, and hunting medium sized game (i.e., white tailed deer or smaller wild hogs), then the .36 isn't going to fit the bill and be illegal in most states for hunting other than small game. A .50 is a better choice as an "all around" rifle than a .36. But each to his/her own.
Mole Eyes
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The only disadvantage I can see in shooting a small caliber is it will make the larger calibers seem worse than before having the small caliber. The bigger caliber will seem louder and have more recoil than you remember.
Just our mind playing tricks on us.
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For hunting small game and varmints under 50 yds I'd go with the .36, If I was just doing serious target work I'd go with the .40. If I was going hunting for deer and such out to 100 yds I'd go .45 and above. Your best bet is to get two rifles one in small bore and one in large bore ;D ::) :-\ ;).
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Disadvantages to small bores (36 and down): they are a little more susceptible to wind drift than a larger bore for paper punching out beyond 50 yds ; on woodswalks against hanging steel, it may be difficult to see or hear a hit; a wood ramrod will be slender and a bit delicate, so you have to keep bore fouling under control to be sure you can get a new load rammed down; and a smaller ball gives you slightly less margin for error on novelty targets like 'cut the card' or 'split the ball on an axe'. But, within their limitations, they are fun to shoot.
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For hunting small game and varmints under 50 yds I'd go with the .36, If I was just doing serious target work I'd go with the .40. If I was going hunting for deer and such out to 100 yds I'd go .45 and above. Your best bet is to get two rifles one in small bore and one in large bore ;D ::) :-\ ;).
I totally agree, I have rifles in .32, .50 and .54 and a .45 will be next.......robin
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Yep, the .45 is close to ideal for game up to and including deer. For any targets/woods walks and 100 yard shooting it shines doing double duty. Everything else begs for a .36.
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I have had a lot of fun shooting crows in the garden with a little .36 Leman rifle, done the same with rabbits in the same garden. Crows give our chooks a hard time and steal eggs. I sit on the back stoop and shoot, nice in the morning with a book and a cup of tea. !
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Every rifle is fun. Some are just so fun that I sell them so some other sucker, errr shooter can enjoy the fun too. i remember this 45 caliber bent barreled piece of fun........
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I wanted a .36 when I went shopping, but wound up settling for a .32 instead. So I can't really comment on a .36 versus a larger bore.
But I reach for my .32 more often than I do my old 50.
Mike
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Although I no longer have one, .32 has always been the most fun to shoot. I have killed hundreds of squirrels with a .32 cal. They are very easy on the powder and lead too- and less noisy. High fun factor. A .45 is a great overal Rifle- target shooting, to include shooting a woods walk, and deer hunting are all a little more satisfying with a .45! Depends on what you’ll be doing. I probably have a dozen contemporary flintlock Longrifles, but I get cozy with just one and end up using it for everything. I’m shooting a .40 caliber now.
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I guess I'll be the odd duck and say go with the 50 cal . I had a 36 cal and it was terrible finicky on loads maybe it was just my luck that mine wasn't all that accurate either . If your using a straight barrel the 50 will be lighter if you use a 7/8" unless 36 is a 3/4" . I don't feel the 50 cal recoils at all unless your using hunting loads. My target load of 40 gr 3F is nothing in the 50 . You can also hunt small game with a 50 just don't shoot em in the eatin parts. With the 36 I can only hunt small stuff with the 50 I can handle everything that I wanna hunt in Pa , one rifle multi purpose I'm practical that way I guess .
Tim
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Shooting a .36 is super fun and highly recommended. But if you opt for a .32, it will work perfectly and a .36 won't be needed. I've found both calibers to be no more finicky than the big bores and no more prone to fouling.
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One thing I like about my .32, is that due to the poor ballistics, I worry less about how far it will travel when shooting at squirrels in trees.
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Must calibers to have .....40.....45.....54.....62 Smooth ...those will cover any hunting /plinking situation that comes along
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One thing I like about my .32, is that due to the poor ballistics, I worry less about how far it will travel when shooting at squirrels in trees.
I used .050 for the BC and a rather high 1,800fps for MV and found a RB with THAT BC cannot travel past about 850 yards.
At this distance, the ball is 18 feet high at 25 yards. You can guess the angle - I suppose more math will show that in degrees. Any steeper or
shallower angle of departure will reduce the maximum range the ball could travel, if it did not hit something before coming to rest.
Incidentally, the velocity of the ball at the maximum distance would be approximately 143 feet per second, so it would sting, most likely,
1/2 the speed of a paint ball but smaller in diameter.
Just checked and Lyman notes .049 for a .350" ball, so good guess. A .311 of so will not be as high, thus lower maximum range.
The larger the ball or about any type of bullet, will increase the maximum possible range - in bullets, quite dramatically.
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Just picked up a new to me 36 caliber, so it looks like I just joined a fun club. Really excited to take it out this weekend.
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I built and shoot two .40's but only for close range .They are great up to about 50-60 yds but beyond that the wind ,if any ,plays havoc. Also the smaller balls are really hard to see on the 100 yd standing bear target even with a good spotting scope (if you do any longer range shooting anyway ) .
After years of playing with various calibers I have come to the conclusion that .45 is just about perfect for the kind of shooting I do up to 100 yds.
If I were going to spend real money on a custom gun I would opt for the generalist .45 caliber caliber.Not that you are thinking of the resale value at this point but I would guess it would be higher as well.
.40 caliber ball costs the same as .45 ,sometimes more per 100 . Also my 40's want just about the same amount of powder .The 40's like to run faster for the best accuracy (mine are both 1-48''twist ).The savings aren't there .
Further I find handling smaller .36 and .32 caliber balls more difficult but perhaps my manual dexterity isn't the best.
What .40's and smaller calibers do make are elegant slim rifles.
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I've built two .36 cal's and other than my 45 I like the 36 for the pure fun of small caliber shooting. Inexpensive to shoot they are quite accurate out to about 60 yards. I believe you can compare the muzzleloader .36 to a .22LR round.
Thumbs up for a 36!
dave
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Almost as much fun as a .32 caliber. I've had a .32 flinter since 1972 and have a ball with it. Taken lots of squirrels and groundhogs. If one were careful I would take a deer also. It was always my go to gun for fun shooting. As to accuracy, I won my first 100 yard First Place ribbon at our local muzzleloader club using it. I would advise anyone who doesn't have one to get one. You will not be sorry.
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I had a .30 and a .36. The .36 was easier to load and less aggravating because it was easier to handle the larger balls and patches. I have several .50s, .54s, and a .62 rifle. All fun.
Yes, but which is the funnerest? ;D
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Like most others here I agree that all different calibers of roundball guns are fun. Some have specific uses that make them better than others in those areas, but fun is built in to all of them. A couple of myths about small calibers have kept some people away I think. One in particular is wind drift. Its true that smaller diameter balls are effected more by wind, but not much. Certainly not enough to notice shooting offhand, and doubtful it would be noticeable even when shooting off a bench. For example, a .395 ball weighing 95grains at MV of 1450 in a 10mph cross wind will drift 14.0" at 100yds. Same conditions with a 67grain .354 ball and the drift at 100yds is 15.2". Bottom line is if the wind is blowing 10mph, wait for better conditions to shoot 100yds no matter what caliber you're shooting. Another myth I've heard is that small caliber guns foul more. I have not found this to be true with 3 different .36 caliber rifles and one .32. Bore condition is the primary factor for fouling imo. A smoothly polished bore will foul less than a rough bore. Google "round ball wind drift calculators" and look at the numbers.
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Like most others here I agree that all different calibers of roundball guns are fun. Some have specific uses that make them better than others in those areas, but fun is built in to all of them. A couple of myths about small calibers have kept some people away I think. One in particular is wind drift. Its true that smaller diameter balls are effected more by wind, but not much. Certainly not enough to notice shooting offhand, and doubtful it would be noticeable even when shooting off a bench. For example, a .395 ball weighing 95grains at MV of 1450 in a 10mph cross wind will drift 14.0" at 100yds. Same conditions with a 67grain .354 ball and the drift at 100yds is 15.2". Bottom line is if the wind is blowing 10mph, wait for better conditions to shoot 100yds no matter what caliber you're shooting. Another myth I've heard is that small caliber guns foul more. I have not found this to be true with 3 different .36 caliber rifles and one .32. Bore condition is the primary factor for fouling imo. A smoothly polished bore will foul less than a rough bore. Google "round ball wind drift calculators" and look at the numbers.
I totally agree, LH. I've never had a fouling problem with either the .36 or .32 and I've owned and still own both. I've taken more squirrels with a .32 as it was my first small bore rifle. I also have a flint SMR and shoot it a lot. It has been in the squirrel woods as well and accounted for squirrel and coon.
In answer to the question, "which is better, the .32 or the .36", I will say unequivocally, yes! :o
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I've had .32 and .36. I'm thinking a .25 might be even more fun,
but difficult for old fingers to handle, especially in the winter time.
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Just in passing I'll mention that a friend and I were shooting plastic soda bottles at around 80 yards. The load in my .36 was 20 grains of 3F. The ball did drop a few inches at that distance; but by aiming at the top of the bottles that little ball either hit the middle or a little lower on the bottles. Windage was still perfect at that range.
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I just picked up a 42” Green Mountain.36 barrel for a Gillespie rifle build. I hope to have it up and smoking by this fall...if it shoots like my other Green Mountain barrels the tree rats better start runnin’.
Greg
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I've had a .25, a .30, and a .32 and the .30 seems to be the happy medium for squirrels. Manageable to use, but the errant bodyshot doesn't tear them up too bad. Some I've seen shot with a .36 were quite tattered. But, I lost points in a few woods walks we we had trouble hearing the ball hit long targets using the small calibers. A .36 seems like it would be a good target gun. I'm getting ready to build one for my daughter, hopefully she'll like it.
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To answer your question,Yes!
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If you're still looking I would take a serious look at the Kibler .36 in the sales forum. I have a 36, 40 & 45. They're the best thing going. I like my 40 the best but they're all fun.
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I have a couple of .36 rifles (and one .40) they are great bunny rifles and good for sniping crows of the back stoop. No weight and no recoil, great for starting of kids and women. My step daughter only knows how to shoot a .36, has never touched a modern rifle. I did find the .36 a bit light for Kangaroos unless head shots. We do not have squirrels down under, except in zoos.
Cheers
Heeler
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Regarding fouling, I assumed that .32 and .36 were more susceptible to fouling, but I note that some here disagree. I do think the smaller bores require a bit more diligence, such as avoiding swabbing between shots (so as not to cover the vent with fouling pushed down the bore.) I still believe, however, that fouling can be more problematic in smaller bores, because the fouling represents a bigger percentage of the area circumscribed by the bore (relative to the same thickness of fouling in a larger bore).
Another factor to consider is this: what happens when you get to be really good with your rifle, and you decide you want to hunt with it? A .50 caliber will take a deer whereas a .36 is probably not optimal.
I personally think the .45 caliber is the best all-around caliber for muzzleloaders... if you had to choose just one.
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I admit to being a relative novice WRT traditional muzzleloaders, but I think that what caliber is "best all around" largely depends on where you live and what your intended game is. My primary big game focus is elk, and using a .45 for an animal that can be the size of a horse and is very tenacious of life could be a very iffy proposition. From my own experience, I would consider my .54 with PRB about the minimum I would feel comfortable with. Personally, I would like to build a rifle in .58 or .62 for elk hunting. A .45 would be nice to have for the local blacktail deer that are about the size of slightly overgrown jackrabbits.
Regarding fouling, I assumed that .32 and .36 were more susceptible to fouling, but I note that some here disagree. I do think the smaller bores require a bit more diligence, such as avoiding swabbing between shots (so as not to cover the vent with fouling pushed down the bore.) I still believe, however, that fouling can be more problematic in smaller bores, because the fouling represents a bigger percentage of the area circumscribed by the bore (relative to the same thickness of fouling in a larger bore).
Another factor to consider is this: what happens when you get to be really good with your rifle, and you decide you want to hunt with it? A .50 caliber will take a deer whereas a .36 is probably not optimal.
I personally think the .45 caliber is the best all-around caliber for muzzleloaders... if you had to choose just one.
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I use Lehigh Valley Lube and have never had problems with fouling with either 30, 32 or 36. My problem is loading the smaller 30 and 32, so I sold them and built a 36 (also sold :D) but to me the 36 is a far better choice for my clumsy hands. I will be building another 36, it just seems much easier for me and mine shot just as well as the smaller calibers and as an extra is a little lighter in comparably barrel profiles.
Dennis
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Although .45 is my favorite caliber, I shoot my "dainty" little .36 flint SMR the most. Light, accurate and cheap to feed. I use two lubes in all my guns; TOW mink oil and Hoppes #9 BP Lube. I like mink oil for the bush and Hoppes for the range and sometimes in the bush. Using either lube, I never bother with swabbing the bore at all until the rifle is cleaned. It's merely a matter of shoot, load, shoot, etc, etc. Just use the right patch, right lube and there you have it.
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I am not physicaly able to hunt anymore so what fun I get is at paper targets with my 32 caliber rifle. If I were young again I would still use a 32 for small game hunting. I have large bore rifles but never use them any more. Will give to my grandson. A friend and I sit on his back porch in the fall and shoot apples off his trees. Lot of fun.