AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: rich pierce on March 01, 2018, 07:05:39 PM
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I hate cutting out patch boxes from thick stock. It could take hours with a jewelers saw and I would break 15 blades. Is a scroll saw (electric little saw with a table and reciprocating blade) worth having for such jobs or are they only good for wood?
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I tried that at some point in the past, and had a really hard time controlling chatter. Might be that I was using the wrong blade or speed. I just used the blade that was on there.
I gave up, and went with the jeweler's saw and lots of blades!
As I do more patch boxes, I might try it again on some scrap first. I'll let you know if I get any good results.
Norm
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During the fall customer appreciation days at Woodcraft in Seattle, there is a guy that I have watched in amazement for several years that uses a DeWalt scroll saw to skeletonize silver coins. I thought that this would be a great way to cut out patchboxes and other inlays. I had an OLD Craftsman scroll saw that I tried several times to get to work. I think I might have been able to make it work had I spent a bit more time practicing and making adjustments to the saw. Because it was not a high priority for me I got rid of the saw. I think the newer scroll saws are more refined and would work well for cutting metal.
David
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I use a scroll saw with jewelers blades. I glue a thin piece of cardboard on the back of the brass (or metal I am cutting) with elmers spray glue. The cardboard is the type you find on the back of a notebook or a tissue box. This allows the metal to slide on the base of the saw very easily, stops all chatter and "lubricates" the cut. Go slow, blades will break, run the saw at medium speed and push slowly, but if done right, there is very little finish filing to be done.
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Wow, a jewelers saw blade will fit a table type scroll saw? Cool!
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I hate cutting out patch boxes from thick stock. It could take hours with a jewelers saw and I would break 15 blades. Is a scroll saw (electric little saw with a table and reciprocating blade) worth having for such jobs or are they only good for wood?
I bought a 16" scroll saw for this very purpose. I set it up as the directions stated and proceeded to break almost every blade I had and did not get through 3/4 of the patch box >:(. The saw was a variable one so I could adjust the speed and the blades I had were of different TPI so my conclusion was that this did not work for me. MAYBE if you glued the brass onto a piece of 1/4" wood it MIGHT work but sawing the brass alone did not work for me :(. My suggestion is if you got the extra money and time you MIGHT have success with using the scroll saw -- otherwise save your money and buy blades for your jewelers saw. ;)
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I drill 1/8" holes along the outside edge of the pattern glued to sheet brass, then use a jeweler's saw to cut from hole to hole. After that, I file up to the line drawn on the pattern. The patchbox I recently cut had seven piercings and I broke no blades...
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I just judiciously saw Pbox parts w/ a hacksaw....not close, but it doesn't take much time to use a double cut file to file w/in .01 of the outline and then use the finer files. Many times a portion of both sideplates is the same so they're super glued together and filed. A little heat from a propane torch separates.
The only time I use a jewelers saw is for the piercings......Fred
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I use a porta band saw mounted upright for the big cuts. I’ve watched Frank House use a sharp cold chisel efficiently.
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I cut the rough shape with a hack saw and then do all the intricate stuff with a jewelers saw. It takes some studying to learn how to use a jewelers saw efficiently. I can usually cut out a whole patch box wit hone blade. Most people tighten the blade too tight. You need just the correct blade and just the right tension. If your cutting 1/16" thick brass you need at least 48 teeth to the inch. Don't tighten the blade real taught. it needs just a small amount of flex. If the blade is real tight it will snap very easily. The draft on the box edges can be cut all at the same time. Just when you get good at all this stuff you will be too old to do it anymore. Go figure.
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Rich, after washing your mouth out with soap for mentioning the EVIL power tool ;) ;D, you might look into this. I have a friend who supplies patch boxes to a number of vendors. He cuts them out with a small band saw with a little fine toothed metal blade . He has used pulleys to reduce the speed quite a bit! He usually cuts them out in stacks of six, but I have used his saw to cut out an inlay or two , as well as a patch box , and it worked very well!. I have always been too cheap to set one up like that , so I use a 32 TPI hacksaw blade and cut them pretty close with that! Nate
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Like everyone else I too thought a brand new scroll saw would be just the ticket. Like the rest I found it sucks, although it seems some of the more intelligent folks figured out how to make it work.....I may try again.
Depending on my mood, I'll just get close with a hack saw and then file to the line or use a Jewler's saw, I've gotten pretty good with both methods over the past 38 years, and fairly fast. I never look forward with eager anticipation to cutting out patchboxes....lot of work no matter how you look at it.
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The waterjet I have at work works rather well :D no more un HC than a scroll saw I guess .
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Any of you ever use the spiral saw blades from Bestway products. They work well cut in any direction and aren't as prone to break as jewelers saw blades. I've used them and they work well for me. I made up a hacksaw frame with a pair of small visegrips so I could remove one end and thread the blade through a drilled hole to cut out a piercing. Tim
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Has anyone tried gluing the 1/8" plywood on top and bottom with pattern on top and then cutting with a scroll saw? I've cut silver that way, works like a champ. I used spray glue and then dissolved it with mineral spirits. Also use jeweler saw blades, or metal cutting blades.
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I use 2/0 jewelers saw blades with a saw frame that is big enough. Make sure to lube the blade every couple inches. I never had a problem. It goes fast and the blades last a long time. But then I have LOTS of practice with a jewelers saw.
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I make the patchbox pattern from paper and once I'm satisfied with that, I make a copy and glue it to the brass sheet stock. I use a metal cutting bandsaw to make the big cuts, then I use needle files to bring it to the final shape. For piercings, I drill out as much as possible then use a jewlers saw and needle files to trim out the piercings to the point where it looks right. Pretty efficiant for me, doesn't take to long.
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Years ago I bought a 10” Delta home craft bandsaw from an old clockmaker. He cut many of the fancy wood parts for his hand made clocks with this little saw. I notice when I was in his shop that many of the clocks had brass rings, and numerals, on their face. I asked him how he cut them out, and he said he cut them on the bandsaw. He used a 10 tooth per inch blade for almost everything he did on the saw. He roughed out the numerals, and finished them up with a jewelers saw.
I tried it for cutting out parts for a tradegun, including the dragon sideplate, and even a 3/16” brass buttplate, and it worked great. The secret is the narrow, fine toothed blade. A bandsaw pulls the project down onto the table without the reciprocating action of a scroll saw.
Hungry Horse
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What jewelers saw blade do most use on 0.035, 0.040, and 0.050 brass and German silver? I have heard that Rio Grande's blades are the best. Can anyone confirm this. Also someone mentioned a blade that is round, who carries these and what do they call them? Sorry for all the questions but need to purchase some and want to make the right choice the first time. I had some I got from a muzzleloading supply and they broke often. Maybe I did not have them tight enough or too tight but made it hard to use them for any timeliness of a project. Thanks.
elkhorne
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What jewelers saw blade do most use on 0.035, 0.040, and 0.050 brass and German silver? I have heard that Rio Grande's blades are the best. Can anyone confirm this. Also someone mentioned a blade that is round, who carries these and what do they call them? Sorry for all the questions but need to purchase some and want to make the right choice the first time. I had some I got from a muzzleloading supply and they broke often. Maybe I did not have them tight enough or too tight but made it hard to use them for any timeliness of a project. Thanks.
elkhorne
I always used the saw blades from Rio Grande. For 1/16 brass I would go with the 2/0 size. Small enough to do good detail and large enough that I am more likely to replace it from going dull rather than breaking it. It helps a lot to lube the blades. Try this stuff: https://www.riogrande.com/product/stick-burlife-lubricant/117003 Putting the blades in too tight is going to break them in a hurry. Use just enough tension to hold them tight. What will make the biggest difference is setting up a bench pin. You will end up using it for a million other things also.
One of my first jobs when I started out as a goldsmith apprentice was to saw the torch and branches out of the back of a dime without leaving any extra metal or cutting into the design. It took a bit of time before I got one perfect. Actually it was a lot of time! And a lot of blades and a lot of dimes. Get a bunch of 8/0 blades and give it a try. If you manage to do it you will never have any trouble with a jeweler saw again.