AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: 44-henry on July 08, 2018, 12:37:20 AM
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Just picked this up a few hours ago at an estate sale and am hoping someone can provide some info. The critical details are gently swamped octagon to round barrel which is 5.25" long with about a .490 smooth bore, no sights.Overall length is 10.25. The lock is cute and is only 3.5" long. The stock is walnut and I thought at first it was a restock using old parts, but now I am not so sure. If it is it happened a long time ago. I am guessing it is European (German?), but don't really know. I asked how much and when I was told $125 my wallet was out in record time. Any ideas what it is and when it was made?
(https://preview.ibb.co/mQeZmo/20180707_173405.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fN0JCT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kHXn6o/20180707_173332.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nq7LRo)
(https://preview.ibb.co/idoS6o/20180707_173306.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cra76o)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ef9BXT/20180707_173235.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jwWfRo)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gtxn6o/20180707_173206.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eLMEmo)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hS5wz8/20180707_171626.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d5jBXT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/koH9K8/20180707_171238.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cMkJCT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cWn9K8/20180707_171229.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k62yCT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/iasWXT/20180707_171211.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ezpZmo)
(https://preview.ibb.co/maRrXT/20180707_171207.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jRzBXT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gNMfRo/20180707_171155.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d9Sbz8)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ig7WXT/20180707_171148.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cH35sT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cvfUK8/20180707_171141.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hKkwz8)
(https://preview.ibb.co/iax9K8/20180707_171137.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mZ90Ro)
(https://preview.ibb.co/d7NgXT/20180707_171118.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ffxFsT)
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I’m thinking maybe Belgian, and quite possibly an old replica. The craftsmanship is pretty sketchy.
Hungry Horse
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Maybe, but it looks like it was made to be used, would a Belgian craftsman have put this much work into a cheap replica? I added a couple more photos of the lock.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jCdu2T/20180707_190818.jpg) (https://ibb.co/joU1hT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hHfk98/20180707_190722.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gbME2T)
(https://preview.ibb.co/b9SMhT/20180707_190708.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cKu1hT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mU3GGo/20180707_190654.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eHxMhT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fUZHNT/20180707_190638.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f6QP2T)
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I am far from an expert , but I believe that the parts are older than the stock. Not saying that the restock couldn't be fairly old as well . The lock as well as the furniture give me a Dutch feel. I may be wrong about this as well. I really like the lock and furniture ! Thanks for posting Nate
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44-henry anyway you look at it. You made a very good deal..! Sorry I can help on identifying. Oldtravler
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I think German parts, replacement stock. I think the lock looks older than the rest of the furniture.
Greg
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Thank you for the information. Looking at it a bit more carefully last night I noticed a couple things. The side plate is inletted almost flush with the stock, much deeper than it would have been originally. I think this might have been done because the lock bolt is stripped at the very end. Inletting the plate deeper might have been a way of using some of the remaining threads.
The lock bolt is also interesting. Probably not easy to see in the pictures, but the upper portion is more square and was forged down to a rounded profile where it is threaded, threads look swaged. The buttcap is poorly inletted in places, though not all over. The screw is an obvious replacement and I feel someone has probably worked this a bit deeper for whatever reason. Other inletting for the barrel and tang is very well done as is the inletting for the lock internals. The edges of the lock mortise is rough, but this may be due to improper removal over the years.
The triggerguard is also an interesting profile and was either made for someone with much smaller hands than me, or was never designed to be used with more than the tip of your finger. It is I guess very low profile and that might have been the intent. Unfortunately there are no markings of any kind. Perhaps there is something on the underside of the barrel, eventually I will look.
One question I do have regarding the lock, were many early locks made without bridles? I thought with this one due to the small size it might just have been left off with the sear and spring screwed directly to the plate.
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Old restock. The original stock was much higher quality.
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As Mike says.
I think the barrel got bobbed as well in it's journey through life.
A very nice looking lock.
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Hi,
The lock looks pretty inexpensively made. Although, I cannot tell for sure but I suggest not getting too dazzled by the "engraving" on it because I think it is acid etching, not engraving.
dave
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The lock maybe etched, but the rest is engraved. I still find it interesting. I got it for less than they were asking for a rusty old CVA Kentucky pistol at the same place and it will, if nothing else, be a good paper weight on my desk. I have in the past spent more money on dumber things and I am sure I will again.
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I got a feeling that if you were to post it in the for sale section you would have a bunch of dummies just like you, and they would not be able to to get thier wallet's out fast enough to give you what you paid for it. A good friend of mine has a saying, when he owned that rifle it was a restocked piece of junk now that they own it, it's a rare piece of Rev. History. ::)
It may very well be a militia pistol built from misilaneous parts and ruffed stocked as quickly and as cheaply as possible, overly cleaned by a over zelous past owner in the 50's. Or it could have restocked in the 60's by a Wana be gunsmith because the original stock was busted. Who knows, whatever it is I hope you enjoy it, it's a good piece.
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Dave,
That is why I said a V nice Looking lock. :-)
I can not see the lock clearly enough to determine whether engraved or etched, but the Style of decoration and the animal shapes, say early 18th C. & Germanic to me.
Best,
Richard.
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I know little about old guns or in this case old parts, but if it were mine I would restock it again, correctly. It was a pretty bad hack job by the previous restocker.
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I HAVE TO AGREE, IT LOOKS LIKE A POORLY DONE RESTOCK OF OLD PARTS. THE PARTS ARE PROBABLY WORTH WHAT YOU PAID FOR THE WHOLE PISTOL.
MARK
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Definitely agree its a restock as others have stated. Looks Germanic too my eye based on the existing parts. Possibly from Carlsbad, Bohemia, just going off some of the guns I've seen from their. I think you could pretty safely assume its from somewhere in the Holy Roman Empire in the 18th century.