AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Sequatchie Rifle on August 19, 2018, 10:14:44 PM
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Any ideas on who may have made this Longrifle? Barrel is 44 1/2 inches long, .36 caliber, walnut stock.
(https://preview.ibb.co/cfEM5z/fullsizeoutput_c04.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f1rOJK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ejT3JK/fullsizeoutput_c05.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gwdQXe)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dbZzse/fullsizeoutput_c06.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hbmqyK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/c7FiJK/fullsizeoutput_c07.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kamZQz)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hHRqyK/fullsizeoutput_c0c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ksk5Xe)
(https://preview.ibb.co/e7vHdK/fullsizeoutput_c0d.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fXosCe)
(https://preview.ibb.co/d7VTkz/fullsizeoutput_c08.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ma2Kse)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ee9cdK/fullsizeoutput_c09.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cr78kz)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hXA5Xe/fullsizeoutput_c0a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cGpcdK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ipEhCe/fullsizeoutput_c0b.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cHRJkz)
(https://preview.ibb.co/j7Adkz/fullsizeoutput_c0e.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kX2DJK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/b3Nr5z/fullsizeoutput_c0f.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gLiLyK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/iXf0yK/IMG_2235.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c6sr5z)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hSwjQz/IMG_2236.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nxzSdK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mBTykz/IMG_2237.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d5MJkz)
(https://preview.ibb.co/c6wUse/IMG_2238.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jYTLyK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/m8bUse/IMG_2239.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jLa0yK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/eUXDJK/IMG_2240.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g28ndK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gp1jQz/IMG_2241.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e9hDJK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bC0NCe/IMG_2242.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c617dK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mcpFXe/fullsizeoutput_c11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jSOaXe)
(https://preview.ibb.co/iKY9se/fullsizeoutput_c12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bWb7dK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/d4yykz/IMG_2245.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kWVpse)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jbXfyK/IMG_2246.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e6Tykz)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ePDndK/IMG_2247.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nObUse)
(https://preview.ibb.co/nmLYJK/IMG_2248.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hXindK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kEWJkz/IMG_2249.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mkO9se)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gQRvXe/fullsizeoutput_c15.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dhf0yK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fPTW5z/fullsizeoutput_c16.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dDJ9se)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mUfNCe/IMG_2252.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fR17dK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gzCr5z/fullsizeoutput_c14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nehDJK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/frNPQz/IMG_2254.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dZDndK)
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??? ???... S.R., ... Are you thinking one of the Beardens,...?
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That's one nice rifle!!
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The Griffith lock was marketed by Griffith who was a partner of Christian Seibert in the 60's in Cinncinnatti.
Mark
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That lock is just like what was in the beater antique rifle I picked up about a month ago. Helps me know how to engrave it.
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Condition of tang plus stock shaping at muzzle makes me think it was cut back a bit at breech at some point (due to erosion) and the pewter nosecap poured then? Could easily have been 46+", originally.
The location of the first barrel pin appears to be past the entry pipe? Generally that is earlier trait than I would expect with that style of trigger guard, so along with the tang shape it may be an important clue to origin. Or is that pin originally the second pin, in which case are there any filled holes on forearm?
Overall, beautiful rifle that appears to be in good shape!
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Nice old rifle.
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The 2nd photo shows the unique shaping of the stock.
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Looks Kentucky made to me. Does not look cut back, does not look altered in any way.
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;) ;)... I do know of an Elbert Bible , Tennessee Rifle that has that same raised area between lock molding and butt-plate,....
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Sequatchie, is the front sight inlet and soldered? Very nice rifle!!!!
Robby
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I agree with HLBLY, looks like its a Kentucky made rifle to me. Owned one at one time that looks very much like this rifle in style, but don`t have it to compare now. The barrel tang is pure North Carolina, but I don`t think it was made there. Wormey
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The front sight is not soldered. Thanks for the comments- keep them coming!
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The stock architecture is very similar to Kentucky-made rifles, and the guard/butt plate/triggers are all a style that was sold in Louisville during the percussion era 1840-1860. Note the "square shoulder" on the rear spur of the guard, that runs straight up to the rear extension rather than curving up to meet it...and also the front trigger with the little "moon" curve behind it. Butt architecture is also strongly Kentucky in outline. But the cast nose cap is something I have not seen on northern Kentucky guns. Without the odd pewter nose cap, I'd think it was a Kentucky gun, but with the nose cap it becomes questionable. Most Kentucky guns also have slightly tighter side facings, particularly around the lock plate, without as much wood left in front of the lock's nose, and tail [although this one has a flat tail making side facing look longer to rear]. Some Ohio guns tended toward the longer side facings, more so than in Kentucky. So perhaps it's a southern Ohio gun, probably made near the Ohio River as the lock suggests, and close enough to Kentucky to be influenced by that State's gunmaking styles. Shelby Gallien
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Thanks for the input Shelby! It came from Jack Buckner’s collection.
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Bro Bill,
I had forgotten about this one, some of those I should have kept!
Bro Buck
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The front sight is not soldered. Thanks for the comments- keep them coming!
I don't see any trace of a dovetail or staking marks. How is it held in?
Robby
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If you will take a close look at the 19th picture you can clearly see the end of a brass sight base dovetailed into the barrel.
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Well, I blew it up and I cannot 'clearly' see it, if I allow my desire to see it take over, then, okay, maybe.
Robin
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Sorry for the absence- I like to think the pattern on the pewter nosecap represents Alabama or maybe even Scotland, but most likeeiit is just a design someone preferred. Thanks to everybody who commented.
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If you will take a close look at the 19th picture you can clearly see the end of a brass sight base dovetailed into the barrel.
Man, my eyes must be failing me. I sure don't see anything that looks like a brass sight base or a dovetail for that front sight. I know SR said it wasn't soldered, but in picture 20, enlarged, it sure looks like a blob of something on the top and rear sides of the sight blade, with the thinner, stepped front of the blade peeking out.
-Ron
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Ron I don't see it either ! My guess is it's pinned in place. But what do I know...! Oldtravler
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On my iPad I can see the faint lines of a dovetail. The gunsmith who did that was a master with a file!
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By coincidence, a virtually identical rifle by the same maker surfaced recently. The only significant differences are: 1) fine curly maple stock, and 2) a more elaborate cast pewter nose cap. It has all the same features, including the soft ridge running down the center line of the butt stock on either side, same guard and triggers, (I think the same lock), same very high "buckhorn" rear sight, and same inset front sight. I'll see if the owner might allow a couple pictures of it to be posted. And of course, it is also unsigned. Shelby Gallien
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Very interesting. I look forward to seeing photos and hearing details. Thanks
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Here's the second rifle in all its glory. Note the fine maple stock, and the elaborate cast nose cap, in particular. Everything else is very similar to the first rifle. It has a 42" barrel with .32 cal. bore and 7 groove rifling. Shelby Gallien
(https://preview.ibb.co/cQZ0jz/aaa_front_half.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g9LvHK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/nKwrre/aaa_butt_rear.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jaAvHK)
(https://preview.ibb.co/j7ZNxK/aaa_front_full.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ezwrre)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mKW2xK/aaa_nosecap.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ebYFHK)
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Here are a few more details of the second southern rifle by an unknown maker...also unsigned like the first rifle. Shelby Gallien
(https://preview.ibb.co/iSVg9z/aaa_guard.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j64V2K)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gFh6be/aaa_lock.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gNQ3NK)
(https://image.ibb.co/mZDONK/aaa_frt_site.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j8c6be)
(https://image.ibb.co/iVoZUz/aaa_rear_site.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSHiNK)
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I believe I like that nose cap better than any other one I’ve ever seen! Surely these two rifles were made by the same hand- but whose and where?
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They are like two peas in a pod...now we need to find out if the farm they grew up on is on the north or south side of the Ohio River. I am hoping by posting this second rifle by the same hand, that it might jog someone's memory we haven't heard from yet. I do find it interesting the two lock plates were from different gun/hardware shops but both in Cincinnati; kind of ties the maker in pretty close to that area in my mind. These are two nice rifles that really deserve to be identified. Shelby Gallien
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They are like two peas in a pod...now we just need to find out if the farm they grew up on is on the north or south side of the Ohio River. I am hoping by posting this second rifle by the same hand, that it might jog someone's memory we haven't heard from yet. I do find it interesting the two lock plates were from different gun/hardware shops but both in Cincinnati; kind of ties the maker in pretty close to that area in my mind. These are two nice rifles that really need to be identified. Shelby Gallien
Great work and a little luck! Thanks for keeping your eyes open and sharing this one. Next one might just have signature and that would be a clincher if it is obviously related as these two!