I'm having a heated discussion about Pyrodex being more corrosive than black powder. I'm on the side of black powder of course.
I can show lots of opinions taking my side but the other side can do the same. Does anybody have any scientific proof that Pyrodex is more corrosive than BP?
Ok OldMtnMan here is a thread that should help your "discussion": http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=38532.0
Have fun.
Dennis
Not scientific, just my own observation, Pyrodex is far more corrosive than real BP.
Years ago,Lynton McKenzie had a set of barrels from a double barrel shotgun that
had been reamed to the point of being a threat if fired with anything.
He loaded black powder,GOEX in one barrel and Pyrodex in the other as blanks and
fired them. A few days later he said the barrel fired with black powder was cleanable
and the Pyrodex barrel was destroyed.Turning to a verboten venue,I have seen brass turned
to a really weird shade of green with Pyrodex.WHY bother with it.Keep in mind also that
there are people who will argue with proven experience and nothing is settled.
Bob Roller
I'm having a heated discussion about Pyrodex being more corrosive than black powder. I'm on the side of black powder of course.
I can show lots of opinions taking my side but the other side can do the same. Does anybody have any scientific proof that Pyrodex is more corrosive than BP?
Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this stuff? https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/07/25/alliant-black-mz-range-test-review/
Dennis
Hey Bill, I think they put the chlorides back into 777 powder. I just checked the SDS for Pyrodex and 777 and they both have potasium percholrate.
Give that Pyrodex to a inline shooter. ;D
Give that Pyrodex to a inline shooter. ;D
Or !
Here in the city we sometimes have problems of colonies of mice living under cement pads or short stairs in our back yards. A few ounces of Prodex in a sandwich back and 6 inches of cannon fuse into the bag. Light the fuse, stuff the bag in the hole and sit a brick over the hole. The cyanide will take care of the entire mouse population in the in-ground colony.
Bill K.
The stuff that was a modified nitrocellulose powder was sold as Blackhorn 209. I suspect that the 209 designation meant only 209 shotshell primers would light it off.
Bill K --- our club has recently allowed inlines in the unlimited class. I have noticed when they go off, in addition to hurting my already damaged ears, with earplugs and muffs,btw, the fumes almost make my lungs lock up, and I smell the odor that acc glue puts off when it gets too warm,I already have copd courteousy of Uncle Sam and asbestos,and I guess I will have to clear leave firing line when these guys are shooting.
Big question is, how much risk are the shooters putting on themselves,and the rest of us?
Thanks for your knowledge and frankness. Best regards, Dave f 8) 8)
Give that Pyrodex to a inline shooter. ;D
Or !
Here in the city we sometimes have problems of colonies of mice living under cement pads or short stairs in our back yards. A few ounces of Prodex in a sandwich back and 6 inches of cannon fuse into the bag. Light the fuse, stuff the bag in the hole and sit a brick over the hole. The cyanide will take care of the entire mouse population in the in-ground colony.
Bill K.
Thanks Bill - you are indeed, a National Treasure of knowledge on this stuff.
We are in debt to you and your willingness to help us poor sods.
I was hoping my post at the top of this page, would elicit a response from you to further educate us.
"While I shot it a few times in my testing comparing it to black powder the Pyrodex did serve a useful purpose in areas where black powder was almost impossible to buy." ...MM
That's exactly why I started using it in the first place (not much powder of any kind available locally) in spite of the difficulty of removing its residue from my bbl.s Oddly enough, Pyro RS produced accurate results for me, especially so in my fast twist rifle with home cast Maxi-Ball bullets (T/C mould).
Further to that, some 17% by weight per charge is now perclorate, seems to me, whereas as noted
by Bill, just a fraction of a grain weight - back in the day, made corrosive primers that rotted barrels.
So - your 70gr. Pyrodex load contains almost 12 grains of perchlorate.
I'm a little slow on the uptake. So help me here...
Pyrodex is bad. I've garnered that much.
If you are doomed to only being able to buy subs, are you better off using 777?
Mike
really, just say NO to any phony powder. not at all hard to say, or do.[emphasis added]
for the very most part, real bp can be mail ordered. it's how most of us get it, one way or t'other. if there are parts of the states that make bp illegal to own and use (really?) that's a totally different story entirely. other than that, you can find it and get it. didn't say it would be easy and where there's a will there's a way.
for the very most part, real bp can be mail ordered. it's how most of us get it, one way or t'other. if there are parts of the states that make bp illegal to own and use (really?) that's a totally different story entirely. other than that, you can find it and get it. didn't say it would be easy and where there's a will there's a way.
Exactly. There are extremely restrictive jurisdictions in these very United States, and as well there are a good number of folks here who do not live in these United States. I cannot speak with veracity of their restrictions or viable work-arounds, but that some of those folks may not be able to mail-order as many of us obviously do.
Some folks go to great lengths to get real powder. Others don't (assuming legality), mostly because they don't know how despicable perchlorates are, or because they do not understand how to get 3 or 6 guys together and make a mail-order purchase that seems "affordable" to them all. I agree some don't "try hard enough", but that there are others who actually cannot get it.
Speaking of "economy" if folks would BUY IT at the stores who offer it up locally, less of them would quit handling it. But there we go again pinching pennies in the wrong places. They tell me that some of the big catalog-type stores have some in the back, but you must request it as they don't advertise this fact. I don't know I never shop those places-and if I do it's never for guns or related.
I hold that the more folks understand perchlorated powders, the more folks will TRY HARDER to acquire BP rather than destructive and toxic concoctions for propellant. Ignorance is not a crime (stop believing advertisers is a big step), if we can help reduce such, then eventually the steel-destroying perchlorates will become unprofitable and disappear. But we have to spread the word to those who will listen.
If I ever get my hands on some more perchlorate-rich steel eater, I'll make a video. Seems that kids these days believe only the youtube. But don't hold your breath (unless in the presence of cyanide-rich fumes of Hodgdon's formula) for me to make the video as I'm not in any hurry to find any Pyro-stuff. I sure as shanties won't be buying any at retail. Won't need much.
I can buy the minimum amount of Goex at Graf's (5lbs) and even with Hazmat fees and shipping charges it still comes out cheaper than going to a local shop and buying T7.
I know one restriction on selling BP is it has to be kept in a safe. Our local shop used to carry it until they came up with this law. He said he didn't sell enough to make it worth it.
Boy, I’d like to know where these “highly restricted” areas are. I live in California, where our restricted areas, have restricted areas, and I can get powder mail order.
Hungry Horse
Mike,
I think to answer your question, yes 777 is a better option than Pyrodex if BP is not available; from the perspectives of corrosion and toxic gases.
The storage requirements for BP are ridiculous and unnecessary. To buy BP they have to leave the building and open a locked bunker? Meanwhile, on your way to the register you can grab a can of Coleman fuel and propane off the shelf.
I can only get BP from small shops in PA.none of the big stores ever bother with it that I know of.
.... I think if BP could improve its availability it would take a big market share. ...
Something else just came to mind, "sparked" by a comment we often hear regarding B.P being hydroscopic. It really isn't to any great degree. The fouling is. That said, I can say from experience that Pyrodex [ unfired] is hydroscopic . You need to seal the container well. The same is true of some of the other substitute powders. Not a good thing.
Bill,
Can I ask a couple of questions about real powders?
I always wondered how Swiss powder achieved the power it has over powders like Goex/ Are there any extra ingredients added?
The same question about Olde Eynsford since it's very close to the same price as Goex and made by the same company. Yet, it almost has the same power as Swiss. Anything suspicious about the ingredients?
I have been told that Alder buckthorn makes the best charcoal for BP... And that is what Swiss uses exclusively.
Mike
Have been using Pyrodex combined with black powder in 50 cal. flint rifle with great ignition performance. Target load of 15 grains black powder (3 f) down the bore followed by 40 to 50 grains Pyrodex 3f equivalent ignites with no delay. Priming is 3f black powder. Have noticed that this hybrid powder mixing is more difficult to clean. Also leaves behind some barrel rusting. Black powder not available in my area thus necessitating the hybrid load. Has Pyrodex (a Hodgdon company) ever responded publicly to this rusting problem? Seems like they should as a responsible supplier to the muzzle loading community.
why not?
... But now that GOEX is owned and operated by the Hodgdon Powder Company I avoid it. I have discussed it in private but now avoid it publicly.
Bill K.
I can change the title Wade. What would you like?
why not?... But now that GOEX is owned and operated by the Hodgdon Powder Company I avoid it. I have discussed it in private but now avoid it publicly.
Bill K.
I am very lucky. I lkive about 15 miles from Dixons and Cabellas is just a short hop North on Route 61 here in Berks County PA.
Far be it from me to know exactly Bill's reasons, but this comment a couple of posts up tells me enough.
Thanks Bill. That's all the push I needed to change to Swiss (that H owns G now). The bigger the companies get the less options we have. Diversify your spending yo.
By the way rfcbuf, where is "your area"? There has been strong implications in this thread that no one lives beyond the reach of mail-order. Do you live where you cannot mail-order powder, and have no Bass Pro or other big store- those that stock BP, but tells no one of it?
mods/OP:
It would be GREAT if we could now modify the title of the thread with such good info hidden under the "p-word".--make title searches great again--