AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: rich pierce on October 15, 2018, 05:52:24 PM
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For some didly work like filing a bridle or facets on a ramrod pipe, or making s front sight, or such small work, my good 4” bench vise and my cheapo “parrot” vise are not ideal. Maybe I should get new, non-knurled jaws for the machinist vise, but still, the jaws are so flat topped and big that approaching small work with a file is challenging sometimes. The parrot vise gives better clearance but it’s just not precise and work slips.
What sort of vise do you use for small work?
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I use needle nose vice grips held in place with my larger vice. I've also used two thin but sturdy pieces of steel pinched in the vice holding small object to be filed above the vice so I can get to the piece clear of the vice jaws.
Jeff
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I've got a "Nut & Saddle vise" (modified drill press vise) from StewMac.com (luthier tools) for stuff like that... 2" wide smooth jaws that open to 2 7/16"...
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
(https://image.ibb.co/imhri0/Nut-and-Saddle-Vise.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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I have several of these. (https://i.postimg.cc/13pTKCdF/1-1-1-jewelers-vise.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
And I have a 2" vise that is mounted on a piece of 2x12 that is about 16" long. This one sits on the bench and is easily moved around. It also works pretty good sitting in my lap in the den.
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I have a few different sizes of Starrett Parallel Jaw clamps that I use to grab ahold of small work and then I put this clamp in my vise to work on it.
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/161A
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This is really an intermediate solution, but is worth mentioning as I use it all the time: bar clamps.
The aluminum tubular type but with Modifications. Boxed sections clamp easier than round.
The primary modification is to fill the void with a bit of wood per Paul Sellers' vids. Secondary is jaw padding-suit yourself. When you fill the box-section tubing with a bit of wood it becomes MUCH more rigid and easily clamped without damage in a larger vise (padded jaws). These open up a few more holding options, and they're inexpensive.
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Check Harbor Freight or MSC tools for a small machinist vise. I got three different sizes and all work well and will not break the bank. They also carry some small vises that you can clamp to a bench.
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For small stuff, filing\sanding\polishing furniture I use a Panavise. The vice is also strong enough to hold your long rife at the muzzle end while your buttstock is held by your main vise. The nice thing about it is it's ability to rotate into almost any position. A slight negative is the plastic jaw ends can be what I would say on the "softer" side. But the plus about that is you don't mar your work. Oh.....WalMart $50.
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/e59aa814-a5bb-479b-bf5c-ce42491e8b8d_1.83159b91fe7c79626714d429d3fb96cc.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)
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Rich...I agree that the Parrot vice slips and for much of the work is useless. My Starrett vice w/ smooth jaw inserts is normally used for the finer work but at times I clamp my toolmakers vise in it. Because of its weight, sometimes I just use the toolmakers vise alone on a table or bench. I made this vise when in my apprenticeship....along w/ many other very accurate tools......Fred
(https://preview.ibb.co/fqe2qf/P1010020.jpg) (https://ibb.co/duvaAf)
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I have four or five small cheap cast iron vises I’ve picked up at garage sales for next to nothing. None have replaceable jaws, and most of them were damaged. They are the best raw material for all kinds of “ new tools”. One I use exclusively for forming ramrod pipes. I even made a set of replacement jaws to form ribbed tradegun pipes for this vise. Another one became a gang old for buckshot.
I virtually never pass one of these little vises up.
Hungry Horse
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I would like to see the setup for making ribbed trade gun thimbles. I have some super think brass sheet stock set aside for that purpose.
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Rich, I have a couple of set ups I use for "hard to hold" items.
For thimbles, I took a 6" length of 3/8" CR, drill w/ tap drill for 1/4-20, 1" deep, then tap 1/4-20 using a 4 flute tapered(starter) tap to 3/4" deep. I make 2 cuts, 90 degrees apart using the jewelers saw to the 1" depth, run a 1/4-20 capscrew in the end. clamp the mandrel in the vise, slip the thimble over top and tighten the capscrew. Works amazingly well.
(https://preview.ibb.co/fwwG0f/P1000595.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kCJkt0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gFdULf/P1000592.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mOH0RL)
For filing decoration and such on thimbles, I made this little fixture using some 3/8 all thread
(https://preview.ibb.co/hPsjmL/P1000590.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kU3qRL)
For the small item such as sights, barrel lugs - I use this tool I had in my box from a former life as a maintenance tech in a brewery. We would make these when the lines were running well. They are for pulling table top conveyor chains together to install pins. Fortunately, I never threw it out. Works great for holding and filing sights and when I flip it over I can file dovetails for sights, lugs, etc..
(https://preview.ibb.co/cMwKmL/P1000596.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b4ng0f)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fSuiD0/P1000598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/euJAt0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jddAt0/P1000600.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dy8off)
(https://preview.ibb.co/eoH3D0/P1000601.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j5dX6L)
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I don’t have pictures of the ramrod pipe vise. But , it is another small vise. It is only used to press the ribs in the pipe material, the forming is done on my regular bench vise. Since the vise is so small, it would not be suitable for working with heavy sheet metal. I make my trade gun pipes out of fairly thin brass shimstock. The ribs give them rigidity.
Hungry Horse
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I have put cardboard into the jaws of my 4" vise to hold delicate parts, and I've often used vice grips, either stuck in the vise or held in one hand, also padded with cardboard. Also use drill press vises sometimes.
I agree with PW Bertuka that Harbor Freight has some cute little vises for cheap that would make dandy tools for small stuff and probably hold up better than one might think for light work. I know I love their little anvil (15#) for use on a benchtop for peening soft rivets and the like, too, so check that out.
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Panavise at work:
(https://i.imgur.com/6JFb8qA.jpg)
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Seek, and ye shall find! Good stuff.
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This set up works well for me.
(https://preview.ibb.co/inDoff/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cWrKmL)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mrrKmL/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fSns6L)
Jeff
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You guys make some excellent jigs.
I was soldering some ramrod thimbles tonight and used a couple tiles to hold the tabs together without drawing heat. It went fast and smooth.
(https://preview.ibb.co/hZ9BGL/2-A86852-C-DABD-4216-B6-D2-33-ED0318-E983.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gdQkbL)
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Sorry guys but in my book, the vises you’ve shown aren’t cheap, or particularly small. I think you guys are missing the boat on this one. The vises that I pick up cheap are usually of the imported clamp down variety, and have jaws of three inches or less. Plates can be bolted down on the top of the jaws, and bored for holding pegs, to hold odd shaped parts. This even works as a small engraving vise. Grind or bore the jaws mating faces to make forming tools, or molds for casting lead, pewter, or silver.
Hungry Horse
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To hold small parts for grinding or polishing, I use an old door hinge with a bit of leather padding, and a screw and wingnut for tension.
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You guys make some excellent jigs.
I was soldering some ramrod thimbles tonight and used a couple tiles to hold the tabs together without drawing heat. It went fast and smooth.
Great idea Rich. Going to give that a try.
dave
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I use a hand vise or small parallel clamps
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I could not find a pic of my vice that is mounted to a piece of 2x12, but is was similar to this one. It has a small vise, and a small anvil mounted on the 2x12. I had about 6 drilled holes, that I could stick screwdrivers and small files in. On the bottom was 2 strips of carpet, and I could add a piece of 2x4 so that I could mount it on a larger vise.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mDJKB0vh/1-1-1-1-jewelers-tool-a.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Cool stuff indeed
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These are the little vises that I use for filing small parts. I also showed mandrels that I use to hold thimbles for filing.
(https://preview.ibb.co/cDY0vf/Vises-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hVuUo0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kSbLvf/Vises-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e8W9o0)
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Mark, I have a couple of hand vises like yours that I find indispensable for small work. I picked mine up from eBay pretty cheaply. I also use a small, clamp-on vise for lots of stuff, including the “third hand” I use to help support the end of the rifle that’s not in my stocking vise. I’m not sure a guy can have too many vises (vices, maybe... :o)
Greg
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A small vise.
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Guys,
I'm with Mark Elliot, the old and original are still great! Here is the small vice I use most of the time, it includes the dimples on the left side for a bow drill. Probably late 18th c or early 19th c - still good.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Box/Box12.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Box/Box12.jpg.html)
[(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/drills/100_4867a.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/drills/100_4867a.jpg.html)
For tiny parts I have what looks like a small hand vice, but with a clamp to use it as a tiny bench vice. This is also late 18th c or early 19th c - a beautiful tool.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Misc%20Tools/100_4947a.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Misc%20Tools/100_4947a.jpg.html)
Jim
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Nothing beats a small, high quality vise. The moving jaw must stay parallel with the front jaw when tightened, moving jaw must not lift when vise is tightened. Otherwise, the work will squirt out the top of the vise while milling or drilling. But if you have a big drill press table, get a big vise, as the jaws open wider, and are deeper. This larger size not only gives you more capacity, but holds the work more securely, ensuring YOUR safety as well as that of the workpiece.
You need to get the work up near the top of the jaws so you can see what you're doing. But how do you hold a tumbler from tipping as you apply drill pressure? Support pieces, called parallels, are used under your parts.
Sets of parallels and various packing pieces for the vise are essential. I have a set that runs from 1/2" tall to 1 3/4" tall, all of them are 1/8 thick.
Lathe tool bits make good parallels, coming in squares from 1/8" sq to 3/4" sq and larger.
You can paw through your scrap bin and find shorts of steel or aluminum that are parallel sided.
Shaped or tapered packing pieces are useful for holding a barrel surface level so you can install a vent liner without the barrel moving on you. (of course you must support the other end of the barrel.)
Eventually you'll want a tipping vise so you can tweak those lock bolts thru at just the angle you want. ;D
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I just use a small clamp-on vice I picked up somewhere. I like that I can remove if from the bench to keep the space open. More infrequently I use a antique handheld vice like others have pictured.
(https://preview.ibb.co/g6xxy0/IMG-1646.jpg) (https://ibb.co/i2gPd0)
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I bought this little vise at Harbor Freight. It is very versatile. It swivels both vertically and horizontally. The small jaw has no teeth on the face. The jaws are fairly square. It can be permanently mounted or temporarily as I have shown here. Best of all it retails for $20.00.
I had a 25% off coupon when I bought it. One of the best things I have ever bought there.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gO6Y80/1016181035.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b7k4Ff)
(https://preview.ibb.co/iLP380/1016181036a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bG15ML)