AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: rich pierce on October 22, 2018, 04:00:34 AM
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George Shumway published this rifle in Muzzle Blasts, June 2001. It has an engraving on the buttplate “ J. Fenimore Cooper”, proposed to have been added when the relic was acquired by or given to the author of “Last of the Mohicans”. Some say it was found in upstate NY and therefore might be fitting for one of the novelist’s characters. It is not clear to me if it was stocked here or in Europe but the wood looks like cherry to me, but George called it maple. The wood has almost no apparent pores. I suppose apple or pear is a possibility but maybe I should just trust George’s conclusion that it is stocked in very plain maple. The barrel is 35.75” long and is .53 caliber, swelling enormously at the breech. The buttplate is 2 and 3/16” wide. It has a round-faced Germanic flintlock and the furniture is extensively engraved. I had not seen the carving until I got to handle the rifle late this summer. I apologize for the snapshots. On these unsigned early rifles it seems difficult to impossible to truly know their origin. George estimated that it was made before 1740. Mercy. I do not know if it’s even possible that it was stocked here at such an early date, or if it is much more likely that it was imported. Carving seems very unusual. The pace where a sideplate should be is carved instead. Some of that may be post-build, “in use” adaptation.
The carving fire and aft of the cheekpiece is not what I’d expect on a European gun or any gun. It is odd and seems out of sync with the carving around the comb and tang and trigger. The cheekpiece May have been modified also in use. It is nothing like what I’d expect on a 1740s rifle. Any thoughts?
(https://preview.ibb.co/n5jfqf/CC3-EF3-DB-F118-42-A7-AB7-D-1996-ABDB8083.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kPQ9i0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cqXpi0/C5-A321-FD-74-B0-4-FB0-8-B4-E-361-F74-EDF540.jpg) (https://ibb.co/edYJbL)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ig0aO0/0-A7-F6-A45-F153-4-F8-D-9-F28-D711-CD199692.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cumFO0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jrCYAf/18-AC5-CC4-0929-490-B-BE5-D-6680-BB97-BC17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gXKDAf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kfpDAf/3-B20-B56-E-60-C2-482-F-B457-1-C6-CAB36-EFE9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mCQmVf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mkd6Vf/18-AF769-B-6-BF2-4-D06-9911-14-AB930-EC427.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n2ojGL)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ksFaO0/6-E381-C53-2658-4153-BFB4-30-E88289-EB8-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mQq9i0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ekxYAf/C9-DB8542-774-A-4-AA8-802-D-438-BD617-CB0-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j920qf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mbDUi0/35-F7-CEA5-CA91-4471-9063-2894055-B57-EB.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n9p230)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fcVLqf/71-E9-A742-51-C2-4956-82-AC-800350-DCAE50.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gJprwL)
(https://preview.ibb.co/degh30/B96-C0910-72-C2-439-C-860-E-9081998-D58-DC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kEvWwL)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gdXN30/D98-D8-B8-A-0-DF1-4-D4-A-AC06-95-A9727229-E2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iTHYAf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gOHYAf/C9252-DBB-E468-4-D24-81-F3-21-BF4-D926-A00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bV5ybL)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cwcN30/7-EB584-AF-4-B55-4-D73-B77-A-0050-ED3-C210-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iqZfqf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fxx0qf/B42-BD723-980-C-407-C-98-CD-87077497-B671.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nuc0qf)
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8) 8)... Old one for sure,... !!! .... However, I recall the Huron using the French name," Le Long Carebine " for ol' Natty,... seems like his rifle would have been longer,...??
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It looks like fruitwood to me, also. I really think it's a somewhat provincial German piece and I also strongly suspect some of the carving is old, but secondary, work.
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I agree with Eric, but would like to see some good clear overall photos.
Some convincing early volutes there, more or less Mannerist.... Some detail I've never seen before.
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I'd bet Euro as well, out in the sticks somewhere. I would also agree it's possible that there were some later embellishments that possibly uglied it up more than pretty-ied it up. Interesting none the less.
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Y’all should check out Shumway’s article. He has full length views of the patchbox side. I’m always a little queasy about posting published stuff here for discussion.
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The engraving on the butt plate is wildly incompatible with the early 19th century so I'm not sure the attribution can be taken too seriously. That said, I see no reason to believe it is anything except a European rifle although that certainly doesn't preclude it being found in upstate New York. There is a "but" in this... Cooper was a well to do New Yorker - something of a toff from the city who was fascinated by colonial history. There is nothing wrong with that but his method of gathering information was to travel upstate and take the locals out to drink. I'd guess they saw him has a soft touch and told him what they knew he wanted to hear.
Oddly enough, I have a huge ornamental pear tree on my property. (Probably planted in the 19th century and never trimmed as it should have been). Pear is fairly brittle and one of the big limbs came down last winter. I have cut most of it up and yesterday I tried splitting it... boy is it tough! I can see why it was suitable for gunstocks. Very plain, light colored with a very dense and straight grain structure. It was actually tougher to split than Black Locust.
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Based on style of engraving of J. Fenimore Cooper on the buttplate, when would you estimate that engraving was added to the rifle?
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I'd guess the very late 19th or early 20 century. The typeface looks familiar (I'm actually a typographer by profession) but I'd have to go through piles of old type books to identify it.
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Hi Guys,
Also remember the scandal of Kimbal Arms and the engraver "Teff".
dave
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Here is a pic I took at the CLA meeting in August.
I am sorry I didn't take any closeups of the details.
The rifle blends into the rug in the background, too.
(https://preview.ibb.co/mJWvrV/DSC-8010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fPac5q)
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Pear wood has a history of being used for the "wooden" golf clubs, because of it's density and toughness - as noted, it is very hard to split. Takes a very nice finish without too much trouble. I can see it being used for a gun stock.
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Pear was known as a choice wood for pattern makers and also for ink block printing due to its hardness, fine grain and ability to take fine detail. It was also a favorite for tool handles.
I had some experience working it as a teenager when dad and I cut down the old pear tree in the backyard. That tree was at least 75 years old and 50 feet high. I took a slab of it cross section from the trunk and took a 2inch belt sander to it with 60 grit. It felt as smooth as if I hand used a bench plane on it.
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You guys have got me thinking... I don't think I'll use the pear wood for the stove. I'm not sure what I'll use it for but it seems "too good to burn". Fortunately, the chainsaw broke down before I could cut too much of it up.
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I had a friend who used to make quite a few powered horns and his favorite woods for the plugs were apple and pear. Turned on a treadle lathe and he said the same thing - they took great detail, worked very well.
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I used pear wood that I purchased at our local lumber yard, cut it into strips and made the blocks for my model of Royal William c 1719, 104 guns 1st Rate Ship of the Line. I used tiny chisels I made out of hacksaw blades to cut the strop notches and differentiate the sheaves. The wood is so dense, that no grain is appear-ant. I stained them with alcohol dye and burnished them with a stiff tooth brush - no other finish required. Just another fine use of pear wood.
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J F Cooper traveled to Europe at least once. He might have bought a rifle while there :-\
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What about Rachel Hays Walker's writing that she and her brother John gave Cooper their dad's rifle? Her family, for generations, was from Virginia, not New York or Germany.
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The typography on the butt : I would agree with JV Puleo and say that it has a more "victorian" era or later, feel to me. I am a graphic designer and dabble with typography every day, as well as a student of old typography styles. I am no historical expert though.
Ken
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What about Rachel Hays Walker's writing that she and her brother John gave Cooper their dad's rifle? Her family, for generations, was from Virginia, not New York or Germany.
A number of arms develop very interesting "stories" conveniently around the time they go to auction or are sold to collectors. I am not saying whether the story is accurate or not because I don't know. However, it doesn't change my opinion that it's a German gun and was not made here. All manner of imported arms were available for sale here from a very early date, and I'm sure some (not many, but probably very small numbers) may have accompanied particular immigrants.
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"appear-ant"