AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: jamned on November 01, 2018, 08:38:57 PM
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I have been reading everything I can find on John Shell. Seems there were at least two of them making flintlock rifles. One in Pa, one in Ky. I think my rifle was made by John Shell of Shellsville, Pa. Here are some pics, hoping to get some comments to ID this maker. Lock is marked, but the first letters not readable, only "HANTE & maybe an I". Could very well be a replacement lock. One person commented that the barrel is the only thing made by John Shell, the stock & other parts are by some one else. HELP! thanks, Jim.
(https://preview.ibb.co/nxBqyL/John-Shell-Rifle-001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kHsKsf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dzb150/John-Shell-Rifle-002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eWBZQ0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bK8QXf/John-Shell-Rifle-003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kgg150)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jgMqyL/John-Shell-Rifle-004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bEpzsf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/nETsCf/John-Shell-Rifle-006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mhsKsf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gLbCCf/John-Shell-Rifle-008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/chpXCf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gaw7dL/John-Shell-Rifle-009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/evdaXf)
(https://preview.ibb.co/f2q0yL/John-Shell-Rifle-010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dUESdL)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mdLpsf/John-Shell-Rifle-012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mumjQ0)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cnYaXf/John-Shell-Rifle-015.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hCc2Cf)
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John Shell made a Lot of rifles. Click on the link to see several here in the library.
I think at least one of these was only Shell parts, as he was a pretty good maker overall.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=43.0
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After looking at the guns in the Library, I think my rifle is an original Shell, with possibly some "work" done on it. The stock was repaired at the wrist. Not sure about the trigger, did not see one like it on any of the guns. Jim.
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Is your rifled numbered? John Shell of PA known, in part, because he numbered his rifles. I believe all that are in the ALR library are numbered up to #422 which is the highest we have seen. The butt stock form, patchbox as well as the side plate are more reminiscent of an Upper Susquehanna school. Please see "Joseph Long" in the Upper Susquehanna "wing" of the Bruce Miller ALR Library. Perhaps the barrel was original to another rifle???
I also have been told that was "an era" when many barrels were "signed" by "forgers" to enhance their "value."(Compare the barrel signatures in the rifles in the library.) Furthermore, I have been told it is almost impossible to set an old barrel into another old "originaL" stock barrel channel. ( How is the fit?)
Disregarding the maker/signature controversy, it is very nice rifle with a artistically carved buttstock.
Hurricane
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I own a SHELL & EARLEY rifle. It was originally flint and it has two lock screws with a full, numbered side plate.
(https://preview.ibb.co/huBd8L/5.png) (https://ibb.co/fNa5oL)
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jamned,
I must respectfully disagree with your assessment that this is an original John Shell rifle. As a descendent of Martin Shell, John Shell’s father, I’ve viewed and studied many rifles made by the Shell family of gunsmiths, particularly John Shell, the most prolific of the family.
Based on your photos, I believe you have a restocked rifle with some John Shell parts.
The barrel is likely a John Shell. The signature is similar to that of other John Shell barrels, though it appears to be missing the distinctive border usually found around his barrel signatures. Maybe this border is there or has worn off– I can’t tell from the photo.
The entry pipe and trigger guard may be John Shell’s work as both are similar to those on other of his rifles. However, that is questionable as both are lacking any engraving, particularly the engraved “star bursts”, commonly found on Shell’s rifles.
However, the patchbox is not John Shell’s work. The finial is unlike any I’ve seen on his rifles, both in terms of design and being attached with pins/brads.
The side plate is also unlike those found on John Shell’s l rifles. And it’s missing the number of the rifle, a practice Shell used on his rifles.
As you noted, the lock is a replacement. The single lock bolt would have been consistent with a percussion lock.
While your rifle is a restock, it’s a fine example of the long use and reliance on it by its owner. And it’s testament to John Shell that the owner would want to re-use the John Shell components they had on hand.
Bill
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Bill-52.
Thanks for your post on this rifle. It's the second learned opinion I received, almost the same comments. I will go with an original barrel & maybe some other parts as being Shell made. I did not mean to infer that my rifle was a original all John Shell, I was referring to the barrel only. I think the signature is original from what I have been told. Jim.
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jamned,
I meant to add that the border around the signature is on most, but not all, John Shell barrels. So it could simply not be on your rifle. I was focused more on the signature itself and the "cross" in the middle, both of which are consistent with John Shell's work.
Bill