AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Vicanddogs on December 04, 2018, 07:11:50 PM
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Do you think a .58 english sporting rifle would be enough gun for moose.
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Yes !HUNT CLOSE,,, If in doubt,, stay home,,Fire power, will never over come poor shot placement
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A hole through both lungs kills everything. Some more slowly than others but they all die. Do that with your weapon at the proper distance and you're good to go.
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Yes a 58 is OK for moose but as in any hunting, shot placement is key.
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Do you think a .58 english sporting rifle would be enough gun for moose.
What load with greased or oiled patch does it like best? 24 bore (.58) is a good size for NA large game.
Fellow a bit South of here got his bull a few years back, with a .50 round ball and only use something like
85gr. 2F. The moose took a step or maybe 2? and dropped - double lunged.
I generally like a bit more powder than that, to flatten trajectories. My slow twist .58's had a hankering for 140gr. 2F GOEX
1 1/2" to 2" at 100 yards of a rest.
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I am having trouble finding a component set larger than.58 in an English sporting rifle ( short,light rifle) Plan is for another trip to Nfl. The area we hunt can be very open would like the capability to kill a moose at 100 yds
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The last time I checked, Track of the Wolf had Rice 36" straight taper 58 and 62 cal barrels in stock. You could get them to rebreech it by cutting 6 inches off the breech end and instaling a new breech. They were 1&1/8 to 1"-36 in. long so your new dimentions would give you a strong 1" breech tapered to 1". This should make a somewhat light weight rifle.
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Do you think a .58 english sporting rifle would be enough gun for moose.
Is it original. If so what is the twist? If its contemporary and has a 66 to 72 twist it should shoot fine with 100-120 grains of powder to give a flat trajectory and will kill moose easily with decent shot placement. If its an original rifle with a fast twist the powder charge will be greatly reduced.
Dan
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I have never hunted moose or elk! Which is harder to kill?
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I have never hunted moose or elk! Which is harder to kill?
I’ve hunted both several times. They drop at about the same speed.
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It has been my experience that moose , if double lunged with a decent sized ball, will drop /travel a shorter distance than a whitetail deer. A bad shot /hit however , and they'll take off through the worst possible stuff for what seems like forever. Given a well placed shot, I think they are less tenacious of life than an elk. My Uncle shot a moose every year with an old surplus Snider rifle , and then later in life, with a 30-30. All shot within a 100 yards and never lost one .
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With every thing equal as far as shot goes it's MHO that moose give up before elk.
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More or less anything will knock a moose over if hit right.
An elk shows a lot less reaction to being shot, and is a good bit tougher to knock off his pins.
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With a poor shot on a moose, it will travel into the most miserable swamp in thirty seconds.
They can walk on bog like you can't believe. Many people I know, have hunted with a 30-30, no need for a .50 BMG.
Study anatomy of a moose and you will find it's weakest spot, definitely not the shoulder or back hips.
A moderately loaded .58 is great medicine for roast of moose.
All of the moose that I have shot were less than fifty yards.
A moose is not like a white tail deer, they can be cautious, but they fear nothing, and will go where ever they want.
They climb almost as good as a goat.
Good luck!
Fred
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I would like to thank everybody for their input. I talked with Dave Keck of Knob Mountain about a .62 cal. english sporting rifle. I think a stoutly loaded .62 is even better for moose meat. Off to find hardware for said rifle
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It has been my experience that moose , if double lunged with a decent sized ball, will drop /travel a shorter distance than a whitetail deer. A bad shot /hit however , and they'll take off through the worst possible stuff for what seems like forever. Given a well placed shot, I think they are less tenacious of life than an elk. My Uncle shot a moose every year with an old surplus Snider rifle , and then later in life, with a 30-30. All shot within a 100 yards and never lost one .
Bob nailed it, from my experience. Moose, if double lunged, or even one lunged, if not chased will lay down normally, within 50 yards of where they were hit, and die right there. Push them, however and you've screwed up royally. They then will match an elk for tough.
On the other hand, if not pushed, moose do not put up much of a fight- depends on how much you scare them, before the shot is made. If they are unaware of you, they will not go far before laying down.
An elk will go down quickly to a double lung, but for lord's sake - don't chase them. Give them at least a full 10 minutes, better yet, 15 minutes to die and stiffen up. The 'chase' will then be less than 100yards. Yes - I have heard of guys who say they lung shot elk and lost them after a 2 mile 'chase'. I don't believe that for a second - lost it after gut shot & chased it, yes. An elk of moose cannot run for 2 miles if it has holes through it's lungs, no more than you could.
A shot BEHIND the diaphragm that misses the liver - is a GUT shot. Make sure you do not over-reach your capabilities.
Most clients I have guided, thought they could out-run a moose after it had been holed. ::)
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Load up the heaviest load your gun, and shoulder, can tolerate, get close ( a hundred yards or less), shot at the lower third of the area behind the foreleg.
Realize that when the moose hits the ground the fun is definitely over. You will likely do a major part of the butchering on the spot.
Oh, and remember that the butchering will take time, so shooting a moose late in the afternoon could mean you may have to camp on it to keep the big meat eaters from getting it. Good luck.
Hungry Horse
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I took a moose with my .62 Jaeger, prb with a heavy load of 2ff. I like my .62 but I think your .58 is very adequate.
A word of advice, carry a small block and tackle in your pack, it will prove invaluable.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shrewbows.com%2Frons_linkpics%2Fbuckskinner.jpg&hash=f2b9862f5f1a6ce5c5ee70d9f346139599d3dc10)
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Good "SHOT", Lobo.
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Pictures look familiar Ron. ;)
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Your .58 will do fine. Don't take a shot that you can't make, and put it in the vitals. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.
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Do you think a .58 english sporting rifle would be enough gun for moose.
Is it original. If so what is the twist? If its contemporary and has a 66 to 72 twist it should shoot fine with 100-120 grains of powder to give a flat trajectory and will kill moose easily with decent shot placement. If its an original rifle with a fast twist the powder charge will be greatly reduced.
Dan
Good point about original rifles. My Westley Richards stalking rifle was around 16 bore with a twist around 1 in 60. It shot best with 75 gr of Swiss 2F. The rifle was so light, that charge was murder off the bench.
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Taylor's Joseph Lang 16 bore rifle made an almost square group of 2 1/2" for 5 shots, at 100 meters (109yds) using 85gr. 2F GOEX. The twist in that barrel is 48".
My own 14 bore has a twist of 60" or 66" (GRRW of early 1980's) and does OK with 85gr. 2F for 1,225fps but prefers 140gr. 2F and maintains it's excellent sub 2" accuracy right to
200gr. 2F.
One must test his gun with different combinations.
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A word of advice, carry a small block and tackle in your pack, it will prove invaluable.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shrewbows.com%2Frons_linkpics%2Fbuckskinner.jpg&hash=f2b9862f5f1a6ce5c5ee70d9f346139599d3dc10)
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If you think spreading the hind legs on a white tailed deer is a bit of a challenge, wait till you try a moose.
That is where a block and tackle comes in handy.
Packing a 1/4 of moose is also an experience. Did I mention "ATV" are handy also..
Fred
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If you think spreading the hind legs on a white tailed deer is a bit of a challenge, wait till you try a moose.
That is where a block and tackle comes in handy.
Packing a 1/4 of moose is also an experience. Did I mention "ATV" are handy also..
Fred
Exactly the reason I recommended the block and tackle. ATV's are great for getting game out of the bush, but where I was an ATV would have had to be dropped off by helicopter. We were 40 miles by canoe into the bush. The meat had to be carried on our back 1/4 mile to the river to the canoes.....I was a lot younger 39 years ago. ::)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shrewbows.com%2Frons_linkpics%2FMoose_float2.jpg&hash=07eb79e93a5e570a864604b31c4f64c991829750)
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With moose or elk. The fun all ends when the animal hits the ground..! Oldtravler
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I don't even consider moose hunting now. My last one was a 6 month old bull calf, shot October 22nd. We (2 old !@#$%) had to cut it in 1/2 to put it into the back of the truck.
Too much work nowadays. A HUGE mule deer buck would have been smaller than that little bull which had 2" diameter leg bones.
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I've given up elk hunting too Daryl. Just too much work for my old worn out body.
Black bear with the occasional muley buck when I can get a tag. Mostly bear from now on.
I can't believe i'm done elk hunting but it had to happen someday.
Moose, elk, and bison are for young strong backs. I have a hard enough time hauling a plains rifle around these mountains.
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Taylor shot a buffalo last fall - YIKES - a mountain of meat - 2,000 pound animal.
I used to be able to have a moose calf, ready to load in 7 to 8 minutes and a bull moose in about 20 minutes.
My long-time moose hunting buddy could "do" a bull moose by himself in under 12 minutes - without skinning, of course.
Apparently, it took 3 hours to get that buffalo 'ready' for splitting up & they had a machine to hold it up.
When there are a few guys working on it, it goes much more quickly. That's buddy Keith with the big blade.
He had that back end done, both hind quarters off and loaded on the quad in the time the other guys had got the front end hide peeled back.
(https://i.ibb.co/Hh5smgR/DSCF0011-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5KbyqcC)
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I hunt for the meat, and since my wife is extremely fond of wild game, I don't imagine I'll be stopping any time soon. Big game is on my list precisely because it is big ...ie lots of tasty meat :D Yes, it is a lot of work, but, what's the hurry ?
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Yes, it is a lot of work, but, what's the hurry ?
Heat. Our muzzy hunt is mid Sept. Even at 11,000ft it can get hot. I hunt solo, so getting it out fast alone is a chore.
I could hunt for a calf elk, but I don't think I could shoot one. Shooting a cow is hard enough. I was brought up to just shoot bulls, bucks, and boars. However, dad wasn't hunting alone at my age. He had me and my brother to get the meat out. I have to make adjustments if I want to keep hunting. A calf is where I draw the line. Even though they're bigger than a muley buck it's still a baby.
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A .58 should be plenty adequate. Whichever you can shoot the best. This thread has runaway to moose hunting. May I suggest any potential moose hunters invest $10 or $12 in a CD "Field Care of Big Game" & "Is This Moose Legal" put out by the Alaska Dept. of Fish & Game. It is highly regarded in the states & provinces and $ well spent. LOBO was right about a block & tackle (if you have trees) and tundra is really challenging. Look again @ Daryl's moose photo and then try to imagine doing those chores in 4 or 5 feet of COLD water! Do not, DO NOT, shoot a moose in water and/or anchor him before reaching water.
Anyway, good luck in selecting your smoke pole and best wishes in upcoming hunts.
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Just going through rehab after a knee replacement and hope to go moose hunting at least one last time (hopefully maybe two more times) starting fall 2019. Chances are slim but you have to hope and dream I guess.
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Moose hunting is not much of a challenge. They don't fear humans and it's easy to get close.
Elk are more of a challenge if you don't call and I think the meat taste better.
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Moose hunting is not much of a challenge. They don't fear humans and it's easy to get close.
Elk are more of a challenge if you don't call and I think the meat taste better.
I totally agree with you. Finding the moose is the biggest challenge. The four years I hunted in Alaska the rule was either a spike, fork or 50" and the other place was 4 brow tines minimum. Finding one that fit the criteria could be difficult.
I used to hunt Caribou off of the Dalton Highway north of the Brooks Range in Alaska. It was illegal to shoot a firearm within 5 miles from the highway "which was a one lane dirt road" so we would hike and stay a few days on the North Slope. I don't even think I could make that trip anymore and I'm in decent health physically. The tundra is like walking on a water bed and in my opinion, September Caribou meat is not fit to eat.
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I'm with you on the caribou taste - cardboard, or sawdust - Blyet. August is the month most are killed in Northern B.C., with temps running 60F to 75F. same with mid August moose, when the season starts on the 15th. End of Sept is the moose rut, through 1st week of October, but they will come to the call in mid Sept. through to the 2nd week of Oct., generally. They run hard form the 20th Sept on and those moose oft times will have bright yellow livers- not fit for human consumption.
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Moose liver cooked with bacon and onions is a dish fit for Kings, and fortunately, we peasants get to partake ;D
I'm lucky to have moose right here where I live. My neighbour shot a nice sized calf this Fall. I had to content myself with black bear and deer, but the meat's in the freezer and we're ready for winter.
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We have moose too but it takes 20 years of saving points to have a slim chance at a tag.
Moose are a pain. Every time I see one it chases me.
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Taylor shot a buffalo last fall - YIKES - a mountain of meat - 2,000 pound animal.
I used to be able to have a moose calf, ready to load in 7 to 8 minutes and a bull moose in about 20 minutes.
My long-time moose hunting buddy could "do" a bull moose by himself in under 12 minutes - without skinning, of course.
Apparently, it took 3 hours to get that buffalo 'ready' for splitting up & they had a machine to hold it up.
When there are a few guys working on it, it goes much more quickly. That's buddy Keith with the big blade.
He had that back end done, both hind quarters off and loaded on the quad in the time the other guys had got the front end hide peeled back.
(https://i.ibb.co/Hh5smgR/DSCF0011-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5KbyqcC)
Fellas, you're going about it all wrong.
My native ancestors had it down pat... The men did the killing. The women took care of the rest. ;D
Mike
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I think the proper sequence is : Shoot moose, move camp to location of moose, stay there 'till moose is eaten. Repeat :)
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Quote
I think the proper sequence is : Shoot moose, move-**Family** to location of moose, stay there 'till moose is eaten. Repeat :)
Fixed your post as I see it, Bob!
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Your .58 will do fine. Don't take a shot that you can't make, and put it in the vitals. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.
Ted Williams shot his with a .58 ...
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I am with Mike from OK - and Creek (Muskogee) women really are a hand at skinning and cutting up fresh meat.
One of the many things I miss about OK. My buddy, Fat Boy, passed away this past year - his Mom could skin and butcher a white tail in about 15 minutes!
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I've killed 2 bison cows with a .58; one in UT and the other in WY, both with a .58. The load is 110gr fffg, heavy denim patch, & .575 round ball. Even with a great shot, the animal will not fall dead. It will run until it doesn't, however far that is. If you spook them, they won't run 100yds, stop, and look back; they will run a 1/2 mile or more and then stop to think about it. Even just walking they can cover a deceptively large piece of real estate over a short period of time. Shot placement is everything. If you read the old fur trade journals, you will learn that greenhorns commonly shot all of their balls into and around a bison without ever bringing it down. That's because a bison is a veritable mountain of meat with a relatively small kill zone. The heart of a bison is way down low in the front of the animal, right behind the front leg & so low that you are sure that you are about to shoot under them. That is especially true with that big, wooly, coat hanging down under them. I would keep my range at or under 100yds & use a good rest like cross sticks if you can. Even if they take off at a dead run, don't assume that you missed. Follow them up a mile or so and check for blood. I shot a little too far back on my first cow & liquified her liver. She still went nearly a mile before she died & lay down once leaving about a 4 foot wide blood spot before that. If your animal goes down in a herd, they will probably circle it & try to get it up by hooking it with their horns. The more blood they get in their noses, the more aggressive they get, so let everything settle down with the herd going away before you go to the animal. I saw a gentleman in UT get charged when the hunter headed over to shoo the herd away from a downed animal. No physical injury, mind you, but I doubt that he ever wore those skivvies again. If you have drawn a cow tag, by all means learn some field judging. We had to spend a day at BYU learning field judging of bison with DNR, and one poor guy still shot a yearling bull, mistaking it for a cow. Cows generally have necks and their horns tend to curl more than a bull's. Mature bulls look as if their heads are glued to the front shoulders and their horns tend to be more vertical/less curled for business. The shaggy belly tends to hide male genitalia, so plumbing may not help. The bad news is that young bulls and cows look a lot alike & it's easier to make a mistake than you might imagine. And take plenty of manpower, good sharp knives & saws, & something to sharpen the knives with. Hanging the animal is really helpful but is sometimes impossible. I like gutting, skinning a quartering one side & then rolling and repeating. If you're doing a ranch hunt, you don't have to worry about that. A good front end loader works wonders for skinning & dressing. Finally, if you can't get the hide to a tanner quickly, salt it heavily with rock salt & put it folded & angled downhill into about a 5 gallon bucket. You will be amazed at how much fluid comes out of it. Repeat again when the drainage slows or stops. That is pretty much all I remember, so I hope you have a great time & many good meals to come.
Roger B.
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Sorry. I saw the buffalo post & decided to write a book on buffalo hunting. I'm not the smartest guy ever born.
Roger B.
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Roger; This "thread" has kinda' gotten off track of moose, but you wrote a GOOD book. Some people want the buffalo horns, some the head on the wall, others want the robe and most all of them the meat, too. My nephew in Wyoming brought along a buddy and after tipping the animal over, wanted to experience and try to grasp the sheer physical demand (work) the old timers must've gone through in gutting, skinning & butchering a buff. Just trying to roll one over........
Anyway, enjoyed reading your "book".
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Well written and good info, Roger.
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Buff taken with a .62 smoothbore, 90gr's 2ff
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shrewbows.com%2Frons_linkpics%2Fronbuff_croppedx700px.jpg&hash=3256618493da986c7f961112c2bc50360cf2199c)
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Now there's some fine food.
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Young bulls and young cows. There is no better eating in game, in N.A.
Tipping over a full grown bull might not be possible for one man, without the use of sturdy trees and a block and tackle.
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I took a moose with my .62 Jaeger, prb with a heavy load of 2ff. I like my .62 but I think your .58 is very adequate.
A word of advice, carry a small block and tackle in your pack, it will prove invaluable.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shrewbows.com%2Frons_linkpics%2Fbuckskinner.jpg&hash=f2b9862f5f1a6ce5c5ee70d9f346139599d3dc10)
nice moose that's thing is big.
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His antlers now hang above the door of my shop
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shrewbows.com%2Frons_linkpics%2Fmoose-horns.jpg&hash=21c0813269b652f2d2edef8d23e5e97f74dac5e2)
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I have always wanted to hunt moose. Has any one hunted New Hampshire for moose?
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Well I think David Price has and got a record book bull with one of his double rifles.
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I looked into NH a few years back and they just have a general moose season. I would of course would like to hunt with a flintlock.
I would like to hunt the White Mountains. I think I will get on their website again. Don't know how many winters I have left.
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Don't know how many winters I have left.
I hear ya brother, I don't even buy green banana's any more :-\
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Don't know how many winters I have left.
I hear ya brother, I don't even buy green banana's any more :-\
True, but we end up eating a lot of rotten bananas.
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Smylee grouch
You are right, I was in the lottery for 18 years before I got my permit. The moose was the state record for muzzleloader. The rifle was a 54 cal swivel breach flintlock. The load was 90 grains of Swiss, the distance was 90 yards. The ball went through both lungs and was up against the hide on the other side.
We both fired at him and there was only one hole in the moose.....my son must have missed !!!
The state gave out 350 permits the year I got mine. Last year I believe they only gave out around 50.
The ticks are doing a number on the moose, and they don't need any permits.
David Price
(https://i.ibb.co/vjpRxz9/007-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LZmHzpK)
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Great job David er who ever got it! ;D I remember when you got it because I was on the phone with you a week or so before and you had been out scouting IIRC. Really a nice bull. :) John Richardson I think had given me your name for over/under info and that's how I got your contact info.
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That's an awesome bull David!
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Well done - that is a cracker of a bull!
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Here's a picture of a bull I shot in 2012. I was hunting with my .62 cal Hawken. I don't usually worry about 'horns' but I'm pleased with this one. He fed our extended family for two winters.
(https://i.ibb.co/2NFf1m8/DSC-0907.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HdKkf1N)
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Now you got me all fired up to go moose hunting again. The chance of getting another permit here in NH is not very good. I can't complain, I was on two other hunts with two of my friends and they also shot a nice moose. I built there rifles also, one was a 50 cal. the other was a 54 cal. All the moose died within fifth yards.
Taylor that was a fine moose.
David Price
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Thanks David I had forgotten the reason I didn't apply 5 years ago, TICKS!. I saw pictures of moose emaciated by ticks in New England.
Anyplace that has more ticks than Kentucky, I'm not going.
Beautyful Moose.
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No second chance in Colorado. We get to kill one bull moose here in our lifetime.
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Moose are actually easy to kill. Use enough ball to double lung them and if not chased, will be dead within 50 yards.
Chase after them and they can go far enough for you to lose em. They don't bleed out of the entrance hole and if you use a little ball,
it will not exit. My .69 didn't, however my buddy's .75 did until he dropped his charge to 120gr. 2F. Starting at 200gr. he was getting exits on quartering shots
with the 590gr. WW ball.
That moose of Taylor's is mounted on his living room wall.
Here's his guide, working on the rack in camp.
(https://i.ibb.co/nrYqxJw/100-2894-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v1TC0nc)
Here's another he got with that little .62.
(https://i.ibb.co/zF4YG1k/Screenshot2013-11-16at125030-PM-zps64bdc942.png) (https://ibb.co/pQL8Jgm)