AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: sqrldog on January 18, 2019, 01:30:33 AM

Title: John Bull rifle
Post by: sqrldog on January 18, 2019, 01:30:33 AM
One of the reasons I enjoy going to longrifle shows is getting to see original rifles.  The Al Ky show at Joe Wheeler State Park had lots of beautiful original rifle and some really nice contemporary work on display. One of the rifles that caught my eye was a John Bull rifle on Wayne Elliott's table. It is a really unique southern rifle. Wayne has graciously given permission to post some  of the pictures I took with my cell phone at the show. What first caught my eye was the really nice and different patchbox. The rifle also has keys instead of pins and silver escutcheons on the rear most key. A nice molding along the ramrod grove adds another artistic touch to this fine old rifle. Hope you enjoy the pictures. Any particulars as to cal. barrel length and width will have to come from Wayne.
(https://i.ibb.co/kH0q0gG/20190112-105921.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cgt2tcy)

(https://i.ibb.co/17rtpRj/20190112-110054.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0mCRWYv)

(https://i.ibb.co/Y3C0fcv/20190112-210706.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

(https://i.ibb.co/Qr8tnG0/20190112-110058.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m6vgt7p)


Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: sqrldog on January 18, 2019, 01:48:22 AM
More pictures
(https://i.ibb.co/VQ9psFS/20190112-110132.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Sdy7zkn)

(https://i.ibb.co/zGvfTHr/20190112-110114.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZWDTp1V)

(https://i.ibb.co/f1VHcVf/20190112-110109.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gjbJnbN)
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: mountainad82 on January 18, 2019, 03:26:21 AM
Fantastic rifle! Enjoyed examining it at the Alabama show. Thanks for the pictures.

Adam
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Cades Cove Fiddler on January 18, 2019, 04:15:31 AM
 :o :o :o... She is a very nice & different Tennessee rifle,.... not what you expect to see,... !!! ... thanx for pix,... did you get any pix of the "typical Tennessee"  Gross rifles,...? ...
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: sqrldog on January 18, 2019, 04:24:47 AM
CCF I did not get pics of the Gross rifles. I plan on doing a better job of taking pictures next time. Some really nice southern rifles at the Wheeler show. This rifle just sort of jumped out at me and I wanted pictures of it. Not your standard rifle for sure. Tim
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: WElliott on January 18, 2019, 07:10:45 AM
.47 caliber. 44Ē barrel. 
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Joe Schell on January 18, 2019, 11:59:23 AM
Very neat rifle
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Nordnecker on January 18, 2019, 03:50:46 PM
Thanks for showing these pictures.
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Mike Brooks on January 18, 2019, 05:39:11 PM
You guys figure the Bull gun was made in NC or AL? Anyway to tell or just pure speculation?
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: sqrldog on January 18, 2019, 09:36:56 PM
Mike I don't have the expertise to answer that question. Perhaps one of the collectors more knowledgeable would hazard a guess. Tim
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: WElliott on January 18, 2019, 11:36:06 PM
Mike, I donít know if anyone can answer definitively Tennessee or Alabama. ( John Bull moved from Tennessee to Alabama about 1823.) However, this rifle is inscribed ďJohn MooreĒ and Tim Hodges found a John Moore near where Bull lived in Tennessee. And I donít see this as a late rifle. I intend to research John Moore further. 
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Mike Brooks on January 18, 2019, 11:57:27 PM
Oh, TN I thought sure he started out in NC. Sure is a nice gun.
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Cades Cove Fiddler on January 19, 2019, 02:04:12 AM
 ??? ??? ???... where is the  patch-box release located,... ???
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: WElliott on January 19, 2019, 07:12:24 AM
I havenít been able to open the patchbox yet. It may be a hidden release under the toe plate that has frozen up. There are no release buttons and pressing on the sideplates doesnít work. 
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Cades Cove Fiddler on January 19, 2019, 07:15:55 AM
 :o :o :o...  WOW,...!!! .... good luck with that Wayne,... !!!
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: bgf on January 21, 2019, 08:14:33 PM
That is a nice Tennessee rifle, even if it ends up being from Alabama :)!  Thanks to you both for sharing.
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: RobertS on January 24, 2019, 05:48:42 AM
Thanks for sharing the pics.  That's very nice and I especially like that patch box.
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Greg Pennell on January 26, 2019, 02:26:58 AM
Thatís a dandy, for sure!  Is the forestock molding typical for Bull?  Itís surely a nice feature, and one I donít remember seeing on many (any?) other Tennessee guns.

Greg
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: BruceH on January 26, 2019, 03:27:55 AM
Try pressing one of the patch box screws.  It may be disguised.
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: wattlebuster on February 28, 2019, 03:17:25 AM
Im posting this on Tims thread at his request. I live about 5 miles from where John V Bull lived an built rifles up until his death. Its located in Bear Creek Alabama. I went by his grave today an was shocked to find it all grown up around it. I will trim this up very soon as I hate to see it like this. Anyway here is a few pics though they are bad ones. It with my phone an its was clouding up so please excuse the poor quality. His grave is on the exact spot of land that his home an shop was

(https://i.ibb.co/fFr4gBC/Resized-20190227-154917-7278.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mTh6j1H)

(https://i.ibb.co/PhkrVYN/Resized-20190227-154924-3272.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QN0Jxcf)

(https://i.ibb.co/hDFc35j/Resized-20190227-154939-5079.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f4d9jR5)
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Dan Breitenstein on February 28, 2019, 04:59:45 AM
Gorgeous!
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Joe Schell on February 28, 2019, 06:18:26 AM
Cool pictures. Its a shame nobody tends the grave.
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: David Rase on February 28, 2019, 05:11:33 PM
Tim,
I can't believe I missed this post.  Beautiful rifle.  Thanks for sharing.
David
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: mountainman70 on March 01, 2019, 05:42:15 AM
Im posting this on Tims thread at his request. I live about 5 miles from where John V Bull lived an built rifles up until his death. Its located in Bear Creek Alabama. I went by his grave today an was shocked to find it all grown up around it. I will trim this up very soon as I hate to see it like this. Anyway here is a few pics though they are bad ones. It with my phone an its was clouding up so please excuse the poor quality. His grave is on the exact spot of land that his home an shop was

(https://i.ibb.co/fFr4gBC/Resized-20190227-154917-7278.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mTh6j1H)

(https://i.ibb.co/PhkrVYN/Resized-20190227-154924-3272.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QN0Jxcf)

(https://i.ibb.co/hDFc35j/Resized-20190227-154939-5079.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f4d9jR5)

Wattlebuster, thank you for honoring him so. That is one of my favorite things to do for those long gone, and no one left to honor them. It started with my family, and just goes on . Best regards, great old rifle from a great builder. Dave / RedBear 8) 8)
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: sqrldog on March 01, 2019, 07:05:34 AM
Allen thanks for posting the pictures of the marker of the resting place of a great southern gunsmith. I appreciate it. If I was closer I would come help you tidy up his resting place.  Tim
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Jason C on March 01, 2019, 07:21:45 AM
Oh, TN I thought sure he started out in NC. Sure is a nice gun.


Well Tennessee was North Carolina until 1790 and even then wasn't a State until 1796.  ;)


I'm not sure how all the borders lay in the early 1800's but I think some of the Southern counties may still have been part of North Carolina. There are some old tombstone's around middle Tennessee that have early 1800's dates and North Carolina carved in them.



Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Robin Henderson on March 01, 2019, 04:27:21 PM
That one caught my eye at the show as well....very nice!
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Jbullgen3 on August 30, 2021, 07:24:07 PM
John V was my gggrandfather.I really appreciate Waddlebuster tending his gravesite and wish I was closer.My father told me that his father added the marker and also added an iron pipe railing around the grave.
(https://i.ibb.co/VmxyWbh/F493-E90-B-3-FFC-4661-B07-B-5-A99-C4-F14-B00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NSrh6fk)

(https://i.ibb.co/Jksf6TB/BBECFC10-5871-49-E1-A209-1-F0-BD0-DC0136.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Sv3hYgs)
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 31, 2021, 05:35:40 PM
I use a product called "stump killer" on privet bushes when I cut them off, they don't sprout back, I noticed some in the background of the grave. This tuff is a dilute version of the herbicide "Arsenal".
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: WadePatton on September 21, 2021, 10:40:07 PM
Who might know where this rifle is now? My good friend is wanting to get dimensions from it such that he might commission a close replica. Perhaps a record has been made already.

PM me for reasons of security and all.  Thanks
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Mac on September 23, 2021, 05:05:38 PM
Wade
Couldn't get PM to work, but that' s okay I love to share my treasures with everyone. I own the "Bull" for the second time in it's resent history.
If your friend is attending the Front Royal, VA show I can bring it along so he can get all the info necessary to recreate it.
Mac Spencer
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: WadePatton on September 24, 2021, 05:22:19 AM
Thanks Mac, have passed word along already. Sent a PM as well.
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: bama on September 25, 2021, 08:48:35 PM
Mac, I will be at the Front Royal show and would be happy to take pictures and measurements to share with those who are interested. I need to go visit the grave site also, it is about 2 1/2 hours north of me but would be worth the trip.

Jim
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: Mac on September 27, 2021, 04:48:29 AM
Jim, sounds like a plan, I'll have it there.
Mac
Title: Re: John Bull rifle
Post by: bama on October 31, 2021, 10:04:20 PM
I made the Front Royal show and Mac did have the rifle there and I took more pictures of this rifle and some measurements. I will try to get them posted soon.