AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Obi2winky on January 18, 2019, 07:38:45 AM
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Hi everyone,
I just received my very first kit, a Kibler Colonial! It was so securely packaged, I couldn't put all the pieces back in there the way Mr. Kibler shipped it.. haha I don't know anything about building rifles except for what I've read and seen in youtube, but even I can tell it's really high quality kit. I'm so happy to finally have it my hands!
I was looking over the overall kit and thinking ahead. There's a part of the stock where the lock and the barrel comes together where the wood is so thin, that part of the wood is missing. Is that something I need to fill up with some epoxy or do I leave it alone? I'm guessing that part of the wood really isn't going to take on any force, so it probably doesn't matter. But thought I'd ask for expert advise.
thanks!
(https://i.ibb.co/S5q8jwJ/IMG-9869.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7j75ftb)
(https://i.ibb.co/M7MWVG2/IMG-9870.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9WszTV8)
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Obi2winky... That is common on all longrifles… It is where the top of the mainspring sits. Your concern is understandable, but unwarranted. This area of the stock has some very thin areas. Do not remove them unless absolutely necessary. Kibler kits, as I understand them, are of the very highest quality, so progress slowly, and ask us lots of questions if you have them.
Matt
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That’s what I figured. Thanks for confirming that!
Towa
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to greatly strengthen any thin wood, wick in quality, hobby shoe grade water thin CYA (CYAnoacrylate glue, hobby shop brands such as "hot stuff"). do this after staining the wood. i also do this to the entire lock mortise and barrel channel, as a sealant and bp residue barrier.
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Obi, watch and follow Jim Kibler's videos under the tutorials. You'll be just fine. That is how I did mine and it came out very nice. If you have a problem or a question contact Jim. :)
Dave
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Every rifle I have built was either thin in this area, had a hole or two or had that piece of wood removed. When I inletted the lock if the mainspring blacked that little strip of wood it had to go. You don't want you mainspring touching wood. You may have to notch the barrel a little to accommodate the spring, I only had to to that one one build and not on the Kibler SMR I built.
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Just leave it alone, it's fine.
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Yeah, no worries at all. This is designed to be like it is. No corrective steps necessary. Your not the only one to ask this question. Can't tell you how many times customers have questioned this!
Good luck with your kit and thanks for the business. If you have any questions as you proceed, just give us a call.
All the best,
Jim
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Yeah, no worries at all. This is designed to be like it is. No corrective steps necessary. Your not the only one to ask this question. Can't tell you how many times customers have questioned this!
Good luck with your kit and thanks for the business. If you have any questions as you proceed, just give us a call.
All the best,
Jim
Thanks Jim, can’t wait to get started!
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Just about every rifle I build has the same hole. Sometimes I bevel the main spring slightly for more clearance.
Gus
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Just finished my .54 Kibler Colonial, and I assure you, you have the finest kit available. Have fun and enjoy the build. I am now saving to purchase a SMR for my daughter. Just an excuse to build another. ;)
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Just finished my .54 Kibler Colonial, and I assure you, you have the finest kit available. Have fun and enjoy the build. I am now saving to purchase a SMR for my daughter. Just an excuse to build another. ;)
I think I might need to build one of those for my daughter too :)
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Hi guys,
I've been slowly working on the kit and I've made some mistakes here and there but they haven't been that bad so far. until now...
As I was trying to drill through he front handguard tab-thing, my drill bit broke inside the stock. I tried to drill through from the lock side of the stock and that one broke as well... Probably a combination of poor quality drill bit kit and bad technique. Anyways, in the process, I made a ugly dent in the wood near the lock. Is there anything I can do about it beyond learn from it and just love it for what it is (my first build)? lol
Also, in the process of getting one of the drill bit fragments out, the pin hole in the stock ended up enlarging to a diameter somewhere in between 1/16 and 5/64. So I was thinking I can still salvage this if I can find a pin stock that's slightly larger. So far I'm only able to find it in 1/16" like Jim supplies with the kit. Any source of pin stocks that are slightly larger?
thanks in advance for any advice!
Towa
(https://i.ibb.co/WnKRfgd/dent.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LSps1nq)
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If your new to this Jim put some videos together on how to assemble his kits. They are on line.
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thanks in advance for any advice!
Before you try anything with a heat application, just dab some water on\over the dent. If the wood fibers are not broken, a simple application of water will cause the wood to swell back to where it was.
If the fibers are broken\torn, you will likely need to take a different approach and I'll let those with experience tackle that.
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Pin stock availble from some craft stores as piano or music wire. Shoul ha e your size. Some hardwares carry pinao wire also drill rod in small size. Small finishing nails work but are softer than I like to use.
Dennis
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For pins I use various sizes of hardware nails. I usually dip them in beeswax.
Don’t use nails made in China.
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I use various size nails from hardware store.
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Just incase you didn't find them:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=50252.msg498197#msg498197
Tim C.
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Any hobby store will have music wire in various sizes. I use 5/64" a lot. Bits flex a little less as well.
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#49 bit, #2 finish nail.
Kevin
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Try steaming the dent. Wet a patch of folded paper towel and place on the dent. Place the tip of a rather hot iron on the patch - don't press just make good contact. The steam will puff the wood back out quite nicely. It may take a few damp patches to get the job done.
Dents happen when building one of these things. Thankfully steaming them out generally works.
Gerald
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I had a similar horror story trying to drill through the front lug on a iron mounted English fowler trigger guard. Having only drilled brass lugs I thought I could easily pop a hole through the lug, first drill bit, "POW" it broke way down in the hole, second drill bit from the other side "POW" way down in the hole.
The trigger guard was now pinned with broken drill bits and wasn't coming out. I had yet to shape the stock and worse I had put a temporary phillips head screw to hold the back part in place, It was under the bow and I couldn't get to it to remove it.
I finished shaping the entire underside of the gun around the trigger guard and wrist with a small riffler file and sandpaper, it took forever.
A few days later a guy on here said to go buy a 1/16" carbide tipped bit, put it in the hole and let it eat with only the weight of the drill motor pushing it down.
I was sceptical, but did as he said. After a full 15 minutes of running the drill I saw a metal chip come out of the hole, a couple minutes more and the bit went through the lug and I could remove the trigger guard.
I found the trigger guard steel was so hard that I struggled to drill it with a new bit in my drill press. I soldered on a new mild steel lug and completed the job.
(https://i.ibb.co/VJZ2y2F/triggerguard-underlug.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hLjD5DG)
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Thank you all for the advice! I've been watching Jim's videos religiously and I followed his steps. Unfortunately, no youtube instruction can cover over lack of talent, skill and experience....
I'll reply back with results!
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Hey, take your time, and you will be well pleased. A few character marks don't hurt anything. Will acquire them with time anyhow. I am assuming you are building this to shoot instead of just wall hang.
Doc
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Hi guys,
I've been slowly working on the kit and I've made some mistakes here and there but they haven't been that bad so far. until now...
As I was trying to drill through he front handguard tab-thing, my drill bit broke inside the stock. I tried to drill through from the lock side of the stock and that one broke as well... Probably a combination of poor quality drill bit kit and bad technique. Anyways, in the process, I made a ugly dent in the wood near the lock. Is there anything I can do about it beyond learn from it and just love it for what it is (my first build)? lol
If no wood is removed, try taking a wet cleaning patch and heat up a copper roofing nail with a propane torch and put the wet patch over the damaged area and touch the heated copper nail to it to pull out any dent that you can. Hope this helps. Jerry
Also, in the process of getting one of the drill bit fragments out, the pin hole in the stock ended up enlarging to a diameter somewhere in between 1/16 and 5/64. So I was thinking I can still salvage this if I can find a pin stock that's slightly larger. So far I'm only able to find it in 1/16" like Jim supplies with the kit. Any source of pin stocks that are slightly larger?
thanks in advance for any advice!
Towa
(https://i.ibb.co/WnKRfgd/dent.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LSps1nq)
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After working on the rifle on and off this past year, I finally finished it! I went to the range today for a function test. And it is a proper boom stick! No targets to show for since it's not sighted in yet.
Next step would be to sight it in, but I was wondering if I could get a good starting load? I have 0.530 ball, 0.018 patches, and 3F Goex for now.
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FYI,
Those little break throughs are what enables you to get the slim profile Mr Kibler achieves.
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After working on the rifle on and off this past year, I finally finished it! I went to the range today for a function test. And it is a proper boom stick! No targets to show for since it's not sighted in yet.
Next step would be to sight it in, but I was wondering if I could get a good starting load? I have 0.530 ball, 0.018 patches, and 3F Goex for now.
That’s a good start. Start at 50-60g. Find your shot patches. They should be in nice enough shape to reuse or nearly so with just a little edge fraying. If you find you’re getting the random inexplicable big miss you may be blowing those .018s and curveballing your roundball and may need to go to a thicker patch. 5 shots or so for each load in 10g increments and you should find a tight group somewhere along the way. Post some pics!
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I had the same experience on the drill bit thing, a broken drill bit in each side of the lug, the trigger guard wasn't coming off. I had used a temporary phillips head screw in the trigger plate that didn't show but it bugged the heck out of me.
I shaped all the wood on both the sides of the trigger guard with a tiny riffler file, a scraper and sandpaper, there was a lot of wood and it took me a while.
I guy on here said to buy a 1/16" carbide bit, put it in the hole in the stock and using only the weight of the drill let it eat. After about ten minutes of letting the drill bit eat I started seeing metal chips come out of the hole, 5 more minutes and I successfully drilled out the broken bits and opened the lug back up.
If you can find some 5/64 music wire it will be just right for your larger hole. Hobby shops sell it for RC airplane controls. Ace Hardware has it , some stores stock it or you might have to order it online and have a store pick up. You can get it on ebay but not in small batches like at hobby shops, more like 30, 36" pieces at a time.
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After working on the rifle on and off this past year, I finally finished it! I went to the range today for a function test. And it is a proper boom stick! No targets to show for since it's not sighted in yet.
Next step would be to sight it in, but I was wondering if I could get a good starting load? I have 0.530 ball, 0.018 patches, and 3F Goex for now.
That’s a good start. Start at 50-60g. Find your shot patches. They should be in nice enough shape to reuse or nearly so with just a little edge fraying. If you find you’re getting the random inexplicable big miss you may be blowing those .018s and curveballing your roundball and may need to go to a thicker patch. 5 shots or so for each load in 10g increments and you should find a tight group somewhere along the way. Post some pics!
I have to go on an extended business trip starting this week, but I'll take some pictures with the gun when I get back. Thanks for the pointers!
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FYI,
Those little break throughs are what enables you to get the slim profile Mr Kibler achieves.
Noted! It wasn't a problem at all. It was just my inexperienced curiosity :)
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I had the same experience on the drill bit thing, a broken drill bit in each side of the lug, the trigger guard wasn't coming off. I had used a temporary phillips head screw in the trigger plate that didn't show but it bugged the heck out of me.
I shaped all the wood on both the sides of the trigger guard with a tiny riffler file, a scraper and sandpaper, there was a lot of wood and it took me a while.
I guy on here said to buy a 1/16" carbide bit, put it in the hole in the stock and using only the weight of the drill let it eat. After about ten minutes of letting the drill bit eat I started seeing metal chips come out of the hole, 5 more minutes and I successfully drilled out the broken bits and opened the lug back up.
If you can find some 5/64 music wire it will be just right for your larger hole. Hobby shops sell it for RC airplane controls. Ace Hardware has it , some stores stock it or you might have to order it online and have a store pick up. You can get it on ebay but not in small batches like at hobby shops, more like 30, 36" pieces at a time.
5/64 is exactly what I ended up doing. It still left an embarrassing spot that looks like I completely botched the sideplate inletting, but as long as I learned a lesson and not repeat it, that's ok with me!
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A steam iron and a damp washcloth is all you need to pull out a dent, this combo has worked the best for me.
Little glued in shims can hide just about any questionable inletting, I have yet to build a gun without them, unfortunately. The are easy to hide under the right staining and finish. That dent near the oblique flat is not a shim.
There are two big shims alongside this tang;
(https://i.ibb.co/mvcTSzZ/40-tang-shims.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s5VRt3x)
Same gun;
(https://i.ibb.co/fq5yk1s/tang-shims-006.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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That's a very sweet shim job!
I received the same advice using steam last year and it worked up to a point. The stain and finish hid it pretty well. If I examine it carefully, it's still there. But I'm not going to complain. I'll just be more careful next time!
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I did same thing on my first rifle last year and got the fix recommendation from Eric as well... Work wonderfully!
(https://i.ibb.co/ZgrgKDM/20190114-184408.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5j3jvHR)
(https://i.ibb.co/5KJQhSc/20190414-0953333.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SfZkwMv)
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This is my completed rifle. You can see the how much the steam, stain and finish filled in some of the booboo I made under the lock. But there was no concealing the trigger guard drilling mishap. If I had a sliver of the same wood from the kit, i probably could have made it look a bit tidier.
Overall, it was a great experience and I'm looking forward to sighting this in and to my next project.
(https://i.ibb.co/xJpyyvZ/IMG-3099.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Rzx11n8)
(https://i.ibb.co/tC38zJf/IMG-3100.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dK7Gt59)
(https://i.ibb.co/42MrVvC/IMG-3101.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DYk2Rcm)
(https://i.ibb.co/k1vWGkN/IMG-3102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/py591GY)
(https://i.ibb.co/9b5pN1N/IMG-3103.jpg) (https://ibb.co/48rF7X7)
(https://i.ibb.co/zGfDLyz/IMG-3104.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kQcvrRt)
(https://i.ibb.co/r6hzZ9T/IMG-3105.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T8G7Hyp)
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I think you did a very nice job on it. You should be proud of the work you’ve done, it looks good and undoubtedly will shoot very nicely. Food first effort. Now....On to the next one.
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Quit fretting because you did well for the first time. A lot of guys would be willing to own that rifle. Whatever you learned will travel with you on the next build. Trust me and stick with this forum.
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You did a fine job. Shim turned out perfect. I think the lock inlet looks better than if it was perfectly done. Nothing wrong with it at all. As a matter of fact, get it dirty and get a little surface rust growing. She’s a beaut.
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That's a good looking rifle, very nice finish on it. I think you'll enjoy that for a long time to come.
K.C.
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Thank you all! Even my non-firearm wife lets me leave this one in the living room :)
I greatly appreciate all the knowledge and the encouragement of this forum and the people here!
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Really nice looking rifle. You did a great job bringing out the curl on that stock.
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You can use any maple for a fix if you are pretty good with an artist brush and leather dye to match everything up.
I had this happen on my squirrel rifle build. I tried to drill through the wood and trigger guard lug at the same time, the drill bit skated on the lug and came out in the wrong place. I glued a toothpick in the arrant hole and redrilled, everything looked Ok.
I tapped the pin in from the side plate side, it followed the bad hole and broke out a chunk of my lock molding.
I glued the chunk back in and gave it a string wrap to "clamp" this awkward place.
(https://i.ibb.co/wQCnGNT/barrel-pins-008.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Everything went back together but it looked pretty bad. I redrilled from the lock side and corrected the hole.
(https://i.ibb.co/0fYscvs/trigger-guard-crack-fix-001.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Aquafortis followed by leather dye and some brush work under tru-oil hid things pretty well.
(https://i.ibb.co/DznSrx0/squirrel-rifle-done-008.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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You can use any maple for a fix if you are pretty good with an artist brush and leather dye to match everything up.
I had this happen on my squirrel rifle build. I tried to drill through the wood and trigger guard lug at the same time, the drill bit skated on the lug and came out in the wrong place. I glued a toothpick in the arrant hole and redrilled, everything looked Ok.
I tapped the pin in from the side plate side, it followed the bad hole and broke out a chunk of my lock molding.
I glued the chunk back in and gave it a string wrap to "clamp" this awkward place.
(https://i.ibb.co/wQCnGNT/barrel-pins-008.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Everything went back together but it looked pretty bad. I redrilled from the lock side and corrected the hole.
(https://i.ibb.co/0fYscvs/trigger-guard-crack-fix-001.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Aquafortis followed by leather dye and some brush work under tru-oil hid things pretty well.
(https://i.ibb.co/DznSrx0/squirrel-rifle-done-008.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
That is an odd place to pin your trigger guard unless your tab is too short. If that were the case, a best practice would be to add metal to the tab (solder or braised) to allow you to install the pin from the inside of the lock mortise. Placing a pin in that location is just asking for problems. Avoid.
By the way Ob2, nice job on the kit. Now get out there and burn some powder!!
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Short trigger guard lug plus that is where the the second hole came out, I was done fooling with stuff, kinda' fed up with all the bumps in the road making it. The precarve had "issues" that took me forever to work around. When I finished the gun I was so frazzled by it that I hated it and didn't want to even look at it. All that disgust faded in a month or so and I got it out of the safe and started shooting it. I did a good job on it and it is a tack driver, it has since become one of my most favorite rifles.
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Obi2winky
Rifle looks great. What stain/process did you use for finishing the stock? My Kibler kit is on order and your stock has the color I am looking for.
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Obi2winky
Rifle looks great. What stain/process did you use for finishing the stock? My Kibler kit is on order and your stock has the color I am looking for.
Thanks lostreef!
I used tannic acid and aquafortis from the Kibler store. Then I used laurel mountain honey maple stain cut with alcohol. But just as Jim warns you in his kit assembly video, I lost a lot of warmth from using the aquafortis and even staining it wasn’t doing too much to bring it back. So I sanded back certain areas using the original wood curl as a land mark. That’s why certain areas look really dark, others reddish, and yet other almost yellow. I’m still learning to read the wood grain and natural curl figures so some of the curls actually kinda looks artificial, and that’s because it is. haha I probably did 3 or 4 coats/iteration of staining and a bit of sanding here and there. I oiled it with Tried and True Varnish oil. I think I did 3 coats but I can’t remember. I just remember it was difficult to work with but I kept working until I was reasonably satisfied. I then used 3 coats of Laurel Mountain Permalyn. I’m not sure about how many coats of each step I’m supposed to do, so please don’t use this as a guide... also I was going for a “lightly used” look so I wanted the finish to look a little matte.
I benefited a lot from Kingsburyarm showing how aquafortis, heating, staining, sanding, and finishing oil all worked and changes the appearance using a scrap piece of maple. I was very fortunate I live relatively close by to him and he was kind enough to show me. I guess you could do similar type of experiment in a small scale behind the butt plate area?
The metals were all patina-ed with the blue solution I got from the Kibler store as well.