AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: recurve on January 24, 2019, 06:51:00 PM
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I have a .50 green Mnt barrel 36 inch flint and have used swiss ff and goex fff 70 grns with .490, .495ball .015-.018 and .020 patches with a lube of mix bees wax 1part ,paraffin & tallow 2part. . I can shoot 3 times and then have to clean do to a hard ring near the load (1/4-1/2 inch above the witness mark for the load) straight breach(no paten breach) I have used 0000 steal wool on a jag to smoth out barrel (Mr Dixon"s suggestion) Still get the ring after 2nd shot
(https://i.ibb.co/WvJdtfT/DSC02957.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8gZRc9h)
(https://i.ibb.co/PZ9XxRx/DSC02851.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zh79s1s)
(https://i.ibb.co/48YQP3n/DSC02848.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X73wSMr)
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Change lubes and get rid of the wax, both kinds!
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Use pure Neatsfoot Oil. It's the wax that's giving you the issue.
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yes, get rid of the wax. in my experiance using oil type lubes for hunting loads you will eventually get a ring of crud but it usually takes 7-8 shots. also at some point a damp patch will help restore accuracy. my sons .50 colerane with round groove rifling will shoot great for 9rds with 90gr 3f and a .025 patch and mink oil before accuracy falls off. keep on testing untill you find a combo that works for you.
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In my main big game hunting rifle I have shot as many as 50 shots in a day while working up loads and never had any build up or fouling. I use a tight combo patch/ball with Tracks mink oil for patch. Didn't run any cleaning patches down until the end of the shooting session.
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+1 on Tracks Mink Oil. Good luck.
Dave
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Smylee grouch is right on with his recommendation. I load tight and use TOW mink oil or Hoppes BP Lube.
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Ditto - mink oil, Neestfoot Oil, Hoppe's #9 PLUS (BP lube, LHV lube, original or replacement.
For hunting, Track's Mink Oil or Neetsfoot Oil.
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Recurve. you might also try giving your crow a nice polish and try a slightly tighter load, say the 495 ball with a 22/1000 or even 24/1000 patch with a good lube like tracks mink oil or Hoppe's # 9 lube. You might have some difficulty starting a tighter load until you give the crown a nice polish.
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And the patch must be saturated to the point of dripping. The extra lube simply squeezes out along the bore as you seat the ball. It does not wet the powder.
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Ditch the wax lubes. Especially in cold weather. If the interior of the barrel gets above the melting point of the wax it will act as a liquid. But as a sold it acts almost like an adhesive for the bore fouling.
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Ok I have on hand:
Neets pure foot oil
Mutton tallow (no salt)
WW blue + neets (10/1)
Castor oil + alcohol (1/5)
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I would not use castor oil. When it burns, it leaves a hard varnish-like substance. Just look at a small 2-stroke
model airplane engine. Alcohol soak will dissolve the varnish.
Use the Neetsfoot Oil or get some of Track's mink Oil. I prefer the Mink Oil to Neetsfoot oil as a hunting patch lube.
In my old .32 with backwards rifling, it loaded easier the 50th shot, than the first. I assume because the first was loaded
in a dry bore. No wiping.
Here's the .32's crown.
(https://i.ibb.co/S06mMTS/PB141918-zpsbd7b72c5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q9DgcG6)
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I would use a .018 Pillow Ticking patch or even a tough .015 patch. For lube I use a couple that's proven to remove those crud rings, either Original LeHigh Valley or Mr. Flintlocks Lube. The Original LHV is getting harder to find, I hear the maker has stopped making it to pursue other interests. But the Mr. Flintlocks lube is suppose to be the same formula. I have been shooting it a little lately and it seems to work just as good.
Be warned though, neither of these lubes is suitable for hunting.
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(https://www.trackofthewolf.com/imgPart/mink/mink-oil_1.jpg)
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I'm going to the 18th Century Artisan Show in
Lewisburg, PA Friday feb 1. and will look for the Mink lube there(if not tow will get more of my $)& I may look for mr flintlock . BUT I would really like to find a lube that does not depend on the whim of the maker & market. like the lube that disappeared :-[ , a home brew that will always be available.
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A quart of NFO is about 14 bucks and probably has a lot of shots in it. Ebay or otherwise is my source. Avoid "compound" type.
No need to "brew".
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I'm going to the 18th Century Artisan Show in
Lewisburg, PA Friday feb 1. and will look for the Mink lube there(if not tow will get more of my $)& I may look for mr flintlock . BUT I would really like to find a lube that does not depend on the whim of the maker & market. like the lube that disappeared :-[ , a home brew that will always be available.
How old are you? How much do you shoot? Figure out how much Mink Oil you'll need to last the rest of your life and buy that amount. Problem solved.
That's what I did.
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Switch to 100% pure neatsfoot oil. It can be found at most good farm supply stores or equestrian shops. I agree it is the wax that is the problem. 1 quart will last for a very long time and more patches than you will go through for years. If you figure this in it is way cheaper than mink oil, never goes rancid. It took me a long time to believe this and now I just use precut patches with my own spit for trail walks and neatsfoot for all hunting.
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You can also use Ballistol for patch lube, anti-rust for the barrel in and out and even use it on the wood. Heck, you can use it in a salad if you aren't a picky eater. :)
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Or have any taste buds. YIKES!
I'm not sure about using a water soluble oil as a rust preventative.
Seems to me, Dphar warned about that. I know some guys use it as
a target lube, 7:1 or so & really like it for that use. Both Big Ron and Taylor
ended up with rust in their barrels using ballistol as an after cleaning/drying oil.
Both guys had rusted guns overnight.
The humidity was high in both instances. In both instances as well, my own guns did not
rust and I only used WD40 afterwards. No other rust preventative.
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Did they use the Ballistol full strength as a rust preventative? I'm pretty sure that's how the Germans used it in WW1 when they invented it. It's mineral oil. It shouldn't cause rust. It does continue to clean if left in the bore and when a clean patch is run down the bore it could be taken as rust.
Then again we don't have humidity here.
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Humidity is a big deal in some parts and surely puts extra stress on rust preventatives.
Yes - they used the Ballistol full strength. Taylor thought his might have been contaminated
as a quantity of it was gifted to him by a German fellow/friend. Ron, on the other hand, used
it straight out of the bottle he's just purchased, sealed, so no contamination - same result.
I wasn't aware that ordinary mineral oil was water soluble.
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Ballistol is some strange stuff. It works with smokeless and black powder.
Best guess at ingredients.
pharmaceutical white oil: CAS RN 8042-47-5
Oleic acid: CAS RN 112-80-1
C-5 alcohols: CAS RN 78-83-1; CAS RN 137-32-6; CAS RN 100-51-6
different essential oils to perfume Ballistol
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Recurve, don't be disappointed if Mink Oil and some others listed don't solve your problem. I have a Rice .40 cal barrel that did the same thing yours is doing, after 2 shots a hard crud ring would form down the barrel and it was almost impossible to seat a PRB through it. The first day was extremely frustrating so I tried Bore Butter, Mink Oil and Neatsfoot Oil, none cut through that crud ring. So I dropped down to a .015 patch and went through the process again with little improvement.
I had started out with 2fg so I tried 3fg and it was a little better but still untolerable. I had a bottle of LeHigh Valley that I'd never used before, so I lubed a patch with it. It cut right through that crud ring. I was in business!
All that was several thousand shots in the past. Now I can use most any lube and make it work because I've learned how and because the barrels broke in. Funny thing is this is the first barrel I've owned that had this problem so I was completely unprepared.
Just a thought but maybe a spit patch would help breakdown that crud ring?
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Humidity is a big deal in some parts and surely puts extra stress on rust preventatives.
Yes - they used the Ballistol full strength. Taylor thought his might have been contaminated
as a quantity of it was gifted to him by a German fellow/friend. Ron, on the other hand, used
it straight out of the bottle he's just purchased, sealed, so no contamination - same result.
I wasn't aware that ordinary mineral oil was water soluble.
Mineral oil is not water-soluble. What I had is white in color. It looks like an emulsion. A little special soap in the water and you get an emulsion. You see this in the old T/C bore cleaner. They used a silicone oil emulsified in water. Same stuff they used in their cutting and grinding machines when they worked the metal parts. Used in machining as a lubricant and cooling agent to extend cutting tool life. Which is why I used to roll when I read the label. All natural???? Silicone oil ??? They claimed it was dissolved in the water. A solution? Nope! A micro-emulsion.
As for myself I liked the spray cans of Ballistiol. Come home from the range and set up to clean he two bp rifles. Wife would quickly head over to the mall to get away from the Ballistol stink. The big old hound dog would head for a corner well away from where I was working.
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TKs Bill, that makes sense.
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My Local Wal mart now sells " Pure Lambs Tallow" and "Pure Beef Tallow" in the lard section. It is from grass fed critters and has no salts. It is in a jar and is around $14 if i remember correctly.
Bob
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What's lard? Is that pig tallow?
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TKs Bill, that makes sense.
Daryl, There was more humor to my description of the T/C silicone oil emulsion sold as a BP bore cleaner. Container said it was "all natural". Silicone oil was invented around 1947 from what my chemical industry books said. All natural ???? Well it came from a DOW-Corning PLANT. Which had a large tank FARM. A FARM and a Plant? Just gotta be natural! That was my joke when I was trapped 7 days a week in a PVC PLANT with a large tank FARM I had to check during my work day.
Bill K.
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What's lard? Is that pig tallow?
Well, yes and no.
Both are rendered animal fat but Tallow (by definition) comes from ruminant animals (cattle, mutton, buffalo, etc.). Lard (by definition) is from pigs. They are not chemically identical.
One other comment on Lard...I just looked at the container of commercial Lard (Armor brand) we have in the house now and note that it contains the additives: BHA, Propyl Gallate, and Citric Acid.
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I recommended mink oil patch lube to a friend and he called me upset. He said it had gummed his barrel terribly. I discovered he had bought shoe waterproofing "mink oil" that had silicone in it.
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TKs Bill, that makes sense.
Daryl, There was more humor to my description of the T/C silicone oil emulsion sold as a BP bore cleaner. Container said it was "all natural". Silicone oil was invented around 1947 from what my chemical industry books said. All natural ???? Well it came from a DOW-Corning PLANT. Which had a large tank FARM. A FARM and a Plant? Just gotta be natural! That was my joke when I was trapped 7 days a week in a PVC PLANT with a large tank FARM I had to check during my work day.
Bill K.
Yes - I caught that, Bill. Very much like their winter lip-balm with eucalyptus oil to make their "Bore Butter".