AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: msellers on March 04, 2019, 08:40:37 PM

Title: Help identifying some later period parts
Post by: msellers on March 04, 2019, 08:40:37 PM
All,

I recently aquired an nice back action lock, patent (not patten, dang fat fingers on phone) breech plug and possibly vincent style butt plate. Was told they were maybe 1840s-1850s, just am not sure what they could be from exactly. Wanting to utilize these for a build, and hopefully learn some more about them in the process. Also, can get better photos of the simple engraving if needed or wanted.

Thanks,
Mike
(https://i.ibb.co/z8bgzzM/20190304-091039.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tZc699G)

(https://i.ibb.co/RctJbFT/20190304-090840.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kXzPB72)

(https://i.ibb.co/vqbFN0D/20190304-091113.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3dw3xgk)

(https://i.ibb.co/p1SctHN/20190304-090827.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YNxmz5J)

(https://i.ibb.co/3TTLfSc/20190304-091104.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p119W4d)

(https://i.ibb.co/FgxP8XX/20190304-090905.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qrb5Ykk)

(https://i.ibb.co/NNJTH8F/20190304-090926.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M1tB3Yg)

(https://i.ibb.co/x8pSm6y/20190304-090912.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M5YD87b)

(https://i.ibb.co/0QfhNmQ/20190304-091003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Km9FZbm)

(https://i.ibb.co/g9GJx0x/20190304-091026.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6w2FkKk)

(https://i.ibb.co/6bn3DZk/20190304-091017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HYFWG2j)
Title: Re: Help identifying some later period parts
Post by: rich pierce on March 04, 2019, 09:26:31 PM
Not trying to be a wise guy here but looks like a patent breech, lock, buttplate and whatnot to me, that could be from almost anywhere in the percussion period. Thousands of makers were getting factory parts from their own “Track of the Wolf” in those days (large hardware dealers) and building guns largely indistinguishable from each other except sometimes in architecture or embellishment.
Title: Re: Help identifying some later period parts
Post by: Craig Wilcox on March 04, 2019, 09:28:14 PM
Mike, those are fascinating parts - do you plan to use them on something you might build?
Title: Re: Help identifying some later period parts
Post by: msellers on March 04, 2019, 09:31:00 PM
Quote from: rich pierce on March 04, 2019, 09:26:31 PM
Not trying to be a wise guy here but looks like a patent breech, lock, buttplate and whatnot to me, that could be from almost anywhere in the percussion period. Thousands of makers were getting factory parts from their own “Track of the Wolf” in those days (large hardware dealers) and building guns largely indistinguishable from each other except sometimes in architecture or embellishment.
Rich,
Thanks for pointing out my fat finger and auto correct issue there. Would be something to see them ivory handle colts strapped to this breech. Thanks for the insight on the possibilities also. Will go correct the misspelling on the patent breech, not patten breech.
Mike
Title: Re: Help identifying some later period parts
Post by: msellers on March 04, 2019, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: Craig Wilcox on March 04, 2019, 09:28:14 PM
Mike, those are fascinating parts - do you plan to use them on something you might build?
Hopefully, but will see what i can figure out.
Mike
Title: Re: Help identifying some later period parts
Post by: mountainman70 on March 05, 2019, 06:52:51 AM
Hi Mike, interesting old parts. I got a bunch of old parts several years back,and had some of the same stuff. Presently, there are 8 rifles built with those parts.Best 400.00 I ever spent on anything,well,almost.
 I built an Ohio style long rifle ,2 piece takedown cherry stock using these same style parts. Ed Rayl 34 cal barrel makes 1 ragged hole at 50 bench.
 If you want,I can send you pics of the gun.I got my ideas from Ohio Collectors show.Best regards, Dave F 8) 8)
Title: Re: Help identifying some later period parts
Post by: Levy on March 07, 2019, 12:42:16 AM
A word of caution concerning the lock.  I see that both the mainspring and the sear extend beyond the borders of the lockplate.  I would be willing to bet that the gun this lock came off of is missing wood at both of those places on the gunstock.  Be sure that the sear and mainspring are hidden behind the lock plate before trying to insert or remove the lock from the gunstock.  I love old parts, but you have to be careful with them.  I've made the above mistake more than once.  James Levy   
Title: Re: Help identifying some later period parts
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on March 07, 2019, 04:50:11 AM
The hammer not resting on a nipple allows the mainspring to carry on past it's at rest position above the plate.  When Y9ou remove a lock of this type, it MUST be done on the half cock notch.  This also allows the sear's nose, now not resting against the lower curve of the tumbler, to allow the tail to drop down below the plate.  Neither of these conditions occur on a properly made rifle.
Title: Re: Help identifying some later period parts
Post by: msellers on March 07, 2019, 08:55:36 AM
This lock is kind of interesting to me in the fact that the tail of the mainspring is also the sear spring. It is also a bit weak to keep the sear engaged properly as I mess with it. Otherwise, it seems to function mostly as it should.  Not sure I totally trust the sear nose and tumbler notches, but can slowly work on those. Also looks like the tumbler needs to be bushed where it comes through the plate.
Title: Re: Help identifying some later period parts
Post by: Pukka Bundook on March 07, 2019, 06:51:34 PM
As Taylor says re. the removal of the lock.

I think these parts can work very nicely for you, Mike!
You know where they need work.  easy enough o re-cut notches and re =harden.
The mainspring may need a re-heat and bend, re-temper but this isn't too hard to do.

I look forward to your progress reports.  :-)

R