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General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: tilefish on May 25, 2019, 08:42:06 PM

Title: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: tilefish on May 25, 2019, 08:42:06 PM
Have a novice question hope you all can help. I recently bought my first flintlock its an allentown pattern rifle. It is my first full stock longrifle. It came with the barrel in the white and I am wanting to finish it. I am just a little nervous about removing the barrel pins. It appears to have three pins holding the barrel in place any advice on removing the pins would be greatly appreciated.Once again sorry about the novice question Im just trying not to mess anything up.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Mauser06 on May 25, 2019, 09:05:57 PM
Just make sure you remove all the pins.  There will be pins holding on the ramrod pipes. Don't worry about them.  Should he 3 or 4 holding the barrel.  Usually 1/16" or a smidge bigger.  Just tap them out gently.  I like to tap them just enough to get pliers onto and pull it out. 

Then removed the tang bolt and the rear lock bolt. 

Then be careful removing the barrel from the wood. I use a piece of ramrod in the muzzle to pop it out or I hold the muzzle end and tap the comb on my padded bench stool and the tang pops out.


It's not difficult.  Just be careful.  If the rifle is built well, there's likely not much wood through the forend. 
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: hanshi on May 25, 2019, 10:11:03 PM
I'd also recommend that you tap the pins out and back in going in the same direction.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Bob McBride on May 25, 2019, 10:12:57 PM
....and make sure whatever punch you use is the same size or smaller than the pins. You donít want to bore the holes in the wood larger than the pins. And assume the stock will break (it wonít if youíre careful) taking the barrel out. Slow and EASY. Grease the bottom of the barrel before putting it back in. This should be a once a year thing.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: tilefish on May 26, 2019, 12:04:07 AM
Thank you for all the advice just didn't want to bugger anything up. When replacing the pins do you all apply anything to them.Thanks
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Gordy on May 26, 2019, 12:27:54 AM
One other thing you should check while you have the barrel out. Check to see if the holes in the barrel lugs are enlongated. This  will allow the wood to move a little when it swells. Not sure where you are located but in high humidity areas, some wood has split due to the fact that it has no room to move. The hole only needs have a small amount of room for the pin to be able to move. Might save you a heartache down the road.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Bob McBride on May 26, 2019, 12:33:55 AM
Oil/grease them when you put them back. It will keep rust from forming and swell the wood ever so  slightly to hold them in place.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Gemmer on May 26, 2019, 02:19:32 AM
With the rifle pointed away from me Iíve always driven the pins out right to left then to re-assemble left to right.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Molly on May 26, 2019, 03:17:12 AM
A small section of the "wire" from a survey flag/line marker (can be found at Lowes) makes a good "punch".  Cut the flag off and file the end flat.  This stuff is also about 1/16th dia and would even make a good pin if one is needed.  It's also essentially the same diameter as your other pins for the guard and thimbles.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: alacran on May 26, 2019, 03:51:33 PM
Don't forget to take the rear lock bolt off. Don't laugh.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Eric Krewson on May 26, 2019, 04:21:23 PM
I hold the rifle upside down over a flat surface and gently tap upward on the buttstock to release the barrel from the inlet, works every time.

I bought a kit gun at $200 less than the going price, when I got it in I notice a crack in the forstock that I suspect was done by grabbing the front of barrel in one hand and the stock in the other and trying to pry the barrel out of the inlet. It was a minor fix, I made a beautiful rifle out of the kit that I am very pleased with.

The inlet was very, very tight, lollipop tang and all. It took me several minutes of light upward tapping on the buttstock to get the barrel to turn loose. Draw filing the barrel made for a perfect barrel to inlet fit, no wood removal was necessary. 
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: hanshi on May 26, 2019, 10:15:01 PM
The punch I use on those very rare occasions when the barrel needs to be removed is a 1/16" punch I've owned for decades.  I punch the pins out FROM the right, muzzle pointed away from me, and reinstall them the same way, from the right side.  The pins are only punched far enough for a plier to grip the end and pull them out.  Always go slowly.  The stock doesn't support the barrel; it only "hangs" from the barrel.  So the barrel actually supports the stock.  This doesn't necessarily apply to rifles other than traditional, pinned longrifles.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: tilefish on May 26, 2019, 11:14:01 PM
Well I managed to remove the barrel without breaking anything hopefully it goes back together as good thanks again everyone this forum is a wealth of knowledge.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Gordy on May 27, 2019, 02:47:08 PM
I furgot to mention to elongate your barrel lugs a small burr cutter in a Dremel tool (care must be taken any time get one of these  in our hands), or small round jewelers file will do the trick.
Gordy
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on May 29, 2019, 08:30:38 PM
I know that I am going against the norm, but I remove my barrel (pinned or keyed), every time I clean it.  I remove the pins with a punch made from a piece of music wire (drill rod) a few thousandths less diameter than the pin, ie: pin is .0625" so punch is .055".  As the lock bolts are removed from the left side of a right handed rifle, so are the pins, and as they go back in from the left, so do the pins.  the pins are just short of being full width in the stock, so there is always a little hole in the forestock for the pin punch.  Gentle tapping with the rifle laid out on a table pushes the pins past the underlug, and they can be removed easily with fingers or pliers.  There is no reason for the stock to be wallooned around pin holes, unless you are a hamfisted person without the slightest skill, in my understated and humble opinion.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Daryl on May 30, 2019, 12:44:32 AM
What REALLY amazes Taylor, is that even I can remove a barrel countless times, every day any are fired, the barrels are removed for cleaning.
If I had a rifle that the tang went down the wrist and up over the comb, THEN I would likely not remove the barrel. That gun is highly unlikely EVER
to be mine, thus, the barrels come off for cleaning.

Thus, there is NEVER any need to scrape the breech face as ALL the fouling there gets blasted off with water flushing.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Darkhorse on May 30, 2019, 01:55:08 AM
I guess I go against the norm also as I remove my pinned barrels almost every time I clean. I remember my .54 barrel inlet was so tight it made me proud. However it was tough to get the barrel out without breaking something. So keeping in mind I would be removing the barrel often, I took a chisel and lightly scraped the flats in the stock until they still looked good and tight but the barrel was actually easy to remove.
That rifle is now over 20 years old and nothing has cracked and the holes are still good and tight.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Mauser06 on May 30, 2019, 02:11:46 AM
I'm with you guys....when i got my first pinned barrel I simply didn't know any better.  I was accustomed to cleaning a TC....so I did the same with my pinned barrel long rifle....then I "learned" how you should never take a barrel from a stock....and kept doing it because it works and that's how I'm comfortable cleaning my barrels. 
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: smylee grouch on May 30, 2019, 03:02:51 AM
I,m one that pulls the pins. I like the way the water flush cleans the bore and breech, IMHO I don,t think you can get a barrel any cleaner when you use the flush, The force is so great when you pump that water back and forth it forces the bad stuff out and leaves you with a clear/clean flash channel.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Mike Brooks on May 30, 2019, 02:22:02 PM
I DON'T remove the barrel an I DO use a water flush. Ain't I weird? :o
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Hungry Horse on May 30, 2019, 07:42:26 PM
Iím with you Mike, life is too short for me to make some kind of a ritual out of something as mundane as cleaning a place that donít get that dirty.
 I have taken antique muzzleloaders apart that clearly rarely, or never, had the barrel remove since being built. A couple of them were obviously left in the white, and were still bare, and bright under the forearm, so what the devil are we preventing, if they are still bright?
 While weíre on the subject of things we donít do, I donít polish my brass either. My mentors are spinning in their graves Iím sure. I donít own any replicas worth several thousand dollars, that are more a piece of art than a serviceable firearm, so I see no reason for mindless ritual cleanings.

  Hungry Horse
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Daryl on May 30, 2019, 08:19:32 PM
Barbie (nee) Chambers removed the barrel from a gun that 'came' into the shop for repair. The barrel had never been removed and was badly rusted and pitted.

If you are good with that, have at it.  I'm not, so I do as I was taught - I remove the barrel for cleaning.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Hungry Horse on May 30, 2019, 08:33:19 PM
I believe you are sighting the exception rather than the rule. I have had hundreds of modern, and antique, muzzleloaders apart and can not think of one with excessive rusting, and pitting, that hadnít been abused, or mishandled. I think with regular service to the bore, and around the lock, barrel removal is just busy work.

  Hungry Horse
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: hanshi on May 30, 2019, 10:44:44 PM
I DON'T remove the barrel an I DO use a water flush. Ain't I weird? :o



....but does the stock swell, Mike?  ???
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Mike Brooks on May 31, 2019, 02:59:24 PM
I DON'T remove the barrel an I DO use a water flush. Ain't I weird? :o



....but does the stock swell, Mike?  ???
Why would it? ???
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: rich pierce on May 31, 2019, 06:22:37 PM
I worked on an original Leman where the barrel had never been removed.  It was badly rusted all right on the underside. But then again, so were the top flats. A neglected gun will rust all over.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Gordy on May 31, 2019, 08:14:44 PM
When I finish a build one of the last things I do is, put Permayln Sealer in the barrel channel and lock mortise, a couple coats. Then I apply a heavy coat of Johnson's Paste Wax to the  bottom of the barrel. I have a rifle I built in 1979 that I recently pulled the barrel, and there was no traces of any rust developing. This rifle has been shot regularly through the years and cleaned without removing the barrel. A little extra prevention goes a long ways.
Just sayin !
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: hanshi on May 31, 2019, 10:18:29 PM
I agree, Gordy.  I pull the pinned barrels on new guns and put a few coats of tru Oil in the barrel channel and lock mortise.  The barrel underside gets the Paste Wax or Rig grease.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Mike from OK on June 01, 2019, 02:35:56 AM
After reading this I decided I would pull the barrel on mine... I've had the gun well over a year and never pulled the barrel... I was nervous about what I would find.

Aside from the tang bolt there is really only one pin doing the work of holding the stock to the barrel. The pin at the nosecap only squeezes a thin piece of wood where the wood stops. So theoretically I could pull the tang bolt and middle pin and lightly tap the barrel forward off the end of the stock rather than pull the pin holding the nosecap... But I could also see that going badly too.

The pin in the center of the stock came out without too much of a fight. The pin holding the nosecap was tougher to remove.

I got the barrel off and only had very small patches of surface rust under the nosecap and under the tang... Makes sense as this is where any errant water would seep to during cleaning. The rust wiped right off. So I applied some of the WD40 Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor I bought recently and reassembled everything.

I may pull the barrel again in a few months and see how it holds up.

Mike

Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Nhgrants on June 01, 2019, 02:22:26 PM
Grease versus wax under the barrel.  The last time I took the barrel off, I switched from rig grease
To Butchers Wax.  This the wax I had on hand.  I wasn't that happy with how the grease worked  so I tried
Wax. Have not evaluated how well it worked yet.

Any one else use wax?

Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Darkhorse on June 01, 2019, 06:56:10 PM
Years ago I used grease on the bottom of the barrel. When I pulled the barrel some time later the bottom of the barrel from the bore to about 10" back, had a thick layer of rust. After that I started using wax, plain old Johnson's paste wax, I had a large can on my bench.
Now I wax the exterior of my firearms, and use oil in the bore. No more rust. When I come in from hunting I take a hard cloth and rub the outsides down with fast strokes, no more fingerprints and no rust. Easy and less messy than oiling the outsides.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Bob McBride on June 02, 2019, 02:12:53 AM
Iím glad to hear of yalls good luck with wax vs Riggs grease. Iíve always used Riggs but will switch to wax next barrel pulls. Never too old to pick up a trick or two. Thanks!

Bobby
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Mike Brooks on June 02, 2019, 02:36:27 AM
How come I seem to have more trouble with rust on TOP of the barrel than on the BOTTOM? ???
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: smylee grouch on June 02, 2019, 03:29:55 AM
Are you storing your barrels upside down?  :P
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: Mike Brooks on June 02, 2019, 03:59:01 AM
Are you storing your barrels upside down?  :P
I must be!
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: alacran on June 02, 2019, 12:18:02 PM
I decided last summer to refinish my squirrel rifle. I never really liked the light honey color of the stock, plus I wanted to address a couple of things that I didn't like. The barrel had never been out of the stock since 2005 when I built it. I never browned the barrel's lower flats. I'hunted this rifle in AZ and the Midwest rain forest of Southern Illinois and Western Kentucky. It has been soaked more than a few times.
When I removed the barrel there were a couple of places that had some minor surface rust on the lower flats,but overall it looked  pretty good.
When I originally browned the barrel I heated it with a torch just enough to melt the Minwax paste wax I had rubbed onto the barrel. I then oiled the whole barrel.
Like Mike it seems I get most of my rusting on the upper barrel flats, sometimes right before my eyes.
Title: Re: Removing a pinned barrel
Post by: rich pierce on June 02, 2019, 09:33:54 PM
I think the concern over rusting in the channel must be a leftover from modern gun concerns where patina destroys resale value and 95% original finish brings more dollars.