AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Curtis on July 14, 2019, 09:22:32 AM
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Thanks again to the Moderators for expanding the rules to include such guns as the Alexander Henry target rifle, which happens to be a bullet gun. A review, photos of the parts set and some general information can be found in this post: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=54946.0 (http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=54946.0)
The first thing I tackled was fitting the patent breech to the barrel. In the fitting process I eventually filed enough metal off the breech face of the barrel to turn the patent breech approximately two flats past the initial tight fit. I recommend taking great care in this filing process to maintain the trueness of the barrel face. I painted the face of the patent breech with Dykem to indicate when the face had bottomed out, in order to insure a tight seal.
(https://i.ibb.co/wz6mYk9/P7101736.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9rY5GDF)
(https://i.ibb.co/H7wHbzD/P7101738.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q9SKTNF)
(https://i.ibb.co/J3qnzQn/P7101741.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qJCBR5B)
Once the patent breech was properly seated, I began the process of "prettying up" the castings, which of course translates to lots of filing. Fortunately the castings are very nice in quality, it makes the job much easier. First I used a jeweler's saw to add definition to the very top of the flash guard , probably not necessary however it helped me maintain it's integrity. I also sketched on some makings with a Sharpie to help remind me of the some lines I wanted to maintain.
(https://i.ibb.co/xYszNV4/P7101743.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w7LpfDv)
(https://i.ibb.co/bLx3qXZ/P7101750.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pZgPGd8)
(https://i.ibb.co/WWg8dKK/P7131751.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N6ZDkYY)
After the filing was all finished (at this stage at least) I used a cold chisel to make a couple of witness marks. These will be useful for properly aligning the breech when it is removed and replaced in the future. The bottom face of the "snail" will have to be filed the next time I have the patent breech off the barrel.
(https://i.ibb.co/19RkYY3/P7131752.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hK2Sxxk)
(https://i.ibb.co/DLMP4Ln/P7131753.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSyrJS7)
Then I filed the underside of the tang to remove the casting marks and seams.
(https://i.ibb.co/9HbTdPc/P7131754.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F45wdpm)
(https://i.ibb.co/d582QHT/P7131756.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9rQTqdD)
And this is where I stopped with the filing, it is adequate for finishing the inletting of the barrel and tang.
(https://i.ibb.co/gV4Cnxh/P7131757.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YZ0Grxw)
(https://i.ibb.co/TkrMR1D/P7131759.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XbVxpDf)
My next step will be to "square up" both ends of the octagon section of the machined inlet, and true up the end grain face where the standing breech will make contact.
(https://i.ibb.co/Wzg3r2t/P7131760.jpg) (https://ibb.co/94svxrt)
That's all for now! Thanks for looking,
Curtis
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What barrel are you using?
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That breech plug/tang was Don Brown's idea of quality and he went as far as he had to
so it would be right.Rod England is following Don's idea with this VERY critical part.
Rod has asked me to make some locks for this project but at present I am not interested
in any more lock work from anyone.For some reason,Don would not use my 4 screw lock
unless the customer insisted.Maybe it was the cost but that was on the customer as a
separate purchase.
What you show so far looks really good and will it be a pistol grip stock or the stalking
rifle stock? I like the stalking rifle because of the good looking trigger guard it uses.
I started one of these in 2001 and finally got it done in 2003 and sold it in 2005 (maybe).
It had the correct 4 screw lock and I made a tang sight* that matched the "ears" on the
tang with a spring under the tang to stop the travel of the sight. The front sight was a
Lyman 17A with a special base I made using a level and Lee Shaver's inserts. The barrel
was a Green Mountain 45 with a 1;18 twist and a custom mould made a 560 grease groove
bullet that worked well at 500 meters.
Please keep us in the loop on this very interesting project and you are off to a good start.
Bob Roller
*Don Brown got some of his sights from Mike Neumann in Cresslawn Edleen South Africa.
They are fine sights and Mike is a former Berliner who is a master tool maker who learned
his trade well.
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What barrel are you using?
Justin, I am using one of the match barrels - .451 cal, 7 groove rifling with wide groove and narrow lands with a depth of .003 -.004 in a left hand twist 1-18". 35" length, 2" octagon then tapered round to muzzle.
Curtis
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Bob- the stock I am using is a target rifle stock and has the pistol grip, and the gun is the heavy target gun. I have a feeling after I get this one built I may be looking at one of the staking rifles to hunt with.
Curtis
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Here is the octagonal barrel inlet after the initial "squaring up" of the ends. I will do some smoothing up as I remove high points of contact by the barrel.
(https://i.ibb.co/2h9TKWh/P7141764.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W5hLKG5)
(https://i.ibb.co/1TCKgVk/P7141765.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KWt7PZJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/xqff7mm/P7141766.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Xx33Cyy)
Once the tang started to make contact with the top of the stock, I scribed around the tang and removed wood where indicated. Anyone who had done much inletting will agree, SHARP tools are required for clean, crisp inlets.
It soon became apparent that the untouched bottom of the patent breech would need some material removed before inletting. I filed it flush with the standing breech bottom. More material will likely be removed when the lock goes in. Here is it pictured covered with inletting black.
(https://i.ibb.co/rMNLJKK/P7141767.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ftLK7VV)
As the barrel unit goes down and back, I like to persuade it to the rear buy tapping it firmly on the muzzle with a non-marring tool, and tap the tang down after it is seated rearward. In the third pic there you can see there is still a small gap and it must back to insure a solid fit behind the standing breech.
(https://i.ibb.co/vYjS6rP/P7141768.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9tr7kfT)
(https://i.ibb.co/619YTyR/P7141769.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hxw7bKD)
(https://i.ibb.co/fD08yjj/P7141771.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vXzsT00)
As it goes down I like to remove most of the excess wood proud of the tang, you can see better what is going on and it helps eliminate false readings.
(https://i.ibb.co/3vFT1GZ/P7141775.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jzw8hBX)
Removing wood that is marked with inlet black:
(https://i.ibb.co/ZLZJzCM/P7141763.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FxPW4tD)
(https://i.ibb.co/NTLGw63/P7141772.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y48xLnR)
(https://i.ibb.co/g6H124c/P7141774.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rvTPjdX)
The tang is down, and there is full contact behind the standing breech, this stage is complete!
(https://i.ibb.co/cL8C0YN/P7141777.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SrmdbfK)
I started prepping the drip bar, and sharpened the blade on my bow saw in preparation for cutting the excess off the butt of the stock. The blade was brand new but cut miserably. More to come later...
Curtis
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Curtis, just in case you need to do some bedding, modern bedding material is not allowed if this rifle is to be used in the World Matches.
Fleener
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Please keep us in the loop on this. I see you chose the pistol grip stock which
is more work but nonetheless elegant.
The 1971 edition of the Gun Digest has a fine article on these rifles and shows a straight grip
rifle.I used one of Don Brown's stalking rifle stocks and made a good copy of this rifle and made
a long range sight for the two "ears" in the tang and mad a spring stop to halt the back rotation
of this sight.
This issue of the GD also shows a "false muzzle"or muzzle protector as made by Rigby and I did
make one for my rifle.
We all want to see the finished rifle and wish you well during that build.
Bob Roller
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Curtis, just in case you need to do some bedding, modern bedding material is not allowed if this rifle is to be used in the World Matches.
Fleener
Where would you find info about the requirements? I still plan on building a bullet rifle one of these days
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Curtis, just in case you need to do some bedding, modern bedding material is not allowed if this rifle is to be used in the World Matches.
Fleener
I did some bedding on my 451 by using thin veneer and pressing the barrel into it after
coating the barrel channel with a coat of Elmer's Carpenter's glue. It was undetectable
and the veneer was black walnut from a friend whose wife took a class in basket making.
Bob Roller
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http://mlaic.org/who-we-are/constitution-rules/
See the above for link to the rules
Fleener
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Hokey Smokes, You've really gone to town. Nice!
Hank
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Curtis, just in case you need to do some bedding, modern bedding material is not allowed if this rifle is to be used in the World Matches.
Fleener
Here is what I found on the MLAIC site that Art posted the link to:
c) Modern chemical materials such as fibreglass and epoxy resin may not be used for bedding barrels. Traditional materials such as animal glue and sawdust used by contemporary gunsmiths for making repairs are permitted.
d)Traditional materials such as wooden dowels, animal glue and sawdust used by contemporary gunsmiths for making repairs is preferred. Use of modern adhesives is permitted to restore function, but may not be used to bed barrels or otherwise improve firearms' performance above that which it possessed when originally made
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Hokey Smokes, You've really gone to town. Nice!
Hank
Yeah I got a bit sidetracked form my Henry Albright project! And thanks!
Curtis
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http://mlaic.org/who-we-are/constitution-rules/
See the above for link to the rules
Fleener
Thank you
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Got back in the shop and inlet the buttplate today. First step was to cut off the excess wood with a bow saw I made in George Suiter's tool-making class at the NMLRA Seminar last year.
(https://i.ibb.co/t2HZWzP/P7161781.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ykNhbpB)
Then I did a little cleanup with a rasp and filed the inside edges of the buttplate to clean and even the up.
(https://i.ibb.co/4J4frVM/P7161782.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mShBWct)
(https://i.ibb.co/6wNRHg9/P7161783.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T2rB4mj)
After fitting and rasping a few times I applied inlet black to the plate and started checking for fit. Where black shows it is rasped off. In the finial area at the top I use a chisel to carefully pare the black off.
(https://i.ibb.co/YD1PSy1/P7171784.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q0c78Wc)
(https://i.ibb.co/SNCsfWH/P7171786.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gyKj4HQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/3TBG6h0/P7171787.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WHgq8Kc)
The finial comes to a sharp point, so I use a little tool I forged up to clean out the front of the inlet.
(https://i.ibb.co/JdBdC0Z/P7181788.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wL0LY3t)
(https://i.ibb.co/z4TmZyV/P7181789.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BC5fBX2)
(https://i.ibb.co/qnc9YCj/P7181790.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g7fwZd9)
Near the bottom of the inlet I like to take a shallow gouge and pare away the inside of the flat area a little bit, it really speeds up the process. I mark around the plate with a pencil and stay about a quarter inch inside the lines.
(https://i.ibb.co/KLCdd1D/P7181792.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YyvmmrX)
When please with the fit I located the screw holes, marked them with a punch, then drilled undersized pilot holes in the buttplate.
(https://i.ibb.co/VHsFdQr/P7181794.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pWSHgRG)
I used a tip in the instruction sheet that came with the kit and put the bit used to drill the pilot hole in the hole in the buttplate, aligned it toe the proper angle and tapped it with a hammer. Then for good measure I rotated it half a turn and tapped it again. This is supposed to help keep the drill from wandering and moving the plate when you start the pilot hole in the wood. It worked rather well I must say! I will remember this technique, it works better than using a center punch.
(https://i.ibb.co/JdjXzqP/P7181795.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3smt0vH)
Then I screwed the buttplate in place with some undersized non-period temp screws to keep it in place and protect the stock. The fit looks good, if some minor gap shows up when I bring the stock down to size I can make a some minor adjustments then.
(https://i.ibb.co/sb3pTPM/P7181796.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DzKPBbS)
(https://i.ibb.co/9hpQZ2d/P7181797.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sCg8WQX)
(https://i.ibb.co/Jy3w80h/P7181798.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vQX6fgt)
Thanks for looking,
Curtis
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Next I started cleanup on the trigger plate casting. I must say again these are some of the nicest casting I have used, there was very little cleanup needed. The edges if the trigger plate were cast with a nice bevel.
(https://i.ibb.co/xJcxYQm/P7181799.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kQrNJF3)
(https://i.ibb.co/D94mBpb/P7181800.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZBdvQmJ)
The trigger riser will work fine the way it came but I decided to make it look a bit closer to traditional English trigger riser, so I marked it up, cut it with a jeweler's saw and did some filing to reshape it. It needs more work, will finish that up tomorrow:
(https://i.ibb.co/hMD7wTq/P7181801.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YWpRwVr)
(https://i.ibb.co/XsDTxbq/P7181803.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0MK3ycx)
The plate almost fits in the precarved mortise, the corners need a little squaring up and I ran a 3/8" reamer down the round hole for the tang screw stud.
(https://i.ibb.co/FKz2cCp/P7181805.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DtQhmTd)
(https://i.ibb.co/Bc79p96/P7181806.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k5rt7tD)
That's it for this installment.
Curtis
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Fantastic work Curtis ! I must say you get a lot more done in a shop session than I do ! Really enjoying this build and look forward to what’s next
Zack
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Depends on the day Zack, some days are more productive than others!
Once the trigger plate will go down far enough to touch the wood I hold it firm and scribe around it where needed, then start removing wood with gouges and chisels. You can feel it when the tool drops into the scribe lines.
(https://i.ibb.co/4dNH40r/P7191808.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FV7F8dT)
(https://i.ibb.co/J31WNTT/P7191809.jpg) (https://ibb.co/km7VpTT)
For the delicate areas around the pineapple finial I stab in with a small tool I made for inletting fine work:
(https://i.ibb.co/WvbNNmW/P7191810.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b5Sjjcg)
A little more work and it's almost down all the way. I didn't deepen the machine inlet area except at the rear of the inlet and a bit at the mid section, also the mortise for the trigger riser.
(https://i.ibb.co/Jrw9R7W/P7191811.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SV4zXnD)
(https://i.ibb.co/zNMChjm/P7191812.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GF6GvBd)
Curtis
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Once the trigger plate was in it was time to drill for the tang bolt. The tang bolt will go into the lug above where the trigger guard screws into the plate. I start with a 1/16" drill so I have room to fix thing is something goes haywire. I use a drilling guide instead of my drill press. I drilled about halfway from each side.
(https://i.ibb.co/pwZz4fs/P7201813.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c3tF26p)
(https://i.ibb.co/Jd81KPk/P7201814.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hMr6yv8)
The initial pilot hole looked good, but when I went up a couple of sizes the guide evidently slipped on me. Something didn't look right so I stopped after drilling a eighth or so. I was heading for disaster, good thing I stopped. Since I was well within the screw shaft area it was and easy correction, I used a small mill bit in a drill and a diamond burr to move the hole over and back on track.
(https://i.ibb.co/gJP3cMk/P7211816.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0rFczjH)
(https://i.ibb.co/PYTJtMw/P7211817.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qc8hXkr)
I used progressively larger drills until I reached the tap drill size removed the plate and drilled for clearance, then tapped the plate in the gun. It came out pretty much right on the money!
(https://i.ibb.co/yPFxpLS/P7211818.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8sgQbFc)
(https://i.ibb.co/cT9pS9P/P7211819.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j4YxPYd)
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The next step was to drill the tang only to 1/4", I used a drill stop to prevent going to deep. Then per the instructions I made a reamer from a file tang and enlarged the hole for the tapered bolt, primarily to the rear to enhance tightening of the breech. Last I installed the tang bolt. I had obtained some used screws from Rod so I utilized one of those.
(https://i.ibb.co/vDv7mvZ/P7211820.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HXpWYpn)
(https://i.ibb.co/QNWn68b/P7211821.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pzHZ3W0)
(https://i.ibb.co/2c6WbvL/P7211822.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wpLBvSb)
Next I drilled and tapped a hole in the standing breech, then cut off an 8x32 bolt and sharpened one end to a point in the drill press with a file. I screwed it into the standing breech so the point barely protruded and installed the breech in the stock to mark where to drill for the standing breech screw. This insures an exact location of the screw.
(https://i.ibb.co/LkdJ5Tb/P7221826.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7YtR438)
(https://i.ibb.co/zVGRydS/P7221827.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fd4phJC)
(https://i.ibb.co/gyZByQ4/P7221829.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tBpWBnL)
(https://i.ibb.co/R7qpsCD/P7221830.jpg) (https://ibb.co/52PWS5R)
(https://i.ibb.co/cgVfTn4/P7221831.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Vj5nB4f)
After completing that task, I prepped the drip bar and the barrel underlug for installation, then sawed off some of the excess from the bottom of the forestock.
(https://i.ibb.co/bgCy77k/P7251834.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Gv81FFq)
(https://i.ibb.co/L8TnnH9/P7251835.jpg) (https://ibb.co/drNGGxk)
(https://i.ibb.co/8YsVw53/P7251836.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rd0Jh6P)
(https://i.ibb.co/tKvhftT/P7241833.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KhfGZkp)
Curtis
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Thoroughly enjoying your tutorial Curtis, thanks for posting the detailed photos of your process. This building thread really needs to be included in the Tutorial section of this forum I think.
When you showed the photo of drilling the tang with a 1/16" bit, I thought well he knows more than me (and who doesn't, eh?). I bloody hate that bit size and use a 5/64" (.078") or better yet a 3/32"(.093") minimum for drilling anything. Glad you sorted it out in the end though.
A friend tells me all the time that the sign of a craftsman is not how well he does his work, but how well he fixes his mistakes.
Thanks for "learning" me something again today and looking forward to your next installment!
An Alexander Henry fan, Mike
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Thanks GunnerMike! Went with the 1/6th drill because I only have the sixteenth and #29 available with my drill guide. The mistake happened when I used the #29, the 16th went right where planned fortunately. Remove chips often, especially with a small bit.
Curtis
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Thanks Curtis for taking the time to post your tutorial. Sure enjoyed it. What's a drip bar?
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Also heard it called a "drip rail". Soldered to the side of the barrel, ahead of the bolster.
Protects the wood ahead of the bolster and prevents rain from getting into the lock.(I guess)
(https://i.ibb.co/QY0D39T/100-7272-zpsl5ajotxw.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gtY4Lyf)
what is corundum used for (https://aluminumsulfate.net/aluminum-oxide)
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Thanks Curtis for taking the time to post your tutorial. Sure enjoyed it. What's a drip bar?
Daryl nailed it!
Curtis
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Elegance in the grand style of the British gun makers for sure.
It almost makes me want to make up one of these locks for no
real reason but to practice fancy filing.
Bob Roller
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For a change in pace I did some cleanup work on the trigger guard and barrel key. I still can't get over how nice these castings are to work with - for the key I cut off the sprue and ran it across a file to remove the casting scale and it was ready to install. I trimmed the trigger guard sprues and did some cleanup filing.
(https://i.ibb.co/4Y97zMq/P7271839.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D8sthkJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/qJbDgJf/P7271837.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nPhw1Pv)
(https://i.ibb.co/X5Z53Cj/P7271838.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xgSgf7X)
(https://i.ibb.co/0m5shyq/P7271841.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ckqYDhJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/0BYHCYd/P7281842.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TKP94PF)
While I was at it I deepened the guard hole in the trigger plate with a #3 drill, and tapped it 1/4-28.
(https://i.ibb.co/kxS3Lsd/P7271840.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MsC8zxX)
Curtis
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Lookin good Curtis ! You will be shooting that gun next week ! I find I do better work if I break up the file Nd cleanup work into multiple sessions spread through the project. I don’t have the discipline to do a good job all at one go. Looking forward to the next installment !!
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You are in luck Taylorz1, the next installment is already here! I'm right with you on spreading out the cleanup tasks.
I will soon be inletting the lock, however before doing that on a build I like to secure the barrel at both ends so it is in it's absolute final position when the lock goes in. Especially with a patent breech and a drip bar. I marked the lug location, placed the barrel on a flat surface wit a file under the lug area, and slid the barrel back and for once keeping the bottom flat of the breech flat on the surface. This gave me a center mark to work from.
(https://i.ibb.co/X8YW1P7/P7281845.jpg) (https://ibb.co/16z01Nr)
I marked the limits of my cuts, then using a new 14tpi hacksaw blade I cut a row of slots to depth, chisel the extra metal out and file the flat for the underlug.
(https://i.ibb.co/8sGG1Yp/P7281847.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zxCCq6Y)
(https://i.ibb.co/JdLjC9d/P7281848.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wLHhYfL)
(https://i.ibb.co/Vqfprbw/P7291853.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z4qHjC6)
To my eyes the slot looks perfectly level. BUT IT'S NOT! It is a good thing for the underlug to be straight, and it is critical for sight dovetails to be on the same plane. It is difficult to accurately judge a flat in a convex round surface. So I used a trick Jack Brooks had told me about in class one time, sighting down "winding sticks". An age old technique that works. I used a couple of parallel sided files as my winding sticks and here is what I saw:
(https://i.ibb.co/gjnTtXj/P7291852.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VjKSMhj)
(https://i.ibb.co/12rYr84/P7291851.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w6SZSM2)
So I did some corrective filing until the winding sticks looked like they were happy:
(https://i.ibb.co/d7Jsygf/P7291854.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x38KQH2)
Next I filed the dovetails into the slot and fit the underlug.
(https://i.ibb.co/nQZmZjz/P7291855.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VMr9rT2)
Once I was happy with a tight fit, I tapped the lug out with a hammer and punch, carefully and thinly coated the slot and bottom of the lug with low temp solder paste. After re fitting the lug, I staked it in tight and used a propane torch to heat the barrel and lug until the solder melted. Since I will be shooting heavy target loads I want the lug to be solid as a rock.
(https://i.ibb.co/MNGVKC6/P7291856.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s36wcVH)
To reduce the amount of filing I chiseled off most of the overhang. It also was a good test to see how solid the lug is! Then I cleaned up with a file.
(https://i.ibb.co/zF1tDyz/P7291857.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QkZxt24)
(https://i.ibb.co/5KvvVP3/P7291858.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Xbb5kS)
Then it's time to put some inlet black on the underlug, replace the barrel in the stock and mark the beginnings of the mortise.
(https://i.ibb.co/s944xdt/P7291861.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kxgg4pm)
I made reference marks with dividers and relieved the mortise a bit and refit the barrel for another marking.
(https://i.ibb.co/2ZptBzG/P7291863.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KK8qHtT)
Utilizing a mortising chisel I cut things deeper, and repeatedly inserted the barrel to mark material to remove. After a few fitting and cutting sessions the mortise is complete!
(https://i.ibb.co/RH1gVcv/P7291864.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WKQHYfx)
(https://i.ibb.co/QCjKRF3/P7291867.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mXFcwCV)
(https://i.ibb.co/cvCdS8z/P7291868.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mBX7VyQ)
Next item will be to cut the slot for the barrel key.
Thanks for looking, Curtis
-
Outstanding tutorial. None of the cast parts are products of 3rd rate tooling.
Don Brown told me he spared no expense to get this right and the breech
plug and tang are proof of that.Here is something to read,
Quality is NEVER accidental
It is always the result of high
intention,sincere effort,intelligent
direction and skillful execution
It represents the wise choice of
many alternatives,the cumulative
experience of many masters of craftsmanship
Quality also marks the search for ideal
after necessity has been satisfied and mere
usefulness achieved.
W.Foster
I do not know who this man or woman was but whoever
it was had a handle on the subject. My mother always said it was
a woman,Willow Foster.
Here re my own ideas about quality
Quality is the conscious rejection of mediocrity
It represents a tangible gesture of indifference
to expediency in and of a goal itself
It is a demonstration of excellence for its
own sake.It reflects no ordinary line of thought
nor does it relish the commonplace.
Bob Roller
-
Your philosophy, Bob, is spot on. I have a saying I use as frequently as I can, during a build. "It's perfect, but it's good enough."
My father was a man like you, Bob. The things he accomplished were a marvel to his contemporaries, and when they praised him for his work, he would simply say, "Routine".
-
Your philosophy, Bob, is spot on. I have a saying I use as frequently as I can, during a build. "It's perfect, but it's good enough."
My father was a man like you, Bob. The things he accomplished were a marvel to his contemporaries, and when they praised him for his work, he would simply say, "Routine".
Taylor,
I think your rifle and pistol builds reflect this attitude as well.
Your father was good at whatever he did and he knew it without throwing it
at whoever he was speaking to."Routine"to a man like that means,It's done
and done well"
Thank you for your comment on my own ideas about quality.I think--Know
I am past my prime and have had to redo some small parts recently.
No more lock orders and if I make any more I will post them here.
Bob Roller
-
Wonderful insights on quality there gentlemen! Positive posts like those are part of what makes this site great to visit. ;D
I had a phone conversation with Rod a while back, he seems to be a very dedicated to the quality of his parts. He has been spending a great deal of time working on improvements to make the kits even better.
Curtis
-
Very Nice work Curtis :)
Runar
-
I first got to really know Rod England a few years ago while we were both shooting at the World long range matches for the USA.
Rod and I practiced and hung out that week together. Rod is a good guy and he has spent quite a few years getting the pieces and parts ready to go for a complete rifle. When I would see him at Oakridge or Friendship in the past few years he would pull something out of his truck or his pocket to show me the next piece or part that he got nailed down.
Rod is dedicated to putting out a high quality product.
Fleener
-
I first got to really know Rod England a few years ago while we were both shooting at the World long range matches for the USA.
Rod and I practiced and hung out that week together. Rod is a good guy and he has spent quite a few years getting the pieces and parts ready to go for a complete rifle. When I would see him at Oakridge or Friendship in the past few years he would pull something out of his truck or his pocket to show me the next piece or part that he got nailed down.
Rod is dedicated to putting out a high quality product.
Fleener
Rod has asked me for locks of this type but I can't do much for him now.
I think,since 1987 when I made my first "4 pin"lock I have sold about 40
of these----maybe.I also made patterns from an original lock on a Whitworth
boy's rifle which is another "4 pin" scaled down and 7 of those are around
One more started several years ago and languishing in a drawer now.The
man that wanted it cancelled the order when he found out they were $400.
Yesterday I started a 3 pin mechanism for a German styled Schuetzen lock'
and have made a few of these of Henry/Stanton pattern with the 3 pin bridle.
It and one more caplock and that's it.
Bob Roller
-
Rod is making his own locks now, they are CNC manufactured. I will post more photos when I inlet the lock but here are a couple for reference. Notice how low the mainspring sits, much like an original English lock. This helps with fitting up to larger barrels, etc.
(https://i.ibb.co/3cNtbBB/P6281633-Copy.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/3pQLJKL/P6281635-Copy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X7MvwHv)
From conversations with Rod I gathered he didn't get much if any in the way of molds or anything else to do with manufacturing from Don Brown's estate, and he has had to pretty much start over from scratch.
Curtis
-
In preparation for installing the barrel key, I start removing most of the excess wood on the sides of the forestock. I am not finish shaping yet, just getting rid of the bulk of excess.
(https://i.ibb.co/HPQVDz6/P7301869.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fN72Ypf)
Next I get an accurate measurement of where the center of the slot in the underlug is. Here I am using a pin locating guide made by Dave Kanger years ago, it is a great tool for such tasks. The masking tape is my addition, helps me keep track of the correct hole in the guide. Since the barrel is round at the location of the underlug I used a flat rule clamped to the octagon portion of the barrel to keep the guide square with the world.
(https://i.ibb.co/b72YDHx/P7301870.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yVYK7hD)
(https://i.ibb.co/QnHf6DL/P7301871.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gwW3D4N)
The barrel is replaced in the stock, held firm in position and a line scribed on both sides of the stock. I also pricked a point on the vertical centerline of the lug, again both sides.
(https://i.ibb.co/vDXJPvL/P7301872.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZN2h81c)
Utilizing the prick points, I drilled a 1.16" hole using a drill guide. For small bits like this I clear the chips every sixteenth inch or so, it goes a long way in helping the keep the hole straight.
(https://i.ibb.co/MkyyRZ0/P7301873.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d4ssQjY)
Once the hole was through, I verified the location was good, then drilled the hole a tad larger using a 5/64" bit. Next I used my barrel key tools manufactured from old needle files. One is a small mortise chisel, the other a saw that cuts on the push stroke.
(https://i.ibb.co/RPSBNWB/P7301874.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7VzRQFR)
(https://i.ibb.co/xMWd9L4/P7301875.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8jqtvsh)
Once the slot is through I check it with a flashlight. Looks pretty good!
(https://i.ibb.co/VMK3wLf/P7301876.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xz43F2x)
(https://i.ibb.co/PxHqZpn/P7301877.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jhXnvK2)
I work the slot until the key almost fits, then I heat the key with a propane torch and "melt" it through the slot. The metal is just hot enough to barely burn the wood, not so hot as to char it or catch it on fire!
(https://i.ibb.co/NNYJjx3/P7311879.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4SNXTWf)
There it is! All the way through. Now the barrel is secure and I will move on to the drip bar and lock.
(https://i.ibb.co/9Tmr9dW/P7311880.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C7pH5SQ)
Curtis
-
After cleaning up the insides of the drip bar it is time to solder it to the barrel. I wanted to insure that it would be tight against the patent breech, and I did not want any solder to stick to the breech or find it's way into the plug threads - so I used a sharpened soapstone marker to fill the joint between the patent breech and barrel, and coated the front of the snail while I was at it. I put a thin coat of self fluxing solder paste on the inside of the drip bar and the barrel where the drip bar will sit. The drip bar was clamped in place and I cleaned up the solder that squeezed out. Then I heated the parts with a propane torch.
(https://i.ibb.co/SxV1wwJ/P8011883.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KGVQxxm)
(https://i.ibb.co/Th7fTng/P8011884.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0J67XWG)
Then the drip bar was filed flush with the breeches:
(https://i.ibb.co/tBHLp27/P8011885.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sjgW910)
Next I begin the process of inletting the drip bar. The standing breech was put back in the stock and then the barrel was put in place until the drip bar contacted the stock. I remove wood where the inlet black leaves a mark. The process is repeated until the barrel is all the way down.
(https://i.ibb.co/f41SBbP/P8011888.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BqzPdmS)
(https://i.ibb.co/Jyfbjhn/P8011887.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MGYjkXn)
Once the barrel is seated I begin inletting the lock. After some careful positioning and test fitting with the hammer in place I determined that the some metal will have to come off the lock bolster area as indicated with the blue marker.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZxD3fbq/P8021891.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6FC2yqj)
(https://i.ibb.co/zhMm2Xg/P8021892.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N6vFN9q)
Holding the plate tightly in place I scribe around the plate, then stab in the scribed line with some shop made tools. The straighter lines are "roll stabbed" with the larger tool.
(https://i.ibb.co/51ZJFtd/P8021895.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D1djpsN)
(https://i.ibb.co/sCYvjzG/P8021896.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G9Sv7NL)
(https://i.ibb.co/HDYvH6n/P8021897.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zhbc4pG)
As the lock started to go in I painted the surfaces contacting metal with a blue Sharpie and carefully filed where interference was indicated.
(https://i.ibb.co/LRmYW32/P8041898.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B3bcx9S)
Tapping on a wood block helps to seat the lock in the inlet and gives good color transfer.
(https://i.ibb.co/Y2sWjfW/P8041901.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y0jRsgR)
The lock panels are tapered towards the wrist, so once the bolster contacts the standing breech, I file the bolster to reflect the appropriate angle. This will require some adjustment as I go deeper with the lock. The angle of the bolster can be seen against the machinist's square leg. The front face of the bolster requires some tapering as well.
(https://i.ibb.co/d0F83T3/P8051902.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7JPsTfT)
(https://i.ibb.co/YTZ4W67/P8051903.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x8HKsyS)
(https://i.ibb.co/RYqJHgv/P8051904.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wBf26d0)
Once the lock plate is close to being down I positioned it firmly against the standing breech and drip bar and clamp it in place. I then drilled through the side panel into the lock bolster with an undersized drill, then a tap drill, clearance drill in the wood and then tapped the lock plate.
(https://i.ibb.co/nzqcrVQ/P8061907.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gzbTyXt)
When I drilled for bolt clearance I used a numbered bit one size below the recommended clearance drill, then slightly relieved the top and front side of the hole with a small file to encourage the plate to be pulled slightly up and forward.
(https://i.ibb.co/YbNH5tB/P8061908.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b76c4r5)
Now I can use the lock bolt to pull the plate tight into the mortise and remove any markings that show interference. I inlet the plate with the bridle and tumbler installed.
(https://i.ibb.co/h9x6Z2W/P8061910.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W5NhPBy)
(https://i.ibb.co/cgDCgCQ/P8061913.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HFnxFxq)
It fits tightly in place and I am ready to install the remaining lock internals and adjust the inlet to fit them.
(https://i.ibb.co/Swv7ncd/P8061915.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8g845bd)
Notice how the nicely tapered spring sits low on the plate, for barrel and ramrod hole clearance. Also note how the tumbler rests on the bridle and prevents the spring from being able to bust out the bottom of the lock mortise if the lock were accidentally tripped without a hammer or nipple in place.
(https://i.ibb.co/Xbd94q1/P8061918.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yXMDRrt)
Thanks for looking,
Curtis
-
This is truly an exceptional quality lock, the nicest I have ever handled. (never had the opportunity to handle a Roller lock yet) The tolerances of the tumbler fit, as well as the sear pin are very tight, basically a press fit yet the parts all move freely. The lower leg of the mainspring remains and flat in the loaded full cock position
(https://i.ibb.co/cDsPgpv/P8071919.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0hzkDWX)
I cleaned up the trigger casting a bit and drilled holes for the trigger screw and spring.
(https://i.ibb.co/C0MWMd6/P8061916.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bd272hF)
(https://i.ibb.co/JpMh5Pn/P8061917.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xgR4JQh)
Then I drilled and tapped the trigger plate for the trigger screw, and reamed the clearance side with an 1/8" reamer. After completing that I recessed the trigger screw head with a mill so it tightened at the screw shoulder and head at the same time. The screw was filed down nearly flush where the threaded end protruded.
(https://i.ibb.co/zsv3s54/P8071923.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9n5xnvr)
(https://i.ibb.co/GPTZBfF/P8071925.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JkQY0WC)
(https://i.ibb.co/pvWFbRH/P8071928.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWH4JQF)
Next the trigger was installed in the gun and the lock was replaced as well as it would fit. I had put some inlet black in the end of the sear to mark where it was hitting the trigger blade.
(https://i.ibb.co/GtFqQ26/P8071929.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CMWfK7c)
The trigger blade was filed till it slightly cleared the sear.
(https://i.ibb.co/L84NG8y/P8071930.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XbmYwbP)
(https://i.ibb.co/c284Dc9/P8071932.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vLd0ZxW)
Everything was assembled and the trigger was test fired. It works!! ;D Now I am ready to move on to the next phase....
(https://i.ibb.co/2cGLXdm/P8071931.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7rsT7K8)
(https://i.ibb.co/BVd200C/P8071933.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PZ3Gqq6)
Curtis
-
Looking good! I have a question though. Why don't these long range rifles use set triggers? You would think that if extreme accuracy was your goal, you would use the lightest/best trigger available.
-
Why don't these long range rifles use set triggers?
Because the rules don't allow them and there are weight restrictions on the trigger pull, as well as the rifle itself.
-
In reply to Justin's question about no set triggers here is an answer.
These are ENGLISH rifles and the very high quality of these locks
eliminates the need for a set trigger and most of the people that
bought these new were military or former military and weren't used
to a light touch trigger of any kind. The single set triggers are seen
on English hunting rifles for whatever reason and of course a wide variety
of pistols but not on long range rifles.Also,there are RULES against set triggers
and locks tuned until the weight of a shadow can set them off.
I used a Whitworth semi military long range rifle for 11 years and the superb
Brazier lock needed no help from ANY kind of spring driven trigger.
In 2001 I started one of these rifles with a Green Mountain barrel and
used Don Brown's semi finished stalking rifle stock,a TOW trigger guard
and butt plate.my copy of the 4 screw Stanton lock,Don's assembled trigger
and finally got it to the range for testing in 2003.I also made my own tang
sight* adapted to the 2 "ears" that are on the standing breech and a Lyman
17A front sight with a spirit level base I made for it.On the original guns,
most of them got windage from the front sight only.It shot better than I
could and results against breech loaders at 500 Meters was outstanding
using a 560 grain grease grooved bullet from a custom mould that I still
have.
*This tang sight had an 8x40 thread elevating screw and that is the .025
calibration of an American micrometer and the staff was so marked using
my milling machine's calibrations.
Bob Roller
-
Curtis,
I have been watching your progress on the A.H. Ron England rifle. The following comments are offered in the spirit help, advise, and a 30 year love affair with British match rifles.
So far progress includes at least 3 areas that cannot be called ‘wrong’ but indeed are non-typical of work commonly found on these rifles.
First, I have never seen a dove-tailed underlug for the cross nail (aka barrel key) on a match rifle. Rather the common method is shown in the pictures below. The under lug blank is mortised into the barrel, then the edges of the mortise are upset with a chisel locating the lug for finish work. Lug blank is fitted to mortise using a slight taper on all 4 sides of the lug. Then, the standing excess material around the lug is peened down and filed to finish. Also, a retainer pin is found on the left side of the forend adjacent to the lug. This retainer pin fits the slot in the key keeping the key captured in the stock. This pin (about a 1/2”long) is usually threaded and the screwdriver slot is quite small as there is no head on the body of the screw.
[(https://i.ibb.co/DpMF15j/turner-underlug.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C29ywhS) Thomas Turner
[[(https://i.ibb.co/WV9wXRs/rigby-lug.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6XhxSqN) Rigby
(https://i.ibb.co/X8BBVvv/ah-underlug.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YZ99bqq) Alex Henry
(https://i.ibb.co/n8pBXNQ/turner-forend.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DgdYBHw)
Trigger assy: Again typically, the trigger pivot screw head is small enough to leave about a .040 -.050” wide ring of material around the rear half of the trigger assy at the pivot. Also the screw head is flush with the body of the trigger base.
(https://i.ibb.co/fpZR5TD/IMG-1931.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MVKT4JB)
Typically, a small trigger return spring is mounted on the plate and extends to the trigger body itself. This spring is just powerful enough to keep the trigger up against the sear.
(https://i.ibb.co/7Yj1c7N/IMG-1932.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ng6L2h8)
Other observations.
I can’t tell from the posted pictures what the nipple seat looks like. Without exception, the bottom of the threaded hole is shaped to the form of a rounded radius with a small flash hole going down into the breech. A platinum lined nipple is required because of pressures and erosion caused by firing. A standard steel nipple can burn out in as few as 10-20 shots. The platinum nipple is radiused on the bottom to match the breech radius. When the nipple is seated properly, the two radisus fit tightly together leaving only the communication hole down into the breech.
Breech cross flash channel plug. You have two choices……A stainless steel plug will give functional and correct appearance but is not H.C. These plugs were always made of platinum.
Tang screw always reflects a slight taper over its length. Properly fitted, the taper causes a slight rearward movement of the standing breech essentially locking the wood and metal together.
Jim
-
Curtis, is this half-bent or full?
Would sure make capping at 1/2 bent easier than if closer.
Nice fitting, all 'round' - inlet and soldering. Thanks for the tutorial on that.
(https://i.ibb.co/GxXpfNr/Curtis-hammer.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cgP3KVs)
-
Greetings, Very nice work Curtis. Enjoy following your projects. Hank
-
Greetings, Very nice work Curtis. Enjoy following your projects. Hank
Perhaps,like a Hawken rifle,we will do well today to make a good representation
even if all the nuances of the old ones are not in place.I am glad to see this tutorial
even though I have no plans to make another long range muzzle loader again.
Bob Roller
-
Quote: "make a good representation even if all the nuances of the old ones are not in place".
Bob,
You seem to have drifted a bit away from 'Quality is the conscious rejection of mediocrity' you noted earlier. These rifles are the final evolution' of the percussion system and represent the British term "Best Gun" to the fullest. They deserve our best efforts. Since when is close enough good enough?
Jim
-
Looking good! I have a question though. Why don't these long range rifles use set triggers? You would think that if extreme accuracy was your goal, you would use the lightest/best trigger available.
Justin, it looks like Dave and Bob already gave you better answers than I had on the subject! Good question.
Curtis
-
Curtis,
I have been watching your progress on the A.H. Ron England rifle. The following comments are offered in the spirit help, advise, and a 30 year love affair with British match rifles....
....Jim
Jim, thanks for the photos and comments. I had received some photos from another acquaintance of a Rigby underlug and a description of how it is dovetailed into the barrel - after I had the lug installed, unfortunately. Sometimes a person doesn't know what questions that need to be asked until they learn enough about a type of gun. :-\ I have saved your photos and info for future reference, things to know for future builds. The kit came with a dovetailed lug so I installed it without knowing what was done on the originals.
I have a trigger spring for my trigger, just haven't installed it yet. I will take note of the trigger screw configuration in your photo for the next rifle.
I purchased a platinum lined nipple for the gun, after reading your post I will finish the seat in the snail to match the radius of the nipple. It currently appears to be milled close to flat. Good info to know there! The kit came with a stainless plug for the breech cross flash channel plug - I will use that for now until I can come across an appropriately sized piece of platinum to make one.
The tang screw that came with the kit is properly tapered, and I reamed the hole in the stock to the proper taper with a bit more relief on the back side of the hole to pull the standing breech rearward.
You seem to have some pretty good resources at your disposal there - if you have an original lock with a stalking safety similar to one of those pictured below I would love to see how the slide and spring is made and how it is slotted into the pock plate. I would like to duplicate one on a future Alexander Henry stalking rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/DVbWbtN/0001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BzP3Ptm)
(https://i.ibb.co/xmmbnC7/Screenshot-2019-06-12-Monty-Whitley-Inc-ALEXANDER-HENRY-BEST-QUALITY-LONG-RANGE-MATCH-RIFLE-IN-IT-S-ORIGINAL-CASE-1.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
Thanks, Curtis
-
Curtis, is this half-bent or full?
Would sure make capping at 1/2 bent easier than if closer.
Nice fitting, all 'round' - inlet and soldering. Thanks for the tutorial on that.
(https://i.ibb.co/GxXpfNr/Curtis-hammer.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cgP3KVs)
Daryl, in the photo the cock is at half cock.
Curtis
-
In reply to Justin's question about no set triggers here is an answer.
These are ENGLISH rifles and the very high quality of these locks
eliminates the need for a set trigger and most of the people that
bought these new were military or former military and weren't used
to a light touch trigger of any kind. The single set triggers are seen
on English hunting rifles for whatever reason and of course a wide variety
of pistols but not on long range rifles.Also,there are RULES against set triggers
and locks tuned until the weight of a shadow can set them off.
I used a Whitworth semi military long range rifle for 11 years and the superb
Brazier lock needed no help from ANY kind of spring driven trigger.
In 2001 I started one of these rifles with a Green Mountain barrel and
used Don Brown's semi finished stalking rifle stock,a TOW trigger guard
and butt plate.my copy of the 4 screw Stanton lock,Don's assembled trigger
and finally got it to the range for testing in 2003.I also made my own tang
sight* adapted to the 2 "ears" that are on the standing breech and a Lyman
17A front sight with a spirit level base I made for it.On the original guns,
most of them got windage from the front sight only.It shot better than I
could and results against breech loaders at 500 Meters was outstanding
using a 560 grain grease grooved bullet from a custom mould that I still
have.
*This tang sight had an 8x40 thread elevating screw and that is the .025
calibration of an American micrometer and the staff was so marked using
my milling machine's calibrations.
Bob Roller
Thanks for the answer, Bob. What twist was that GM barrel you used, and where did you find the mold? I'm thinking of going with a GM barrel for my bullet gun build too.
-
Curtis, do you know if Rob just sells the breeches nipples, and plugs?
-
Curtis,
I just happen to have a lock on the bench now that is here for repair. and I even have it apart!.....it has a rear sliding safety as found on A.H. work. Will take some pictures for you. Probably should post them here so that others interested/curious and see them as well.
Up coming work you will have.
The method of attaching the black horn forend tip seems to be almost unique to the British gun trade in this period. Think I have some pictures on my other computer. Watch ebay for water buffalo horns. I bought a big full set for $50 some time ago. Makes wonderful butt plates as well.
Sights. Unfortunately there are no sights available that I am aware of which reflect the function and quality of the original sights on these rifles. Both the vernier rear threaded staff screw and the wind gage front screw used double lead threads to minimize adjustment effort. Originals also used a platinum scale on the side of the rear vernier. If you are a precision machinist it may be possible to use the 'frame' of a contemporary vernier sight and replace the screw with a #4 dia. double lead replacement. That said, there is a variety available witch will work OK. Ask Snapper about which ones to consider. If you win the lottery just buy a complete original set :) :) .
If you think I may be able to help, please do ask.
Jim
-
I have a safety on my Rigby as well if you need or want more pictures. Might be a few days before I can get to it however.
I know Jim does not post much here and most people dont know him. I have known Jim for a several years I have had him do work on rifles in the past for me.
Jim did the restoration work on my original Rigby LRML for me. I could not think of anyone that I would trust more to work on a rifle like that. His knowledge and work in this area is simply second to none.
Fleener
-
Quote: "make a good representation even if all the nuances of the old ones are not in place".
Bob,
You seem to have drifted a bit away from 'Quality is the conscious rejection of mediocrity' you noted earlier. These rifles are the final evolution' of the percussion system and represent the British term "Best Gun" to the fullest. They deserve our best efforts. Since when is close enough good enough?
Jim
I haven't drifted away from anything.There are any number of skill levels to take into account and
these superb rifles were NOT the end result of ONE man no matter whose name is on the lock plate.
There were barrel makers,lock filers,percussioners(breech plug)light metal work like trigger guards and
butt plates.Frequently our "best efforts"are NOT up to the masters of the past but the fact many of us are
trying hard works for me.I am not a gun stocker nor am I a maker of trigger guards and butt plates but
I CAN make a decent,useful gun lock and the absence of locks being returned for repair tells me I have
made at least a few that are still working and for over 50 years.
Bob Roller
-
Justin,
I used a 1 and1/8"GM barrel and turned it to round,all but the last 2" to match the
breech plug.It had a one in 18 twist and the custom mould was made by Ron Long
and given to me years ago by the now late Joe Baldwin in Illinois.Ron used Lyman
blocks to make this.I think Rod sells the plugs as a separate item but the best thing
is to contact him and find out.<rtengland864@aol.com>.
Bob Roller
-
Curtis here are some photos of a Brazier lock from a Whitworth rifle with a safety in front of the hammer:
(https://i.ibb.co/Y04VmrW/Braizer-lock-02.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J3WSVhd)
(https://i.ibb.co/bN8Y3T0/Braizer-lock-03.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3SLVs23)
(https://i.ibb.co/2FJkJCv/Braizer-lock-04a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JcZsZGv)
Hope this helps some. Mike
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That looks like the lock on the Whitworth I had.Is it #730 by chance?
Thanks for posting this. I have made only one of these Brazier style
locks and that was about 15 years ago..
Bob Roller
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Curtis,
I just happen to have a lock on the bench now that is here for repair. and I even have it apart!.....it has a rear sliding safety as found on A.H. work. Will take some pictures for you. Probably should post them here so that others interested/curious and see them as well.......
Jim
That would be fantastic if you could do that, Jim! I have made a stalking safety for a lock before, using an English lock I have as and example - however the stalking safeties on the Alex Henry rifles look like they are a completely different animal from what I have seen in the past.
It is awesome to see we are getting some in-depth discussion rolling on this thread, exactly what I was hoping for! I would also be interested in seeing the photos of how the horn tips were attached. I was thinking about using a Schnabel for-end for this target rifle but you just might persuade me do use a traditional horn tip. ;D
Curtis
Curtis
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Curtis, do you know if Rob just sells the breeches nipples, and plugs?
Justin, if you contact Rod he can send you a complete list of parts with pricing. His contact info is in the "review" thread. He offers all the various parts separately.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=54946.0 (http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=54946.0)
Curtis
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Curtis here are some photos of a Brazier lock from a Whitworth rifle with a safety in front of the hammer:
(https://i.ibb.co/Y04VmrW/Braizer-lock-02.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J3WSVhd)
(https://i.ibb.co/bN8Y3T0/Braizer-lock-03.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3SLVs23)
(https://i.ibb.co/2FJkJCv/Braizer-lock-04a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JcZsZGv)
Hope this helps some. Mike
Mike, the photos help a great deal. The two interior shots offer up a wealth of information, it appears that the safety slides on a screw in a short slot. I'm thinking the spring is incorporated in the external bar of the safety. If Jim posts his photos of the disassembled lock and safety it will greatly clarify the issue.
Curtis
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That looks like the lock on the Whitworth I had.Is it #730 by chance?......
Bob Roller
Bob, I can see the number 867 stamped on the inside of the lock plate on the bottom photo, does that by chance match the serial number?
Curtis
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Where does the front sliding safety engage to hold the hammer and/or tumbler? I'm not as familiar with this design. I have seen rear sliding safeties slide into a notch in the hammer itself, but I do not see such a notch on this lock.
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Curtis,
I don't know about the number in the lock matching the gun.That Brazier pattern is still a beautiful
lock no matter what.The Stanton fishtail bridle is easier to make and I might do another one while
I still have material in the shop.
FlintFan,
On the Whitworth/Henry I owned the sliding safety engaged an area on the back side
of the hammer at half cock. I got into the habit of engaging it by pulling the hammer
to half cock when gun rotated in recoil.The the engagement area was a semi circle that
had a slot in it that was coordinated with the half cock position in the tumbler.I have
never tried to copy it but a Canadian friend,Ted Girodat put one behind the hammer on a
"4 pin" lock I made for him.He made a Henry that was every bit as good as the original
he had in his collection of fine English rifles.Maybe someone with one of these locks can
take the hammer off and show the way the safety in front of the hammer works.
Bob Roller
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To(http://ok some pictures today of the safety on a small lock used on a 'Park' or 'Rook' rifle by William Moore 5 of the pictures were taken with a 20X microscope with the hope that they would show good detail. A 10X lens would have been ideal but I dont have one. Lets have a look.
Exterior of the lock. Slot is only .050" longer than the safety body. The body is .130" wide and about .600" long. Engagement tab is .100" tall
[img])(https://i.ibb.co/HCPgRvc/IMG-1939.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DYMKmXB)
Inside of the lock. Here you can see the inside of the safety body. 2 aspects are of interest. Method of attaching the two outside and inside pieces of the safety body and the rounded nub which interacts with a corresponding nub on the tension spring. First a normal picture. Notice the shiny spot atop the body...it is the top of a headless screw which goes down thru the body and a mortised tab from the front half of the safety. Lets have a look.
url=https://ibb.co/rcSsmgg](https://i.ibb.co/QCRdfZZ/IMG-1938.jpg)[/url]
Magnified view of screw and mortise.
(https://i.ibb.co/PgTH8zj/mortise-cross-screw.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KWNvHzh)
And the tab/mortise joint.
(https://i.ibb.co/KL98jH9/safety-bar-mortise.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5n5JWV5)
Rear inside portion of the body has a round topped nub which interacts with another rounded nub on the inside of the tension spring. Two views, regular and magnified.
co/4JRRDJv/safety-detent.jpg[/img] (https://ibb.co/2533L5V)
(https://i.ibb.co/QCRdfZZ/IMG-1938.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rcSsmgg)
Finally, a look at the tension spring and sear spring. Notice the nub toward the end of the tension spring it is .040" wide and .040" tall. Fit of the two springs is amazing. Both are secured by a single screw.
(https://i.ibb.co/hL6Y05W/IMG-1941.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NtvTRhj)
(https://i.ibb.co/vmqJWrp/IMG-1943.jpg) (https://ibb.co/92gq0f6)
Forgot a pic of the front of the lock. This is the end of the mortise showing the .050" longer mortise than the safety body, allowing for travel.
(https://i.ibb.co/F3G9WCc/mortise-inside.png) (https://ibb.co/tKyShFn)
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Some how I lost the beginning of the above post.
The locking tab protrudes up .110" and engages a mating notch on the rear of the hammer at half cock, Travel forward in the mortise is .050". All sorts of shapes are found on the "push-pull" bump.
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Thanks for the photos and descriptions Jim! Does that safety lock both the hammer and the tumbler?
Curtis
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Curtis,
The safety engages the rear of the hammer at half cock, and does not engage the tumbler.
(https://i.ibb.co/58C2zpM/IMG-1925.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pzNnsV0)
I mentioned above somewhere about attachment of the horn forend tip. As you can see a tab that is about 3/16" thick at the bottom flat and going up the quartering flat. As a blank, the tab will be about an inch long and a half inch tall. Fit, then glue then shape to barrel shape. (The little hole was used by the checkerer to hold the front of the stock.)
(https://i.ibb.co/QjyHsYX/IMG-1936.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z1qgycN)
(https://i.ibb.co/wQ7ktR1/IMG-1935.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VCx16t8)
Here is a good picture of the cross key retainer pin typically found on match rifles
(https://i.ibb.co/kh1g8KS/best-forend-key-illust.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VvmWSVq)
Jim
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Jim, thanks for the post, LOTS of useful information there. I really appreciate your willingness to help out and share some of your knowledge!
Curtis
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Tks Curtis.
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You're welcome Daryl!
This is likely my last post on this gun for a week or two, I will be attending the CLA show and have some other obligations.
After reading one of westbj2's posts I took a closer look at the nipple seating. The nipple is platinum lined and the bottom is rounded with a gentle radius. The nipple seat in the patent breech was flat on the bottom and the nipple shoulder was standing proud when the nipple was bottomed out.
(https://i.ibb.co/kDkWL8d/P8111940.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gWHB0Tn)
Since the snail was already threaded I needed a special tool that wouldn't bugger the threads while cutting a radiused bottom to the nipple seat. So I took a broken drill shank that would slip into the hole, filed it to the profile of the convex nipple bottom, then filed some fine shallow cutting teeth on the improvised tool:
(https://i.ibb.co/d0FH58P/P8111934.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xSWr7x1)
First two teeth filed in:
(https://i.ibb.co/Kb6bTKx/P8111935.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4KWKh1R)
All teeth cut:
(https://i.ibb.co/rkp4s35/P8111936.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v1dZYhL)
(https://i.ibb.co/thPCZJQ/P8111938.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N3nY1yt)
The cutter was then hardened and drawn back to a straw color. I lubricated the end, chucked it in a hand drill and carefully went to work on the nipple seat, removing chips fairly often. The chips were fine like dust and made a slurry in the cutting oil.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZY73d7M/P8111941.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9VSJnSr)
(https://i.ibb.co/cr9jZHH/P8111942.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P6ydPnn)
The fine teeth left a polished surface on the nipple seat. I ran a bottoming tap down the hole, painted the nipple end with a blue Sharpie and replaced the nipple. In this photo I still had a couple of thousandths to go before the shoulder was seated. The blue marker on the nipple indicated a good seat. I will have to take another photograph of the completely seated nipple.
(https://i.ibb.co/BgGhhrX/P8111943.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HrCccxW)
I decided it was time to fit the trigger guard to the stock, but first I needed to install the screw at the rear of the trigger plate.
(https://i.ibb.co/L5jj043/P8121947.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2NVVFXT)
(https://i.ibb.co/nfHzf6m/P8121948.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ctGDtk3)
I had to do some bending of the guard to match the stock profile, then held it in place to scribe around the finial. Wood was removed, inlet black painted on the guard, and the fit then cut process was repeated until the finial was all the way in.
(https://i.ibb.co/mGFph7p/P8121949.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FKqp8tp)
(https://i.ibb.co/CQ4KQ6s/P8131950.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pdNjdQr)
I got it center punched for the screw hole and had to quit for the day.
(https://i.ibb.co/CQ4KQ6s/P8131950.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pdNjdQr)
That's all for now!
Curtis
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Curtis,
You got the nipple seat just right!
Jim
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Curtis,
You got the nipple seat just right!
Jim
Thanks for the input, Jim!
Curtis
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Back at it for a few days!
I drilled and screwed down the trigger guard extension, then located the pistol grip cap on the stock and taped it in place. Next I tapped a drill bit with a hammer to locate the hole, then started the hole with a center drill. A temp screw was then used to secure the grip cap.
(https://i.ibb.co/QJ2rskL/P8291979.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VL72XxR)
(https://i.ibb.co/gtYQ8cR/P8291980.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6DQGSqW)
(https://i.ibb.co/VWcRZDd/P8291981.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5Wgmyvd)
(https://i.ibb.co/xMkzt7N/P8291982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MRvPxCm)
(https://i.ibb.co/RpFHR9z/P9212035.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LzFpV8n)
After studying some photos of original Alexander Henry rifles found online and obtained from other sources, it became apparent that the drip bar, patent breech and standing breech should all be tapered to match the angle of the lock plate to the wrist. You can see in this photo what they look like before filing them to the correct angle.
(https://i.ibb.co/Vt9HXc1/P9182013.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pxwWCB7)
I scribed a line on the parts to be filed along the surface of the lock plate for reference, then clamped a scrap of a hacksaw blade to the assembly to use as a reference. The drip bar and the snail breech will be a bit proud of the lock plate, and the standing breech will be the same height.
(https://i.ibb.co/59XqHnn/P9182014.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qnLbQWW)
The drip bar and snail breech were finished by filing a small angle where they meet the lock plate, and the standing breech was left flat and level with the lock plate.
(https://i.ibb.co/fM13Rnq/P9232052-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Curtis
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When I was fitting the trigger blade to the sear, I got a bit over zealous in my filing and it affected the appearance of the trigger in the guard. A mentor sent me some photos of how the trigger shoe should "flow" with the curve of the guard, to me it should appear to continue the "scroll" shape. I could have ordered a new trigger and started over, but I was encouraged to make a new trigger myself.
I started by making some reference marks on a scrap of 1/4" steel plate, drilled some holes where there will be a radius, and sawed out the rough shape. I opted to cut and file the trigger shoe instead of forging it like I would on an American rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/Jntf0SH/P9111995.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Wt690p)
(https://i.ibb.co/wsMKxgD/P9111996.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zJGS0xK)
Thinning the blade area with a saw:
(https://i.ibb.co/fYQfFfj/P9121999.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GvFypyz)
Trimming around the shoe:
(https://i.ibb.co/C7W5Brn/P9122000.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hWCRsqK)
I filed the blade flat and true, then did some trimming, drilled the pivot hole and test fit.
(https://i.ibb.co/jhjv9L0/P9142001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wy2NZKG)
(https://i.ibb.co/sbJ6zXS/P9142003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zQH7Dtc)
Next I went to work on filing the shoe:
(https://i.ibb.co/41NL1ND/P9162005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6XsSXsp)
(https://i.ibb.co/G3ffD9B/P9162007.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Vp00Gxr)
(https://i.ibb.co/6sQrRrx/P9182008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mzpbCbw)
Did a final check for appearance, made some adjustments
(https://i.ibb.co/2ttpm2r/P9182019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QNNxzBV)
Once satisfied I drilled the hole for the return spring and installed it, and fit the blade to the sear a bit more carefully this time.
(https://i.ibb.co/PFgB0Wf/P9232052.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pbdC5K9)
I will likely make some adjustments with the little tab and refine the shoe a bit more, but I think it is good enough for now.
Thanks for looking, Curtis
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Looking great. I'm excited to hear how it shoots when you're finished
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Great work and tutorial. Thanks!
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Very nice Curtis
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Curtis,
Guard and trigger flow nicely. Good job and big improvement! Final tweaking should include a little work on the edges of the guard. Looks like the blunt edges now are in the range of .010 or .015". I would "sharpen" them a bit so that they are not knife edged but have just the slightest soft edges.....Maybe .005" or a little less.
Also, the lock plate and drip bar/barrel relationship look fine.
Jim
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Wonderful work, Curtis and so well photographed. Thanks! I have all of the pictures in a file named: "Curtis' Alexander Henry Build"
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Thanks for the positive input fellas!
Jim, the trigger guard has just been filed enough to remove the casting scale and will need a lot of work for the final shaping, your provided info will be very useful in that process! I'll post some pics when I get it closer to finished and would appreciate you looking them over and give more critique on what might need more work. Your advice has been most helpful to this project!
Curtis
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For a change of pace I decided to cut the dovetail for the front sight. I painted the area with some Dykem and scratched some reference lines, then went to work with the hacksaw and file.
(https://i.ibb.co/sFZzBrM/P9222043.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tb9Fd5W)
(https://i.ibb.co/7vcQJgW/P9222044.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hs5cRXW)
(https://i.ibb.co/NC7MLnR/P9222046.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bm7krRt)
(https://i.ibb.co/thvj32x/P9222048.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GJ8YFMt)
(https://i.ibb.co/f0tw2RF/P9222050.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7yVmXcC)
(https://i.ibb.co/nQ2jRyr/P9222051.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7rcKbDv)
I removed the sight assembly after getting it fitted to prevent damaging it.
Curtis
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For those among us who are not familiar with these long range rifles,that is a
serious front sight and has windage and a spirit level to keep the rifle level at
1000 to 1200 yards.This type of rifle was the ultimate muzzle loader and were
in use long after the development of long range breech loaders. I like them better
than the breech loaders for target shooting because the load can be changed on
the range regarding powder charges and bullets,paper patched or grease grooved.
No brass to clean either.
Bob Roller
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Kinda close to the front, ain't it? No room for the bullet starter which you will acquire later. :P Also, did you measure the distance from your rear to front sight location to be 36" so all your sight corrections will be minute of angle to match the sight graduations on your tang sight?
Those front adjustable sights are a PITA. One of my rifles has one and it moves opposite the rear windage adjustment. It's hard to remember which way you're moving the bullet strike. May want to engrave/stamp an L or R on the appropriate side so you can remember.
Lastly, as far as the bubble is concerned, I can't even see mine, let alone center it for each shot.
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Curtis
TOF is spot on. I use a muzzle protector for my rifles. The Rigby has the original one that is serial numbered with the rifle. My Alex Henry replicas have one that was modeled after a Rigby. IMO you need to be anal about protecting the muzzle when you are shooting long range.
Also agree with him on the 36" for MOA adjustments. Assuming that your sights are set up for MOA.
The front sight with windage is a PIA. However, if you are wanting it to look as appropriate as possible, that is what you will use.
I think the front windage cost me points in matches. I can not make as fine of adjustments with the front as I can with the windage on the rear. Also when you are in the prone position and ready to shoot, forget about getting back up to look at the darn thing and make an adjustment. Windage on the rear allows you to make changes without getting up.
For my replicas I do not have windage on the front, but on the Rigby I do.
I have taped inside my shooting box, on the lid a picture of my front sights and an arrow for which way to turn the screw to get the bullet to move either left or right. Seems simplistic to remember, but I can and do make mistakes and I like to win.
Also important is that you hold the rifle the same way each time when you adjust the front sights, turn it 90 degrees, now you are cranking the sights the wrong way.
Regarding seeing the bubble level I aint that old yet. I can still see them.
I dont need glasses to see distance, but need them for seeing up close. Brent D. has me playing with a couple of pairs of safety glasses that have magnification over the whole lenses. Currently playing with .5 and .75. They both allow me to see the sights better and still see the distant target. Not sure about 1,000 yards yet. I would still put the stick on bifocals on the bottom of the lenses for up close reading of the sights etc.
Fleener
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Kinda close to the front, ain't it? No room for the bullet starter which you will acquire later. :P Also, did you measure the distance from your rear to front sight location to be 36" so all your sight corrections will be minute of angle to match the sight graduations on your tang sight?
Those front adjustable sights are a PITA. One of my rifles has one and it moves opposite the rear windage adjustment. It's hard to remember which way you're moving the bullet strike. May want to engrave/stamp an L or R on the appropriate side so you can remember.
Lastly, as far as the bubble is concerned, I can't even see mine, let alone center it for each shot.
Curtis
TOF is spot on. I use a muzzle protector for my rifles. The Rigby has the original one that is serial numbered with the rifle. My Alex Henry replicas have one that was modeled after a Rigby. IMO you need to be anal about protecting the muzzle when you are shooting long range.
Also agree with him on the 36" for MOA adjustments. Assuming that your sights are set up for MOA....
Fleener
TOF and Snapper, where are you guys when I am alone in the shop and get a wild hair to do things like put sights on a gun? I set the front sight location based on the drawing, didn't think about the muzzle protector or even have a clue about 36" spacing affecting MOA adjustments. Too many questions that I don't even know to ask on this style of gun. I just went out to the shop and put a tape measure to it, looks like approx 37.5 inches between the sights. I plan on using a muzzle protector but didn't think about allowing enough space for it. Moving the front sight and plugging the dovetail and make it look good will be a PITA but I will have to consider it.
I chose the sights I have because they emulate the original AH sights, and I believe the adjustments are MOA. I am not used to an adjustable front sight yet so I will have to learn whatever system I use on the rifle. The rear sight has no provision for windage. Guess I have some thinking to do.... ::)
Curtis
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We should of thought about saying something, but did not think about it until too late.
Sorry.
Fleener
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A bore protector can still be fitted and the base of the sight will be a great guide
for it if care in fitting is taken and I think it will be**.I had no bore/muzzle protector
for my original Henry/Whitworth and had no problems at all in the 11 years I owned
and shot it-----a lot.The Henry barrel on my rifle had about 8" of feelable choke when
being loaded and when it went off,it sounded like a high velocity modern gun.
Bill Large always liked to hear it when I was using his range and the first time he heard
it he asked if I had my Model 95 with me. I told him it was my Whitworth.
Bob Roller
**Be sure a pin is installed that can block the view thru the front sight if you decide to make
this adaptation.
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Sights are always the last thing to be fitted. I always cut off the sight casting and welded up the hole. Never used the original. High quality, aftermarket sights are mounted at different locations on the tang depending on the sight base required. Once installed, then the front sight distance is measured for its location.
You remember my sight dovetail debacle where a non-firearms machinist started cutting the dovetail on the side of the barrel before I caught it. I was able to tap fit a piece of keystock into the slot. Then I tinned it and tapped it in, and heated it until the solder flowed. After clean-up, it's not noticeable.
Lastly, the sight blocking pin is not required since the bullet starter is one piece, not two like a false muzzle.
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I have never seen a 2 piece false muzzle and the one piece ones HAVE or did have a blinder
pin to prevent a 10 X of very large size.I once prevented a man from blowing the guide starter
off of his Don Brown Henry copy in a match in Kentucky. He was using it against BPCR guns and
was really loading too fast and the guide starter had no blinder. Not a good idea but he was trying
and got a few hits for his efforts.
Bob Roller
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I dont think its the end of the world Curtis re the front sight location. You could make a small lug at 6oc and make a twist on protector like on Gibbs longrange guns. They dont take up much room.
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I dont need glasses to see distance, but need them for seeing up close. Brent D. has me playing with a couple of pairs of safety glasses that have magnification over the whole lenses. Currently playing with .5 and .75. They both allow me to see the sights better and still see the distant target. Not sure about 1,000 yards yet. I would still put the stick on bifocals on the bottom of the lenses for up close reading of the sights etc.
Fleener
I also have reader/computer glasses, but in .25, .50 and .75 diopter. The .50's are pretty good, but the .75's are best for shooting to 100 meters. I doubt very much that I could see the buffalo at 1,000 metres with them on. It is not easy to see with my normal glasses, that give me 20/15 eyesight, as it is only chest deep at 4' and 8' long.
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You are confused about what we are talking about. This protects the muzzle while the bullet is inserted in it and rammed home. It is not indexed in any manner. There is no extra time during the relay to fool around lining up a post over your front sight. This is a picture of Snapper's original Rigby one.
(https://i.ibb.co/KzWWvSH/Rigby13.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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I'm thinking I may shoot the rifle in the white before moving the front sight. I will discuss your dovetail plugging method with you at more length Dave. I remember you talking about the bad front sight cut, you hadn't plugged it yet at the time. Shooting in the white will give me options to change the entire sight arrangement. Have you blued that soldered plug int the barrel yet? I think I could peen a plug without it showing sans soldering....
Curtis
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Filling your dovetail will be more complex than mine. The machinist had cut a 1/4" slot before running the dovetail cutter thru and that's when I caught his error. This simplified filling as I just got a piece of keystock and filed it for a force fit. The solder wasn't much more than the thickness of the tinning. Haven't done any barrel finish to it yet.
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You are confused about what we are talking about. This protects the muzzle while the bullet is inserted in it and rammed home. It is not indexed in any manner. There is no extra time during the relay to fool around lining up a post over your front sight. This is a picture of Snapper's original Rigby one.
(https://i.ibb.co/KzWWvSH/Rigby13.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I wonder how many of these muzzle protectors were blown down range back in the "day"? ;D
On the long range rifle I built with a GM barrel I used one that could be located the same
way every time by using a pin on the barrel and I did put a post on it to block the front sight.
I also made my own rear sight and used the "ears" that were on the breech that I got from
Don Brown. I still have one of those I used for a gauge when I make that style of lock.
I also used one of Don's precarved stalking rifle stocks so I could take advantage of the good
looking trigger guard used with it. Rod England told me he offered that stock as well as the
pistol grip style and I am temped to get one and his breeched barrels and cobble up
one of these rifles.Maybe we should all drink a toast to old Sir Joseph Whitworth for his bringing
such rifles
in to use. They also made wandering around out in the open a dangerous idea during
a war like our own Uncivil War in the 19th century. >:(
Bob Roller
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I wonder how many of these muzzle protectors were blown down range back in the "day"? ;D ....
Bob Roller
I couldn't help but notice Snapper tied a string around the narrow waist on his bore protector and the other end of the string tied to his shooting box on the bench. Made it difficult to walk away and forget to remove the bore protector from the barrel. ;)
Curtis
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The precarved stock is made a bit oversized for obvious reasons, and a fair amount of wood needs removed. There are at least a couple of ways to approach this task, one is to start removing wood until it looks and scales correct. Another, which I used here is to set the known dimensions in profile and width like I would do on a gun built from a slab, then geometrically remove wood approaching the final dimension. Here I have set the width of the wrist:
(https://i.ibb.co/YZ0c3Xk/P9202020.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PQDcNMh)
(https://i.ibb.co/5TkM1QB/P9202021.jpg) (https://ibb.co/H7CFKcn)
Then I brought the side panel opposite of the lock down to near final level and proper angle. A horse rasp, though rough, will cut fairly smooth if you rasp with the grain:
(https://i.ibb.co/6sv46Zf/P9202022.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x5mMVsR)
(https://i.ibb.co/nkkPQQT/P9202023.jpg) (https://ibb.co/888YPPJ)
Next I bring the comb down to near the proper level an check it with a straight edge. If you mark on the straight edge with a Sharpie it will transfer marks to the high spots:
(https://i.ibb.co/vvNR90m/P9202031.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n8Xtpxf)
(https://i.ibb.co/RCwP1xd/P9202033.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vJnmb7R)
(https://i.ibb.co/2McF5zB/P9272062.jpg) (https://ibb.co/94ypGxj)
The buttstock was brought down to the dimensions of the butt plate:
(https://i.ibb.co/hsd4xSQ/P9202026.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZdgFR04)
(https://i.ibb.co/51W2Nrc/P9202029.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cycxG6T)
(https://i.ibb.co/HFRZTsX/P9272059.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5MCZhy2)
(https://i.ibb.co/m8W0WT2/P9272061.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTS9Sp8)
I used a modified caliper to help with setting the wrist dimensions and curve:
(https://i.ibb.co/D78LFS7/P9282064.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fCnQWPC)
Then continued to remove some wood and started to define the lock panels. I used some clear film to trace the lock side and transfer dimensions to the off side:
(https://i.ibb.co/0XMRqq5/P9282065.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7zWdvvh)
(https://i.ibb.co/bRt0DN0/P9282067.jpg) (https://ibb.co/prq7547)
(https://i.ibb.co/HD0Wj9v/P9282068.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pvgtSkD)
(https://i.ibb.co/KKQSTnJ/P9282069.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cYpV4qj)
It will probably be a while before I get back in the shop, will post more then!
Curtis
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I always figured that I was smart enough to remove my bore protector before I shot the rifle. At one of the World matches, I thought I had shot it down range. Only to find that it had fallen off as I got down with the rifle and it was lying near my shooting pad. After that I have always tied the projector with a leather lace to my shooting box.
One time I got to help the Brits look for one that had been forgotten and was shot down range. Only went 25 yards or so.
Fleener
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Been traveling with my wife for a few weeks, went out east and saw a lot of historic sights, had a great time.
So trying to take up where I left off... I removed the barrel some more shaping of the forestock, bringing the "belly" down to near finished dimension, rounded it off and did some file work to level out and straighten the sides.
(https://i.ibb.co/k1R4H3m/PA212108.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BNXyz4n)
(https://i.ibb.co/vYPN58J/PA212109.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FVwQvtB)
(https://i.ibb.co/qCjx9d3/PA212110.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pQwnZxB)
Next I started to work on the comb and butt stock area, drawing some reference lines first and rasping away some wood.
(https://i.ibb.co/BsNGMrg/PA212112.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6sB8C14)
(https://i.ibb.co/qBTDPsw/PA222113.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MnFg3VL)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZxwH1KB/PA222114.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QMq8jnP)
I used a straight edge marked with a Sharpie to spot the high points and flattened out the sides of the butt some more to straighten them up:
(https://i.ibb.co/BzCLLZ1/PA222115.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zn4ssRk)
(https://i.ibb.co/6YN5Frt/PA222116.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tcr5tY0)
Next I used a spokeshave to bring the pistol grip down closer to finish size. A SHARP blade set extremely fine makes a nice, smooth curved cut.
(https://i.ibb.co/N1P2VKF/PA222117.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FsM4xzh)
(https://i.ibb.co/xGbq3f0/PA222119.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vmW4DQG)
(https://i.ibb.co/MVGnKkC/PA222121.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yyY0KFQ)
Curtis
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You've really got me thinking about ordering one of these kits now. I have been wanting a long range bullet gun for a while
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Justin
Pull the trigger and join us!
Fleener
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Justin, I will join the group also - next year! I have a few in the pipeline that need to be completed first. And this old "Lancaster" is really trying my patience!
When I get that done I have a Don Stith kit to build.
But - a long range bullet gun is what I started shooting about 63 years ago and I would like to turn my clock back a bit.
Curtis, your work is phenomenal, and serves as an inspiration to many of us. Thanks!
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Justin
Pull the trigger and join us!
Fleener
I have been speaking with Rod via email. He will sell me a breech and tang, or breech tang and barrel together. I'm probably going to go this route, and cut a stock from a blank, and collect the rest of the parts. I have a set of mid range sights from Pedersoli, trigger and trigger guard, buttplate, grip cap, and a few other parts in the shop.
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Been busy with other projects, finally got around to doing more work on the AH rifle.
I decided to go head and plug my front sight dovetail and move the sight back to give me a 36" sight radius and allow for a muzzle protector to fit over the muzzle. I cut a piece of scrap steel about the size of the dovetail, filed it with a three cornered file to fit the dovetail in the barrel, then drove it in.
(https://i.ibb.co/YPxCbRx/PB262173.jpg) (https://ibb.co/34n3krn)
Next I went after it with a file and got rid of most of the extra metal, leaving enough to allow for some peen work.
(https://i.ibb.co/Ldv7TZ3/PB262175.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nMRJXLF)
(https://i.ibb.co/Jc8fFpW/PB262177.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MgKY51y)
Then went to town peening the metal to fill all gaps fully. Repeated gentle tapping works best for me. I used punches and the ball peen to work the steel.
(https://i.ibb.co/9N3nyJ8/PB262179.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qfj9YZb)
(https://i.ibb.co/31L9Qw1/PB262181.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tBWTFSB)
(https://i.ibb.co/V2Q4dTk/PB262182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nznJTjK)
When it appeared all gaps were filled I filed more excess metal away and peened any areas that looked like they could use it as they showed up.
(https://i.ibb.co/vhNFsg3/PB282184.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1MCgshr)
When all looked good I filed it the rest of the way down and hit the area with some emery cloth. Not bad!
(https://i.ibb.co/ftfPTkr/PB282185.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RPfVJ3Q)
(https://i.ibb.co/QMcfbZ0/PB282186.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VTNtjd6)
Last I cut a new dovetail and temporarily installed the sight in it to check for fit.
(https://i.ibb.co/b3Kc74L/PB302187.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fSxjQ3t)
Thanks for looking,
Curtis
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good job on the fix. You can't even see it. How do you make sure the sight is right on, so it isn't off at long range? Also, question about the front sight. It looks like it is adjustable for windage and elevation? What is the purpose of that? Isn't the rear sight fully adjustable?
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good job on the fix. You can't even see it. How do you make sure the sight is right on, so it isn't off at long range? Also, question about the front sight. It looks like it is adjustable for windage and elevation? What is the purpose of that? Isn't the rear sight fully adjustable?
On all the Long Range English guns I have seen,only the front sight is adjustable.
Also never saw a spirit level on a old one either.On the other side,there is a lot I
have never seen.
Bob Roller
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Front sight is adjustable for windage. Windage on the front was more common then windage on the rear for that era rifle. Windage on the rear is much easier then the front. Once you lay down it is not easy making a windage change. I prefer it on the rear
Fleener
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For mounting the rear sight I use brass sheet for shims to square up the base. I have used small levels. The last base I mounted I took a digital gage made for making sure your saw blade is square. The down side is that it is so accurate it takes a while. Simple mounted it on the staff
Fleener
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good job on the fix. You can't even see it. How do you make sure the sight is right on, so it isn't off at long range? ....
Thanks Justin, I felt the fix went well as it really did disappear. As far as making the sight right on, I have always just eyeballed the sight alignment, but I may make some use of Snapper's idea with the digital gage. I used a pair of "winding sticks" to help cut the dovetail level with the breech.
Bob and Fleener answered your questions about the sights better than I could. ;)
Curtis
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Made some progress in shaping the stock and inlet the barrel key escutcheons.
(https://i.ibb.co/dGmFqpv/PB022144.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nzP9v1y)
(https://i.ibb.co/B607KjX/PA312138.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t2VNPc7)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZXt5Sy2/PA312140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F3N2XGH)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xs4kxw8/PA312141.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zR5HVkJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/0CqvRtH/PA312142.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Pcx0vQq)
(https://i.ibb.co/NSCWGXN/PB012143.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JQtrSNp)
(https://i.ibb.co/wr5gf1c/PB252164.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dJ8MRym)
(https://i.ibb.co/6mv2Q8w/PB252167.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xDmyZYL)
Still have some refinement to do, but have the lock panels and pistol grip mostly shaped. I used some home made round floats for part of the shaping, they cut smoother than a file or rasp.
(https://i.ibb.co/p497nYh/PA302132.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8PSCX1Y)
(https://i.ibb.co/0sb34cQ/PA302133.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hh8QwVX)
(https://i.ibb.co/3YnwmQq/PA302135.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Jk20Lx)
(https://i.ibb.co/6scnx4R/PB072147.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qm7bR6F)
(https://i.ibb.co/nbsHKkH/PB072150.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s2v0X30)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ss4G4h1/PB252157.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Vjc5c7h)
(https://i.ibb.co/gMFr4xC/PB252159.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XZkWYqT)
(https://i.ibb.co/3cYNmcx/PB252163.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2dYt3dz)
(https://i.ibb.co/Dz3fXc1/PB252168.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MZqkTwg)
(https://i.ibb.co/yRHqq3X/PB252170.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wL544vR)
Curtis
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Looking mighty fine. I like that Schnabel forearm idea. No casting or horn needed.
Bob Roller
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I agree, that is a lovely schnabble. Even nicer, is one that has slips of horn inlet in the front surface around the curve
one on each side of centre.
Saw that somewhere on a rifle, not sure where - was quite special.
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Glad you guys like the Schnabel. TOF has done a couple that way and I think it looks good on the target model as it has no rib or ramrod to balance a sculpted horn or ebony forend tip.
Daryl, if you find a photo of the rifle with the horn inlet on the Schnabel I would like to see it!
Curtis
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That fix on the misplaced dovetail is the best I've ever seen.Your skill in doing ths to me is impressive.
Simple but very effective.This whole thread is one of the best in a very long time.Like those of the guys
in Norway,they are not hard to follow and I have learned a lot from theirs and this one.I have never been
a gun maker of any style of rifle but did make one of these in the stalking rifle style*.I started it in June of
2001 and tested it in September of 2003.Ues a GM barrel,Don Brown breech and a folding tang sight of my
own make.The front sight was a Lyman 17A,modified to use a level and Lee Shaver inserts.Lubed bullet.
the old Ideal 451112 at 485 grains and 75 grains of old DuPont or GOEX.I shot it against breech loaders
at 500 meters and beat them.
Please keep us in the loop on this fine project.
Bob Roller
*I used Don's precarved stock and my own 4 screw lock with Henry hammer and it looked good even if
I did do it.
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Glad you guys like the Schnabel. TOF has done a couple that way
That particular feature is period correct for the original AH rifle which provided the patterns for it.
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To make your float, did you just use a steel bar, heat it up and cut notches with a chisel, then harden and temper?
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To make your float, did you just use a steel bar, heat it up and cut notches with a chisel, then harden and temper?
I used oil hardening drill rod, here is a link that describes the whole process in detail. https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=51579.0 (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=51579.0)
Curtis
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That particular feature is period correct for the original AH rifle which provided the patterns for it.
TOF, thanks for the info - good to know as it is difficult to find pics of early full target rifles without a ramrod.
Curtis
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thanks. Looks handy
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That fix on the misplaced dovetail is the best I've ever seen.Your skill in doing ths to me is impressive.
Simple but very effective.This whole thread is one of the best in a very long time.....
Bob Roller
Thanks for the kind words Bob!!!
Curtis
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To make your float, did you just use a steel bar, heat it up and cut notches with a chisel, then harden and temper?
I have made these "floats" by using threaded rod of whatever diameter is
needed and then case harden it.It works,really ;D
Bob Roller
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Great idea Bob, I will have to give it a try!
Curtis
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Have you finished the rifle, and gotten it out shooting yet?
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Justin,
Good to hear from you, and I don't have the rifle finished yet! I recently returned from a six week stay in Florida, and have been working mostly on other projects and honey-do's since I got home. Made a little progress this week on the Alex Henry and hopefully will be posting some on the build in the next week or two. ;)
Curtis
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Lazy bugger.
I have not spent 5 hours in my shop I dont think since I retired from my first job in May.
Fleener
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Haha I get that. I've been slow at building lately. Working on a PA pistol lately. I got the price list from Rod, and I'm considering my options. I plan on building some kind of long range .45 bullet gun before next July (our big BC rendezvous has a long range steel match in August) and I'm making plans on attending the 150th Creedmoor match in 2024. I have 4 years to get a gun built, and get lots of practice
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Justin
Have you been added to Rick Webers email group of for the Oak Ridge matches?
If not shoot me your email address and I will forward to Rick.
Fleener
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Lazy bugger.
I have not spent 5 hours in my shop I dont think since I retired from my first job in May.
Fleener
Your got me pegged! Lazy is me!! I do get to spend time in my shop when I am home but unfortunately a good part of it has been working on lawn mowers, chainsaws and a 1965 Mustang. Well I keep looking at the Mustang and thinking about working on it :o
Also doing some restoration work for a client....
;D
Curtis
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what do the muzzle protectors look like, and where do you find them?
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(https://i.ibb.co/hf94S4p/muzzle-protectors.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9tg171R)
Justin
The one on the right is from my original Rigby LRML. It is serial numbered to the rifle. The serial number is under the leather thong.
The protector goes over the end of the muzzle, protects the crown from any damage that could be done by the loading or cleaning process.
The one on the left is one that a machinist buddy made for a rifle that I no long have and it is what I use for my contemporary Alex Henry rifles.
I tie the leather strap to my shooting box. Keeps you from shooting the muzzle protector down range.
At one of the World matches, someone from other then the USA shot the rifle with a protector on it. It was found 20 yards or so in front of the rifle.
I almost did the same thing at a match, now I tie it off so that I cant.
Fleener
Fleener
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I'm guessing that they are bored smooth through the centre slightly larger than bore size, and a little larger than the outside diameter of the barrel to slip over the muzzle? Is the top of the protector crowned?
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They are smooth. The Rigby measure .451 and replica .452 dia for the bullet. The other end is cut to go over the barrel.
The Rigby barrel has been milled down to take a smaller dia bore protector.
They are not indexed, so you can put them on in any orientation.
There is a slight radius on the crown.
Fleener
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what do the muzzle protectors look like, and where do you find them?
Justin, I made one from a brass gas fitting to get me by until I can find someone to make one like Snapper's. I will try to remember to post a photo soon.
Curtis
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Whenever I get some new parts for my lathe I can make one. Seems pretty straightforward. Are you putting a sling on your rifle? If so, how do you plan to mount the forward swivel?
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I will try to post some pictures of my sling setup. I have no permanent attachments on my rifle. Also, my setup allows the rifle to be pulled from the side, not the bottom, as if you have a stud or other attachments on the bottom of the rifle.
IMO bottom attachments when you are in the sling will want to pull the rifles bottom upward. By coming off the side, my rifle is pulling sideways and not trying to cant.
Fleener
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Fleener,
Do you have any "end views" photos of the muzzle protectors? As a machinist, inquiring minds want to know.
Thanks, David
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For some reason I cant post any pictures right now. Will try latter.
Fleener
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Snapper was having issues posting pics earlier, so he sent me the photos and I am posting them below. If you have questions about the photos you will have to as Snapper, I'm sure he will be glad to give details when he can.
(https://i.ibb.co/fXv6myx/IMG-1444.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RgyrLsD)
(https://i.ibb.co/cxPGXGX/IMG-1445.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qxztFtF)
(https://i.ibb.co/GHWr2CG/IMG-1446.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XY7GsF6)
(https://i.ibb.co/b7b7BsN/IMG-1447.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vDXDP3L)
(https://i.ibb.co/DDvTQbY/IMG-1448.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kgwvXyJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/YhNt7J6/IMG-1449.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yqN8nKD)
(https://i.ibb.co/0GtVcFH/IMG-1450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3CzY7Mg)
(https://i.ibb.co/LCwyQsJ/IMG-1451.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9qX0wdV)
(https://i.ibb.co/Jd1Zxnw/IMG-1452.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7zfhgvd)
(https://i.ibb.co/qpS691C/IMG-1453.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KWPn7yD)
(https://i.ibb.co/xz3N7Z0/IMG-1454.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mhS3cpw)
(https://i.ibb.co/KsxGrKb/IMG-1455.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ykFRQ4d)
(https://i.ibb.co/KyRmQZ8/IMG-1456.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NYQ7khG)
(https://i.ibb.co/3vDGz3Q/IMG-1457.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w793skj)
(https://i.ibb.co/5rn8w0W/IMG-1458.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K2LqSPj)
Curtis
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Whenever I get some new parts for my lathe I can make one. Seems pretty straightforward. Are you putting a sling on your rifle? If so, how do you plan to mount the forward swivel?
Justin, whenever you get your lathe up and running again I would be interested in working a deal with you to make one for me! I haven't thought about putting a sling on the gun yet, but I see Snapper sent some photos of his sling setup.
Here are the photos of the temporary muzzle protector I made from a brass fitting. I used an old wood paddle bit chucked in my drill press to ream out the threads in the fitting and deepen the hole a bit. Then I drilled a bore sized hole in the end and sanded the inside of the device to smooth it up some and adjust the fit.
(https://i.ibb.co/xhK4HBF/P3082387.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mJrx82N)
(https://i.ibb.co/sWpZct0/P3082389.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NTgMf78)
(https://i.ibb.co/4WyKZt0/P3082390.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y29P7QV)
Curtis
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I made a spring for the rear sight, and filed a notch in the bottom of the sight to hold it perpendicular to the bore. I will add photos of the spring next time I have the tang out of the rifle. I have a tap on order for installation of the sight screw, I used a cut off nail as a temporary pin. The spring fits under the tang.
(https://i.ibb.co/Yp7fbkW/P2262363.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2g7c5t6)
(https://i.ibb.co/rv4Q9nb/P2262366.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mS6RpQv)
(https://i.ibb.co/tMtt7BG/P2262369.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hRjjPs6)
Curtis
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I did the final scraping and sanding of the stock, then began applying finish. The wood is a little soft so I used Permalyn Sealer, ad it soaks deep into the wood and leave it hard and impervious to moisture. For a nice traditional reddish tone I added a few drops of LMF Maple stain and a few drops of LMF cherry stain to the sealer. (Back in the day many English gunsmiths used oil infused with Alkanet root) I slop it on with a brush and keep adding it as it soaks in. After about 10-15 minutes I wipe it off with a lint free cloth. The next day I applied a second coat using the same technique.
(https://i.ibb.co/v3K3MMc/P3022370.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x1R1rr2)
(https://i.ibb.co/zfPFW09/P3022372.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mzh0rMZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ytc2VXS/P3022374.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P5cxVMy)
Twenty four hours later I applied more finish plus stain to a quadrant of the stock, and wet sanded using 320 grit wet and dry paper to fill the grain and sand away any scratches missed in the final sanding. The next day I repeated the process, and the following day I repeated the process using 600 grit paper.
(https://i.ibb.co/kG3HQYC/P3042377.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RghvzLw)
(https://i.ibb.co/3yTfXy9/P3052381.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SX6QTX4)
(https://i.ibb.co/zS40bDH/P3072382.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZhMkK71)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZMR7n1q/P3072383.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Nygb8nc)
I have used Permalyn Sealer for the final coats of finish in the past, but it can make for a shinier finish than I prefer. It can be rubbed back with rottenstone to dull it a bit, or I have also went over the top of it with a hand rubbed coat of flat tung oil finish. For this rifle I am trying something new. I purchased some Antique Oil Finish, poured some in a dish, added a few drops of stain and applied it liberally to the gun.
(https://i.ibb.co/zGG27vj/P3072384.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XSS53RN)
I think it will work out nicely, I will post some pics after it dries.
Curtis
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your rifle is looking great! I've never sanded past 320 grit on a stock before. I should have my lathe up and running again within a month, and I could make one for you. It's about 80 years old, so finding parts has been tricky.
I have this sight at home, and was planning on using it on my rifle.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/883/3/RS-DP-SOULE-3
I wonder if it would work with the sight base on the tang?
My other thought was to cut off the sight base on the tang, weld up the hole, and drill and tap the tang to mount the base.
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I have a few question for you Curtis.
Have you weighed your rifle?
I saw in rules for international competition, the long range rifles have to be under 13lbs.
Does it fall under that weight?
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That rifle is looking good. In years now gone,I have made several of these tang sights and the
last one was in 2003.
Bob Roller
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Justin. That is the sight I use on my Sharps.
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It obviously works well for you Daryl. You always beat Taylor. haha
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Once (last year) isn't always, Justin. But he really did shoot well.
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Thanks guys!
Justin, I typically prefer to scrape wood as opposed to sanding, but some woods respond better to one or the other. I typically never sand raw wood more than 320 grit either. Walnut species can benefit from filling the grain, and one way to do that is to wet sand the stock using finish as the lubricant. This creates a pasty slurry that can fill the grain. The smoother you want the finish to be, finer grits are used. 600 grit is probably as fine as I would go however it boils down to a matter of choice and opinion.
As far as the sight goes, I will measure between the ears on my tang and get back to you with that info. Of course the space between the ears can be widened, or the sight bottom could be made narrower to fit. The stop notch on the sight bottom may need to be modified so that it stays in position perpendicular to the bore. When I post the photos of my sight spring and the sight bottom the previous statement will make more sense.
Curtis
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Once (last year) isn't always, Justin. But he really did shoot well.
Maybe I was talking to the wrong brother for advice about long range shooting. I don't think Daryl will let you forget that he beat you last year.
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Thanks for measuring that for me Curtis. If my sight base is too narrow I could make washers for each side. Could you measure the mounting holes in the sight mount too? Thank you
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Justin, the holes in the sight mount ears came with small holes drilled in them for locating purposes, I never measured what they were originally. They were small enough to allow drilling and reaming them out to whatever size you need. The pivot screw that came with my sight has an 8x36 threaded end and a lightly larger body. Hope that helps.
The distance between the sight ears is around .213-.215, depending on how true I was holding the calipers.
(https://i.ibb.co/52bF8XN/P3092394.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8X1c5nW)
You asked what the rifle weighs, I forgot to respond to that question earlier. I haven't weighed it yet but will try and remember to do that and post the results. I am certain it will fall under the 13 pound weight limit set for the international matches. I think there are a lot of Alex Henry match rifles shot at those matches. Perhaps Snapper can jump in here and shed some light on the subject when he sees this, he has shot (and won!) internationally.
Here are some photos of the bottom of my rear sight and the spring as seen from above the tang... It was originally flat on the bottom and I filed it to the shape shown. The Soule sight you have likely has a round bottom on it, that would work fine if the spring stop notch is in the proper location.
(https://i.ibb.co/2SgRQmC/P3092395.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ScRH8WM)
(https://i.ibb.co/D8ySX33/P3092396.jpg) (https://ibb.co/61xfh66)
(https://i.ibb.co/C5SxQP8/P3092398.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N6GwKTC)
(https://i.ibb.co/0tY8VRL/P3092399.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rs5TfRh)
Curtis
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This is what I ended up with after applying a coat of Antique Oil finish with the stain added to it:
(https://i.ibb.co/SvJFcgC/P3092391.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VB3fxG4)
(https://i.ibb.co/51SSMjm/P3092392.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6CCWvT)
(https://i.ibb.co/w7ChnbM/P3092393.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZSKzQwW)
I think I will like it! Still deciding if I want to add another coat or not.
I forgot to mention I applied the finish whith all the furniture, lock etc. in place because in the past I have had finish build up enough in the mortices and inlets that I had to scrape the edges for several hours to get the parts to fit back in their respective places. I will apply a thing coat of sealer inside the mortices later to help protect against moisture absorption.
Curtis
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Thanks for the pics Curtis. The stock looks great! So, my sight is .250 thick. It looks like there is plenty of steel on your tang to file it wide enough. The base looks like this. It may need some alteration.
(https://i.ibb.co/Pt0hgK9/20200310-135017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1bjqT1d)
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Curtis
really like the rifle I think you are doing a very professional job looking forward to seeing your shooting updates
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Thanks Stan and Justin! Stan, I am looking forward to finally shoot this thing one of these days, hope it groups as good as I think it will.
Justin, there should be plenty of metal in the tang to allow for a .250 width. The detents on the sight bottom could still possibly work out okay, depending on how you designed the sight spring where it comes up between the tang ears.
Curtis
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When I made my long range rifle I made my own rear sight and made a stop spring that was slotted
and had a 4x48 screw that was tightened when it was at right angle to the bore.Muzzle loaders usually
have tang sights that fold forward and the breech loaders fold to the rear to allow for cleaning.I have
made both kinds and one miniature for a T/C belonging to a friend for his grandson.
I used the Lyman 17A with Lee Shaver's inserts for a front sight with a small level which is not traditional
on long range muzzle loaders but I liked it and used it with success at 500 meters.
Bob Roller
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When I made my long range rifle I made my own rear sight and made a stop spring that was slotted
and had a 4x48 screw that was tightened when it was at right angle to the bore...
Bob Roller
Bob, I am very interested in learning more about how that stop spring arrangement was made. It sounds like a great solution for adjusting the setup exactly. Could you share a sketch or a photo of the setup?
Thanks, Curtis
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When I made my long range rifle I made my own rear sight and made a stop spring that was slotted
and had a 4x48 screw that was tightened when it was at right angle to the bore...
Bob Roller
Bob, I am very interested in learning more about how that stop spring arrangement was made. It sounds like a great solution for adjusting the setup exactly. Could you share a sketch or a photo of the setup?
Thanks, Curtis
Curtis and whoever is interested,
It's the same as the one you have shown but the spring is slotted with a 7/64 end mill to
give clearance to a 4x48 screw.Set a little tension or "drag"that can be felt when rotating
the sight to the rear and then stop when it's at true 90 degrees to the bore.Remove the
sight and then the tang and tighten the 4x48 screw to capture the slotted spring.Recheck
after reassembling and it should be OK.
Bob Roller
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I am back home and on line. Curtis, thank for posting those pictures for me.
The sling set up is so that the rifle is not being pulled from the bottom, causing me to have to fight it wanting to cant.
Curtis, I bet your rifle will check in just below 10 lbs. The original matches rifles were limited to 10 lbs. With Pedersoli coming out with their Gibbs years ago the rules were changed I believe to accommodate a heavier rifle.
Fleener
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Curtis, I expected a lovely rifle. Your rifle exceeds that by a long shot. Extremely nicely done and appointed. The finish is superb!
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Hey Curtis.
Have you figured out what bullet you're going to try using in your rifle?
I'm starting to get my ducks in a row, to get parts from Rod, and I'm trying to figure out where to go as far as bullets for the barrel.
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Hey Curtis.
Have you figured out what bullet you're going to try using in your rifle?
I am starting with some 530 grain .442 diameter bullets pure lead bullets I ordered from Buffalo Arms, and I will be paper patching them. I also have a few each of .440, .441 and .443 bullets to try. Whichever diameter works best I will order a mold and cast some with maybe a 20:1 lead tin alloy and try those. https://www.buffaloarms.com/442-diameter-530-grain-swaged-paper-patch-pure-lead-cup-base-bullet-box-of-50-ppb442530 (https://www.buffaloarms.com/442-diameter-530-grain-swaged-paper-patch-pure-lead-cup-base-bullet-box-of-50-ppb442530)
Curtis
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Sounds good Curtis. I look forward to hearing how the range time goes.
It seems like everyone uses 85-100 gr Swiss 2f or 1.5f for their bullet rifles.
Unfortunately here in BC, we can only really find Goex, so I guess I will have to use it for a while, and I might need to stock up on Swiss when I get back across the border some day.
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Not meaning to omit the other work you've done on this rifle, but that wood finish is STUNNING. God Bless, Marc
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I'm thinking a 30:1 or 40:1 mix. will work better, Curtis, and likely with a .0025" thick paper. The the thicker paper might not be as
picky as to exact bullet diameter as an onion skin paper. Just thinking out loud, kinda.
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Hey Curtis. When you get a chance I was wondering if you could tell me the overall length of your stock so I can find an appropriate length piece of wood. Thanks
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I am starting with some 530 grain .442 diameter bullets pure lead bullets I ordered from Buffalo Arms, and I will be paper patching them.
Curtis,
Rod's barrels are a true .451 like the originals, as opposed to Badger and some others which are .450. Once wrapped, your bullets should mike out at .450.
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I size mine to .443 and I use a one in 20 mix for tin. My bullets are longer then most and the harder bullets keep the nose from slumping, or at least that is the assumption..
Fleener
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According to New Roberts, some used soft bases and hard noses in the ML's for shooting 40 rods.
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Hey Curtis. When you get a chance I was wondering if you could tell me the overall length of your stock so I can find an appropriate length piece of wood. Thanks
I'll try to remember and measure it tomorrow and post the length.
Curtis
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Curtis,
Rod's barrels are a true .451 like the originals, as opposed to Badger and some others which are .450. Once wrapped, your bullets should mike out at .450.
I size mine to .443 and I use a one in 20 mix for tin. My bullets are longer then most and the harder bullets keep the nose from slumping, or at least that is the assumption..
Fleener
Dave and Fleener - Thanks for the info. I ordered the .442's since BACO doesn't sell cast .443 PP bullets. Also they sell only pure lead in the cast PP bullets. Equipped with your info I guess I should just go ahead and order a .443 mold - I wasn't certain a wrapped .443 bullet would fit in a fouled and wiped barrel. Regardless I will mike a wrapped .442 and see what it measures tomorrow. Thanks for the info!
Curtis
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Curtis
I can send you some sized bullets to give it a go for fit, just let me know.
I wrap my bullets with dry paper, no lube no water. Then I size them. The sizing helps the paper I think stay with the bullet a little bit.
My procedure for loading is a damp patch then a dry patch after each shot, AFTER I drop powder and before the wad and bullet.
The bullet should slide down the barrel with little effort.
During matches I have had to wet my patches more then normal to get a good clean barrel. It is not good when you push through the paper patch with your bullet. If that happens you just have to shoot it into the berm.
Fleener
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Beautiful rifle Curtis. I love the crisp clean lines and super fit and finish. Nice.
Jim
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Curtis
I can send you some sized bullets to give it a go for fit, just let me know.
I wrap my bullets with dry paper, no lube no water. Then I size them. The sizing helps the paper I think stay with the bullet a little bit.
My procedure for loading is a damp patch then a dry patch after each shot, AFTER I drop powder and before the wad and bullet.
The bullet should slide down the barrel with little effort.
During matches I have had to wet my patches more then normal to get a good clean barrel. It is not good when you push through the paper patch with your bullet. If that happens you just have to shoot it into the berm.
Fleener
Art, I won't say no to that offer! I would like to try some of those bullets before I invest in the mold - I like the bullet design better than the pre-cast ones I purchased. Rod sent me several PP bullets of different sizes, ranging from . 441 to .443 (before patching) and I will shoot all of those as well to see how they do.
I was watching your loading process at Friendship and it looks like the best way to do it. One question though, why do you run the damp and dry patch down the barrel before the wad? Just curious.
Curtis
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Beautiful rifle Curtis. I love the crisp clean lines and super fit and finish. Nice.
Jim
Thanks Jim, that means a lot coming from a talented perfectionist! I hope I am not about to screw it up, I have begun the checkering process and it is very tedious work. 8)
Curtis
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I went through a few designs for the wrist checkering layout, decided on what I liked, drew the outlines on the stock and looked at it a couple of days before I started cutting.
I do not have any training in checkering other than a little reading an watching some videos, so this should not be considered as a tutorial. This will be my second checking job - scary stuff form me! That being said, here are some photos.
(https://i.ibb.co/q9y8FPs/P4152472.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TRvGqF8)
I used some pinstripe tape to help start my primary lines, a tip I got from TOF. I positioned the tape and then used a scribe to mark the lines, then cut them with a 60o cutter.
(https://i.ibb.co/sWdHHkv/P4102464.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QD3ddzF)
(https://i.ibb.co/1QF3zrM/P4102465.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c34PY6w)
(https://i.ibb.co/KWDnvLg/P4102467.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HqCZ8xy)
After getting a couple of starter lines cut, I used double and triple line spacer tools to layout the lines, depending on how they fit the curvature of the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/zN3vz2t/P4122469.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hCGzSdT)
After each line was marked, I chased it with a 60o cutter to deepen and correct minor imperfections.
(https://i.ibb.co/7JjH1DG/P4122470.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JRmNsTz)
(https://i.ibb.co/V2J85Wy/P4142471.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ChmFD5d)
(https://i.ibb.co/hKTfDpL/P4162473.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jLjRg7b)
(https://i.ibb.co/7RGPFBH/P4172476.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fnCf7Zb)
(https://i.ibb.co/w6HdCj5/P4172477.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ThXwRd9)
More in a few days,
Curtis
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Hey Curtis. When you get a chance I was wondering if you could tell me the overall length of your stock so I can find an appropriate length piece of wood. Thanks
Justin,
The finished stock measures at just under 28" long.
Curtis
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Looking good Curtis. Checkering intimidates me. I haven't tried it yet, but eventually. Thanks for the measurement.
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Curtis,
It's good to see you take all the time you need.
I can see that in the results. It's a beauty!
Adrie
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Curtis,
I can't tell exactly from your initial photos but do you plan putting Mullered borders on the checkering pattern? These are seen on virtually every period rifle. Also the diamonds as you are likely aware are not pointed up, rather small flat tops on them....here is where the PIA comes in, getting and keeping them even and alike.
Jim
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Curtis,
I can't tell exactly from your initial photos but do you plan putting Mullered borders on the checkering pattern? These are seen on virtually every period rifle. Also the diamonds as you are likely aware are not pointed up, rather small flat tops on them....here is where the PIA comes in, getting and keeping them even and alike.
Jim
Jim, good to hear from you again! The short answer is yes to both. I still have an email from you where you mentioned that "semi flat top checkering and mullered borders were correct for the AH rifle". I have collected a number of photos of chekering on AH rifles and similar and will be trying my hand at both. And yes, I can see the PIA part coming! :)
Curtis
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Curtis,
I just mentioned these in the other flat top thread. I used these to do both of my rifles.
(https://i.ibb.co/b1P8t7r/Dsc01218.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9nNCPGq)
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Curtis, is that ratio about 1:2.5? Looks very "period".
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Curtis another checkering note.
Close examination of the checkering we are talking about will show that the angle of the lines from the surface is much sharper than conventional tools we have available. No one makes commercial flat top cutters that I am aware of. I have few antique tools that are close to 90 degrees. Conventional tools will be Ok for initial layout but the correct tools are not hard to make if you have a slotting saw.
I don't have a good example here in the shop now but perhaps Art Fleener would take a tooth brush to a protected area of checkering on his Rigby and send you a couple of closeup photos.
Jim
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(https://i.ibb.co/GCM0gL6/rigby-checkering.jpg) (https://ibb.co/frN2m5g)
(https://i.ibb.co/Hr0cn2K/rigby-checking-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dQSNGcf)
Here you go
Fleener
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Curtis'
PM sent
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Adrie - Thanks, I am going S-L-O-W because I'm intimidated by checkering!
TOF - looks like those could be handy, I could make something similar.
Snapper - thanks for the photos.
Craig - probably closer to 1:2.75, however the optics change with the curve of the pistol grip
Jim - thanks for the info and the PM's. I have started cutting with a 90o tool but haven't gone too deep yet, I will look at my options where to go from here.
Curtis
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The style of checking on these guns is something I have found to be fascinating. I have collected a good many pictures and handled quite a few of the rifles, always looking at the subtle variety of the work done.
While the flat bottomed valley is common, it is not always the style. The same can be said for the flat tops of the diamonds, not always. I propose that many of the rifles show flat topped diamonds only because English walnut is very soft, and the rifles have been handled often in the past 150 years. I have seen in photographs, and in person, that on close examination the flat topped diamonds vary based on how the gun was handled. In places where the owner did not handle the rifle, diamonds are quite sharp. Where the handling was often, such as the thumb of the trigger hand, the diamonds are clearly worn. Even when compared to diamonds just a few rows away.
You can see on Snapper's Rigby where the checking is not worn, the facets are quite sharp.
(https://i.ibb.co/WHDxjvR/Rigby-Snapper.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
On this Kerr, the checking is worn everywhere. The rifle was used heavily, though well cared for. The diamonds are soft and rounded all over the rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/mv3YkLn/Kerr2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
This Whitworth shows the difference quite well. The same checking on the bottom, where the support hand would grasp the rifle is worn very flat. The top line of diamonds are as sharp as the day the checker cut them.
(https://i.ibb.co/N33q7QC/Whitworth.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Here is the checking on a Thomas Turner Military target rifle that is coarse, with sharp diamonds, and no flat bottom to the valley.
(https://i.ibb.co/3rrgGkq/Turner.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Last, this beautiful Edge rifle, where you can clearly make out the difference. The circled checking is sharp pointed, a very narrow flat bottom valley, and where the owners thumb rested the points are nearly worn away. I don't think this is a lapse of workmanship simply based on the high quality of the other work on this rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/KbzfVLM/edge.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Overall, I would be hesitant to label all English sporting or target rifles as having one identifiable type of checking. I think the differences in the "Brand", craftsman's tools, and customer preferences, played a large part in how the rifle was checked. The borders can vary as much as the diamonds, though nearly all are bordered. The only exceptions I have seen are the tops of the forearm on military stocked target rifles. Almost all I have pictures of show the checking runs out the top line of the stock. Of course, I could be crazy too.
Oddly, looking through my photos last night I found two different checking styles on Rigby rifles. One was Snapper's, and another I found on an auction site. Both had broken hammers!
I hope this is of help to you Curtis. If your checking is as nice as the rest of your work, the job will be well done.
DAve
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Lots of good info there Dave! And photos too. It has also been my observation that there is a range of variation in that period's checkering, even on guns by the same manufacturer. In true English form, checkering was done by an persons who likely did nothing other than checker, and each individual often had a slightly different style. I have seen some checkering on high quality guns that does not look that good under close examination.
However, there is one caveat that must be taken under consideration, all of these original guns have been around for 150-160 years or more, many have seen a lot of use, and a large number of them have been refinished one or more times and has had the checkering touched up. Some even have been largely or completely re-cut. Fortunately there are still some that have been mostly untouched!
Thanks for the input, Curtis
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After some off-post conversation with Westbj2 I decided to make a few checkering tools to help with achieving a period look of the checkering.
The first tool is an 80o double cut. I started out with a spring steel wire form a source you will never guess... times up! About 10 years ago I burned an early 20th century spring mattress on a brush-pile, and harvested several feet up different size pieces of spring wire, high carbon stuff. After the fire the wire was all nicely annealed. I forged one end to a square-ish head and bent it in a vise:
(https://i.ibb.co/TkMsjTR/P4212483.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JKj96d2)
Next I shaped the head by filing, then cut a slot down the center, then cut teeth with a knife edge file:
(https://i.ibb.co/zXV7rZS/P4212485.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tqpx4Db)
I hardened the head by heating red hot and quenched in kerosene, a trick I learned from George Suiter - the kerosene leave very little slag to clean off. I polished the head and drew it back to a light straw.
(https://i.ibb.co/8rjPkTr/P4222487.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v3JL9g3)
(https://i.ibb.co/cbFfJbL/P4222488.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xmj9hmH)
(https://i.ibb.co/TtY5DCZ/P4222489.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nj6SqWT)
(https://i.ibb.co/jRQqN2k/P4222490.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ySZK91F)
(https://i.ibb.co/zZsTQnT/P4222491.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vk16Vw6)
Put a handle on it and it was ready to use.
(https://i.ibb.co/8PypZm0/P4222493.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GCZLSd0)
Forgot to mention - I first made an 80 degree template from a scrap of German silver to use as a guide.
(https://i.ibb.co/4N8VtYy/P4232495.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QmPKQCB)
The next tool was a single cut 80o tool, made from some W1 tool steel I got from TOF for another project. I filed the head area to 80o and bent it using a vice and finger pressure. Then I cut teeth and heat treated the tool.
(https://i.ibb.co/h8RXzbn/P4232494.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ggMvKNX)
(https://i.ibb.co/kSv6HSh/P4232496.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MCQ52CR)
(https://i.ibb.co/nf5kjbQ/P4232498.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q9P1pdm)
Last, I made a high-quality handle for the tool. 8)
(https://i.ibb.co/nj9PZb5/P4232499.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WfZVq6Y)
Then I got the bright idea to put a hard maple handle on the tool for the added mass, and managed to break the cutter by careless pressure in a vice when I was pounding the new handle on it! >:(
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade! So I made a new 80o tool, then annealed the broken one, re-bent the shape and made a small tool for getting into hard places, and back cutting next to borders. I put the corn cob back on that one....
(https://i.ibb.co/xHmp2Xq/P4232500.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fv8hXqd)
More to come later...
Curtis
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Curtis,that is really fine work and a very informative thread! Have you slugged the barrel yet? If so, could you post the dimensions? I have a number of slick bullets when patched come out to .450 I could send your way. They are 520 gn ellipticals. I know you can patch up to make a larger dia bullet but I do not like going over .002” on paper thickness.
Cheers Richard
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Curtis, you are doing great, and re-cutting someone else's lines is a good way to learn. Variations in wood, finger pressure, tilt one way or the other - all play a part of a successful design.
When I started checkering about 11 years ago, I checkered almost anything I could get my hands on. Had a maple walking stick that I made in 1979. Super hard, seen a lot of miles. But it now has a checkered grip! Checkered a broom handle. Cut blocks of walnut and myrtle, checkered designs on them. Had a couple busted stocks laying around - one of them had checkering all over the surface!
So, keep at it. I am no Picasso with a checkering tool, but I have learned to avoid a lot of mistakes, and how to cover when I fail to avoid them. Just ordered some new cutters, so maybe one or more of my longrifles will end up being checkered.
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Thanks for the encouraging words, guys! So far checkering has been nerve-wracking enough that I can't imagine doing it just for the fun of it, but who knows, maybe by the time I finish the checkering on this gun it will come easier to me. 8)
Richard, the bore is .451 so the .450 PP'd bullets should fit perfectly. Snapper is sending me a few of his PP bullets to try, so unless they don't work out there is no need to send me any. I appreciate the offer and will let you know if anything changes. ;)
Curtis
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Here is the second 80 degree single cut tool, I didn't break this one putting the handle on.
(https://i.ibb.co/7WgpNch/P4242501.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YkDdT9g)
The next and last tool (I think) for the project is a mullering tool for creating mullered borders. I started with another section of bedspring wire, forged and filed the head into and oval-ish shape, cold bent it and cut slots with a jeweler's saw.
(https://i.ibb.co/C6h3DcK/P4252503.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1M8tjgG)
The next step I did was cut the slots larger with a knife edge file, then used a three cornered file to shape the teeth.
(https://i.ibb.co/sth6sLV/P4252504.jpg) (https://ibb.co/52dnsqR)
(https://i.ibb.co/2jykjbj/P4252505.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7GX1G9G)
(https://i.ibb.co/rQJTZMF/P4252506.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0n38fZm)
I hardened and heat treated it to straw, then touched up the teeth with a diamond tool and tested it on my practice block.
(https://i.ibb.co/CswjJK7/P4252508.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G3dZsQ2)
(https://i.ibb.co/c2Yf0wM/P4252509.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RQjrfNZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/MkfYZb4/P4252510.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N2r8tXP)
A couple of pics using the double cut and single cut tools.
(https://i.ibb.co/Ch3FKfb/P4242502.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jgPFkSy)
(https://i.ibb.co/BrgxyQH/P4252511.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VQvZgz0)
Thanks for looking, Curtis
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Had a little shop time today, made some progress. Getting close to finished with the checks on one side!
(https://i.ibb.co/ckRkd8M/P4292512.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rFqFJpT)
(https://i.ibb.co/D99b3HR/P4292513.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LxxP4XZ)
Curtis
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Got all the wrist checkering cut to depth, then I marked up my border layout.
(https://i.ibb.co/j8qdgvv/P5032514.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mRdm6CC)
(https://i.ibb.co/WFTVYCS/P5032515.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MpXB3dq)
(https://i.ibb.co/nbpmMHP/P5032516.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y3gQBz0)
Next I used an 18th century style checkering tool I made a couple years ago to mark layout lines. The tool cuts lines at about 9 lpi, or twice the 18 lpi the gun is checkered with.
(https://i.ibb.co/d5D52bQ/P5032517.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6WFWPv4)
(https://i.ibb.co/5nfSVq9/P5032518.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3MLjHts)
I then used some pinstripe tape as a guide to extend out the lines, and cut them with a 60 deg cutter:
(https://i.ibb.co/3YNfSTW/P5032519.jpg) (https://ibb.co/przW41Z)
Made a rough 80 deg "float" to rapidly cut the border lines to depth.
(https://i.ibb.co/frRqrZG/P5032521.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2c2WcRY)
(https://i.ibb.co/QY5nLvH/P5032523.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XFwp1x5)
I chased the borderlines with a smoother 80 deg tool, then switched to my mullering tool. "Hey Ma, look at me, I'm mullering! ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/WsCcHDh/P5032520.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CWLnwJc)
Had just enough time to cut a small amount to provide "proof of concept", looks like the tool will dork out well.
(https://i.ibb.co/TtZB3Mz/P5032524.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fHbYwdm)
(https://i.ibb.co/XLnbGGT/P5032525.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qjHd22w)
More in a few days, thanks for looking.
Curtis
-
Can you show us your mullering tool - or did I miss it in the plethora of remarks? Never came upon the term before.
-
Curtis - THAT is special - very nice indeed. ;D
-
Can you show us your mullering tool - or did I miss it in the plethora of remarks? Never came upon the term before.
Craig, Curtis shows how he makes the mullering tool in Reply #196.
Mike
-
Thanks, Mike - sure appreciate that.
Curtis is getting to make a lot of nifty tools. And I am probably going to run out of O-1 drill rod and W-1 rectangular!
Got my metal checkering file today, so I can practice before checkering those hammers.
-
Can you show us your mullering tool - or did I miss it in the plethora of remarks? Never came upon the term before.
Craig, Curtis shows how he makes the mullering tool in Reply #196.
Mike
Craig, Mike is correct, and here is a direct link to post #196: https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=55149.msg597328#msg597328 (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=55149.msg597328#msg597328)
Basically I just made an ovoid, bi-directional cutting float. My first and only previous checkering job I did the mullered border using a gouge, a file and sandpaper wrapped around a dowel. So far the tool is much easier and faster to work with, though I will probably have to use something else to finish out the ends and angled intersections of border.
Curtis
-
Sorry Craig, I was apparently writing the previous post while you were posting! ::)
Curtis
-
Not a problem, Curtis. I was chuckling about you and those "mitered" corners! I think that is where the little gouges come into play.
Truly enjoying your project. Day-dreaming about how it is going to shoot with those PP bullets. You are probably going to revert a bit, and wrap a canvas patch around them.
-
Craig, I am certainly looking forward to shooting it! Hope I can hit the barn....
I worked some more on the borders today, here is what I came up with so far:
(https://i.ibb.co/SR3hkfW/P5052526.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t8J70Lk)
(https://i.ibb.co/yPgX1sB/P5052530.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DWwtyKg)
(https://i.ibb.co/mtX0qbF/P5052527.jpg) (https://ibb.co/82db5N4)
(https://i.ibb.co/b2BW4tM/P5052528.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qWsyH63)
(https://i.ibb.co/tKvFhmH/P5052529.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xLBdsC2)
Westbj2 had sent me some images of original period checkering, below is a particularly good example:
(https://i.ibb.co/xfPWWn5/IMG-1234.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GtByyZP)
Upon close examination it appeared to me that there was a tiny flat line in the valleys between the rows of checks. Jim agreed, and thought perhaps resulted from using a burnishing tool. It could also be caused by the shape of the checkering tool used. I decided to use a flat bottom checkering tool, made .015 wide - I think it helped make the checkering look more like the original in the photo.
(https://i.ibb.co/SNPLs20/P5052531.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mJGxDmt)
(https://i.ibb.co/kyC0L4w/P5052532.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pPFZHfM)
(https://i.ibb.co/VHpy9zg/P5052533.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mvFsT29)
(https://i.ibb.co/0JDFkHs/P5052534.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ysfYDH4)
(https://i.ibb.co/WFKrgVd/P5052535.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XpJnSYd)
(https://i.ibb.co/S0R0GRD/P5052537.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2PgPHg0)
Thanks for looking,
Curtis
-
Curtis,
That’s wonderful work!
I can’t carve 2 parallel lines, not to mention 10 curving parallel lines!
This site humbles me to no end.
Back to the single malt whiskey it is!
Norm.
-
Curtis
How many lines per inch did you go with?
Also, your bullets are in the mail.
Fleener
-
Whooooo- Hoooooo, Curtis! I believe that you've nailed it. Both the checkering and the border look excellent, and I know all the pains-taking work that went into it. Brush in some finishing oil and you're done!
So, now you are an expert, and we are looking forward to skip-line checkering, and a basket-weave design. Wouldn't wish the latter on any man, woman, or child, but there are work-a-holics out there who indulge themselves.
-
The flat top checkering is well done Curtis. Good job!!
-
Thanks guys! Norm, I'll take a shot of that single malt now please.... 8)
Curtis
How many lines per inch did you go with?
Also, your bullets are in the mail.
Fleener
Art, 18 lpi. I you would read the text and not just look at the pictures you would know that! 8) And thanks for sending the bullets, you are a good man.
Curtis
-
Put a light coat of LMF sealer (with a few drops of LMF maple stain in it) on to seal it, then hit it repeatedly with a toothbrush after it soaked in a bit. I can see a couple of spots on the borders that need a bit of touch up now that is has a bit of shine to it. Next I will be moving on to the forestock.....
(https://i.ibb.co/FKtgbBq/P5062538.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPnzgrR)
(https://i.ibb.co/VHSvMbK/P5062539.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N1jLWf4)
(https://i.ibb.co/CmZLcFJ/P5062540.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mbwpj7v)
(https://i.ibb.co/6sXvCGw/P5062541.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SvfQCHy)
(https://i.ibb.co/YWZ040G/P5062542.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3szR5RH)
Curtis
-
Nicely done, Curtis, very nicely done.
-
Absolutely Beautiful - Well done - Way above my pay grade....
-
Wow! That finish brought it to life. Very nice work.
-
Thanks fellers. Kingsbury - I'm pretty sure its above my pay grade as well! Takes me a week to do what someone who knows what the are doing can do in an afternoon!
Curtis
-
Layin' down some more lines..... Getting a little faster at it, but not much. ::)
(https://i.ibb.co/LRyGN3f/P5072544.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F31PHFt)
(https://i.ibb.co/YQzCsGb/P5082545.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6w3MC5N)
(https://i.ibb.co/6gZG3H6/P5082548.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bz3YSsp)
Curtis
-
Had some more shop time this week, made good progress on the forestock. I still have a little more work to do on the borders, as well as some cleanup.
Using an 18th century style checkering tool:
(https://i.ibb.co/X4BZZbr/P5132549.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pPDvvxB)
(https://i.ibb.co/Y7k8kLP/P5132550.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0jMZMGm)
(https://i.ibb.co/qMZspyx/P5162551.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Gvh2RxF)
(https://i.ibb.co/XYmvxjB/P5162552.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z2ykzGs)
After the checkering was finished I ran the flat-bottom tool in all the grooves. It is a pain to go over all those lines again, but in my opinion it really makes the checkering look more period, and makes the checks look taller.
(https://i.ibb.co/DgyrB5x/P5172553.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zHY63Gy)
(https://i.ibb.co/hZKKydq/P5172554.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9VqqN4M)
Made a new mullering tool and modified one previously made to get into the corners of the borders better.
(https://i.ibb.co/pz5fV1m/P5192557.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T8d4jwC)
(https://i.ibb.co/bW64S9Z/P5192558.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6nyK3Cx)
(https://i.ibb.co/8YVNcwd/P5192559.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3RH4zbM)
What I have so far:
(https://i.ibb.co/cyMtZzs/P5192560.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2FmPCXp)
(https://i.ibb.co/6YWBnhC/P5192561.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dB5gW9Y)
When I finish up the forestock I will go back and do a little more work on the pistol grip borders.
Curtis
-
Outstanding craftsmanship from an incredibly talented craftsman that
makes me wish I had put more effort into wood working.
Bob Roller
-
I have checkered a lot of guns, and all can say is fantastic work. And making your on tools only makes it so much better.
-
That is REALLY nice work, Curtis.
-
Curtis,
Just checking out the progress.
First class all the way!
Jeff
-
Thanks guys for all the good words! This checkering thing is a lot of tedious work for certain. Really changes how the rifle looks though!
I have checkered a lot of guns, and all can say is fantastic work. And making your on tools only makes it so much better.
Thanks again, flintlock hunter. One thing I can add about making your own tools - I couldn't help but notice that my shop made tools stayed sharp much, much longer than any of the commercial tools I used in the process. I think it might be worthwhile to experiment with annealing, re-harden and heat treating commercial tools before using them.
I found I could resharpen the commercial tools (I have a mix of Dembart and Gunline tools) using a diamond sharpener, but had to do it numerous times during layout etc. I only sharpened my main shop-made checkering tool once while cutting the forearm checks.
Curtis
-
Go to the head of the class!
CheersRichard
-
Outstanding craftsmanship from an incredibly talented craftsman that
makes me wish I had put more effort into wood working.
Bob Roller
It's hard to be an expert on everything, Bob. We are all glad you chose a field and excelled in it!!
Curtis
-
Curtis
how do you carry your lines across where the escutcheons were?
Fleener
-
I had never heard of "mullering." Now I see it's a method to hide the over-runs from your poor tool control. :P
Now I'll have to make me one.
-
I had never heard of "mullering." Now I see it's a method to hide the over-runs from your poor tool control. :P
Now I'll have to make me one.
See how smart those guys were in the old days! It's like having a "wood bungle eraser"! 8)
Curtis
-
Curtis
how do you carry your lines across where the escutcheons were?
Fleener
Art, it is much like jumping from one creek bank to the other. First you back the checkering tool up a couple inches to get a good run at it, then push it forward as fast as you can to "jump the ditch" to the other side. Just messing with 'ya! ;D
Not sure how a properly educated checkerer would do it, but I used a double cut tool to lay out the first line over the void much like shown below:
(https://i.ibb.co/8jv2yH8/P5212562.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vJymNSz)
(https://i.ibb.co/Zc8R2sD/P5212563.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6DPcXhC)
(https://i.ibb.co/kJyxQTd/P5212564.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zF5rGgk)
Logic would tell you that once you have one line over the void, you could continue to work from that with each new line in a similar fashion. However, for me at least in practice it produced a slight curve in the line that got worse with each consecutive line. In order to prevent that from happening, I then marked out the entry point on the opposite side using a checkering guide, one line at a time:
(https://i.ibb.co/KFBg1BY/P5212566.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HnRyJR0)
Once the proper re-entry point was established, a piece of pinstripe tape (or masking tape) was used to carry the proper alignment across and a layout line cut with a 600 tool, along the edge of the tape for a short distance. Once the layout lines were properly established I used a double cut tool to complete the line.
(https://i.ibb.co/b3sWRcW/P5212567.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8BrK41K)
I have seen the escutcheons outlined with a mullered border (TOF, you now know what that is :) ) but that is just taking the easy way out! ;)
Examples:
(https://i.ibb.co/GHyYV15/Alexander-Henry-Target-Rifle-Belonging-to-Col-Frederick-Trench-Gascoi-101016043-19081-5-F6198-F50-F1-FD6-C3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fDf6CKx)
(https://i.ibb.co/8ByYs6h/canvas2.png) (https://ibb.co/ZJQ2XWZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/933H02h/Screenshot-2019-06-12-Monty-Whitley-Inc-ALEXANDER-HENRY-BEST-QUALITY-LONG-RANGE-MATCH-RIFLE-IN-IT-S-ORIGINAL-CASE-5.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
I'd be happy to try and answer any other question you might have, or try to explain that one better.
Curtis
-
After finishing the forestock, I returned to the pistol grip area and re-worked the borders to match what I did on the forestock. I didn't quite get the results I was after on the borders, but felt I was rapidly leaving the realm of minor improvements and about to enter the land of unrecoverable errors - so I quit while I was ahead. ;) I then made a burnishing tool and burnished the mullered borders.
The next step was to add some patina to the checkered zones and borders to help achieve a more "period" look. I was given the idea by a friend and got the lowdown on how to do it from westbj2. I used a linseed oil and LMF sealer blend, mixed with a healthy dose of Kibler bone black applied with an artist brush, then worked it over with a couple of different toothbrushes. When I had an area that was resistant to taking a good darkening I dipped the toothbrush into some boneblack and applied it directly to the oil dampened area. Here are a few photos of the process:
(https://i.ibb.co/whkqvWN/P5232568.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v4FWtPx)
(https://i.ibb.co/kJmV4XM/P5232569.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BGnHyBw)
(https://i.ibb.co/Bqpwspt/P5232570.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WghsKh6)
(https://i.ibb.co/9TNBPD6/P5242577.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MVsKdvr)
And here are the results:
(https://i.ibb.co/vvhbXys/P5252585.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yBpD4vh)
(https://i.ibb.co/6syNPk7/P5252587.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3hTkNn9)
(https://i.ibb.co/yYsZxSh/P5252588.jpg) (https://ibb.co/61sTqBv)
(https://i.ibb.co/0rBmkQY/P5252589.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TtKYZrP)
(https://i.ibb.co/kXDM24g/P5252593.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SBmJwtX)
Photos of an original for comparison:
(https://i.ibb.co/GF7P83d/0004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g6ygfFr)
(https://i.ibb.co/BrJ2x4X/0001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yYCF1hw)
Thanks for looking,
Curtis
-
Wow!
Nice!
Norm
-
Curtis, you have knocked it out of the park! Great job!
-
Outstanding craftsmanship from an incredibly talented craftsman that
makes me wish I had put more effort into wood working.
Bob Roller
It's hard to be an expert on everything, Bob. We are all glad you chose a field and excelled in it!!
Curtis
I can take all those parts and make the best $40 rifle ever made.I have thought about
making a few more 3 or 4 pin locks but when I think of the time and work involved in
such a lock I get tired and put it out of my mind.
Bob Roller
-
Thanks Norm and Homerifle! Homerifle, I enjoyed seeing you at the CLA show and getting to look at and handle some of your creations!
Curtis
-
Photos of an original for comparison:
(https://i.ibb.co/GF7P83d/0004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g6ygfFr)
(https://i.ibb.co/BrJ2x4X/0001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yYCF1hw)
Thanks for looking,
Curtis
That is a beautiful rifle. Yours will be too. Looking forward to the finished pictures, Curtis.
-
Thanks Norm and Homerifle! Homerifle, I enjoyed seeing you at the CLA show and getting to look at and handle some of your creations!
It was good seeing you as well. I hope the show will still be on this fall. I'm looking forward to going.
-
I hope the show is on this fall too, there have been way to many things canceled already this year.
Got the rifle assembled again, I plan on doing a little shooting with it before I get around to engraving and finishing the metal.
(https://i.ibb.co/P1DR5g2/P5272597.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yg4D8qz)
(https://i.ibb.co/h1G8ZJX/P5272598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z1QTYpH)
Curtis
-
Wow Curtis! You did a fantastic job on it. I'm a bit intimidated to build one now. I think building the gun would go okay, but I've never even picked up a checkering tool, much less made my own special ones.
-
Lovely, Curtis. Oh WOW!
-
Thats a really beautiful rifle!
Best regards
Rolf
-
Curtis,
Who made the tang sight? I remember Don Brown had Mike Neumann in South Africa
make some.I used to get frequent E mail from Mike bit haven't heard from him for a long time
and wonder about his safety over there.
Bob Roller
-
Thanks for the comments fellas! They really mean a great deal.
Justin, I'm sure if you put your mind to it you will do an excellent job of building one of these. Have you gotten your lathe fixed? I would like to see if you could make me a bore protector if you do.
Curtis,
Who made the tang sight? I remember Don Brown had Mike Neumann in South Africa
make some.I used to get frequent E mail from Mike bit haven't heard from him for a long time
and wonder about his safety over there.
Bob Roller
Bob, I think Rod told me who made the sights I have a year ago when I purchased them... I don't recall the name. I seem to remember it was a husband a wife team from South Africa so it could be Mike Neumann. We talked about several sights though so I am not certain.
Curtis
-
Bob, I was looking at my tang sight today, and it has the letters "MN" stamped on it, so there is a good chance that the sights were made by Mike Nuemann.
Curtis
-
Bob, I was looking at my tang sight today, and it has the letters "MN" stamped on it, so there is a good chance that the sights were made by Mike Nuemann.
Curtis
Snapper can probably add more insight into Nuemann's sights. I think he made a set for his original Rigby. Nuemann is about the only one who makes them identical to the originals.
-
I think that is just a beautiful rifle. One thing to consider... I think a little red tinted oil would help out a lot with the color. Especially when compared to the original shown. It looks nice how it is, but wonder if it would look just a bit better with this.
All the best,
Jim
-
Hello Jim! and thanks. The rifle actually looks a bit redder in person than what is showing in the photos, when I get some good outdoor pics taken hopefully I can capture the true color. I added several drops of LMF maple and LMF cherry stain to each coat of my LMF sealer when I applied it, and also in the Antique Oil I used for the topcoat. I wanted to try out some Alkanet oil I have but was looking to get a hard finish in the wood as it was a bit soft - I have found in the past that LMF sealer penetrates deep and helps harden the wood a bit.
I have done some experimenting with rubbing a micro-thin coat of the alkanet oil over an existing finish, and it provides a nice sheen. I will likely try it on this gun when it can sit a while without being handled much.
Curtis
-
A little "French Red" from Brownells rubbed in as a filler before you begin finishing the wood gives a pleasing color to American walnut. I think this is what Winchester used to use on their stocks many years ago. I've used it on both English and American walnut. A little too late now for this rifle but latter on maybe.
-
Thanks for the info Clowdis.
Curtis
-
I spoke on the phone with Rod this evening about some concerns that had been voiced on another forum pertaining to color casing his lock plates, and he sent me the email quoted below. I thought he did a wonderfully informational job describing the evolution of, and future plans for his lock plate materials in the note, and he asked if I could share it here. It also shows how concerned Rod is about customer satisfaction. Here is what he wrote:
"Curtis, if I may add to the lock plate conversation. In the past lock plates have been made in my shop with 0-1, A-2, hot roll, 8620, 4140, and some where just were soft steel. Don't know how many got cased, but no one has complained of color case hardening issues. When I decided to go with a cnc machined plate some research found that some modern gun companies were using 4140. Being a tool maker that was right down my alley. So I've had two runs with the 4140. These were plates sent out to gunsmiths, builders and companies that do color case hardening for trials.
Tom Snyder is one of those a plate was sent to.
The color of his casing was very original looking and it was partially due to a lower temperature which is another benefit. I have always had great respect for Tom and his work. It took awhile , but Tom not only cased the plate but did much research in which I appreciate greatly on the matter. So, the next run on plates will be done with 8620 that also has properties that produce good colors.
As for the plates done in 4140 out there. As stated before there is proof it can be done but also proof it can warp. I am sure my 4140 plate is not the only plate that has warped in the gun world. Just to be on the safe side I will be in contact with all that have acquired locks & kits to see if they have had any issue with warping or are anticipating color casing.
Thank you Curtis for this chance to bring up issues and resolve them. In the little time I get to read your blog there seems to be many others bringing out great info on these British rifle. Thank you also Tom Snyder for the time you put in on this project.
Respectfully R. England"
Thanks for looking! Curtis
-
There have been requests to me by phone calls about making locks again.
At this point in time I have no plans to make any locks of any style and
the market seems to be adequately covered without any help from me.
A few triggers every month is all I want to do and that's it.
Bob Roller
-
Front sight is adjustable for windage. Windage on the front was more common then windage on the rear for that era rifle. Windage on the rear is much easier then the front. Once you lay down it is not easy making a windage change. I prefer it on the rear
Fleener
I have participated in matches in which I needed the combined windage adjustment of both the front and back sights at 1000 yards ;D
-
Yeeehowdy Curtis. That is some beautiful checkering. My dad did checkering before arthritis got his hands, so I know good work when I see it. Spectacular. You may see errors, but I don't.
The way you added the finish with a toothbrush is just how Dad did it. He said a little bit goes a long way, and scrub it in with a brush so it doesn't glop up and fill your checkering.
My sincere compliments on lovely work.
God Bless, Marc
-
Thanks, Marc! I appreciate your kind comments. I have to agree with your dad, a little goes a long way, and if the finish is too thick a little thinning is advised before applying.
Curtis
-
Started in on the engraving - my engraving is not the best but looks better from across the room! 8) Still trying to get the hang of the English scrolls. Some of the pics aren't the best but this is what I have so far, haven't engraved any screws yet but will address that soon. Every time I look at the engraving I see something to tweak or add, so it is a work in progress.
(https://i.ibb.co/rHqxcPB/P7262611.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2dRvs2z)
(https://i.ibb.co/n8zZTj5/P7292620.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YTpY6hq)
(https://i.ibb.co/HdKWXbZ/P7302622.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9tpFG1P)
(https://i.ibb.co/LkRr00c/P7302626.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1vQM00P)
(https://i.ibb.co/d6s647P/P7302628.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XpfpxV7)
(https://i.ibb.co/YbsVKdC/P7312635.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3kZP8F3)
(https://i.ibb.co/cr3FcBv/P7312636.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x7LjSks)
Thanks for looking,
Curtis
-
Dang, thats beautiful!!!
Best regards
Rolf
-
Those inlays for the wedges are great, as are the "English" scrolls. Are you tapping the graver or just pushing it.
My engraving sucks, to put it simply. Hard to even make a straight line!
-
Looks beautiful Curtis!
-
Beautifully executed, Curtis.
-
Thank you gentlemen for your comments! You are all too kind. I still have a lot to learn about engraving, and with each rifle I learn a bit more.
Jim, that engraving class I took from you several years ago has helped me a great deal, especially learning how to sharpen a graver!
Craig - I am chasing with a hammer for most all of it, and pushing a few of the smaller shade lines. I have a graver mounted in a small brass antique door knob I use for that.
Curtis
-
Working on a screw:
(https://i.ibb.co/SRytVhy/P8012646.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0h2CYg2)
(https://i.ibb.co/hfmbCXS/P8012649.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fvxfQ8s)
(https://i.ibb.co/YbpsQ4v/P8012650.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HXn84Lm)
Curtis
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Curtis, those engraved escutcheons against the fine-line checkering are simply jewel-like. Absolute eye candy. Thank you for sharing.
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Your comments are greatly appreciated, Marc!
I originally engraved my grip cap with a sunburst design:
(https://i.ibb.co/h8kxSYr/P8032656.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s3hpZWc)
Then I engraved the screw and it broke on me when I was tightening it down. Got a new screw from Rod, and decided that the grip cap engraving might not flow well with the rest of the rifle, so I filed it all off and came up with a different design.
(https://i.ibb.co/jLzv1Ry/P9202719.jpg) (https://ibb.co/648RfBH)
(https://i.ibb.co/tph9XGs/P9202722.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZzJ0mj8)
Then I started to work on the lock plate and the cock. Found the compound curves on the cock to be a bit challenging:
(https://i.ibb.co/B6HYFLf/P8092663.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3F5PQ1T)
(https://i.ibb.co/r66pWW7/P8092664.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G22Mhhx)
(https://i.ibb.co/3vb2wM3/P8282676.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bFVTx20)
(https://i.ibb.co/LJZLFsK/P8292680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xf7pkrZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/tQpqmH6/P9222731.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wBhS0dq)
(https://i.ibb.co/rdXn5KW/P9222736.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3RPtS5J)
Having some internet issues tonight so that's it for now.
Thanks for looking!
Curtis
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Perfect you have got this figured out
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Beautiful, professional work. Very impressive.
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Oh wow - that hammer and lock plate! Well, all of it, Curtis. You've set the bar so high.
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Really tasty stuff Curtis. Your rifle will be exquisite.
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Curtis, the engraving is every bit on par with the rest of the gun, and its all first class.
Great effort!
Jeff
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Wow! What a outstanding job!!!
John
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So glad the rules were relaxed to allow this build to be posted.
Thanks Dennis. ;D ;D
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So glad the rules were relaxed to allow this build to be posted.
Thanks Dennis. ;D ;D
This is a level of craftsmanship that MUST be seen.This type of rifle drew the muzzle loader to
a conclusion and equals or surpasses the fine caplock rifles of the American Northeast
Bob Roller
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Well, all I can say is thank for your remarks gentlemen! As I mentioned before this style of engraving is new to me... I so far have not been able to capture the level of shading I would like to achieve, I am limited by both my skill level and my equipment. Alas, I am probably my own worst critic - but I guess if one doesn't feel challenged by things beyond their level it probably hampers a person's ability to improve in the future. That being said I am generally happy with what I have so far, but will continue to refine it a bit more as I go along - if I think I can improve what I have without messing it up. ::)
Curtis
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Next I moved on to engrave the standing breech and tang, here are a couple of photos of where I'm at:
(https://i.ibb.co/NFNdGWV/P9222727.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dfpwHkW)
(https://i.ibb.co/0nnjSqX/P9222729.jpg) (https://ibb.co/grrMpy7)
The tang screw slot is quite narrow and deep so I filed a large screw driver to fit:
(https://i.ibb.co/Yj9J2z5/P9222723.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j4KqhcC)
(https://i.ibb.co/LRHkxbG/P9222724.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xLdC1P4)
Curtis
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Curtis, that is some really fine work. The “cool” factor is off the scale.
Cheers Richard
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Thanks Richard! This way I won't have to shoot a "boring" gun at the range! ;D
Curtis
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Thanks Richard! This way I won't have to shoot a "boring" gun at the range! ;D
Curtis
If it shoots 1/10th as good as it looks you will be a pariah among your peers ;D.
Bob Roller
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Curtis thats outstanding work ! LP
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Wholly Moses, that work is incredible!
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The water is running out of my mouth.
And your engraving!
It's a treasure to own this rifle.
Adrie.
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Many thanks, guys! I will post more when I get the chance to work on the barrel breech and the butt plate.
Curtis
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Cool! looking forward to it, Curtis.
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I had a mishap with my barrel which took a tumble from my vice, you can read the post about it here if you haven't already: https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=62199.0 (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=62199.0)
After all that fun I finally got back to engraving, here are a couple of buttplate photos:
(https://i.ibb.co/tw6tLNF/PA042803.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZRrP2w7)
(https://i.ibb.co/GTP7XnQ/PA042805.jpg) (https://ibb.co/74yvHjt)
And some border work on the breech:
(https://i.ibb.co/vvpf3f0/PA042810.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QjLhPhy)
(https://i.ibb.co/pvT8gK0/PA052814.jpg) (https://ibb.co/27rQwMn)
Thanks for looking,
Curtis
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Finished up a bit more engraving on the breech plug today. Posting a few photos:
(https://i.ibb.co/djf2XkJ/PA102818.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0mnM1YV)
(https://i.ibb.co/C76FXKB/PA102819.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fp97KdM)
(https://i.ibb.co/TvnJwgM/PA102820.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dW3Xf54)
(https://i.ibb.co/p2t6dbc/PA102824.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q927MpL)
(https://i.ibb.co/TgSMhW4/PA102829.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NyP2YT9)
(https://i.ibb.co/LJbLsPt/PA102830.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Y960fT)
Thanks for looking,
Curtis
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That is just sooo special. It's eye candy for sure. :)
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Two thumbs up Curtis cause that’s all the thumbs I have.
Cheers Richard
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Superb.
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Outstanding in every respect!
So when you get it finished, you gonna shoot it?
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Thanks guys! I see a few things I should have done differently but it's too late now.
JTR - Yep, that is the whole idea. I hope to shoot this thing a LOT! :)
Curtis
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I hope to shoot this thing a LOT! :)
Curtis
I hope you do!
After watching over your shoulder, so to say, as you build it, I can't imagine you not having a long line of guys wanting one just like it!
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(https://i.ibb.co/hyNBj3j/Rigby5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/drvPq8q)
This is a picture of my Rigby built in 1864. It is unusual for a Rigby as it is highly engraved. I have never seen a Griffin on a rifle before and found it very unique and really like it. I had a similar one engraved on a replica Alex Henry long range ML like the one Curtis is building.
The Griffin is a legendary creature with the body, tail, and back legs of a lion; the head and wings of an eagle; and sometimes an eagle's talons as its front feet. Because the lion was traditionally considered the king of the beasts, and the eagle the king of the birds, by the Middle Ages, the griffin was thought to be an especially powerful and majestic creature. Since classical antiquity, griffins were known for guarding treasures and priceless possessions.
I think it is great that Curtis added one to guard his new priceless possession.
If he is able to shoot his gun as half as good as it looks, I think I am in trouble!
Fleener
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Curtis, your work is simply outstanding.
Dan
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Thanks guys!
I hope the Griffin guard the rifle well too, Art! On a side note, I found a drawing similar to the Griffin on your Rigby, probably came from an old book. I wanted to use it but it didn't fit the flat of my breech very well. I wish my griffin would have turned out a little better, but that was some tiny engraving for the magnification of my optivisor!
(https://i.ibb.co/wwyq02m/griffina.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Thanks guys!
I hope the Griffin guard the rifle well too, Art! On a side note, I found a drawing similar to the Griffin on your Rigby, probably came from an old book. I wanted to use it but it didn't fit the flat of my breech very well. I wish my griffin would have turned out a little better, but that was some tiny engraving for the magnification of my optivisor!
(https://i.ibb.co/wwyq02m/griffina.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
One of my old friends had a wife that looked like that after the first 20 years. ;D
Bob Roller
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Brings new meaning to the term "hen-pecked"! Yeouch!
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Bob Roller, you crack me up.
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One of my old friends had a wife that looked like that after the first 20 years.
Bob,
You're confusing a griffin with a harpy.
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One of my old friends had a wife that looked like that after the first 20 years.
Bob,
You're confusing a griffin with a harpy.
T*O*F,
You may be right but I think they may be related.
Bob Roller
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Curtis
Are you sure you weren't a gunsmith and engraver in a previous life your work is absolutely beautiful
Keep up the good work
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holy smokes, Curtis. You really made these parts shine. I'm trying to decide between the sporting or match barrels from Rod, and I'll order my parts eventually. I haven't checkered before, and my limited engraving skills makes this project a bit intimidating. I'm excited for when you start shooting it.
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Photos of the finished rifle can be seen here: https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=73268.0 (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=73268.0)
Curtis