AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: rjpalmer on July 23, 2019, 10:13:40 AM
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I need to deepen and widen the notch in my rear sight to make it easier to see my front sight. Is there any preference for a V, U or square notch? I ‘m not sure which would be best. Anyone have a preference and suggestions about how to do the job. Thanks
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I widened my rear sights and made them square and have been happy with them.
Mike
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What does the front sight look like..???
A post-and-dot front sight would likely work best with a V-notch rear. OTOH...a wide Patridge style front blade would call for a square notch. Width of the rear is a personal choice thing. A lot depends upon the eyesight of the shooter. Some folks like the front blade to fill the rear, others like to see a lot of space, some like just a wee-little space on either side of the front blade.
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look up Herbs sight
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=51483.msg511904#msg511904
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Some of us have found an English Express-type wide V rear sight does well with aging eye's, when used with a bead front sight. Others use this wide V with a blade, having a 45 degree polished angle on the rear of the blade. In the bush, this shiny blade gives a similar appearance to a bead.
Others like a small U notch with blade or bead.
If in bright sunlight, the shiny bead or blade can be instantly dulled, with the use of a black dry-erase felt pen. This dull black can be instantly removed with the wipe of a thumb or finger.
(https://i.ibb.co/25hP6yR/sportingrifle019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g69w73Q)
(https://i.ibb.co/nj8cc9x/Express-sight-picure.png) (https://ibb.co/vkvPPp0)
(https://i.ibb.co/QJyf0YS/PC092277.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wd5RtpG)
(https://i.ibb.co/R3kYCmF/P4291715.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jyPbL2N)
(https://i.ibb.co/s3fpPs6/P4291716.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dKTsckL)
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I have practically every type of 'notch' imaginable on my rifles and pistols, and they all work just fine. What you need is a sight that you can tell when the front sight is LEVEL with the top of the rear one. A sight notch that is too small will fuzz this out and you will make elevation errors when shooting. This too has much to do with your vision. For folks with bad eyes, I have often used an absolutely flat topped rear sight with a vertical gold band down the middle and no notch at all. This rear sight slopes forward, rather than rearward, to catch light and illuminate the gold band. The front matching sight in that case, is a post with a 45 degree filed to the tip which catches light, and to the eye, looks like a round bead. Now it is simply a matter of putting the 'pumpkin on the post, ie: the bead on the top of the gold band. I encourage shooters to hold the bead where they want the ball to go..centre shot, no six o'clock hold stuff. How do you hold six o'clock on a tack or horizontal string?
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I do about the same as Mike except sometimes I use a rat-tail file that forms a "U". I like my sight notches a little wider than I use to and don't worry about the the bottom, only the width. The idea of ordering a "V" rear and "ball" front is on my list of chores.
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Put me squarely in the Daryl's Express Sights camp for sight preference for hunting guns.
Targets-could be different, but I have no dedicated target guns so I'll hushup now.
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Thanks for the information. For the time being I’m going to widen the notch in the rear sight so I can see on either side of the rectangular post front sight. In the mean time I’m going to look for a bead front sight and rear sight with a “V” and give that a try.
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I like different sights for different chores. For a fast highly visible hunting setup I like the British V with a bright bead. For targets I like a wide flat topped rear with a square notch and a steel post front. That means that I have to have at least two different rifles. :)
JS
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I have found a partridge sight with a wide notch works well, by wide around 1/8 inch. For a hunting rifle I am leaning toward a express sight.
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Lately with my failing vision. I like a patridge front sight and peep rear for hunting.
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(https://i.ibb.co/NZYHB7L/DSC02922.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5BcfH25)
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For NMLRA competition you need to:
5010–OPEN FRONT SIGHT–May be a blade, pin-head, post or barleycorn.
5020–OPEN REAR SIGHT–All rear open sights must be at least six inches forward
of the breech end of the barrel or as placed by the commercial manufacturer. They
must have a U, V, or rectangular opening, as wide at the top as any part of the notch.
So I use a "U" opening consisting of a slit 0.025" wide and about 0.050" deep, 6" from the breech plug. I usually end up inleting a piece of hack saw blade in the rear sight. That is slit with a dremil cut off wheel run in the milling machine. The front sight blade is about 0.10" on a 42" barrel. For me this set up leaves a window of light on either side of the post. Elevation is level across the top of the rear. The wide front sight is easier to see.
V-notches and barley corn fronts are light sensitive for elevation. I can not see a pin head clearly. Trial and error lead me to the above. I am in the late 50s, and wear glasses for astigmatism, and have early cataracts.
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Other designs that work for some people.
(https://i.ibb.co/r2BjWrf/Buckhorn-Aperturesight.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CKjcrGs)
(https://i.ibb.co/80DJ2dP/Aperturerearsight2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mGCmtXh)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kbj2XWq/Smith-Ladder-Buckhorn-Sight.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/894pRQr/4-leaf-express-sight.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yqB1Mx6)
(https://i.ibb.co/Bq1sCPS/Express-Front-Sight.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xJ457sR)
(https://i.ibb.co/9TqG9Zg/P4291719.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1q9bfzQ)
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Mentioning the use of a piece of hacksaw blade on the rear sight, reminded me of a 'fix' that I often use when I want to change a real sight notch.
I use some very thin steel stock, such as a thin banding steel, soldering a section of that across the back of a rear sight, so that when I re-cut a notch, it is super thin and reduces the amount of paralex (sp?). In other words, because the notch is so thin, light doesn't bounce all over the notch, making it fuzzy. Files cut it easily.
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Here's another Herb sight build :
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14366.msg135186#msg135186
or this one
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=33555.msg321860#msg321860
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On the smoothbore the notch was opened to .185" to accomodate a set of old eyes, and it seems to do the trick. Nothing else in the stable is that open but the process of opening them bit by bit is underway. I think, maybe, a peep could be in my future.
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If you wanted to make a square rear sight a little wider what kind of file would you recommend
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I use a thin flat needle file with three safe sides to open up those sight notches>
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Thanks appreciate the help
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Depending on how much you want to increase the notch (square) you can use a hack saw blade or even clamp 2 together. Gives a nice clean opening.
Mark
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So how many times now have we been dragged through this bottomless mud hole? There’s never going to be any agreement on this. It is contingent on your area of interest. Target shooters, living history buffs, and hunters, all have different ideas of what is acceptable, and appropriate. There really isn’t much common ground, and everybody come with their own soap box.
Hungry Horse
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I've seen old timers that use a hacksaw blade to cut the rear sight notch hammer the teeth flat first for a more precise square cut.
Bob
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I have used hacksaw blades taped together for cutting notches, however, the outside curf,
I ground off to make a straighter side. The inner curf needed to be left alone so the saw
would not bind too much.
I also used this "system" of saw blades of different teeth per inch, for re-cutting the wheels
for roller derby skates.(on the lathe)
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Hopefully our friend Hungry Horse won’t read this. I do not wish to be responsible for dragging anyone through a bottomless mud hole.
When all the sawing and filing results in a bigger notch than you want🙄,
Fill the whole notch in with JB weld and start over 😀. You can easily dam it up with masking tape then put a little bit on the sight to fill the notch. In my case, the notch was too big as it came from the manufacturer for precision shooting so I filled it in, filed off the excess to square everything up and cut a small “V” that works really well with a post and dot in a Lyman Globe front .
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Hopefully our friend Hungry Horse won’t read this. I do not wish to be responsible for dragging anyone through a bottomless mud hole.
When all the sawing and filing results in a bigger notch than you want🙄,
Fill the whole notch in with JB weld and start over 😀. You can easily dam it up with masking tape then put a little bit on the sight to fill the notch. In my case, the notch was too big as it came from the manufacturer for precision shooting so I filled it in, filed off the excess to square everything up and cut a small “V” that works really well with a post and dot in a Lyman Globe front .
Hopefully our friend Hungry Horse won’t read this. I do not wish to be responsible for dragging anyone through a bottomless mud hole.
When all the sawing and filing results in a bigger notch than you want🙄,
Fill the whole notch in with JB weld and start over 😀. You can easily dam it up with masking tape then put a little bit on the sight to fill the notch. In my case, the notch was too big as it came from the manufacturer for precision shooting so I filled it in, filed off the excess to square everything up and cut a small “V” that works really well with a post and dot in a Lyman Globe front .
[/quote]
That would be a cool fix that I could have used over the years for sure. I'll bet the sun wont glare off of the JB weld at all once it is sanded either.
Bob
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I know in an earlier post I said I went to a rear peep. I installed a Lyman peep. There's little doubt that it works better than the primitive fixed sight I took off. However, I can't stand to look at it. It ruins the looks of the gun and screams at me. MODERN SIGHT!
I just took it off and the primitive sight is back on. Much better. :)
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I tried one of those square rare-earth magnets with a hole in the middle, for 3 shots using my .36 Squirrel rifle.
They all went into the original group's hole which was expected, as the range was a mere 25yards. The little
magnet was perfectly aligned for my rear and front sights. Sight alignment of course, was easier with the peep
sight than without it as the peep used with a rear notch & front blade, automatically & perfectly aligns the other
two sights.
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So many good suggestions. Could we agree that it comes down to personal preferences and hunting
conditions? For years I could not understand why sights on original flint locks were so small. The more I shot the more I could get used to them. Today I prefer a v or u rear sight notch. Keeping them as small as possible. Jerry
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I need to deepen and widen the notch in my rear sight to make it easier to see my front sight. Is there any preference for a V, U or square notch? I ‘m not sure which would be best. Anyone have a preference and suggestions about how to do the job. Thanks
THIS is the reason for this 'endless discussion'. A member asks for preference or suggestions as to sight shapes.
Personal preferences are many. We were asked what ours were. THAT is the reason for this endless discussion.
We all have our preferences. Someone posts a sight shape, someone else doesn't like that one, and THIS one works better for him.
The end result is a broad span of suggestions and preferences - exactly the reason for this thread.
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I know in an earlier post I said I went to a rear peep. I installed a Lyman peep. There's little doubt that it works better than the primitive fixed sight I took off. However, I can't stand to look at it. It ruins the looks of the gun and screams at me. MODERN SIGHT!
I just took it off and the primitive sight is back on. Much better. :)
I understand completely how Pete feels. I have done a lot of experimentation looking for something to keep me in the game when age blurred my eyesight. I've even made mounts to fit a red dot sight on a flintlock. Some of them worked real good, but I couldn't stand the way any of them looked so off they came. Not only should the rear sight actually help us to shoot well but it should be unobtrusive and please the eye.
So when age finally blurred the rear sight it was either quit or find something that would help. This is what I came up with for me. I have one on my .54 and .40 and the .54 has taken deer in the dark woodlands, while the .40 has taken Turkey Gobbler in the same woods. And my group size has shrunken dramatically.
Oh yeah. Don't count on JB Weld to not reflect light and glare in the sunlight. I countersunk the peep hole from the muzzle side and painted the entire peep sight flat black. These measures took care of the glare and now I get a clean, sharp hole.
(https://i.ibb.co/S3C6TNJ/SS850099.jpg)
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That looks perfect. If I was still hunting i'd make up something like that. There's little doubt that a peep works better.
You must have to do all your adjustments with the front sight? What's holding that peep on?
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There's a 10-32 threaded hole drilled at an angle through the tang, the angle puts the flat back of the peep and the front sight on the same plane. The peep itself has a 10-32 shaft running down the center, when sighted in a lockwasher and 10-32 locknut secures the peep in place. One full turn moves it up or down 1/32".
Windage is adjusted at the front sight. Though with the rear threaded hole drilled dead center very little front sight adjustment is needed.
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Clever.
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Over 20 some years ago I bought a 62 smooth bore that had no rear sight. I thought back then it was a disadvantage. But I learned how to shoot it correctly. Now that I am almost 50 with bifocals the missing rear sight is an advantage. The problem solved itself.
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Daryl. On my last rifle i am using a sight similar to the top one in your pics and it is working real good for me. I am using it as pictured and holding dead on not 6 o'clock ,i like it.
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Couple other guys here have tried them and like them, Shifty. I will be taking mine to Hefley this year.
Leaving on Wed. coming, I think, Thursday at the latest.
Last time I tried my squirrel rifle, I was dissatisfied with the groups I was getting - it's getting harder and
harder to see the notch and front sight blade. The notch blurs up and makes the front sight difficult to see
at all, let alone centre.
That rifle also needs a wide V and bead.
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Sights as evidenced by these many posts are really a matter of opinion based on experience. First thing I do is remove the sights from any new rifle, in fact I have a box of old sights. Then install a replacement from another box of replacement sights I've collected over the years. My own preference is a fine front sight that I usually file down to thin and short. The rear sight I file so its flat on top and has thin sides and flat bottom. I have a special old screw driver that's been filed down to hammer in the sight notch to resize it. The end result is very similar to the sights on my old 03 Springfield's. Like many who report here my eyes aren't what they used to be, so I use Eye Pal stickers on my shooting glasses to sharpen up the sight picture.